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cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 09/13/17 10:56 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

What's her point?



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Jet Jaguar



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PostPosted: 09/13/17 5:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
The few. The proud. The dupedplorables.


http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/08/trump_s_bigoted_base_by_the_numbers.html

Do you like white supremacists? When you remove the Klan/Nazi references and ask people what they think of groups that advocate racial superiority, people who approve of Trump’s job performance again stand out. In the Marist poll, Trump approvers are slightly more likely than whites—5 percent versus 3 percent—to say that they mostly agree with “the white supremacy movement.” In the PPP survey, 7 percent of Trump voters say they have a favorable opinion of “white supremacists,” compared to 4 percent of whites and 1 percent of Clinton voters. In the Morning Consult poll, 7 percent of whites and 9 percent of Republicans express a favorable view of white supremacists. Among strong Trump approvers, that number shoots up to 15 percent.

This article is BS from the very first paragraph. He never said there were "fine people" with the neo-Nazis. There were good people protesting the statue removal, which I'm sure was true since most Americans are against it. And he never said there was "bigotry on many sides". He said there was violence and blame on both sides, which there was. Although I'd expect you to agree with this. It's not like facts matter to people like you. And I like how you like to call other people racist when your signature for your profile is inherently racist.



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Jet Jaguar



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PostPosted: 09/13/17 5:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
What's her point?

Kind of slow, eh?



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cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 09/14/17 7:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Jet Jaguar wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
The few. The proud. The dupedplorables.


http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/08/trump_s_bigoted_base_by_the_numbers.html

Do you like white supremacists? When you remove the Klan/Nazi references and ask people what they think of groups that advocate racial superiority, people who approve of Trump’s job performance again stand out. In the Marist poll, Trump approvers are slightly more likely than whites—5 percent versus 3 percent—to say that they mostly agree with “the white supremacy movement.” In the PPP survey, 7 percent of Trump voters say they have a favorable opinion of “white supremacists,” compared to 4 percent of whites and 1 percent of Clinton voters. In the Morning Consult poll, 7 percent of whites and 9 percent of Republicans express a favorable view of white supremacists. Among strong Trump approvers, that number shoots up to 15 percent.

This article is BS from the very first paragraph. He never said there were "fine people" with the neo-Nazis. There were good people protesting the statue removal, which I'm sure was true since most Americans are against it. And he never said there was "bigotry on many sides". He said there was violence and blame on both sides, which there was. Although I'd expect you to agree with this. It's not like facts matter to people like you. And I like how you like to call other people racist when your signature for your profile is inherently racist.


Link the scientific polls, please. Thanks.



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cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 09/14/17 7:38 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Jet Jaguar wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
What's her point?

Kind of slow, eh?



Yeah. Still waiting.



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cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 09/14/17 7:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Jet Jaguar wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
The few. The proud. The dupedplorables.


http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/08/trump_s_bigoted_base_by_the_numbers.html

Do you like white supremacists? When you remove the Klan/Nazi references and ask people what they think of groups that advocate racial superiority, people who approve of Trump’s job performance again stand out. In the Marist poll, Trump approvers are slightly more likely than whites—5 percent versus 3 percent—to say that they mostly agree with “the white supremacy movement.” In the PPP survey, 7 percent of Trump voters say they have a favorable opinion of “white supremacists,” compared to 4 percent of whites and 1 percent of Clinton voters. In the Morning Consult poll, 7 percent of whites and 9 percent of Republicans express a favorable view of white supremacists. Among strong Trump approvers, that number shoots up to 15 percent.

This article is BS from the very first paragraph. He never said there were "fine people" with the neo-Nazis. There were good people protesting the statue removal, which I'm sure was true since most Americans are against it. And he never said there was "bigotry on many sides". He said there was violence and blame on both sides, which there was. Although I'd expect you to agree with this. It's not like facts matter to people like you. And I like how you like to call other people racist when your signature for your profile is inherently racist.


Indeed.



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Stonington_QB



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PostPosted: 09/14/17 11:34 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
Jet Jaguar wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
The few. The proud. The dupedplorables.


http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/08/trump_s_bigoted_base_by_the_numbers.html

Do you like white supremacists? When you remove the Klan/Nazi references and ask people what they think of groups that advocate racial superiority, people who approve of Trump’s job performance again stand out. In the Marist poll, Trump approvers are slightly more likely than whites—5 percent versus 3 percent—to say that they mostly agree with “the white supremacy movement.” In the PPP survey, 7 percent of Trump voters say they have a favorable opinion of “white supremacists,” compared to 4 percent of whites and 1 percent of Clinton voters. In the Morning Consult poll, 7 percent of whites and 9 percent of Republicans express a favorable view of white supremacists. Among strong Trump approvers, that number shoots up to 15 percent.

This article is BS from the very first paragraph. He never said there were "fine people" with the neo-Nazis. There were good people protesting the statue removal, which I'm sure was true since most Americans are against it. And he never said there was "bigotry on many sides". He said there was violence and blame on both sides, which there was. Although I'd expect you to agree with this. It's not like facts matter to people like you. And I like how you like to call other people racist when your signature for your profile is inherently racist.


Link the scientific polls, please. Thanks.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/21/polls-shows-majority-of-americans-think-confederate-statues-should-remain
I mean, come on. The poll's only been around for a month now. One of many with similar results. Try getting your information from someplace other then Slate, Huffington Post and Think Progress every once in a while. Sheesh.


pilight



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PostPosted: 09/14/17 11:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Most people don't care that much, which is not reflected in the poll. Presented with a simple binary, yes/no, on removal most people say keep the status quo. But when you consider that a widely publicized rally in favor of keeping the one in Charlottesville drew fewer people than the Mystics game just up the road in Washington on the same night, the logical conclusion is that it's not a big deal to the majority of people.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 09/14/17 5:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

At this point, some of Trump's supporters are going to want impeachment. They didn't vote for him to push through an amnesty and continue to defer building a wall.


Howee



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PostPosted: 09/14/17 5:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
At this point, some of Trump's supporters are going to want impeachment. They didn't vote for him to push through an amnesty and continue to defer building a wall.

Yaa, prolly not.

He could grab a black gay Muslim woman by the pussy. On live TV. Twice. THEY'D still adore him, venerate him, and elect him King of The World. Razz



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tfan



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PostPosted: 09/14/17 5:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
tfan wrote:
At this point, some of Trump's supporters are going to want impeachment. They didn't vote for him to push through an amnesty and continue to defer building a wall.

Yaa, prolly not.

He could grab a black gay Muslim woman by the pussy. On live TV. Twice. THEY'D still adore him, venerate him, and elect him King of The World. Razz


Some might. But the ones who have illegal immigration as their number one issue are not pleased. He's lucky that even most Republicans like or condone illegal immigration. I have heard "undocumented" used by folks on Fox News.


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PostPosted: 09/14/17 6:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Jet Jaguar wrote:
It's not like facts matter to people like you.


....and then, there's the people for whom REALITY doesn't matter, eh Shades? Cool Cool



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cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 09/14/17 9:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stonington_QB wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
Jet Jaguar wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
The few. The proud. The dupedplorables.


http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/08/trump_s_bigoted_base_by_the_numbers.html

Do you like white supremacists? When you remove the Klan/Nazi references and ask people what they think of groups that advocate racial superiority, people who approve of Trump’s job performance again stand out. In the Marist poll, Trump approvers are slightly more likely than whites—5 percent versus 3 percent—to say that they mostly agree with “the white supremacy movement.” In the PPP survey, 7 percent of Trump voters say they have a favorable opinion of “white supremacists,” compared to 4 percent of whites and 1 percent of Clinton voters. In the Morning Consult poll, 7 percent of whites and 9 percent of Republicans express a favorable view of white supremacists. Among strong Trump approvers, that number shoots up to 15 percent.

This article is BS from the very first paragraph. He never said there were "fine people" with the neo-Nazis. There were good people protesting the statue removal, which I'm sure was true since most Americans are against it. And he never said there was "bigotry on many sides". He said there was violence and blame on both sides, which there was. Although I'd expect you to agree with this. It's not like facts matter to people like you. And I like how you like to call other people racist when your signature for your profile is inherently racist.


Link the scientific polls, please. Thanks.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/21/polls-shows-majority-of-americans-think-confederate-statues-should-remain
I mean, come on. The poll's only been around for a month now. One of many with similar results. Try getting your information from someplace other then Slate, Huffington Post and Think Progress every once in a while. Sheesh.


I asked for a poll because I never saw one and didn't know what the numbers were. I asked for a scientific one because I feared some bs FUX NEWS or Breitbart "poll" might be offered.

Do you really think those sites you listed would avoid disseminating that poll's results?

Do you visit The Guardian much? If so, then you're a very unusual Trump voter and know how deep in the shit he is and that it's just a matter of time.



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PostPosted: 09/14/17 10:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
At this point, some of Trump's supporters are going to want impeachment. They didn't vote for him to push through an amnesty and continue to defer building a wall.


Supporters, resisters. You guys are missing the much bigger picture. His poll numbers. Historically low now, if he keeps working across the aisle and chalking up actual progress, those numbers are going to come up. If he can be impeached because of a treasonous act or for some other high crime or abuse of power, he will be impeached or forced to resign. Groups out on the fringes aren't going to influence any of that. Nancy Pelosi today said she trusts Trump on DACA. TRUSTS him. Nancy Pelosi said this! I heard and saw her say it. There are a lot of huge issues in the pipeline that mean the WORLD to Democracts. Trump is about one or two more of these deals away from becoming what is essentially the Democratic Party's Manchurian candidate. And ALL those rust belt and industrial base working and middle class voters who put Trump in the White House will be looking over at the establishment media, lib'rals, Republican granny starters as well as the Breitbart wing of political hyper-zealotry and saying, "See this? That's a big middle finger to you all. Trump's our guy. We told you so." And if there are any resisters left, Chuck and Nancy are going to be there to say, "Sit down and shut up, Trump is OUR guy, too." Until 2020 of course. But if Trump escapes removal from office and his poll numbers come up and the world finds he actually prefers enough Democratic polices to achieve what the public views as a bipartisan effectiveness, and jobs are good and the markets are okay with it all, we could be looking at a second term. People look at the extremists. Obviously some folks have missed the Trump voters the networks have focus grouped. They all say essentially the same thing. They want Trump to start acting presidential and get something done. Stop embarrassing himself and the country. The Pittsburgh group I think CNN did was amazing. One guy said, it's not even a question of him acting presidential, he's not even acting PROFESSIONAL. lol. Right now a lot of Trump voters are embarrassed and they don't want to feel embarrassed. They want their choice to start looking like it was the right choice and not the worst choice for president ever made by the American people. Politically? I don't even know what Trump's Breitbart 'base' wants. They want him to probably start arresting members of the news media or something. lol. Certainly they wanted him to throw the Dreamers out of the country but, as Trump's campaign song warns, "You cain't always git, what you wa'ont. "


cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 09/15/17 12:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvDSf333fFo

May 3rd, 1974



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mercfan3



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PostPosted: 09/18/17 9:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

.....Let's hope he talks.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/351268-nyt-mueller-warned-manafort-to-expect-an-indictment



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cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 09/19/17 10:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

An easy way to keep track of all the Trump-Russia stuff

https://investigaterussia.org/



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cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 09/22/17 8:20 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://www.ft.com/content/de59ab54-9f03-11e7-8cd4-932067fbf946


Facebook will release to Congress the content of several thousand ads purchased by Russian operatives during the US election campaign after coming under criticism from lawmakers for holding back facts about Moscow’s use of social media.



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cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 09/24/17 8:48 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Sweet....now the asshole has taken on the NFL.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 09/24/17 9:02 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
Sweet....now the asshole has taken on the NFL.


He's still bitter that they wouldn't approve him as an owner 30 years ago



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PostPosted: 09/24/17 9:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
Sweet....now the asshole has taken on the NFL.


And the NBA...NBA players were having none of it though...Lebron especially. Laughing



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 09/24/17 10:17 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

See, he actually IS a uniter.

It's pretty damn hard to bring together NFL owners, Commissioner and players, but he's done it.

Maybe next is Israelis and Palestinians.

Shocked Razz


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 09/24/17 10:19 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
Sweet....now the asshole has taken on the NFL.


And the NBA...NBA players were having none of it though...Lebron especially. Laughing


I particularly liked LeBron's tweet - " Going to White House was a great honor until you showed up!"


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PostPosted: 09/24/17 12:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Another one of the reasons I stopped posting here was this feeling that I had finally grown, if grown is the right word, just too out of touch. I had political feelings based on my reading of what was and is going on in the country. I, for instance, thought that Trump might very well win the election. But reading what was being written and said, it was pretty easy to start questioning whether my take on things had just gotten old and stale. The New York Times, famously, had this election meter thing and coming down the stretch (all year, basically) had Trump at somewhere between 15% and down to having a single digit chance of winning. But other than for just a few weeks after the Access Hollywood tape coming out, I pretty much was convinced Trump was going to win.

So, here I am again. Looks like you guys are celebrating Trump's finally biting off more than he can chew, Steph and Lebron and now Roger Goodell, but I've been out here wanting the Steelers to pick up patient zero Colin Kapernick as a QB for the future and sort of guaging how that proposition does or doesn't float in my (old) world and I'm looking at this weekend and thinking hmm, let's just see how this all goes down in America. Shocked I should add that I don't see how anyone can be pleased that this is happening and now. For all of us, all of our sakes, Trump should never have gone here. This is some devisive shit right here. But I'm just sayin', I'm not looking for this to turn out the way people might be expecting it to.

The hypocrisy of the NFL itself, commish and owners, is stunning. Fucking get Kapernick on a roster if you're that pure on this issue. It's not like Donald Trump fired the guy from his career as an NFL player and their own ongoing intransigence isn't what has kept this thing going and helped bring us to this moment.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 09/24/17 1:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
Another one of the reasons I stopped posting here was this feeling that I had finally grown, if grown is the right word, just too out of touch. I had political feelings based on my reading of what was and is going on in the country. I, for instance, thought that Trump might very well win the election. But reading what was being written and said, it was pretty easy to start questioning whether my take on things had just gotten old and stale. The New York Times, famously, had this election meter thing and coming down the stretch (all year, basically) had Trump at somewhere between 15% and down to having a single digit chance of winning. But other than for just a few weeks after the Access Hollywood tape coming out, I pretty much was convinced Trump was going to win.

So, here I am again. Looks like you guys are celebrating Trump's finally biting off more than he can chew, Steph and Lebron and now Roger Goodell, but I've been out here wanting the Steelers to pick up patient zero Colin Kapernick as a QB for the future and sort of guaging how that proposition does or doesn't float in my (old) world and I'm looking at this weekend and thinking hmm, let's just see how this all goes down in America. Shocked I should add that I don't see how anyone can be pleased that this is happening and now. For all of us, all of our sakes, Trump should never have gone here. This is some devisive shit right here. But I'm just sayin', I'm not looking for this to turn out the way people might be expecting it to.

The hypocrisy of the NFL itself, commish and owners, is stunning. Fucking get Kapernick on a roster if you're that pure on this issue. It's not like Donald Trump fired the guy from his career as an NFL player and their own ongoing intransigence isn't what has kept this thing going and helped bring us to this moment.


I'm not glad he did it, and I doubt it's going to turn out the way most of the posters here evidently think it will.

Unfortunately I think Trump completely understands the state of the nation and that a majority or close to a majority actually agrees with him in substance if not in form or approach on this issue, and disagrees with the players, at least in form and perhaps in substance.

That doesn't mean I'm not going to ridicule him for being such an embarrassing blowhard.

By the way, I think Kapernick doesn't have a job because he's not that good. The next time an NFL owner doesn't hire a player who can help his team regardless of what he has said or done will be the first. Kapernick has just become a handy "martyr".


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 09/24/17 1:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Why am I not surprised that Tomlin and the Steelers are the one team to act like assholes today?

To stifle any protests, Tomlin makes his players stay in the locker room during the National Anthem, declaring that the protest issue is too "divisive". And he pretends it was the team's decision.

But then the one player who doesn't stay in the locker room is Army Ranger officer Villanueva who stands in the mouth of the stadium tunnel with his hand over his heart(in front of a thousand TV cameras, of course).

So one player who wants to salute the anthem does, but any players who wanted to kneel or otherwise protest were prevented from doing so.

How quickly will Trump be tweeting a picture of Villenueva as "proof" he's "right"?

I prefer coach John Harbaugh who stood arm in arm with his Ravens players, and the Jaguars owner who stood on the field arm in arm with his players.

And Michigan coach and former 49ers coach Jim Harbaugh:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/e8Qcx5JY04g" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


PUmatty



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PostPosted: 09/24/17 2:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The rage from so many toward football players that is so on display today has me more depressed about what this country is than I have been since election night.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 09/24/17 2:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
The rage from so many toward football players that is so on display today has me more depressed about what this country is than I have been since election night.


That's actually the worst part. Rather than trying to calm the "rage", Trump gets out and incites the angry mob because he thinks it aids his personal ends. He doesn't give a shit whether it hurts other Americans or what's good for the country as long as it boosts his own ego and his "base".


pilight



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PostPosted: 09/24/17 2:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
The rage from so many toward football players that is so on display today has me more depressed about what this country is than I have been since election night.


That's actually the worst part. Rather than trying to calm the "rage", Trump gets out and incites the angry mob because he thinks it aids his personal ends. He doesn't give a shit whether it hurts other Americans or what's good for the country as long as it boosts his own ego and his "base".


He only cares about his "base" to the extent that they continue to support him. Their actual well being is irrelevant to him.



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PostPosted: 09/24/17 2:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Evidently Trump wants to pretend all the people who stood today arms locked together agree with him.

According to the scroll during the football game he's trying to co-opt the owners and coaches who stood with their players (not with their hands over their hearts, but with their arms interlocked in a show of solidarity) by tweeting that standing with arms locked is good, kneeling is bad.

Oh, and of course he added something about "terrible ratings".

Sad thing is, his followers will, as usual, believe his bullshit.


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PostPosted: 09/24/17 2:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:

He only cares about his "base" to the extent that they continue to support him. Their actual well being is irrelevant to him.


If I wasn't clear, I certainly didn't mean to suggest otherwise.


cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 09/24/17 2:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Does anyone really think that anyone really thinks that this latest twitter shitstorm created by Herr Drumpf will have some serious effect on his presidency?

I'm enjoying it at face value.

The real deal- Mueller's investigation- is unaffected by the hyperbole, and grinds on.



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PostPosted: 09/24/17 3:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
jammerbirdi wrote:
Another one of the reasons I stopped posting here was this feeling that I had finally grown, if grown is the right word, just too out of touch. I had political feelings based on my reading of what was and is going on in the country. I, for instance, thought that Trump might very well win the election. But reading what was being written and said, it was pretty easy to start questioning whether my take on things had just gotten old and stale. The New York Times, famously, had this election meter thing and coming down the stretch (all year, basically) had Trump at somewhere between 15% and down to having a single digit chance of winning. But other than for just a few weeks after the Access Hollywood tape coming out, I pretty much was convinced Trump was going to win.

So, here I am again. Looks like you guys are celebrating Trump's finally biting off more than he can chew, Steph and Lebron and now Roger Goodell, but I've been out here wanting the Steelers to pick up patient zero Colin Kapernick as a QB for the future and sort of guaging how that proposition does or doesn't float in my (old) world and I'm looking at this weekend and thinking hmm, let's just see how this all goes down in America. Shocked I should add that I don't see how anyone can be pleased that this is happening and now. For all of us, all of our sakes, Trump should never have gone here. This is some devisive shit right here. But I'm just sayin', I'm not looking for this to turn out the way people might be expecting it to.

The hypocrisy of the NFL itself, commish and owners, is stunning. Fucking get Kapernick on a roster if you're that pure on this issue. It's not like Donald Trump fired the guy from his career as an NFL player and their own ongoing intransigence isn't what has kept this thing going and helped bring us to this moment.


I'm not glad he did it, and I doubt it's going to turn out the way most of the posters here evidently think it will.

Unfortunately I think Trump completely understands the state of the nation and that a majority or close to a majority actually agrees with him in substance if not in form or approach on this issue, and disagrees with the players, at least in form and perhaps in substance.

That doesn't mean I'm not going to ridicule him for being such an embarrassing blowhard.

By the way, I think Kapernick doesn't have a job because he's not that good. The next time an NFL owner doesn't hire a player who can help his team regardless of what he has said or done will be the first. Kapernick has just become a handy "martyr".


Depends what you mean by "Americans"

The majority of "Americans" - as defined by Trump - yes, agree.

I think Kapernick doesn't have a job because he's deemed "not worth the trouble." He's decent, but replaceable. It's bullshit because of who the NFL has deemed to be worth the trouble, but..it is what it is..



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mercfan3



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PostPosted: 09/24/17 3:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
Does anyone really think that anyone really thinks that this latest twitter shitstorm created by Herr Drumpf will have some serious effect on his presidency?



Of course not. Laughing

The people who support Lebron, Kobe, Paul, Curry and Kaepernick already shared the same feelings that those five expressed last night.

It's just hilarious that it was Lebron James that finally was like "Jesus Christ, you're an embarrassing dumb fuck.." Laughing

Just the fact that he managed to push an NBA player to that point..it's hilarious.



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PostPosted: 09/24/17 3:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:

Depends what you mean by "Americans"

The majority of "Americans" - as defined by Trump - yes, agree. .


Well, a Quinnipiac poll found 54% of Americans (not "Trump Americans, but all Americans) disapproved of NFL players refusing to stand during the National Anthem.


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PostPosted: 09/24/17 4:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
mercfan3 wrote:

Depends what you mean by "Americans"

The majority of "Americans" - as defined by Trump - yes, agree. .


Well, a Quinnipiac poll found 54% of Americans (not "Trump Americans, but all Americans) disapproved of NFL players refusing to stand during the National Anthem.


Haven't done the math out, and I'm not sure if the Quinnipiac poll stayed proportional to actual American demographics (polls usually don't), but it completely breaks down into demographics..and Trump's demo agrees with Trump at the highest rate.

https://apnews.com/473b96802aee41f4a11aab6286ced8b7/poll-white-americans-disapprove-national-anthem-protests



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PostPosted: 09/24/17 4:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
mercfan3 wrote:

Depends what you mean by "Americans"

The majority of "Americans" - as defined by Trump - yes, agree. .


Well, a Quinnipiac poll found 54% of Americans (not "Trump Americans, but all Americans) disapproved of NFL players refusing to stand during the National Anthem.


Haven't done the math out, and I'm not sure if the Quinnipiac poll stayed proportional to actual American demographics (polls usually don't), but it completely breaks down into demographics..and Trump's demo agrees with Trump at the highest rate.

https://apnews.com/473b96802aee41f4a11aab6286ced8b7/poll-white-americans-disapprove-national-anthem-protests


I'm sure that's true, but who cares. 54% NOT divided by candidate feels that way per Quinnipiac.

If you want to say a majority of Hillary fanatics disagree, I'll say you're probably right even eithout seeing any data. I expect far more than 46% of Hillary followers feel the opposite. But that's not "America" any more than a universe only of Trump followers represents "America."


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PostPosted: 09/24/17 4:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
Does anyone really think that anyone really thinks that this latest twitter shitstorm created by Herr Drumpf will have some serious effect on his presidency?



Of course not. Laughing

The people who support Lebron, Kobe, Paul, Curry and Kaepernick already shared the same feelings that those five expressed last night.

It's just hilarious that it was Lebron James that finally was like "Jesus Christ, you're an embarrassing dumb fuck.." Laughing

Just the fact that he managed to push an NBA player to that point..it's hilarious.


I know you and I know this, but there have been remarks by others that seem to think we think so. Wink



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PostPosted: 09/24/17 4:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
mercfan3 wrote:

Depends what you mean by "Americans"

The majority of "Americans" - as defined by Trump - yes, agree. .


Well, a Quinnipiac poll found 54% of Americans (not "Trump Americans, but all Americans) disapproved of NFL players refusing to stand during the National Anthem.


Haven't done the math out, and I'm not sure if the Quinnipiac poll stayed proportional to actual American demographics (polls usually don't), but it completely breaks down into demographics..and Trump's demo agrees with Trump at the highest rate.

https://apnews.com/473b96802aee41f4a11aab6286ced8b7/poll-white-americans-disapprove-national-anthem-protests



Indy TV poll says 62% agree with the asshole in the White House. Only surprise is that it isn't 92%.


http://wishtv.com/2017/09/23/colts-owner-irsay-troubled-by-trump-comments-on-nfl-protests/



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PostPosted: 09/24/17 4:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
mercfan3 wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
mercfan3 wrote:

Depends what you mean by "Americans"

The majority of "Americans" - as defined by Trump - yes, agree. .


Well, a Quinnipiac poll found 54% of Americans (not "Trump Americans, but all Americans) disapproved of NFL players refusing to stand during the National Anthem.


Haven't done the math out, and I'm not sure if the Quinnipiac poll stayed proportional to actual American demographics (polls usually don't), but it completely breaks down into demographics..and Trump's demo agrees with Trump at the highest rate.

https://apnews.com/473b96802aee41f4a11aab6286ced8b7/poll-white-americans-disapprove-national-anthem-protests


I'm sure that's true, but who cares. 54% NOT divided by candidate feels that way per Quinnipiac.

If you want to say a majority of Hillary fanatics disagree, I'll say you're probably right even eithout seeing any data. I expect far more than 46% of Hillary followers feel the opposite. But that's not "America" any more than a universe only of Trump followers represents "America."


Of course it doesn't, my point was simply I'm not sure I buy the poll. I'm not sure a majority of Americans agree on anything. Laughing



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PostPosted: 09/24/17 5:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
mercfan3 wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
mercfan3 wrote:

Depends what you mean by "Americans"

The majority of "Americans" - as defined by Trump - yes, agree. .


Well, a Quinnipiac poll found 54% of Americans (not "Trump Americans, but all Americans) disapproved of NFL players refusing to stand during the National Anthem.


Haven't done the math out, and I'm not sure if the Quinnipiac poll stayed proportional to actual American demographics (polls usually don't), but it completely breaks down into demographics..and Trump's demo agrees with Trump at the highest rate.

https://apnews.com/473b96802aee41f4a11aab6286ced8b7/poll-white-americans-disapprove-national-anthem-protests


I'm sure that's true, but who cares. 54% NOT divided by candidate feels that way per Quinnipiac.

If you want to say a majority of Hillary fanatics disagree, I'll say you're probably right even eithout seeing any data. I expect far more than 46% of Hillary followers feel the opposite. But that's not "America" any more than a universe only of Trump followers represents "America."


Of course it doesn't, my point was simply I'm not sure I buy the poll. I'm not sure a majority of Americans agree on anything. Laughing



Well, if you can find a better poll, let us all know. It's the only one I've seen.

Just because you find the findings inconvenient, I'm not sure I find your " I'm not sure I buy the poll" to be a particularly compelling reason to ignore it.


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PostPosted: 09/24/17 7:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:

Well, if you can find a better poll, let us all know. It's the only one I've seen.

Just because you find the findings inconvenient, I'm not sure I find your " I'm not sure I buy the poll" to be a particularly compelling reason to ignore it.

It seems a reasonable conclusion. The anti-kneeling crowd got in quick and equated kneeling for the anthem with not giving a shit about veterans, as if the flag/anthem themselves are what they fought and died for, not the ideals that they represent (one of those ideals being, you know, the right to protest when you feel your country is letting you down). That being the case, the people that don't really know all the nuances of this are going to tend to skew towards the "dislike" side of this.

And then you have the "better way" crowd that always seems to feel that protests are better done in some other way at some other time.

Just out of curiosity, though, when did kneeling become disrepectful? We kneel in church, we kneeled before kings and queens... He is still there paying attention. It is a heck of a lot more respectful than the people sitting in their living room staring at their phones, or who came late and are standing in line for a beer while the anthem plays.

Here is a fun hypothetical. Say Clinton won the election and actually did what the Republicans said she'd do and took away everyone's guns. Now some player says he's kneeling until the county restores his rights. How many of these people that don't like what Colin is doing would be singing a different tune?



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PostPosted: 09/24/17 8:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Boom, but the concept is likely lost on them.

To me, the whole "we must play the national anthem at sporting events" scenario is weird. Too many people are anal about the Anthem, the flag, and standing at attention, imo.

Isn't it always the same people all the time on the issues of guns, flags, and patriotism?

For example, if you're one of the dupedplorables who believe Obama, Hillary, or The Democrats are "coming for our guns", you probably agree w/ the douche in the WH, and all the douches around the country, who consider Kaepernick a commie/traitor, while you support the Big Orange Pussy who avoided the draft via questionable "bone spurs", disrespected John McCain, a Gold Star family, colluded with Russians to get elected, etc etc.

There really are too many of you. That a simple majority agrees with TraitorTrump isn't surprising.



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PostPosted: 09/24/17 8:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
Boom, but the concept is likely lost on them.

To me, the whole "we must play the national anthem at sporting events" scenario is weird. Too many people are anal about the Anthem, the flag, and standing at attention, imo.

Isn't it always the same people all the time on the issues of guns, flags, and patriotism?

For example, if you're one of the dupedplorables who believe Obama, Hillary, or The Democrats are "coming for our guns", you probably agree w/ the douche in the WH, and all the douches around the country, who consider Kaepernick a commie/traitor, while you support the Big Orange Pussy who avoided the draft via questionable "bone spurs", disrespected John McCain, a Gold Star family, colluded with Russians to get elected, etc etc.

There really are too many of you. That a simple majority agrees with TraitorTrump isn't surprising.


I have been having a most delicious time here in Canada. That Canadians have read The Trump Oracle so proficiently. (Oddly, they are NOT Trudeau fans, the ones I've met) Shocked



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mercfan3



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PostPosted: 09/24/17 8:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
Boom, but the concept is likely lost on them.

To me, the whole "we must play the national anthem at sporting events" scenario is weird. Too many people are anal about the Anthem, the flag, and standing at attention, imo.

Isn't it always the same people all the time on the issues of guns, flags, and patriotism?

For example, if you're one of the dupedplorables who believe Obama, Hillary, or The Democrats are "coming for our guns", you probably agree w/ the douche in the WH, and all the douches around the country, who consider Kaepernick a commie/traitor, while you support the Big Orange Pussy who avoided the draft via questionable "bone spurs", disrespected John McCain, a Gold Star family, colluded with Russians to get elected, etc etc.

There really are too many of you. That a simple majority agrees with TraitorTrump isn't surprising.


Probably right. I continue to naively think better of Americans than I should.

I think my problem is simply with polls like this in general. We're just too divided to have a consensus about anything, and I've personally seen people's opinions on Colin's protest go back and forth. Hell, after Trump made an ass of himself..if Quinnipiac was to pull Wednesday, we might get a different result.



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PostPosted: 09/25/17 12:38 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
The rage from so many toward football players that is so on display today has me more depressed about what this country is than I have been since election night.



Where have you seen rage?


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PostPosted: 09/25/17 12:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:


Probably right. I continue to naively think better of Americans than I should.


Don't you routinely call Republicans and the Republican party racist?


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PostPosted: 09/25/17 4:53 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Why am I not surprised that Tomlin and the Steelers are the one team to act like assholes today?

To stifle any protests, Tomlin makes his players stay in the locker room during the National Anthem, declaring that the protest issue is too "divisive". And he pretends it was the team's decision.

But then the one player who doesn't stay in the locker room is Army Ranger officer Villanueva who stands in the mouth of the stadium tunnel with his hand over his heart(in front of a thousand TV cameras, of course).



I thought today might be bad, but I couldn't have imagined this. That my team would become the poster child for yet another disastrously bad decision and an optical nightmare for Steelers fans. I do not support what the Steelers did today. I do not support players taking a knee or any other iteration of not standing during the national anthem. But I would have preferred something that didn't add to the ways in which our sports heroes, our escapism from everything else that's horrible in the world, could come down to the level of this kind of disrespect to that part of our national identity that is represented by the flag.

That the team's only multiple tour of duty in a foreign war veteran had to stand alone for all the world to see, while his teammates who had not served but had BEEN served instead the pleasures and perks of the star college athlete's lives on campus chose (or whatever Rolling Eyes) to LET him stand alone, is deplorable. Disgraceful. Shameful. Disgusting. The team... MY team... lost a lot of fans and support today.

The armlock in mutual support and standing in opposition to the nitwit in the Oval Office was perfect. They've done it before so it's not new but the word should have gone forth that HERE was an idea that might work for almost everybody. But I grew up with athletes. From their own mouths many would admit that they are some of the dumbest mother fuckers on the face of the planet. So a good idea? Fuck. Are you kidding me? These are guys who might think it's a good idea to slow to a dead crawl before crossing the goal line just because it felt like a cool thing to do. It happens on a professional level and it's happened in the Super Bowl. Dumb mother fuckers.

I curse Donald Trump for ruining today and I am SO sure many tomorrows in sports crazy America. Because he played this card, and it worked. His rising poll numbers might take a hit, I predict they will. But a significant portion of this country is going to be far more outraged by the many stupid displays put on today by the players, coaches, and owners of the NFL and by those from other sports who also jumped in on this one.

But Trump picked a piece of low hanging fruit that was there. It was already there, folks. The treatment of Colin Kapernick by the NFL is sitting there stinking up the recent history of the league and every day that it has gone on more and more pro athletes and regular sports fans have spoken up to say that enough is enough. WAY enough. Dude should not have missed a practice. And there have been meltdowns on ESPN and articles and Tweets by famous athletes from all fields and tens of thousands of Facebook posts by political minded fans and just regular fans as well. This whole thing was festering for a long time. The NFL and it's owners are just deplorable themselves for NOW standing up and taking Trump's bait and having a situation where the very thing that got Colin Kapernick tossed from this league ends up ALL OVER TELEVISIONS EVERYWHERE ON AN NFL SUNDAY AFTERNOON.

And God and Country almighty are people in this country going to ever be pissed at these athletes, the NFL, the owners, Colin Kapernick, all over again. It's a FUCKING DISASTER.

And of all the teams, the Pittsburgh Steelers are the poster children for not showing up on the field for the playing of the national anthem of this country. How can these people be so STUPID to have been sucked in by Donald Trump to disrespect everything having to do with that flag and nothing at all to do with Donald J. Trump?

Wow. So obviously, I'm not happy with either side in this. Trump, or the NFL players, coaches, and owners. Or the media. I support people who are pissed, though. I'm one of them. As is, I'm sure, just about everyone I've ever known in person. Family, old friends, vast swathes of this country. I'm with those people. I would have loved to have seen them soften on Kapernick's situation. But I don't expect political sophistication from people who have been denied the quality of education that might have given them political sophistication.

Lastly I'll say this. I grew up with this ethos whispered to me so many times that I never ever can go against it, even though I live in a place and we all live in a time when it's trashed by most people in this country who never even probably heard the thought expressed even once. That is, forgive the lack of gender neutrality here, but here it is. You never mess with a man's job. This is something from back in an industrial working class world that most people here probably aren't familiar with. Although the steel mills were HUGE, they weren't all lined up in a row in one place. lol. You lose a job in one, if you aren't blackballed from getting hired into another major employer, you'd be traveling far up or down the river in bad weather for the rest of your working life. But usually, you were't pretty much done at making the kind of money a big mill paid. You were second tier at that point. Shitty house, second job, used cars, kids with less of a future, etc.

So when a rich person says FIRE THE SONOFABITCH, or, worse, when a league and all its rich fucking owners takes away the career of a superb athlete for, I would say foolishly, standing up or kneeling down in this case for what he thinks is right, I ain't happy. I hear that little voice in my head. Don't mess with a man's job.

That all said, there are some problems with players doing this. A fan? Yeah, a paying fan can refuse to stand during the national anthem. But these players are EMPLOYEES of a entertainment product. An extremely valuable entertainment product. So NO, they are not free, nor should they be, to do whatever they want during the playing of the national anthem. The owners know this all too well. They know they have a great product and that having this behavior that insults the most sacred object in our shared national identity on highly rated national TV programming is a mother fucking problem. And so they decided to make an example of Colin Kapernick. Fire him! Take away his career. Bad idea! Pissed athletes off from across the spectrum and became a simmering problem that was slowing coming to a boil.

Then Trump poured gasoline on the whole thing. Those NFL players wouldn't have reacted the way they did today had they not be SO PISSED OFF already. What the owners and the NFL did to Colin Kapernick was so wrong. Please don't tell me that kid isn't that good. He's an animal. He got distracted and then he created this firestorm and there really wasn't any hope of him developing further or even getting past a slump in his playing. He blew himself up but he could have come back and the league was wrong to push him out.

I don't have a neighborhood bar and I don't drink at the moment, so this is my version of me sitting at a bar ranting.

So the Sparks did the same thing as the Steelers? Didn't come out? We didn't see the national anthem but we watched the game. Great game. But not happy that they didn't come out and at least lock arms for the national anthem. I don't support that shit. This land is your land and all that.


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PostPosted: 09/25/17 9:53 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
The rage from so many toward football players that is so on display today has me more depressed about what this country is than I have been since election night.



Where have you seen rage?


In comments sections, in social media, in conservative news outlets, in person.


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PostPosted: 09/25/17 10:36 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'd prefer the national anthem not be played in the first place.



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