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Wiggins: WNBA's 'harmful' culture of bullying, jealousy
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hyperetic



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PostPosted: 02/21/17 12:10 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sigur3 wrote:
miller40 wrote:
She complained about the WNBA's lack of attention and pay, but she's going to try beach volleyball at 30+?


And also, if no one cares about the WNBA, who is going to buy her book?


Evangelicals, he-man women hater ex-jocks, hetero females, Republicans maybe...

Wait...
We can't use the word h-a-t-e-r in here? And it autochanges it now?
MNfan22



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PostPosted: 02/21/17 12:16 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

AAOK423 wrote:
Serious question: Why did the San Diego Union-Tribune publish this? Who is Todd Leonard and why didn't he seem to get any other sources then Wiggins? ...

So why didn't Todd Leonard do more research? Talk to more WNBA players? Make sure that the person they were writing on article on was credible and not just a bitter former employee?

Well she played HS ball & gained fame in SD, he was writing about her due to some hall of fame induction? So most likely this is what she chose to speak on ... in order to bring up her book.
Story about "her experience" in the league, so who more credible to quote then the subject you're doing the story on? Lots of quotes from her so she's the one to have to answer to them.



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bryan_february_



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PostPosted: 02/21/17 12:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't like how people are assuming she's lying as if they know what's going on behind closed locker room doors. It's entirely possible that she's saying outlandish stuff to sell her book but I'm interested in hearing more about her personal experience.


sigur3



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PostPosted: 02/21/17 12:41 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

hyperetic wrote:
sigur3 wrote:
miller40 wrote:
She complained about the WNBA's lack of attention and pay, but she's going to try beach volleyball at 30+?


And also, if no one cares about the WNBA, who is going to buy her book?


Evangelicals, he-man women person with an opinion different from mine ex-jocks, hetero females, Republicans maybe...

Wait...
We can't use the word h-a-t-e-r in here? And it autochanges it now?


It's been that way for a while. I would have autocorrected it to "word used to discredit someone else's point without having any sort of argument" but I don't make the rules, I just follow them. Usually.


jmpenn90



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PostPosted: 02/21/17 12:48 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I am very sorry if she was bullied but I feel that it was very harmful to make statements like this without specifics. She claims that players were physically trying to hurt her all of the time. I highly doubt every player in the league was doing that so why say it without naming names? Does she not see that it hurts everyone that she played against even friends. And this is why you don't lump an entire group together. There are good and bad in every group. If this needed to come out she should have saved it until she was ready to give the details and then the players that bullied her could respond. That way people not involved could be left out. Question can she right about players in her book without their permission especially if it is negative?


MNfan22



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PostPosted: 02/21/17 1:07 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

bryan_february_ wrote:
I don't like how people are assuming she's lying as if they know what's going on behind closed locker room doors. It's entirely possible that she's saying outlandish stuff to sell her book but I'm interested in hearing more about her personal experience.

Well I think it was outlandish to state 98% of the league is gay and that heterosexuals (all 3 of them) are being bulled by the 98%. Many in the league are disputing that so ....
As to her experience, it is what it was and that will apparently be in her book. Whatever happened in her situation is unfortunate but is not the norm according to many players. So over the last 20yrs if there are others who experienced what she did they'll have to speak their own stories.



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Jet Jaguar



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PostPosted: 02/21/17 1:16 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

bryan_february_ wrote:
I don't like how people are assuming she's lying as if they know what's going on behind closed locker room doors. It's entirely possible that she's saying outlandish stuff to sell her book but I'm interested in hearing more about her personal experience.

If a gay player said she was bullied for being gay people would be furious and not question her; whether there were other players who experienced this or not. Since she's straight she gets dismissed as being a lier. Double standards much?



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justintyme



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PostPosted: 02/21/17 1:38 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Jet Jaguar wrote:
bryan_february_ wrote:
I don't like how people are assuming she's lying as if they know what's going on behind closed locker room doors. It's entirely possible that she's saying outlandish stuff to sell her book but I'm interested in hearing more about her personal experience.

If a gay player said she was bullied for being gay people would be furious and not question her; whether there were other players who experienced this or not. Since she's straight she gets dismissed as being a lier. Double standards much?

It's not that she was bullied that we question. That very well could be the case. It's her suggestion that she was bullied for being a heterosexual. That stretches credulity.



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willtalk



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PostPosted: 02/21/17 5:18 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Belief often clouds perception. It might be possible that she believed coming into the league that it was predominately homosexual. If she had never been exposed to lesbians before than she might have been very fearful. We fear what we do not understand. That also might have been why she acted so aggressive on court. It might have been a defense mechanism. He attitude created negative reactions from other players which fed into and justified her initial biased attitude. She probably wanted to keep other players at a distance to avoid being hit on.


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PostPosted: 02/21/17 7:29 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

willtalk wrote:
Belief often clouds perception. It might be possible that she believed coming into the league that it was predominately homosexual. If she had never been exposed to lesbians before than she might have been very fearful. We fear what we do not understand. That also might have been why she acted so aggressive on court. It might have been a defense mechanism. He attitude created negative reactions from other players which fed into and justified her initial biased attitude. She probably wanted to keep other players at a distance to avoid being hit on.


She went to Stanford. Either she's so dense that one wonders how she would have gotten into any college- let alone one with Stanford's lofty academic standards- or she's been exposed to lesbians.



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Scarab



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PostPosted: 02/21/17 7:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Former WNBA player Chantelle Anderson made a comment/post on Facebook about this: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10210980998414237&id=1032417279

Quote:
"In light of the recent article referencing quotes from a former player about the WNBA, I'll say this...

In 6 years in the league, I never saw or heard of anyone being bullied for being heterosexual.

I was NEVER asked to be more manly and less feminine. Actually, I probably had more off court opportunities because of how I looked (which is a discussion in itself for another time...the WNBA has become more progressive in their marketing than they were when I played, which is Awesome).

Though percentage wise, the league has more people who identify as homosexual than the general population, it is NOT "98% gay". That's just false. And that makes me wonder what else in the article is "exaggerated".

Of course it's competitive. It's sports. Ummm...ya.

The women of the WNBA are some of the best, strongest, most amazing people I know and I'm proud to have been a part of it.

#done #WNBA #womensbasketball #dreambig


And then she made this additional comment about the Wiggins article:

Quote:
"Ya...it was a mess...very disappointing. I just commented bc I saw people on another page just assuming it was true. I'm not gonna go in on anyone. And I have no room to judge. But I wanted to share my experience so people know it's not true. Plus, I just felt like I needed to defend the league and other players. Like what the heck. Sigh."



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Last edited by Scarab on 02/21/17 10:07 am; edited 1 time in total
Carol Anne



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PostPosted: 02/21/17 7:51 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Candice Wiggins just turned 30 on February 14 (see her Facebook page for her slutty, one-woman party). Her basketball career is done. This interview was a pathetic cry for attention.


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PostPosted: 02/21/17 7:53 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Jet Jaguar wrote:
bryan_february_ wrote:
I don't like how people are assuming she's lying as if they know what's going on behind closed locker room doors. It's entirely possible that she's saying outlandish stuff to sell her book but I'm interested in hearing more about her personal experience.

If a gay player said she was bullied for being gay people would be furious and not question her; whether there were other players who experienced this or not. Since she's straight she gets dismissed as being a lier. Double standards much?


Context.

She says 98% of players are gay. That is demonstrably untrue.

She says she was bullied for being straight, but then says they called her "b__," an epithet generally referring to behavior rather than sexual orientation.

She is "proud" of being a straight woman. Think about the people you know who like to tell folks they are proud of being White. It has been my experience that proclaiming pride in being part of being part of a majority goes hand in hand with prejudice against minority groups.

I dislike bullying, but Wiggins own words raised a ton of red flags.



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Genero36



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PostPosted: 02/21/17 8:11 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Jet Jaguar wrote:

If a gay player said she was bullied for being gay people would be furious and not question her; whether there were other players who experienced this or not. Since she's straight she gets dismissed as being a lier. Double standards much?


That's a crock of shit. She's being dismissed for her generalizations and the broad brush she's painted the league with.



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hyperetic



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PostPosted: 02/21/17 9:46 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
root_thing wrote:
Regarding there being just 3 straight players in the league, Candice's 2015 Liberty team had Cash and Warley-Talbert married to men and Kiah Stokes had a boyfriend. So, that's four just on her team alone.

Side note, I know speculation is always going to happen, and I'm not disputing anything about any particular player, but for me personally I don't think that being pregnant or being married to a man or having a boyfriend is proof that someone is straight.
(I don't think it really matters either. I just think we should be careful about what we cite as "proof" given that reality is far less black-and-white than that, people put up fronts, people can change over time, etc...)


Soooo...basically there is no way to prove, if you choose to, that you are strictly heterosexual? I mean yeah it shouldn't matter. But not making assumptions goes both ways. Sure some closeted individuals may take that route but usually if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, duck paddles like a duck, we give it the benefit of the doubt and see them as a duck, right?
Luuuc



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PostPosted: 02/21/17 10:07 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

hyperetic wrote:
Luuuc wrote:
root_thing wrote:
Regarding there being just 3 straight players in the league, Candice's 2015 Liberty team had Cash and Warley-Talbert married to men and Kiah Stokes had a boyfriend. So, that's four just on her team alone.

Side note, I know speculation is always going to happen, and I'm not disputing anything about any particular player, but for me personally I don't think that being pregnant or being married to a man or having a boyfriend is proof that someone is straight.
(I don't think it really matters either. I just think we should be careful about what we cite as "proof" given that reality is far less black-and-white than that, people put up fronts, people can change over time, etc...)


Soooo...basically there is no way to prove, if you choose to, that you are strictly heterosexual? I mean yeah it shouldn't matter. But not making assumptions goes both ways. Sure some closeted individuals may take that route but usually if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, duck paddles like a duck, we give it the benefit of the doubt and see them as a duck, right?


Not making assumptions absolutely goes both ways, yes! I'm not trying to imply otherwise. Stereotypes in both directions aren't 100% accurate. That's all I'm saying.



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stever



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PostPosted: 02/21/17 10:08 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Mo Currie weighs in, and takes the high road:

http://moniquecurrie.sportsblog.com/posts/32075247/perception-is-real--candice-wiggins--truth.html



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 02/21/17 10:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Queenie wrote:
willtalk wrote:
Belief often clouds perception. It might be possible that she believed coming into the league that it was predominately homosexual. If she had never been exposed to lesbians before than she might have been very fearful. We fear what we do not understand. That also might have been why she acted so aggressive on court. It might have been a defense mechanism. He attitude created negative reactions from other players which fed into and justified her initial biased attitude. She probably wanted to keep other players at a distance to avoid being hit on.


She went to Stanford. Either she's so dense that one wonders how she would have gotten into any college- let alone one with Stanford's lofty academic standards- or she's been exposed to lesbians.


I completely agree. The notion that Candice Wiggins may never have been exposed to lesbians before is ridiculous.



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zune69



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PostPosted: 02/21/17 10:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

stever wrote:
Mo Currie weighs in, and takes the high road:

http://moniquecurrie.sportsblog.com/posts/32075247/perception-is-real--candice-wiggins--truth.html


Good to see Currie did not trivialize Wiggins' claims of being bullied

Quote:
If Wiggins perceived her maltreatment to stem from her femininity in a league that "encouraged women to look and act like men in the NBA," if she was bullied because she was "proud to be a woman," then these feelings are real and we cannot discount what she felt. This was her perception




Last edited by zune69 on 02/21/17 11:12 am; edited 1 time in total
jap



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PostPosted: 02/21/17 10:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

stever wrote:
Mo Currie weighs in, and takes the high road:

http://moniquecurrie.sportsblog.com/posts/32075247/perception-is-real--candice-wiggins--truth.html


Nice reasonable comments by Mo.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 02/21/17 10:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jap wrote:
stever wrote:
Mo Currie weighs in, and takes the high road:

http://moniquecurrie.sportsblog.com/posts/32075247/perception-is-real--candice-wiggins--truth.html


Nice reasonable comments by Mo.


Excellent statement by Currie.



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 02/21/17 11:16 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This is very sad ... and very disappointing.

I've watched Candice Wiggins play since she was in high school, and she's always been a very good basketball player. She also played with a lot of emotion -- she wanted to win, and did what was necessary to do so.

At the same time, she incessantly complained about foul calls on her, and reports make it clear she was a big-time trash talker.

All that to say she was a very good player, but not a perfect one ...

Her father was Alan Wiggins, a major league baseball player who excelled before cocaine addiction ended his career and eventually killed him, but she went to La Jolla Country Day, a tony private school, and Stanford, an elite institution that is justifiably considered one of the best universities in the country, if not the world.

I would estimate, given her overseas earning, that Wiggins made at $2 million and likely closer to $3 million, in her professional career, and traveled around the world.

All that to say that women's basketball contributed greatly to her getting a superior education and also generated more income for her before the age of 30 than many people make in a lifetime.

And yet this is the message she chooses to deliver ...

Very sad, and very disappointing



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defenseallday



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PostPosted: 02/21/17 12:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

How long until Conservative "news " outlets pick this up & use it as an "example" of LGBT being "bullies " & "pushing themselves " on people .


She just smeared a whole group of people in the name of selling a book .


The idea that the "reasonable " response is to not " trivialize " her experience when she is clearly either delusional or more likely straight up lying is laughable .

Listening to both sides of the story does not equal everyone is entitled to spew whatever they like without backlash .


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PostPosted: 02/21/17 12:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

defenseallday wrote:
How long until Conservative "news " outlets pick this up & use it as an "example" of LGBT being "bullies " & "pushing themselves " on people .


She just smeared a whole group of people in the name of selling a book .


The idea that the "reasonable " response is to not " trivialize " her experience when she is clearly either delusional or more likely straight up lying is laughable .

Listening to both sides of the story does not equal everyone is entitled to spew whatever they like without backlash .


Yep and those Conservative outlets will never try and look at the other side of things to get a more balanced view on things. Wiggins assumptions will be taken as a blanket truth about the WNBA and lesbian women. Just terrible.


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PostPosted: 02/21/17 1:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

As many of us have feared since first reading the comments by Candice Wiggins, this is about to become a very popular story among right-wing media. I just noticed this article prominently featured on the website of Rupert Murdoch's rag, the New York Post. I hate to post anything from the Post, but I do so now only to substantiate what we've been expecting.

Headline: "Straight WNBA Star: Lesbian Culture Broke My Spirit." So many women and girls, inside and outside the WNBA, inside and outside women's sports, will be hurt by what Wiggins has done.

http://nypost.com/2017/02/21/retired-wnba-star-i-was-tormented-for-not-being-gay/



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zvyn3



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PostPosted: 02/21/17 1:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

MuneravenMN wrote:
Jet Jaguar wrote:
bryan_february_ wrote:
I don't like how people are assuming she's lying as if they know what's going on behind closed locker room doors. It's entirely possible that she's saying outlandish stuff to sell her book but I'm interested in hearing more about her personal experience.

If a gay player said she was bullied for being gay people would be furious and not question her; whether there were other players who experienced this or not. Since she's straight she gets dismissed as being a lier. Double standards much?


Context.

She says 98% of players are gay. That is demonstrably untrue.

She says she was bullied for being straight, but then says they called her "b__," an epithet generally referring to behavior rather than sexual orientation.

She is "proud" of being a straight woman. Think about the people you know who like to tell folks they are proud of being White. It has been my experience that proclaiming pride in being part of being part of a majority goes hand in hand with prejudice against minority groups.

I dislike bullying, but Wiggins own words raised a ton of red flags.


That's not true at all. Why is it okay to say that you're proud to be gay or to be a minority but not that you're proud of being white or being straight?


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PostPosted: 02/21/17 1:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Just saw this Facebook post from Charde Houston.
Quote:

Interesting that people only tell one side of the story. Not that part of you actually having a crush on a female, lying, harassing and threatening others because of your issues ...but anyway, I'll get back to eating my pizza...
And I don't want any attention. Just call the shit how you see it. Especially when everyone kissed your ass when you first came smh!

Quote:
Right! Where y'all math come from? Why were you the only only one who was getting pressed by the gay girls though? Nobody is even like that lol

Quote:
Lmaoooo right! Her mom and sister calling my phone all day and night talking about how they wanna fight me and how I'm jealous and all types of shit...like girl bye. She did plenty of crazy shit...and I'm still waiting to Catch the Bitch fade til this day. I'm petty and I don't forget a damn thing 😂😂😂😂....seriously though, like who bullied you?

Quote:
"Bread crumbs" comes from her being born with a silver spoon in her mouth. "Bread crumbs" allowed me
To take care of my family. So that big ass house she used to live in stayed dirty so it goes to show...Size doesn't matter. It's who you are and what you stand for as a person. All of a sudden we fighting for "pennies"...like you weren't there too FOH

Quote:
Ivory Latta Chardé Houston she just mad because 98% of the time her weave was horrible but let me sip my tea and mind my business☕️ 🐸☕️ #PettyLatta

Quote:
She use to ask sooooooo many gay questions all the time. We all knew she wanted the NBA dick! And nobody cared until they had a story about the experience lol

Quote:

Or mention the night your drunk ass wanted to go home with a guy you just met at the club. And I literally had to argue her down that she wasn't leaving me and Nicky to go fuck with a stranger...talk about how people looked out for you when it could of turned out all bad!!


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PostPosted: 02/21/17 1:38 pm    ::: Re: Wiggins: WNBA's 'harmful' culture of bullying, jealousy Reply Reply with quote

Genero, the Burn Book and the Mariah Carey pictures/GIFs were AWESOME!


hyperetic



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PostPosted: 02/21/17 2:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zvyn3 wrote:

That's not true at all. Why is it okay to say that you're proud to be gay or to be a minority but not that you're proud of being white or being straight?


On the surface of it, theoretically there shouldn't be anything wrong with it per say. Everybody being able to be proud in who or what they are should be a positive, right? Here's the thing... the idea of being white and straight have been lionized since time in memoriam. There is daily affirmation of how good it is to be white and straight. It was held up as the ideal thing to be for generations to the detriment of all others. We didn't see ourselves in print, cinema, news and when we did, more often than not it was in a negative connotation. It is why there are Black Pride, Gay Pride, Cuban Pride, Puerto Rican Pride, etc., etc. movements. We were held out of the mainstream for so long, not considered worthy by the majority. To counteract th negativity we decided to tell ourselves we were worthy. Its not that being white and straight is not something you can take pride in. Its when that pride is taken to a level that becomes racially exclusive, xenophobic, and homophobic that it becomes a problem.


Last edited by hyperetic on 02/21/17 2:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 02/21/17 2:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
This is very sad ... and very disappointing.

I've watched Candice Wiggins play since she was in high school, and she's always been a very good basketball player. She also played with a lot of emotion -- she wanted to win, and did what was necessary to do so.

At the same time, she incessantly complained about foul calls on her, and reports make it clear she was a big-time trash talker.

All that to say she was a very good player, but not a perfect one ...

Her father was Alan Wiggins, a major league baseball player who excelled before cocaine addiction ended his career and eventually killed him, but she went to La Jolla Country Day, a tony private school, and Stanford, an elite institution that is justifiably considered one of the best universities in the country, if not the world.

I would estimate, given her overseas earning, that Wiggins made at $2 million and likely closer to $3 million, in her professional career, and traveled around the world.

All that to say that women's basketball contributed greatly to her getting a superior education and also generated more income for her before the age of 30 than many people make in a lifetime.

And yet this is the message she chooses to deliver ...

Very sad, and very disappointing


I agree wholeheartedly. And on three fronts my thought process was very similar to yours. Her will to win would make one believe she loved playing and competing. Her thoughts about her dad, some of which she has made public in articles and interviews, are very compelling. And playing this sport has enabled to her to earn an enormous amount of money and get a free top-tier education. I really valued Wiggins in NY. It's very disappointing.

Not to mention, the conservative-leaning NY Post ran an article about it today, as people have predicted.

http://nypost.com/2017/02/21/retired-wnba-star-i-was-tormented-for-not-being-gay/



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Hoops9092



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PostPosted: 02/21/17 2:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Very interesting statements by my beloved Candice.

To be honest, when I attended my first WNBA game in Sacramento in 2004 or 2005 I was absolutely stunned how many lesbians I was surrounded by. I have nothing against lesbians, gays, trans, etc - but I Just didn't realize how much of a social outing WNBA games were for lesbian couples.

I, as a young fan at the time, didn't necessarily feel the "out of place" feeling, but I sure learned that day that this was a lesbian dominated sporting event.

Sad to see Candice take it to this point. Hoping she steps forward to clarify and/or apologize.




Last edited by Hoops9092 on 02/21/17 2:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
jap



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PostPosted: 02/21/17 2:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

i think Wiggy seriously needs a hug.



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PostPosted: 02/21/17 2:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Wasn't it Deanna Nolan who targeted her as a rookie and said some pretty F'd up stuff?


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PostPosted: 02/21/17 2:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zvyn3 wrote:

That's not true at all. Why is it okay to say that you're proud to be gay or to be a minority but not that you're proud of being white or being straight?

This is a very good question, with a very complex answer. It is complex because it deals with relative relationships between different social classes and it is not always a static metric.

We must distinguish the context in which someone is asserting their "pride". It is always good to feel proud of who you are. People should not be ashamed of themselves, no matter their background or identity. And anyone who struggles with self image issues should be encouraged to vocalize their self worth in a constructive manner.

When someone who is part of a traditionally marginalized class announces their "pride" it is typically in direct response to that marginalization. Traditional cultural and social ideologies work against them, interpellating them to be ashamed of who they are. "Pride" movements are meant to counter those forces.

As with most movements, there tends also to be a reactionary force that wants to maintain the current culture and social balances. This is where the term "White Pride" arises, with its specific connotation. Because of this, certain terms are freighted with these connotations, no matter who is using them or why.

But outside of that, we also have to understand that none of this happens in a vacuum. While I can be proud of who I am, when I take a public stance about that pride I am now affecting other people. For a non-marginalized person to do this, it flaunts their privilege in the face of those who do not have it. Think of a wealthy person bragging about their wealth in a homeless shelter. It is at best tactless, and at worst deliberately cruel. Ultimately, the question comes down to Why do I need to proclaim my pride at being white (or straight), when all of society already accepts me as I am?. What does this proclamation accomplish?

Think of it also in terms of why it is okay to have a United Negro College Fund, but a United White Person College Fund would be inappropriate. In one it works to fix a well-established imbalance, in the other it would pile on to that imbalance.

Now, this is the general state of that question. Different dynamics can change the equation so that it makes sense to make that statement. In the case of Wiggins, I actually don't have an issue with her using this phrase. As I mentioned, pride is about taking ownership of who you are in the face of opposing forces. Due to the outside perception of the WNBA as a league full of lesbians, it actually makes sense that a straight woman would want to express her identity. That it is possible to be straight, embrace what is traditionally thought of as feminine, and still be a world class women's basketball player.

The problem with what she wrote is that she did this in a framework that allows her to express her identity while simultaneously perpetuating the erroneous perceptions about the league and making it into an "us vs. them" issue between gay and straight players. When she writes about being proud in the direct context of that gay vs. straight dynamic it no longer is just about how she is marginalized by outside forces, and necessarily draws comparisons to the pride movements as a whole. It should not be surprising that people would be taken aback by her comments.



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PostPosted: 02/21/17 3:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Imani Boyette's response: Dear Candice



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PostPosted: 02/21/17 4:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Scarab wrote:
Imani Boyette's response: Dear Candice


Thanks for posting this powerful statement.



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PostPosted: 02/21/17 4:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Scarab wrote:
Imani Boyette's response: Dear Candice
Thank you for the link to Imani's blog. I posted it with a comment to the Seattle Times, which printed Tod Leonard's interview with Candice (why, I have no idea).


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PostPosted: 02/21/17 4:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Carol Anne wrote:
Scarab wrote:
Imani Boyette's response: Dear Candice
Thank you for the link to Imani's blog. I posted it with a comment to the Seattle Times, which printed Tod Leonard's interview with Candice (why, I have no idea).


Good thinking. I was just lamenting the fact that the general public won't see what Mo and Imani wrote. However, if we have an opportunity to post those links ourselves, that would help the cause somewhat.



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PostPosted: 02/21/17 5:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
You stated that, “98% of the women in the league are gay” – that’s not only false but it’s unfair. You retired last year, have you met all 144 of us and been privy to our private lives? In your “research” did you really find only 3 women were straight? Do you know that orientation is not binary? Do you understand what you’ve done? You’ve reinforced unfair stereotypes. A person’s orientation is their own and their business. Now, because of your article, it is no longer out of bounds to ask WNBA players about their sexuality.


Quote:
First, I was sad because that was your reality. I’m sorry you were bullied and felt that way during your career. Bullying is serious and no one deserves it. I hope you know that says more about the people who chose to mistreat you than you yourself. I hope one day your love for this sport returns, even if only as a spectator. I don’t know you personally nor was I there so I can’t deny your experiences nor would I try to. But I will defend a league I grew up with and am now a part of. Have you or did you ever reach out to the union? Did you confront these women?




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PostPosted: 02/21/17 5:23 pm    ::: Re: Wiggins: WNBA's 'harmful' culture of bullying, jealousy Reply Reply with quote

CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
Genero, the Burn Book and the Mariah Carey pictures/GIFs were AWESOME!


You could never go wrong with a Mariah gif.




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PostPosted: 02/21/17 5:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

God, I'm so proud to have Imani in Chicago.


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PostPosted: 02/21/17 6:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

hyperetic wrote:
zvyn3 wrote:

That's not true at all. Why is it okay to say that you're proud to be gay or to be a minority but not that you're proud of being white or being straight?


On the surface of it, theoretically there shouldn't be anything wrong with it per say. Everybody being able to be proud in who or what they are should be a positive, right? Here's the thing... the idea of being white and straight have been lionized since time in memoriam. There is daily affirmation of how good it is to be white and straight. It was held up as the ideal thing to be for generations to the detriment of all others. We didn't see ourselves in print, cinema, news and when we did, more often than not it was in a negative connotation. It is why there are Black Pride, Gay Pride, Cuban Pride, Puerto Rican Pride, etc., etc. movements. We were held out of the mainstream for so long, not considered worthy by the majority. To counteract th negativity we decided to tell ourselves we were worthy. Its not that being white and straight is not something you can take pride in. Its when that pride is taken to a level that becomes racially exclusive, xenophobic, and homophobic that it becomes a problem.


Well-stated.

I was a season ticket holder the whole time Wiggins was in MN. My wife and I always found her a bit odd. She was talented and a hard worker. I wish I could pin down why we found her off-putting but I can't. It is often hard to know exactly why you are put off by someone. We cheered her on and certainly felt bad for her when she was injured. But somehow she was hard to warm up to. Obviously some players are gregarious and easy to like, and others are harder to get to know. That wasn't it. But if I were going to compare her to another athlete I just never could warm up to, it would be A-Rod. I am a long-time Mariners fan but I never liked A-Rod. Huge talent. Something odd about the guy.



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PostPosted: 02/21/17 7:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Well HuffPost (Huffington Post) Black Voices has posted it. Take a look at the comments to the post. https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10155541456957565&id=10018702564



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PostPosted: 02/21/17 7:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

" If the environment was so bad, then why did't she quit and just play overseas"

would you say that about a gay man who played in the nfl, nba, etc and stayed there many years?.....no.....you would say they did for the love of the game, the money, the travel, etc....

I believe every word CW says and most people know it as well...

I know of straight college bb players who got NO chance in the WNBA clique...none....due to their being "different"...iows....straight....

discrimination....it looks ugly no matter who is doing it.....


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PostPosted: 02/21/17 7:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Oh, shiiiiiiiiit, Charde goin' in.

Now I'm paranoid and wondering if it's just a coincidence that Wiggins opened her mouth and snagged the spotlight right when Augustus was announcing the film thing, or if she's being petty because she can.



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PostPosted: 02/21/17 7:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Goodness, this whole thing is just....sad all around....

Great response from Imani.


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PostPosted: 02/21/17 7:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

so, let me get this "straight"...

she's the jerk for making these charges....

but most on this board are NOT jerks for attacking her...????? me thinks many people doth protest too much...

truth hurts..

..maybe the best solution would be for the wnba to LOOK at itself and wonder why such charges are brought up, because anybody in the general population will completely agree with them, and why it struggles to attract a big fan base and why it has to give away tickets to make it look like it has any fans....

you want fans, you have to appeal to ALL people and not small segments....

its called marketing....its called selling a product...


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PostPosted: 02/21/17 7:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It's called "straight people can watch, admire, and look up to lesbians too".



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PostPosted: 02/21/17 8:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

elsie wrote:
so, let me get this "straight"...

she's the jerk for making these charges....

but most on this board are NOT jerks for attacking her...????? me thinks many people doth protest too much...

truth hurts..

..maybe the best solution would be for the wnba to LOOK at itself and wonder why such charges are brought up, because anybody in the general population will completely agree with them, and why it struggles to attract a big fan base and why it has to give away tickets to make it look like it has any fans....

you want fans, you have to appeal to ALL people and not small segments....

its called marketing....its called selling a product...


She's one of my favorite players but I have to call it like I see it. First off, the 98% is a total exaggeration. And to paraphrase what Chantelle Anderson said on Facebook, when there's an exaggeration to that extent you have to wonder about the veracity of the rest of her statement. Secondly, WNBA players have uniformly on social media disagreed with the part discussing orientation and its influence.

Wiggins was a physical and chippy player. She was slender and had lost something of her athleticism through injury. I actually admired her toughness. In pickup basketball, and being the smallest player in stature on the court, I often did the same to compensate. I was sometimes disliked for it. Basketball is a physical sport. As a rookie, I'm not surprised that she was introduced to the pro game so harshly. Becky Hammon was roughed up by the Liberty in her first training camp as well. It's a way to initiate players so that they know what they are up against as pros. Becky (never one of my favorites) didn't whine about it and admitted it made her a better player. It's hardly a stretch to think that the same standard was applied to Ice, with the caveat that maybe it got a little personal because some players didn't like her. Wouldn't be the first time a rookie had to be reminded of their stature relative to other players...regardless of the sport.

I don't have a problem with her expression of the experience of feeling bullied. No one can tell her how to feel. But when you make such sweeping statements about the orientation of players you damn well should have something more in the way of evidence and not just your opinion before you do. It's unfair to the league, individual players and the fans. End of story.



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PostPosted: 02/21/17 8:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

elsie wrote:
" If the environment was so bad, then why did't she quit and just play overseas"

would you say that about a gay man who played in the nfl, nba, etc and stayed there many years?.....no.....you would say they did for the love of the game, the money, the travel, etc....

I believe every word CW says and most people know it as well...

I know of straight college bb players who got NO chance in the WNBA clique...none....due to their being "different"...iows....straight....

discrimination....it looks ugly no matter who is doing it.....


Sorry, not buying it.

Tell me a WNBA locker room can be bitchy? I'll bite. Tell me there is jealousy, that differences in race, class, sexual orientation, and religion can lead to cliques and arguments and so on? Sure. But there is no way there is some lesbian cabal that comprises 98% of WNBA players and goes around picking on the poor straight girls who play basketball.

You have an agenda and it is showing, not unlike Wiggins.



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