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linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012
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 Posted: 01/25/17 3:25 pm ::: |
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| ucbart wrote: |
| myrtle wrote: |
| I'm happy to have David posting on rebbies. I'd be happy if Voepel would as well. I think it's important to have as many different viewpoints as possible. And if people actually know something, so much the better. |
How much does the eye test really play into account? Because against UCONN, Maryland looked pretty damn good. However, they were playing at home and we were blowing them out by 19 before foul truble set in. This could be the Maryland team of 2006 or it could be the Maryland team of 2007/2016.
After that South Carolina/Mississippi State, I don't know who is 2-10 at this point. |
I think this ill be a banner year for complaints about the bracket. I think there could be wailing and gnashing of teeth if some 3 seed has tOSU as their second round opponent. And if the highest seed from the PAC12 to get sent to Stockton is a 3 the Rockies won't block the cries of east coast bias.
This should also be a bracket filled with upsets once the 1st round chaff is winnowed out. There are a lot of teams that have had a huge swing between their best and worst efforts. Tenn is the best example, having beaten the Irish and nearly beaten MSSt while losing to Penn St, Miss & Auburn. The S16 games should be fun to watch.
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justinabina
Joined: 19 May 2014
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| Posted: 01/25/17 3:25 pm ::: |
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| dtsnms wrote: |
You're absolutely right; DTS out. |
I enjoy your posts. I find them informative and useful. I hope that's only out as in not bothering with the antagonists!
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linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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Fighting Artichoke
Joined: 12 Dec 2012
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| Posted: 01/25/17 4:07 pm ::: |
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| dtsnms wrote: |
| You're absolutely right; DTS out. |
NOOOOO!
We need your perspective here. Just try not to let the other posters get under your skin.
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mzonefan
Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Posts: 4878
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
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| Posted: 01/26/17 7:16 am ::: |
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| Fighting Artichoke wrote: |
| dtsnms wrote: |
| You're absolutely right; DTS out. |
NOOOOO!
We need your perspective here. Just try not to let the other posters get under your skin. |
Agreed!
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ikcelaks
Joined: 22 Mar 2016
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| Posted: 01/26/17 8:56 am ::: |
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I don't understand how anyone can blame the selection committee for sending bad two and three seeds against UConn. The last three years, UConn has consistently received one of its toughest games in the Regional Final. The lack of appropriate competition can not be blamed on the match-ups.
2016: def Texas 86-65 (closest game)
2015: def Dayton 91-70 (Only Final vs ND closer)
2014: def Texas A&M 69-54 (closest game)
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 12537
Location: Dallas , Texas
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| Posted: 01/26/17 10:37 am ::: |
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| ikcelaks wrote: |
I don't understand how anyone can blame the selection committee for sending bad two and three seeds against UConn. The last three years, UConn has consistently received one of its toughest games in the Regional Final. The lack of appropriate competition can not be blamed on the match-ups.
2016: def Texas 86-65 (closest game)
2015: def Dayton 91-70 (Only Final vs ND closer)
2014: def Texas A&M 69-54 (closest game) |
You have to also factor in the strength of those teams during those years and not now either. Also if you could list the other teams during those years who were also ranked the same Seed and compare who were the strongest vs the weakest during that specific season .
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 01/26/17 11:54 am ::: |
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Those weren't the two seeds. aTm wasn't the 2 seed in UConn's bracket in 2014, Duke was. The other three 2s were Baylor, WVU and Stanford who were ranked 5, 6 and 7 at the time. Duke was ranked 9. Duke lost to DePaul in the second round.
aTm, UConn's ultimate Regional opponent, was the three seed and was ranked 15th going into the tournament. The other three 3 seeds were ranked 4, 10, and 14.
2014 is actually an excellent example of the typical UConn cakewalk to the final four. The selection committee gave them the weakest 2 and 3 seeds, and their four actual path-to-Nashville opponents' pre-tournament rankings were unranked, unranked, unranked, 15th ranked. Hell of a gauntlet the committee handed 'em there. 
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SpaceJunkie
Joined: 10 Sep 2012
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Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: 01/26/17 12:19 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
Those weren't the two seeds. aTm wasn't the 2 seed in UConn's bracket in 2014, Duke was. The other three 2s were Baylor, WVU and Stanford who were ranked 5, 6 and 7 at the time. Duke was ranked 9. Duke lost to DePaul in the second round.
aTm, UConn's ultimate Regional opponent, was the three seed and was ranked 15th going into the tournament. The other three 3 seeds were ranked 4, 10, and 14.
2014 is actually an excellent example of the typical UConn cakewalk to the final four. The selection committee gave them the weakest 2 and 3 seeds, and their four actual path-to-Nashville opponents' pre-tournament rankings were unranked, unranked, unranked, 15th ranked. Hell of a gauntlet the committee handed 'em there. |
The #1 overall seed is supposed to get the weakest #2, etc in a fair bracket. In pretty much every sport's playoffs the top seed has the "easiest" road to the championship. Also the poll rankings aren't the rankings the committee has given to the teams.
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cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 12851
Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
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| Posted: 01/26/17 2:06 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
Those weren't the two seeds. aTm wasn't the 2 seed in UConn's bracket in 2014, Duke was. The other three 2s were Baylor, WVU and Stanford who were ranked 5, 6 and 7 at the time. Duke was ranked 9. Duke lost to DePaul in the second round.
aTm, UConn's ultimate Regional opponent, was the three seed and was ranked 15th going into the tournament. The other three 3 seeds were ranked 4, 10, and 14.
2014 is actually an excellent example of the typical UConn cakewalk to the final four. The selection committee gave them the weakest 2 and 3 seeds, and their four actual path-to-Nashville opponents' pre-tournament rankings were unranked, unranked, unranked, 15th ranked. Hell of a gauntlet the committee handed 'em there. |
God I love this. I truly, truly do.
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Last edited by cthskzfn on 01/26/17 5:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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greg5222
Joined: 03 May 2006
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| Posted: 01/26/17 2:18 pm ::: |
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| dtsnms wrote: |
| Shades wrote: |
| dtsnms wrote: |
Then you refer to me as "expert media" in quotes so as to try to belittle what I do.
Why the mods put up with your repeated crap is beyond me, but really, it gets old, don't you think?
Can't you comment on a topic without trying to pat yourself on the back and trying to troll people you don't like? |
"Crappy" and "lousy" are your mischaracterations, not mine. Mine was a mature analysis. You aren't getting angry at anybody else saying that McGuff ain't all that. I wonder why?
I feel your belitting complaint about me is exactly what you're doing to me. How else do you explain when you jump on my opinions and ask "what WNBA professionals told you this?", like what you did with my opinion on Kelsey Plum? You looked down your nose about the opinion about Copper, because it didn't match your boy Megdal's opinion, and called Copper this year's "Rebkell superstar" in a mocking way as in "what do you guys know, you're just amateurs on a little messageboard". Well, it turns out #7 is a lot better than #30. That shows that even though the media have all these advantages and they should be better at analysis and prognostication, it's not always the case, so quit acting like it's always the case.
I think you do a great job on the podcasts and interviews. I don't think anybody's denied that. So I don't understand why you would even want to get wrapped up in the messageboard banter. Why do you want the image of someone who gets angry at somebody's opinion on the messageboard? It's not good PR for you. Can you imagine Mechelle Voepel or anybody else like her doing what you're doing on the messageboard? I really can't. Nobody else does. Just you.
Here's Mechelle Voepel's view on messageboards:
I love Mechelle Voepel. It's not because she's "right all the time" because nobody's right all the time. She's obviously smart and has figured out how to handle herself in the public eye. That's a big part of the reason she's at the level she's at. Media people looking to take that next step in their career could learn a lot from Mechelle Voepel. |
You're absolutely right; DTS out. |
Good Dave. Don't even bother.
PEACE & LOVE GO TERPS!!!!!
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linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012
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| Posted: 01/26/17 3:10 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
Those weren't the two seeds. aTm wasn't the 2 seed in UConn's bracket in 2014, Duke was. The other three 2s were Baylor, WVU and Stanford who were ranked 5, 6 and 7 at the time. Duke was ranked 9. Duke lost to DePaul in the second round.
aTm, UConn's ultimate Regional opponent, was the three seed and was ranked 15th going into the tournament. The other three 3 seeds were ranked 4, 10, and 14.
2014 is actually an excellent example of the typical UConn cakewalk to the final four. The selection committee gave them the weakest 2 and 3 seeds, and their four actual path-to-Nashville opponents' pre-tournament rankings were unranked, unranked, unranked, 15th ranked. Hell of a gauntlet the committee handed 'em there. |
Art, can you name one 1 seed who in the history of the 64 team tournament faced a ranked team in the first 2 rounds? Their first game is against a 16 seed and the second against the winner of the 8-9 game. I can't remember a ranked team being seeded 8th or 9th. can you?
And as far as a cakewalk, I'll agree that they beat those teams rather convincingly, but there's no way to know how those teams would have done in the other regions. Dayton, the way they were shooting 3's in the tournament, could have ended up in the final four if they had been placed in different region. Whenever the seeding is based on a season-long resume there are always going to be teams that come alive in March. Last year Tenn was a perfect example of that. This year it could be tOSU.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 01/26/17 4:17 pm ::: |
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| linkster wrote: |
| Art, can you name one 1 seed who in the history of the 64 team tournament faced a ranked team in the first 2 rounds? Their first game is against a 16 seed and the second against the winner of the 8-9 game. I can't remember a ranked team being seeded 8th or 9th. can you? |
Actually, it happens all the time. Starting in 1994, the first year of the 64 team tournament...
In 1994 #15 Kansas got a 9 seed, #18 Washington got an 8 seed, #19 Florida International got an 8 seed, and #21 Boise State got a 9 seed
Kansas lost in the second round to #1 seed Penn State
Washington lost in the second round to #1 seed Purdue
In 1995 #25 Old Dominion got a 9 seed
In 1997 Michigan State got an 8 seed
They lost in the second round to #1 seed North Carolina
In 1998 #15 Western Kentucky got an 8 seed, #19 Stephen F Austin got a 9 seed, and #20 Hawaii got a 9 seed
Western Kentucky lost in the second round to #1 seed Tennessee
In 1999 #18 Penn State got an 8 seed and #20 Virginia got a 9 seed
Penn State lost in the second round to Louisiana Tech
In 2000 #21 Arizona got an 8 seed
They lost in the second round to #1 seed Tennessee
In 2001 #23 Baylor got an 8 seed
In 2003 #21 Green Bay got an 8 seed
They lost in the second round to #1 seed LSU
In 2004 #23 Michigan State got an 8 seed
They lost in the second round to #1 seed Texas
In 2006 #25 Minnesota got an 8 seed
In 2007 #21 Green Bay got a 9 seed
They lost in the second round to #1 seed Connecticut
In 2008 #18 Utah got an 8 seed
In 2009 #22 Florida got an 8 seed
They lost in the second round to #1 seed Connecticut
In 2010 #22 UCLA got an 8 seed
They lost in the second round to #1 seed Nebraska
In 2011 #24 Marquette got an 8 seed
They lost in the second round to #1 seed Tennessee
In 2012 #16 Ohio State got an 8 seed and #24 Princeton got a 9 seed
In 2013 #25 Florida State got an 8 seed
They lost in the second round to #1 seed Baylor
In 2015 #13 Princeton got an 8 seed and #24 Seton Hall got a 9 seed
Princeton lost in the second round to #1 seed Maryland
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ArtBest23
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pilight
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linkster
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ArtBest23
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linkster
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patsweetpat
Joined: 14 Jul 2010
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| Posted: 01/26/17 11:03 pm ::: |
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| patsweetpat wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| patsweetpat wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| UCLA surprised me a bit. Only one top 25 win, which is balanced out by the loss to Washington State. |
That top 25 win was against the #7 RPI team.
Who would you switch UCLA out for? |
The numbers I used above suggest Virginia Tech should get the last #4 spot. |
The Hokies are having a good year. Their best win (Tennessee, RPI #16) isn't as good as UCLA's best win (Oregon State, RPI #7). But their worst loss (at Miami, RPI #21) wasn't as bad as UCLA's worst loss (at Washington State, RPI #64). Losing their most recent two games by 25 and 28 points (respectively) probably didn't help VaTech's cause. But assuming that was a momentary blip and that Virginia Tech will quickly revert to prior form, I could imagine the Bruins and Hokies flip-flopping come tourney selection time (depending on how UCLA performs going forward, of course).
Anyway, still lots of basketball to be played, of course. |
Since this VaTech conversation, there have been... developments.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 01/26/17 11:22 pm ::: |
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| patsweetpat wrote: |
Since this VaTech conversation, there have been... developments. |
You'll note that when I replied to you with -
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
The Hokies are having a great year, but don't overestimate what "prior form" actually represents. Four games ago, before the Miami game, I wrote:
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
VaTech is undefeated, but their schedule has been pretty awful (RPI SOS is 108, Nonconf SOS is 174). Miami almost certainly presents the best pair of guards they have faced so far in Motley and Thomas.
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Since then, they've had to face, and lost to, Miami, Duke and FSU. They still have to play Syracuse, ND, Louisville, NCSt and Miami again.
I expect UCLA will be comfortably ahead of VaTech by selection day. |
I wasn't even assuming a thrashing by UVA. I think VaTech will be worrying about making the tournament, not about being seeded ahead of UCLA.
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patsweetpat
Joined: 14 Jul 2010
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| Posted: 01/26/17 11:26 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| patsweetpat wrote: |
Since this VaTech conversation, there have been... developments. |
You'll note that when I replied to you with -
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
The Hokies are having a great year, but don't overestimate what "prior form" actually represents. Four games ago, before the Miami game, I wrote:
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
VaTech is undefeated, but their schedule has been pretty awful (RPI SOS is 108, Nonconf SOS is 174). Miami almost certainly presents the best pair of guards they have faced so far in Motley and Thomas.
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Since then, they've had to face, and lost to, Miami, Duke and FSU. They still have to play Syracuse, ND, Louisville, NCSt and Miami again.
I expect UCLA will be comfortably ahead of VaTech by selection day. |
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You did. It's true.
Anyway, the Bruins have work to do themselves. Still a big chunk of regular season left.
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WNBA 09
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Fighting Artichoke
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linkster
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| Posted: 01/27/17 12:08 pm ::: |
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As far as the siting of the regionals, I agree that UConn gets an advantage. I can remeber on the men's side that it seemed that either Greensboro or Raleigh was an annual site for their regionals and that either Duke or UNC got that advantage while the UConn men seemed to be sent out west a lot. That's why I am in favor of holding all the regionals in one city. My choice is Las Vegas.
And as far as who gets put in UConn's region, I'd like to read some specifics as to who exactly would have given UConn a tougher time in the last 3 years. And remember that as the top 1 seed the best team that in fairness can be put against them would be the 8th & 9th seeded teams. Last year MSSt was better than how they played CT and the year before the same could be said of Texas. And as far as having the crowd behind them, I think UConn showed this year that a sold out arena on the road doesn't rattle them.
I think that the perception that UConn gets an otherwise weak region is more about the fact that UConn plays better in big games than most other elite teams, many of whom simply play poorly in the big spotlight. UConn has played stinker games in the past but in recent years they have played like a fine-tuned machine while many of their opponents have had that deer in the headlights look.
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