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tfan



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PostPosted: 01/19/19 9:39 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The High Stakes of BuzzFeed’s Story on Trump Tower Moscow


Inside the Mueller team’s decision to dispute BuzzFeed’s explosive story on Trump and Cohen


justintyme



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PostPosted: 01/20/19 4:19 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This stuff is actually really fascinating to me. Normally after something like this happens the editors are falling all over themselves to issue retractions and start trying to figure out where they messed up. But BuzzFeed News has just doubled down again on their reporting, saying they have reconfirmed their sources and stand by their reporting. For them to do that, they must be very confident in their sources (whomever their two unnamed law enforcement officials are, and whatever corroboration they provided). It will be interesting to see what ultimately comes of this.

BuzzFeed took a lot of flak from other journalists for publishing the Steele Dossier, and as more and more of it has been proven true that decision is looking better every day. Either this is going to solidify them as a A1 news organization, or it will utterly torpedo their credibility to a point that they will never recover. Risky as hell gambit.



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mercfan3



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PostPosted: 01/20/19 8:34 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
This stuff is actually really fascinating to me. Normally after something like this happens the editors are falling all over themselves to issue retractions and start trying to figure out where they messed up. But BuzzFeed News has just doubled down again on their reporting, saying they have reconfirmed their sources and stand by their reporting. For them to do that, they must be very confident in their sources (whomever their two unnamed law enforcement officials are, and whatever corroboration they provided). It will be interesting to see what ultimately comes of this.

BuzzFeed took a lot of flak from other journalists for publishing the Steele Dossier, and as more and more of it has been proven true that decision is looking better every day. Either this is going to solidify them as a A1 news organization, or it will utterly torpedo their credibility to a point that they will never recover. Risky as hell gambit.


Mueller’s “denial” doesn’t actually say much.

IMO, this is likely the first piece of information out that Mueller didn’t want out, and they likely have a few details wrong.



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Howee



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PostPosted: 01/20/19 11:20 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Going by what all the talking heads have to say, my feelings about impeachment have been all over the map. But after hearing Yoni Applebaum ("The Atlantic") explain his logic, it becomes apparent it's the only Right Thing to do. Certainly, the general public needs to be educated on what impeachment is and is NOT. Most just see it as a 'kick 'im outta office' kind of thing, when in fact, it's a more complex process of accountability.

"When" is still up for debate....certainly, the Mueller investigation must conclude.

Yoni explains



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toad455



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PostPosted: 01/20/19 12:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It's been a slow and painful waiting period but it feels like the sh!t is going to hit the fan soon. Also, some experts think if #45 gets impeached, Pence will resign, making Pelosi president.



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PUmatty



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PostPosted: 01/20/19 12:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
It's been a slow and painful waiting period but it feels like the sh!t is going to hit the fan soon. Also, some experts think if #45 gets impeached, Pence will resign, making Pelosi president.


What experts think that? There seems to me a 0% chance of that. Why would Pence intentionally make a Democrat president?


justintyme



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PostPosted: 01/20/19 1:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
toad455 wrote:
It's been a slow and painful waiting period but it feels like the sh!t is going to hit the fan soon. Also, some experts think if #45 gets impeached, Pence will resign, making Pelosi president.


What experts think that? There seems to me a 0% chance of that. Why would Pence intentionally make a Democrat president?

Yeah, I can't see that happening.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 01/20/19 1:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
It's been a slow and painful waiting period but it feels like the sh!t is going to hit the fan soon. Also, some experts think if #45 gets impeached, Pence will resign, making Pelosi president.


Only if he's also implicated. Otherwise he'll finish the term, and his political career, as a lame duck.



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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 01/20/19 2:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Lot of wishful thinking here going into the forming of opinions from far outside the circles of expertise on these matters. You have to read and take a little more seriously what the New York Times and Washington Post, and their sources inside the justice dept., are saying is the meaning of the special counsel's denial of the Buzzfeed story.

But I agree with Justintyme that this is fascinating. The reporters and editor at Buzzfeed are and have been, heretofore, first rate journalists. But ever since Watergate every journalist dreams of being the next Woodward and Bernstein. We know this. Trump looks like the president who would afford some reporters and news organization the opportunity to become iconic names for breaking the news of the existence of a smoking gun that brings down a president and placing themselves beside the Washington Post team that basically brought down Nixon.

So you get some sources inside (somewhere?) government telling you that there's written documentation of the POTUS suborning perjury and it seems that they decided they had to make their move on that lifelong dream of being this generation's king-toppling reporters sort of and news organization by hitching their wagon to this incredibly damning evidence that the Mueller team supposedly had. And with Trump being as unconventionally unacceptable to such a large part of this country they would have been making themselves cultural saviors in the process.

The idea that no other news organization was able or is yet able to corroborate their information is REALLY a super red flag.

Another thing no one is talking about is who their sources were and what's going to happen to them now. Mueller and leaks are two things that don't go together at all. That's an interesting subject right there.

Of course, other than on Jan 20, 2021, the actual process of how Trump would exit the front door of the White House for the last time is a complete unknown and that's something that no one can predict. That remains probably the most interesting angle of all given there was some reason that he should be legally deserving of that.

I'm thinking Trump is going to finish out his term. But it will be interesting to see how journalism as an institution reacts to Buzzfeed in the coming months.



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mercfan3



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PostPosted: 01/20/19 6:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
Lot of wishful thinking here going into the forming of opinions from far outside the circles of expertise on these matters. You have to read and take a little more seriously what the New York Times and Washington Post, and their sources inside the justice dept., are saying is the meaning of the special counsel's denial of the Buzzfeed story.

But I agree with Justintyme that this is fascinating. The reporters and editor at Buzzfeed are and have been, heretofore, first rate journalists. But ever since Watergate every journalist dreams of being the next Woodward and Bernstein. We know this. Trump looks like the president who would afford some reporters and news organization the opportunity to become iconic names for breaking the news of the existence of a smoking gun that brings down a president and placing themselves beside the Washington Post team that basically brought down Nixon.

So you get some sources inside (somewhere?) government telling you that there's written documentation of the POTUS suborning perjury and it seems that they decided they had to make their move on that lifelong dream of being this generation's king-toppling reporters sort of and news organization by hitching their wagon to this incredibly damning evidence that the Mueller team supposedly had. And with Trump being as unconventionally unacceptable to such a large part of this country they would have been making themselves cultural saviors in the process.

The idea that no other news organization was able or is yet able to corroborate their information is REALLY a super red flag.

Another thing no one is talking about is who their sources were and what's going to happen to them now. Mueller and leaks are two things that don't go together at all. That's an interesting subject right there.

Of course, other than on Jan 20, 2021, the actual process of how Trump would exit the front door of the White House for the last time is a complete unknown and that's something that no one can predict. That remains probably the most interesting angle of all given there was some reason that he should be legally deserving of that.

I'm thinking Trump is going to finish out his term. But it will be interesting to see how journalism as an institution reacts to Buzzfeed in the coming months.


Buzzfeed produced the Steele Dossier, a lot of which has been proven to be correct. They’ve been at the forefront of this. If you remember, the Times and Wapo were quite incorrect about it during the election.

Let me throw that out there.

Obviously something is innacurate, but we don’t know what.



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calbearman76



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PostPosted: 01/20/19 7:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
Going by what all the talking heads have to say, my feelings about impeachment have been all over the map. But after hearing Yoni Applebaum ("The Atlantic") explain his logic, it becomes apparent it's the only Right Thing to do. Certainly, the general public needs to be educated on what impeachment is and is NOT. Most just see it as a 'kick 'im outta office' kind of thing, when in fact, it's a more complex process of accountability.

"When" is still up for debate....certainly, the Mueller investigation must conclude.

Yoni explains



I don't believe the country is ready for impeachment hearings yet. The House Democrats should push forward with investigations, but calling it impeachment will just serve to make Republicans become even more intransigent. It is much easier to do fact finding outside of an impeachment umbrella, and also sway public opinion of the 10% or so that have not yet made up their mind. When the Mueller report is issued that will likely create a much more solid basis for impeachment hearings.


justintyme



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PostPosted: 01/20/19 7:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:
Buzzfeed produced the Steele Dossier, a lot of which has been proven to be correct. They’ve been at the forefront of this. If you remember, the Times and Wapo were quite incorrect about it during the election.

Let me throw that out there.

Obviously something is innacurate, but we don’t know what.

Yeah, and I think jammer would agree with that as he referred to them as a being so far "first rate journalists".

They were nominated for a Pulitzer this last year, and have been all over the Russia story and are wizards when it comes to FOIA requests. But he is not wrong that there are some concerning red flags about this story, and we need to check those against our hope that this story is true and not just rationalize them away because of that hope.

For instance what Ronan Farrow, who I also consider a top notch journalist who is not afraid to speak truth to power, tweeted out is something that should be considered and not just hand waved or casually rationalized away. And it is also concerning that no other news organization has been able to even get a whiff of this same story. Usually once a bomb like this is dropped, other sources will come out of the woodwork and confirm what is already now publicly known.

Yes, Mueller's statement on the matter could be parsed and rationalized for reasons why they might play word games with the story to slow the Democrats roll if they felt everyone was getting ahead of themselves and they still had work to do, but that doesn't explain the other factors.

On the other hand, as we all see to be in agreement here, BuzzFeed News has been top notch journalisticly the last few years. And today they went on Reliable Sources on CNN and entrenched themselves even further into the story. They even discounted the idea that their sources simply could have been mistaken and confirmed that one of their reporters actually saw documented evidence. They said they revisited everything and feel that what they reported will be borne out. I mean at this point they are literally staking the entire reputation of their News department on this story, so the consequences are not small. And my rational mind just can't think that they would be that stupid if they truly didn't believe with every ounce of their being in this story.

So ultimately, this ends in one of two ways:
1: The end of BuzzFeed News
2: Winning Pulitzer Prizes and eventually an Oscar winning movie being made about the whole ordeal.

Which is just fucking fascinating as hell.



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Howee



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PostPosted: 01/20/19 11:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
So ultimately, this ends in one of two ways:
1: The end of BuzzFeed News
2: Winning Pulitzer Prizes and eventually an Oscar winning movie being made about the whole ordeal.


Orrr....what if....STEVE BANNON is the source...? Revenge on the prez who brushed him aside? Shocked Shocked Then we're just down to a Lifetime Movie Original. Razz

Kidding aside, I DO hope that a rational sense of responsibility presides. ESPECIALLY in this era when journalism is under fire for--among other things--over-reporting too many tempests in teapots. And lordy help us if anything illegal is done to procure "The Big Leak" that might jeopardize the integrity of the investigation.

One of the panelist/talking heads this morning on "Meet the Press" mentioned a (now) obvious novelty to Buzzfeed's thing: this seems to be the first 'scoop' that Mueller's team has taken the time to counter. What's the implication there, on this bit, or the others that were ignored?



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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 01/21/19 12:38 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think the implications are, Howee, pretty much as the Washington Post has described them. I don’t know, of course. But this is different than downplaying the Steele dossier. This is Mueller refuting Buzzfeed.

And the implications as the two most important newspapers have describe them are that this extraordinary step was taken because the conclusion of the Buzzfeed story that says Trump suborned perjury was categorically wrong and that it was such an explosive conclusion that it required an ultra-rare pushback from the special counsel.

I mean, the special counsel’s office hasn’t pushed back on the WaPo or NYTimes’s analysis of their office’s statement.

Now what would it mean if the Post and the Times, and by now many others, were not only beaten to a story they couldn’t confirm even after it had broke and then they were wrong in their analysis of the special counsel’s statement? I just don’t thing that’s the world we’re living in.

Who on Mueller’s team would literally show documentation of the POTUS suborning perjury, what would be among the most critical physical evidence in any matter in US history, to reporters? And why? That’s crazy. We know Trump is nuts, but they can’t all be nuts.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 01/25/19 8:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
Roger Stone, a former adviser to President Donald Trump, was indicted by a federal grand jury as part of special counsel Robert Mueller's probe and arrested Friday on charges of obstruction, giving false statements and witness tampering.

Stone has been under the microscope over his alleged connection to WikiLeaks and hacked Democratic emails released by the site during the 2016 presidential campaign. He has repeatedly denied any collusion with WikiLeaks.

Stone, 66, was arrested in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, and is expected to make an initial appearance at 11 a.m. Friday in a federal courthouse on the seven counts.

Stone was an official with the Trump campaign as of August 2015, although "maintained regular contact with and publicly supported" the campaign through the 2016 election, according to the grand jury indictment filed Thursday in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia.


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna962601?__twitter_impression=true



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toad455



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PostPosted: 01/25/19 9:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Another piece of the puzzle.



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sambista



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PostPosted: 01/25/19 9:39 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ok, so, though i don't agree with the media feeding frenzy (c'mon! overkill! this story needs no embellishment.), i'm certainly enjoying it. one pundit (didn't get her name) said on cnn, "if you look up scumbag in the dictionary, you'll see roger stone's picture." hahahahahahahahaha!

and the nyt writes in its home-page tease that stone "has spent decades plying the dark arts of scandal-mongering and dirty tricks to help influence American political campaigns."

the dark arts? really? what, is this game of thrones? way over the top.

but as donald jr. once said, i love it.

we've never had a president whose pathological lying and other sociopathic behavior has forced the media to these depths, and i regret where we've gone, but i want this criminal and all his partners in crime to feel the pain inflicted on us and our country, and i will enjoy every twist of the knife.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 01/25/19 11:02 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stone/Wikileaks has been in the news for a while. He testified to Congress about it on September 26. Meuller and his team move at a glacial pace.

They went to his house pre-dawn with large weapons (and CNN filming). Was Stone going to resist arrest with a gunfight? Would he have gone on the run if they called and asked him to come down? Seems absurd and seems to reflect how much hate there is for Team Trump (Stone may just be a peripheral figure).


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PostPosted: 01/25/19 2:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

this mofo. i can't listen anymore. he's making it sound like he won, like he made a deal, when he knows he lost, he caved. YOU CAVED, you sorry-ass punk-ass bitch!

Evil or Very Mad



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Genero36



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PostPosted: 01/25/19 3:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Pelosi owns his bitch ass.




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justintyme



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PostPosted: 01/25/19 4:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sambista wrote:
this mofo. i can't listen anymore. he's making it sound like he won, like he made a deal, when he knows he lost, he caved. YOU CAVED, you sorry-ass punk-ass bitch!

Evil or Very Mad

The "master negotiator" accepted a deal to reopen the government for less than what the Democrats were offering even a few days ago. It's like when you try to "negotiate" a punishment with your parents and they just keep coming back with a longer one. Twisted Evil

Yeah, Pelosi just took him back out to the woodshed and beat his ass raw. And from the reactions on twitter, even his die hard followers aren't buying his spin attempts.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 01/25/19 4:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Genero36 wrote:
Pelosi owns his bitch ass.



I love her. We need to feel blessed Paul Ryan stepped down. She ain't dealing with his b.s.!!!



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cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 01/25/19 5:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The Art of the Deal...



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sambista



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PostPosted: 01/25/19 7:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Genero36 wrote:
Pelosi owns his bitch ass.



I love her. We need to feel blessed Paul Ryan stepped down. She ain't dealing with his b.s.!!!


yeah, but nancy n chuck need to tread lightly with this "hope he learned his lesson" stuff. or he'll flip like a freakin light switch. just be glad with the win and move on.

don't
poke
the
bear!



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Ex-Ref



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PostPosted: 01/25/19 9:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm asking this seriously- What the hell did he think was going to happen?

Did he really think that he could stop paying 880,000 workers and they would understand and want him to hold his ground?

He couldn't get the money from HIS OWN PARTY, how the hell did he think he would get if from the Dems?

Please tell me that he knew how this would eventually end and that there was something more than his ego that he was fighting for. That there really was a legit purpose to what he did.

Because right now he's looking like the biggest fucking dumb ass ever. I mean seriously, when the minority's bill gets more votes than the majority's, that HAS to tell you something.



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