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Dawn Staley New USA National Team Coach
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Durantula



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PostPosted: 03/09/17 5:43 pm    ::: Dawn Staley New USA National Team Coach Reply Reply with quote

Not a big fan of power 5 coaches (throw in UConn too) doing the national team gig because of the inherent recruiting advantage. On the men's side with Coach K, on the women's side with Geno. On the men's side Calipari is doing it this summer with U19s. Staley now. Prefer to see WNBA coaches or mid major coaches do it because the recruiting advantage is nullified. Am I alone in this thinking?


tfan



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PostPosted: 03/09/17 7:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I agree with your point.


Ay Mate



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PostPosted: 03/09/17 7:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

You honestly think that Geno coaching the national team has boosted their recruiting? He was getting great recruits long before he ever coached the national team.


pilight



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PostPosted: 03/09/17 8:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ay Mate wrote:
You honestly think that Geno coaching the national team has boosted their recruiting? He was getting great recruits long before he ever coached the national team.


When Geno was appointed head coach of Team USA in 2009 he had only five national championships and was five years removed from the most recent one. Since his appointment he's won six national championships in eight years and is favored to win again this year. He's gotten an enormous advantage from being head coach of Team USA.



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Durantula



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PostPosted: 03/09/17 8:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ay Mate wrote:
You honestly think that Geno coaching the national team has boosted their recruiting? He was getting great recruits long before he ever coached the national team.


I think it has. Now you have to be a winning program too. The elite kids aren't going to flock to Wake Forest if their coach became the USA team coach. Generally yes he has recruited very well but on an individual level you never know which elite player prefers UConn because of the USA Basketball connections that other colleges may not have. It's not like he gets every recruit but I think some recruits like at UConn as the best chance for them to play on the USA team right or wrong. And when he's no longer the USA coach he will still recruit well but I think then Dawn Staley will gain from this.

The only issue to me is because the best players pick the same schools you are really limiting your pool when picking college coaches. There are probably a lot of good coaches out there who aren't household names because they don't get the elite player, but if you gave them a Wilson and Coates they'd be darn good too.


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PostPosted: 03/09/17 8:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Ay Mate wrote:
You honestly think that Geno coaching the national team has boosted their recruiting? He was getting great recruits long before he ever coached the national team.


When Geno was appointed head coach of Team USA in 2009 he had only five national championships and was five years removed from the most recent one. Since his appointment he's won six national championships in eight years and is favored to win again this year. He's gotten an enormous advantage from being head coach of Team USA.


Are you crediting his '09 and '10 NCs to that gig?



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Durantula



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PostPosted: 03/09/17 8:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Here's an article that discussed Coach K's recruiting advantage with USA Basketball. Why wouldn't a women's USA coach not have similar advantages?

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba-needs-to-pull-stars-from-usa-basketball--which-is-showcasing-only-duke-s-coach-044717393.html


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 03/09/17 9:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ay Mate wrote:
You honestly think that Geno coaching the national team has boosted their recruiting?


Without a doubt.


Durantula



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PostPosted: 03/09/17 9:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Ay Mate wrote:
You honestly think that Geno coaching the national team has boosted their recruiting?


Without a doubt.


Here's one thing that goes under the radar. Geno is recruiting really well right now but since becoming USA Basketball coach, I think he is recruiting LESS because sometimes in the summer he may have USA Basketball commitments when AAU is going on. No other coach could possibly spend less time watching top targets and recruit better. Geno gets to miss sitting in a gym from 8 AM to 10 PM watching mediocre AAU basketball while every coach he competes with has to. But then he can call them on the phone and say he's coaching the USA team and they will be in awe.

So now Dawn will probably spend less time recruiting and recruit better. There was a legit question to how she would recruit after Wilson and Coates left because they were local kids and her other big names were transfers but its not sustainable to exepct all conference kids to transfer in.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 03/09/17 9:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This was completely predictable. USA basketball was going to pick one of their assistants or age group coaches and Staley was in line. She was the obvious choice.

I'm not convinced she's that great a strategic or gametime coach, especially on offense, but the U S has such a talent advantage at the Olympic level they're going to win gold regardless of who's coach.


Durantula



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PostPosted: 03/09/17 9:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
but the U S has such a talent advantage at the Olympic level they're going to win gold regardless of who's coach.


Which to me is a reason why they can afford to go outside the box and hire some non-big names instead of just picking the established college coaches. But they rarely do.
You mention offense, how about the Drake coach? She has them top 20 in the country with a bunch of under the radar recruits putting up big numbers. How would her system look when you put elite talents in there? This could help boost their resume to get the bigger jobs later on too.


GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 03/09/17 11:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Staley was always the most predictable choice. She has a very, very long history with USA Basketball as a player and coach, and was clearly next in line.

Sure, she'll get a recruiting advantage because her resume will have a big extra credential, but as others have mentioned, she'll lose some recruiting gym time when the SNT is practicing.
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PostPosted: 03/10/17 2:38 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Durantula wrote:
Ay Mate wrote:
You honestly think that Geno coaching the national team has boosted their recruiting? He was getting great recruits long before he ever coached the national team.


I think it has. Now you have to be a winning program too. The elite kids aren't going to flock to Wake Forest if their coach became the USA team coach. Generally yes he has recruited very well but on an individual level you never know which elite player prefers UConn because of the USA Basketball connections that other colleges may not have. It's not like he gets every recruit but I think some recruits like at UConn as the best chance for them to play on the USA team right or wrong. And when he's no longer the USA coach he will still recruit well but I think then Dawn Staley will gain from this.

The only issue to me is because the best players pick the same schools you are really limiting your pool when picking college coaches. There are probably a lot of good coaches out there who aren't household names because they don't get the elite player, but if you gave them a Wilson and Coates they'd be darn good too.


Playing college ball for the Olympic Coach has proven to increase the odds of making the final squad over players playing at a higher level. Because of the "comfortability" factor.Wink I see you and your (unearned) Gold Medal Swin Cash! Because - shucks - Geno loved him some Swin and had the power to choose her to get that medal for sitting on the bench.

I hope Dawn chooses a fave player over a high achieving Husky just to hear the whining of Husky nation. And spreadsheet after spreadsheet proving the Husky player deserved the spot. Laughing



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PostPosted: 03/10/17 6:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Ay Mate wrote:
You honestly think that Geno coaching the national team has boosted their recruiting? He was getting great recruits long before he ever coached the national team.


When Geno was appointed head coach of Team USA in 2009 he had only five national championships and was five years removed from the most recent one. Since his appointment he's won six national championships in eight years and is favored to win again this year. He's gotten an enormous advantage from being head coach of Team USA.


Throw in the comments from Parker and I see it too...saw something similar when Dorrance coached the USWNT (although that was more clear cut to the point I always heard it that the NCAA was investigating because the NT and UNC were becoming one in the same)...not saying suddenly staley will become Geno or geno would become average LOL...doesn't work that way...Geno is still one of the best ever to coach the game...but the fastrack to the NT and the professional advantages that carries...lets just say it cant hurt.

As for school advantage...im crossing the gender line but its one of my fave examples...do you know WHY the dream team is one short from having all the players in the HOF...Coach K...there was one token required slot for a college athlete as a nod to the past teams of amateur players. It went to Laettner over Shaq...something that would have ripples later. While the Wikipedia article is heavy handed (read written by a Dukie)...it was basically coach K being the assistant (also a nod to the college days) if shaq was selected that would have made poor PJ the only person affiliated as a player or coach the lone person not in the Naismith on that team...Laettner ended up a career role player keyword career...playing 10 seasons but he was no shaq (or zo the other runner up)

As for the Isiah Thomas snub controversy...that's a different thread LOL



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 03/10/17 11:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Just a bit of counterpoint: When Tara VanDerveer coached the USA team in 1996 and took a year off, Stanford felt the effects for several years thereafter.

Of course, it's a different day now, but it does impact recruiting because of the time commitment involved.

In general, though, I'd agree that it's a slight advantage -- but potential Olympians have mostly played USA Basketball before going to college and have established a reputation and made connections, so I don't know that they'd worry that much about who the coach is. Not to mention the fact that a junior in high school right now, the prime recruit, is unlikely to be on an Olympic team until after she has played professional basketball for a year or two, which would be 2024 or so.



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 03/10/17 12:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Just a bit of counterpoint: When Tara VanDerveer coached the USA team in 1996 and took a year off, Stanford felt the effects for several years thereafter.

Of course, it's a different day now, but it does impact recruiting because of the time commitment involved.

In general, though, I'd agree that it's a slight advantage -- but potential Olympians have mostly played USA Basketball before going to college and have established a reputation and made connections, so I don't know that they'd worry that much about who the coach is. Not to mention the fact that a junior in high school right now, the prime recruit, is unlikely to be on an Olympic team until after she has played professional basketball for a year or two, which would be 2024 or so.


Unless you go to the school of the coach where you can be on the team while still a student even as All WNBA 1st team players are left home, and how many UConn players got asked to camps and were on exhibition game rosters while still in college?

We're talking about the most elite players. How many of them think "if Dolson can do it, I certainly can too, if I go there I can get onto the USAB National Team.". You only need one or two who are already considering that school to have that hope become the thing that pushes them to commit.

Maybe that's why Geno waited so long for it to be public that he would not be coaching again. Might as well get as many #1 recruits as possible to commit while the Olympic carrot was still theoretically hanging out there.


ClayK



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PostPosted: 03/10/17 1:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

You could be right, but expecting a high school junior, 16 or 17, to be thinking about something that will happen after she gets out of college is giving her a lot more credit than my experience suggests that she deserves.

For example, I don't think many of them grasp how much money they could possibly make if they seriously honed their craft in college. Even a non-WNBA career could generate six figures a year in income for ten years, and as I constantly point out, not too many young women in their 20s are drawing down $150,000 while living in Europe.

So Samantha Smooth, Class of 19, who has yet to nail down her final SAT score, is going to think about her potential spot on the US National Team in 2026 when she decides on college? Especially knowing that the coach recruiting her won't be the head coach then?

And again, almost all of the kids at that level have already played or will play USA Basketball so it's not like they need any special ticket to get evaluated.



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Conway Gamecock



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PostPosted: 03/10/17 1:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Happycappie25 wrote:
pilight wrote:
Ay Mate wrote:
You honestly think that Geno coaching the national team has boosted their recruiting? He was getting great recruits long before he ever coached the national team.


When Geno was appointed head coach of Team USA in 2009 he had only five national championships and was five years removed from the most recent one. Since his appointment he's won six national championships in eight years and is favored to win again this year. He's gotten an enormous advantage from being head coach of Team USA.


Throw in the comments from Parker and I see it too...saw something similar when Dorrance coached the USWNT (although that was more clear cut to the point I always heard it that the NCAA was investigating because the NT and UNC were becoming one in the same)...not saying suddenly staley will become Geno or geno would become average LOL...doesn't work that way...Geno is still one of the best ever to coach the game...but the fastrack to the NT and the professional advantages that carries...lets just say it cant hurt.

As for school advantage...im crossing the gender line but its one of my fave examples...do you know WHY the dream team is one short from having all the players in the HOF...Coach K...there was one token required slot for a college athlete as a nod to the past teams of amateur players. It went to Laettner over Shaq...something that would have ripples later. While the Wikipedia article is heavy handed (read written by a Dukie)...it was basically coach K being the assistant (also a nod to the college days) if shaq was selected that would have made poor PJ the only person affiliated as a player or coach the lone person not in the Naismith on that team...Laettner ended up a career role player keyword career...playing 10 seasons but he was no shaq (or zo the other runner up)

As for the Isiah Thomas snub controversy...that's a different thread LOL


Regarding Laettner, you may be correct in describing whatever influence Coach K had in selecting the player, but you're applying too much hindsight to the sequence of events: that year Laettner was far away the better rounded and more highly decorated college player than O'Neil was. If Shaq had been picked over Christian for the Dream Team, with the passing of time it would have been considered a smart move, but in 1992 it would have caused a media outrage....


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 03/10/17 3:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
You could be right, but expecting a high school junior, 16 or 17, to be thinking about something that will happen after she gets out of college is giving her a lot more credit than my experience suggests that she deserves.

For example, I don't think many of them grasp how much money they could possibly make if they seriously honed their craft in college. Even a non-WNBA career could generate six figures a year in income for ten years, and as I constantly point out, not too many young women in their 20s are drawing down $150,000 while living in Europe.

So Samantha Smooth, Class of 19, who has yet to nail down her final SAT score, is going to think about her potential spot on the US National Team in 2026 when she decides on college? Especially knowing that the coach recruiting her won't be the head coach then?

And again, almost all of the kids at that level have already played or will play USA Basketball so it's not like they need any special ticket to get evaluated.


You deal with them regularly, but my guess is "she can get me onto the Olympic team" is a hell of a lot easier concept to grasp than " I can probably improve my draft position by eight spots if I increase my 3 pt shooting percentage by ten percent." Plus, the former is easy - just sign on the line- while the latter requires lots of continuous work.


Durantula



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PostPosted: 03/10/17 5:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
You could be right, but expecting a high school junior, 16 or 17, to be thinking about something that will happen after she gets out of college is giving her a lot more credit than my experience suggests that she deserves.

For example, I don't think many of them grasp how much money they could possibly make if they seriously honed their craft in college. Even a non-WNBA career could generate six figures a year in income for ten years, and as I constantly point out, not too many young women in their 20s are drawing down $150,000 while living in Europe.

So Samantha Smooth, Class of 19, who has yet to nail down her final SAT score, is going to think about her potential spot on the US National Team in 2026 when she decides on college? Especially knowing that the coach recruiting her won't be the head coach then?

And again, almost all of the kids at that level have already played or will play USA Basketball so it's not like they need any special ticket to get evaluated.


I don't think its that far fetched because the best players get into the USA Basketball system at age 15-16 and from then they dream of continuing on to the 17s, 18s, and the college aged competitions. They see Geno as the coach and think their goals can be reached if they play for him, if not for just the system he runs will give them a leg up over kids who go to other schools with very different styles of play. I mean you ever hear of people thinking that UConn commits at the younger age groups have a leg up in try outs. Not saying its true but there are USA Basketball factors that a kid could consider outside of just making the USA Women's National team when she's just 16. Its about playing for the coach who coaches all these legends of the game. Coach K having Kobe or whoever name drop and say how good of a coach he is will resonate in recruiting. If some US WNT players talk up Staley it helps recruiting.


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PostPosted: 03/10/17 7:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
pilight wrote:
Ay Mate wrote:
You honestly think that Geno coaching the national team has boosted their recruiting? He was getting great recruits long before he ever coached the national team.


When Geno was appointed head coach of Team USA in 2009 he had only five national championships and was five years removed from the most recent one. Since his appointment he's won six national championships in eight years and is favored to win again this year. He's gotten an enormous advantage from being head coach of Team USA.


Are you crediting his '09 and '10 NCs to that gig?




Anyone?



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SCGamecock



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PostPosted: 03/10/17 8:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The only recruiting advantage I see this having for SC is that it gives more legitimacy to Dawn as a coach. Sure, she's now won multiple SEC regular season and tournament titles and in line to win more but to be HC of the Women's National Team is a tip of the cap essentially... I can't see any elite recruit picking SC over UConn, Notre Dame, Baylor or Tennessee just because Dawn is the HC of the Olympic team. Sure, it's going to sound nice when Dawn is promoting herself and her program in a recruit's living room.. but that title itself is not going to be what decides it for a recruit.


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PostPosted: 03/10/17 9:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Conway Gamecock wrote:
Happycappie25 wrote:
pilight wrote:
Ay Mate wrote:
You honestly think that Geno coaching the national team has boosted their recruiting? He was getting great recruits long before he ever coached the national team.


When Geno was appointed head coach of Team USA in 2009 he had only five national championships and was five years removed from the most recent one. Since his appointment he's won six national championships in eight years and is favored to win again this year. He's gotten an enormous advantage from being head coach of Team USA.


Throw in the comments from Parker and I see it too...saw something similar when Dorrance coached the USWNT (although that was more clear cut to the point I always heard it that the NCAA was investigating because the NT and UNC were becoming one in the same)...not saying suddenly staley will become Geno or geno would become average LOL...doesn't work that way...Geno is still one of the best ever to coach the game...but the fastrack to the NT and the professional advantages that carries...lets just say it cant hurt.

As for school advantage...im crossing the gender line but its one of my fave examples...do you know WHY the dream team is one short from having all the players in the HOF...Coach K...there was one token required slot for a college athlete as a nod to the past teams of amateur players. It went to Laettner over Shaq...something that would have ripples later. While the Wikipedia article is heavy handed (read written by a Dukie)...it was basically coach K being the assistant (also a nod to the college days) if shaq was selected that would have made poor PJ the only person affiliated as a player or coach the lone person not in the Naismith on that team...Laettner ended up a career role player keyword career...playing 10 seasons but he was no shaq (or zo the other runner up)

As for the Isiah Thomas snub controversy...that's a different thread LOL


Regarding Laettner, you may be correct in describing whatever influence Coach K had in selecting the player, but you're applying too much hindsight to the sequence of events: that year Laettner was far away the better rounded and more highly decorated college player than O'Neil was. If Shaq had been picked over Christian for the Dream Team, with the passing of time it would have been considered a smart move, but in 1992 it would have caused a media outrage....


wont derail because this is a WBB thread...but I remember (tho I was 12) even then there was talk of Zo or Shaq...what made shaq more interesting was he was drafted before the games, which made the argument more interesting and why there was debate at the time despite the college accolades.



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PostPosted: 03/10/17 10:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Can someone show me a pattern where being appointed the USA head coach has demonstrably and successfully influenced their recruitment? This is not a rhetorical question. Thank you



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PostPosted: 03/10/17 10:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Just a bit of counterpoint: When Tara VanDerveer coached the USA team in 1996 and took a year off, Stanford felt the effects for several years thereafter.

Of course, it's a different day now, but it does impact recruiting because of the time commitment involved.


And Tara was a One-And-Done deal. Some might say her time away might have been a negative, no? And....she didn't go for the next umpteen years, and I doubt had any inclination to even *think* that she'd be able to parlay that into recruiting power.

Geno, otoh, stayed on as UConn coach, and could have touted his laurels to kids like Breanna, Moriah, and even further back: "I'm the Olympic Coach, and (a high % of) my players are Olympians". I can't imagine that DIDN'T happen.

Yeah, as someone else stated....our embarrassment of riches in the Talent Pool kind of makes the choice of US Coach moot regarding skill/experience, but the ramifications for an active college coach could be big. I just think college coaches should be eliminated from consideration. There's enough other, highly qualified people that could do it.



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