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myt



Joined: 29 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: 10/24/16 9:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WfanFrJmp wrote:
I would love to see Carson back. Indeed she was critical to LA's success this year and it would be awesome to see her full game back and make anyone who leaves her open PAY!!!

Soooo, apparently both Kristi and Beard are free agents this year. They announced it during the celebration today. I was like, "Noooooooo!!!" The crowd chanted for their return while Brian put both of them on the spot to ask them back. I don't see KT leaving but I do wonder about Beard because of her tenure in the league (13 years). I really don't want her retire because I think we all recognize that she was important both on and off the court, but after finally getting a ring, I could definitely understand. I get that it was a grind for her to get healthy again (when the docs said she wouldn't) and I'm suspect she is considering whether the process is something she feels she wants to continue. As Brian said, I hope she will make it 14 years. We shall see. Also, I didn't know this but CP essentially recruited KT. KT was playing for Chicago but didn't get in the game against LA so when the players were going through and high fiving at the end, CP said that LA would love to have her and the seed was planted! Who knew?!! Laughing


Thanks for the celebration summary Very Happy

Although it was lucky 13 for AB, I too hope she and KT come back to defend their championship. They have earned the chance to do so Cool

Lil Mopey has a lot to smile about so I hope she stays! Razz

Toler has got work to do! Cool



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ChicagoAnnie



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PostPosted: 10/24/16 9:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

basketballologist wrote:
Would love to see Cambage in L.A. somehow. What would it take for the Sparks and the Wings to make a blockbuster trade for this to happen


if she who will not be namedd be willing to come off the bench, sure. but, i would not give up the house for her.


ChicagoAnnie



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PostPosted: 10/24/16 9:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Michelle89 wrote:
myrtle wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:
myrtle wrote:
I've thought all year that Dabovic should be playing SF. Maybe they can work her in there instead.

She doesn't have a good enough handle to play PG...


I dont agree. She did fine last season with the Sparks at the point and overseas and on the Serbian team. But to me she looked insecure in the few minutes that she got this season and that's my whole point with her. Last season when she got consistent minutes from Agler she played with confidence and really worked well with players and certainly with Parker.
She needs consistency and she didnt have that this season.

But the advantage of her is that she can play all 3 perimeter positions but to me it looked like Agler didnt want any of that. Almost every time she and Gray were together on the floor he had Dabovic running the point. Pointing to her to bring the ball up.


And teams learned that if you double team her, she coughs up the ball...I agree if they don't double her on the way up the court, she does ok in setting up and running the team. But that's a big if. The scouting reports get a whiff of blood and they go for it.


Why can teams double her and leave others that open? Because Toliver is often on the bench when she is in (this was not often the case last season) and they dont have to worry about Beard/Carson and Gray shooting from the perimeter.

Quote:
Ana Dabovic- cannot shoot, nor dribble under pressure...

She is probably one of the Sparks best shooters (after Toliver) She is the reason that Serbia won a bronze medal at the olympics and why they won the European championship Laughing She scored 24 pts against USA a couple years ago. Yes she is worthless Rolling Eyes

I would have her with the Storm anyday of the week..


Sure, you want to take that 37% FG, and 16% 3PT% go right ahead.... Laughing
Maybe, she warms up as the game goes on?


SportzJunky



Joined: 09 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: 10/25/16 8:20 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Starting: Gray (PG), Toliver (SG), Beard (SF) Nneka, Parker
Bench: PG (Draft Pick), Williams (SG), Carson (SF), Gruda, Lavendar, Tolo

There are some good PGs coming out this year with YOUTH and potential. I think because LA only has one true PG they should go after a PG first (a young one will have time to mature and not feel the pressure to make an instant impact because Gray is there) and then another SF. With Tolo back and Lavendar, they have the size when they need it for bigger Centers so I would not be pressed to get another Center. When Brian had to put in Dabovic at the Point, it was painful to watch. Besides Gray, LA plays PG by committee, why do that when they can draft another legit PG? One thing teams need to keep in mind is that experience is great but all teams need youth (not just youth but youth with Potential). LA is in a great spot right now because they have a high pick with no need to immediate impact. This is a prime recipe for recruiting talented youth for the future.

Draft PGs: Banham, Lindsay Allen, Alexis Jones, Lexi Brown (possibly)

I can see all of these guards making a difference on a team one day.



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FollowtheCardinalRule



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PostPosted: 10/25/16 8:46 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Banham would be great if she was still in college.


Michelle89



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PostPosted: 10/25/16 4:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ChicagoAnnie wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:
myrtle wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:
myrtle wrote:
I've thought all year that Dabovic should be playing SF. Maybe they can work her in there instead.

She doesn't have a good enough handle to play PG...


I dont agree. She did fine last season with the Sparks at the point and overseas and on the Serbian team. But to me she looked insecure in the few minutes that she got this season and that's my whole point with her. Last season when she got consistent minutes from Agler she played with confidence and really worked well with players and certainly with Parker.
She needs consistency and she didnt have that this season.

But the advantage of her is that she can play all 3 perimeter positions but to me it looked like Agler didnt want any of that. Almost every time she and Gray were together on the floor he had Dabovic running the point. Pointing to her to bring the ball up.


And teams learned that if you double team her, she coughs up the ball...I agree if they don't double her on the way up the court, she does ok in setting up and running the team. But that's a big if. The scouting reports get a whiff of blood and they go for it.


Why can teams double her and leave others that open? Because Toliver is often on the bench when she is in (this was not often the case last season) and they dont have to worry about Beard/Carson and Gray shooting from the perimeter.

Quote:
Ana Dabovic- cannot shoot, nor dribble under pressure...

She is probably one of the Sparks best shooters (after Toliver) She is the reason that Serbia won a bronze medal at the olympics and why they won the European championship Laughing She scored 24 pts against USA a couple years ago. Yes she is worthless Rolling Eyes

I would have her with the Storm anyday of the week..


Sure, you want to take that 37% FG, and 16% 3PT% go right ahead.... Laughing
Maybe, she warms up as the game goes on?


10 minutes per game is not a lot of minutes especially for the kind of player that she is



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WfanFrJmp



Joined: 24 May 2016
Posts: 506



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PostPosted: 10/25/16 8:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myt wrote:
WfanFrJmp wrote:
I would love to see Carson back. Indeed she was critical to LA's success this year and it would be awesome to see her full game back and make anyone who leaves her open PAY!!!

Soooo, apparently both Kristi and Beard are free agents this year. They announced it during the celebration today. I was like, "Noooooooo!!!" The crowd chanted for their return while Brian put both of them on the spot to ask them back. I don't see KT leaving but I do wonder about Beard because of her tenure in the league (13 years). I really don't want her retire because I think we all recognize that she was important both on and off the court, but after finally getting a ring, I could definitely understand. I get that it was a grind for her to get healthy again (when the docs said she wouldn't) and I'm suspect she is considering whether the process is something she feels she wants to continue. As Brian said, I hope she will make it 14 years. We shall see. Also, I didn't know this but CP essentially recruited KT. KT was playing for Chicago but didn't get in the game against LA so when the players were going through and high fiving at the end, CP said that LA would love to have her and the seed was planted! Who knew?!! Laughing


Thanks for the celebration summary Very Happy

Although it was lucky 13 for AB, I too hope she and KT come back to defend their championship. They have earned the chance to do so Cool

Lil Mopey has a lot to smile about so I hope she stays! Razz

Toler has got work to do! Cool


You're welcome! I agree! Toler has her work cut out for her.

FYI, this account has some of the celebration footage: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtLLK53_dlhQ2ASDvv8HDcQ


myt



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PostPosted: 10/25/16 11:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WfanFrJmp wrote:

FYI, this account has some of the celebration footage: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtLLK53_dlhQ2ASDvv8HDcQ



Thanks so much! Cool



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WfanFrJmp



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PostPosted: 10/26/16 5:25 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myt wrote:
WfanFrJmp wrote:

FYI, this account has some of the celebration footage: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtLLK53_dlhQ2ASDvv8HDcQ



Thanks so much! Cool


Here is another!: http://womenshoopsworld.com/2016/10/25/sparks-celebrate-2016-championship-in-style/

Btw, so the word is that Angel and Nneka will be playing together in Russia. Let me just say that I like what Atlanta is starting to build and it will be interesting to what moves they make in the off season, but I know Angel wants her ring (of course, he presence is no guarantee). She truly is one of the game's most athletic players and that J has been looking good as of late. I know the 'ship hunting is unpopular but it is definitely part of sports..Would we want to see Angel suit up for LA?


myt



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PostPosted: 10/26/16 9:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WfanFrJmp wrote:
myt wrote:
WfanFrJmp wrote:

FYI, this account has some of the celebration footage: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtLLK53_dlhQ2ASDvv8HDcQ



Thanks so much! Cool


Here is another!: http://womenshoopsworld.com/2016/10/25/sparks-celebrate-2016-championship-in-style/

Btw, so the word is that Angel and Nneka will be playing together in Russia. Let me just say that I like what Atlanta is starting to build and it will be interesting to what moves they make in the off season, but I know Angel wants her ring (of course, he presence is no guarantee). She truly is one of the game's most athletic players and that J has been looking good as of late. I know the 'ship hunting is unpopular but it is definitely part of sports..Would we want to see Angel suit up for LA?


Thanks for the link Very Happy

With regards to Angel, it really depends on the Sparks resigning KT & AB.

I think Richyyy can share if the Sparks have the cap to even consider making the move.



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ima say this only once, and I'm never gonna say it again. Parker's damn good.
WfanFrJmp



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PostPosted: 10/27/16 5:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myt wrote:
WfanFrJmp wrote:
myt wrote:
WfanFrJmp wrote:

FYI, this account has some of the celebration footage: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtLLK53_dlhQ2ASDvv8HDcQ



Thanks so much! Cool


Here is another!: http://womenshoopsworld.com/2016/10/25/sparks-celebrate-2016-championship-in-style/

Btw, so the word is that Angel and Nneka will be playing together in Russia. Let me just say that I like what Atlanta is starting to build and it will be interesting to what moves they make in the off season, but I know Angel wants her ring (of course, he presence is no guarantee). She truly is one of the game's most athletic players and that J has been looking good as of late. I know the 'ship hunting is unpopular but it is definitely part of sports..Would we want to see Angel suit up for LA?


Thanks for the link Very Happy

With regards to Angel, it really depends on the Sparks resigning KT & AB.

I think Richyyy can share if the Sparks have the cap to even consider making the move.


I hear you. I'm thinking (well at least hoping) KT will be back but the Angel idea was to soften the blow of AB retiring. I really, REALLLLLY hope AB comes back and know it would be pretty hard to get Angel because she IS Atlanta bball. We shall see!!


Richyyy



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PostPosted: 10/27/16 8:29 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myt wrote:
I think Richyyy can share if the Sparks have the cap to even consider making the move.

LA have so many free agents and unknowns that it's hard to put a number on exactly what they could do. And obviously, if they were theoretically acquiring someone like McCoughtry, there'd probably be significant assets going back the other way.



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jap



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PostPosted: 10/27/16 8:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WfanFrJmp wrote:
Here is another!: http://womenshoopsworld.com/2016/10/25/sparks-celebrate-2016-championship-in-style/

Btw, so the word is that Angel and Nneka will be playing together in Russia. Let me just say that I like what Atlanta is starting to build and it will be interesting to what moves they make in the off season, but I know Angel wants her ring (of course, he presence is no guarantee). She truly is one of the game's most athletic players and that J has been looking good as of late. I know the 'ship hunting is unpopular but it is definitely part of sports..Would we want to see Angel suit up for LA?


The Dark Angel in the Land of LaLa? Does Angel still have her invisible friend, Lori Ann, or has married life cured that psychosis? Wink

Can we handle Angel's salary with our salary cap, . . . along with that of Candace, Nneka, Kristi, Jantel, Alana, and Essence, or will somebody (or somebodies) have to leave? We really need some rookies and solid role players to keep the salary cap in check.

I know you are proposing Angel as a replacement for a possibly departing Alana. Although Angel racks up a good number of steals, she isn't quite the defender Alana is. However, she is a primetime offensive punch! and will cost mucho dinero!!! Angel will have to buy into Brian's program, but she has great respect for Candace and should follow CP3's lead.

Do we get to steal Tiffany Hayes or Meighan Simmons too? Meighan is now carrying 140 pounds!?! Meighan has been eating her Wheaties!!!



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Last edited by jap on 10/30/16 5:28 am; edited 1 time in total
Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: 10/27/16 9:39 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

All this McCoughtry and Cambage talk is odd to me. You finally find a championship formula and now you want to mess with it. The Sparks are going to be even stronger next year without doing anything really. Things might level out slightly with that loss of hunger that will occur.



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WfanFrJmp



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PostPosted: 10/27/16 12:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jap wrote:
WfanFrJmp wrote:
Here is another!: http://womenshoopsworld.com/2016/10/25/sparks-celebrate-2016-championship-in-style/

Btw, so the word is that Angel and Nneka will be playing together in Russia. Let me just say that I like what Atlanta is starting to build and it will be interesting to what moves they make in the off season, but I know Angel wants her ring (of course, he presence is no guarantee). She truly is one of the game's most athletic players and that J has been looking good as of late. I know the 'ship hunting is unpopular but it is definitely part of sports..Would we want to see Angel suit up for LA?


The Dark Angel in the Land of LaLa? Does Angel still have her invisible friend, Lori Ann, or has married life cured that psychosis? Wink

Can we handle Angel's salary with our salary cap, . . . along with that of Candace, Nneka, Kristi, Jantel, Alana, and Essence, or will somebody (or somebodies) have to leave? We really need some rookies and solid role players to keep the salary cap in check.

I know you are proposing Angel as a replacement for a possibly departing Alana. Although Angel racks up a good number of steals, she isn';t quite the defender Alana is. However, she is a primetime offensive punch! and will cost mucho dinero!!! Angel will have top buy into Brian's program, but she has great respect for Candace and should follow her lead.

Do we get to steal Tiffany Hayes or Meighan Simmons too? Meighan is now 140 pounds!?! Meighan has been eating her Wheaties!!!


Laughing To this whole thing!! I'm thinking Lori Ann is chillin' these days and I hear you about the defense vs. offense challenge with her. I definitely want see Meighan find a good fit and fully get her game going, but I would love for them to get Tiph! She slashes (and falls) like nobody else! Seriously, I do like the idea of a guard who aggressively gets to the bucket and can hit the three. Hopefully Williams is healthy and ready to fill that role.

Shades, I really don't want to mess with the roster at all but Beard retiring may be a real possibility, you know? I love her leadership and the chemistry the team built this year. I only want it to get better and stronger and don't know how well these players will fit personality wise or if they will buy in to the system... fine maybe I'll stop speculating and hope for the best *sigh* Laughing

Nice interview: http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=17893438

View of a Championship season:
http://womenshoopsworld.com/2016/10/27/view-of-a-championship-season-from-behind-the-voice-recorder/#comment-6054


zune69



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PostPosted: 10/28/16 8:44 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Would not be shocked if Agler acquired O'Hea or Stricklen this offseason


Shades



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PostPosted: 10/28/16 11:07 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
Would not be shocked if Agler acquired O'Hea or Stricklen this offseason


They both fall in the category of not worth the money the are supposed to be making but may be worthwhile if they accept the vet minimum or thereabouts.

Why invest money in players he ultimately won't use. He's as bad if not worse than Reeve. At least Reeve is learning about minute management.



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zune69



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PostPosted: 10/28/16 11:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Would not be shocked if Agler acquired O'Hea or Stricklen this offseason


They both fall in the category of not worth the money the are supposed to be making but may be worthwhile if they accept the vet minimum or thereabouts.

Why invest money in players he ultimately won't use. He's as bad if not worse than Reeve. At least Reeve is learning about minute management.


Both players have a history with Agler.Stricklen shot 38% from 3 in her last season with seattle.O'Hea shot 40% from 3 in her only season playing for Agler.A catch and shoot 3 point specialist would really make LA's offense more potent than it already is.Carson nearly cost them the championship with all of the bricks she was throwing up at the basket.O'Hea/Stricklen would also provide good size/length at the SF position.

But as you pointed out,only for a salary in the vet minimum range.


Shades



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PostPosted: 10/28/16 12:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think Stricklen is a reminder of a bad time for Agler.

He traded Cash (when she was still useful and part of the championship formula) & Willingham for CHI's second round pick in 2012. Do you think he did that because he was super eager to get Stricklen? Only if you're super naive.

You see, Agler figured out that all three of the Three to See were eligible to enter the draft early, so the odds were good that he'd have an elite player headed his way with that #2 pick. He rolled the dice and they came up snake-eyes. What is Stricklen, maybe a half a step above Liston with the #2 pick? He lost and he lost big time. Hmm, he could have had Glory Johnson or Shenise Johnson, but I'm sure your love of Agler will shine a good light on that misstep. But yeah, I'm sure Agler just loves Stricklen. He should trade #4 in 2017 or his first rounder in 2018 for that good luck charm. Smile

I think he'll continue to scout and recruit foreign players to fill in the roster.



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zune69



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PostPosted: 10/28/16 2:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

@ shades,

Agler doesn't get a total pass from me.He's made some questionable trades going back to his coaching days in minnesota(Betty Lennox),and don't get me started on the long list of forgettable draft picks(Hawkins,Poppens).But that hasn't stopped him from becoming an elite head coach.Agler is a great teacher of the game.He taught Katie Smith how to play defense,helped turn A.Clark into a solid rotation player,and built up Gray's confidence to the point where she was outplaying L.Whalen in the wnba finals.Agler does a great job of maximizing his talent(made playoffs without Bird & Jackson).Another thing I love about Agler is that he holds his star players accountable,unlike some head coaches.


I also want to acknowledge Penny Toler.I've crucified her over the years.So it's only fair that I give Penny her props for winning her 3rd championship as the sparks General Manager.Trading Phillips put LA in position to acquire C.Gray.Much respect to Toler.


WfanFrJmp



Joined: 24 May 2016
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PostPosted: 10/31/16 4:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nice CP interview with JJ Redick: https://art19.com/shows/vertical-jj-redick/episodes/a53ac6c7-0d10-436e-b735-7fcd7c017877

#ShoutOutToTipHayes


myt



Joined: 29 Nov 2007
Posts: 3923
Location: California


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PostPosted: 10/31/16 10:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WfanFrJmp wrote:
Nice CP interview with JJ Redick: https://art19.com/shows/vertical-jj-redick/episodes/a53ac6c7-0d10-436e-b735-7fcd7c017877

#ShoutOutToTipHayes



This was a really good interview. Thank you for sharing! Cool



_________________
SuziQ wrote:
ima say this only once, and I'm never gonna say it again. Parker's damn good.
myt



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PostPosted: 10/31/16 10:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
@ shades,

I also want to acknowledge Penny Toler.I've crucified her over the years.So it's only fair that I give Penny her props for winning her 3rd championship as the sparks General Manager.Trading Phillips put LA in position to acquire C.Gray.Much respect to Toler.



X _________________ x


There were many seasons we begged Toler to get the right pieces. She got it done! Cool

No pressure but Now its time to reload and repeat Razz



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SuziQ wrote:
ima say this only once, and I'm never gonna say it again. Parker's damn good.
WfanFrJmp



Joined: 24 May 2016
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PostPosted: 11/05/16 2:15 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Picking up where they left off:

Nneka: https://twitter.com/CoachRookie/status/794277816347062272

Lav: https://twitter.com/WNBAOverseas/status/794220323642150912

Gruda: https://twitter.com/WNBAOverseas/status/794219283467341824

Hopefully, we can get Gruda more integrated next season. Her and Lav should bring back some nice high-low chemistry!


jap



Joined: 01 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: 11/06/16 12:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myt wrote:
zune69 wrote:
@ shades,

I also want to acknowledge Penny Toler.I've crucified her over the years.So it's only fair that I give Penny her props for winning her 3rd championship as the sparks General Manager.Trading Phillips put LA in position to acquire C.Gray.Much respect to Toler.



X _________________ x


There were many seasons we begged Toler to get the right pieces. She got it done! Cool

No pressure but Now its time to reload and repeat Razz


Penny tends to get whoever her coaches suggest she gets. So her choices tend to reflect her coaches talent appraisal skills. Brian can recognize talent, especially when it has already translated to the professional ranks. For example, he sees Chelsea as a young Sue Bird. Together Brian & Penny should keep the U.S.S. Sparks constantly renovated and in first class shape.



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J A P


Last edited by jap on 11/20/16 2:52 am; edited 1 time in total
hangtyme24



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PostPosted: 11/20/16 12:53 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If we don't bring back Wauters and Dublevic would we be able to afford someone like Camille Little?

Toliver/Gray
Beard/Williams
Carson/Dabovic
Parker/Little
Ogwumike/Lavender

Plus our #4 pick.



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jap



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PostPosted: 11/20/16 2:51 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

hangtyme24 wrote:
If we don't bring back Wauters and Dublevic would we be able to afford someone like Camille Little?

Toliver/Gray
Beard/Williams
Carson/Dabovic
Parker/Little
Ogwumike/Lavender

Plus our #4 pick.


Isn't Marianna Tolo interested in rejoining the party? She may not be a big scoring threat, but she plays defense well and converts dirty points.



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Last edited by jap on 11/20/16 7:43 am; edited 1 time in total
WfanFrJmp



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PostPosted: 11/20/16 7:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm wondering about Tolo too. She fit in pretty nicely until she got injured...
The team seemed a little deflated after that happened and I would love for them to get a true 5 that Coach would play Razz

Perhaps, this tweet provides some indication that they still consider her a part of the team:

https://twitter.com/LA_Sparks/status/798594176103239680

Of course, verification by staff before posting has neeever been a WNBA strong point! Laughing

I really like Little and never thought of her for the Sparks. Apparently she is playing in China either with or instead of CP (I'm confused about what is happening over there). At any rate, what made you think of her on the squad, hangtyme24? I love her toughness and she seems to be a great team mate and leader.

I do wonder if her and Lav may are a bit redundant...you know? I think she is a better defender but both are bigs with face up/mid range game. Lav is basically automatic with hers and Little can hit the 3..hmmm. This is definitely an interesting thought, for sure.


toad455



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PostPosted: 11/20/16 9:09 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Tolo could replace Gruda at backing up the 4 spot. Then bring in a younger post as the 5th post option(Hamson?).

PG: Toliver/Gray
SG: Beard/Williams/Dabovic
SF: Carson/draft pick
PF: Parker/Tolo
C: Ogwumike/Lavender/Hamson



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PostPosted: 11/20/16 9:36 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Tolo could replace Gruda at backing up the 4 spot. Then bring in a younger post as the 5th post option(Hamson?).

PG: Toliver/Gray
SG: Beard/Williams/Dabovic
SF: Carson/draft pick
PF: Parker/Tolo
C: Ogwumike/Lavender/Hamson


This is all assuming Alana comes back, which isn't a certainty. I want her back for at least one more season, but only she can decide whether her body, mind, & spirit have had enough.



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PostPosted: 11/20/16 1:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Tolo could replace Gruda at backing up the 4 spot. Then bring in a younger post as the 5th post option(Hamson?).

PG: Toliver/Gray
SG: Beard/Williams/Dabovic
SF: Carson/draft pick
PF: Parker/Tolo
C: Ogwumike/Lavender/Hamson


Tolo is a true center while Lavender is a true PF..



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PostPosted: 11/20/16 2:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Michelle89 wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Tolo could replace Gruda at backing up the 4 spot. Then bring in a younger post as the 5th post option(Hamson?).

PG: Toliver/Gray
SG: Beard/Williams/Dabovic
SF: Carson/draft pick
PF: Parker/Tolo
C: Ogwumike/Lavender/Hamson


Tolo is a true center while Lavender is a true PF..


I would consider Lavender more of a center than Parker.



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PostPosted: 11/20/16 8:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WfanFrJmp wrote:
I'm wondering about Tolo too. She fit in pretty nicely until she got injured...
The team seemed a little deflated after that happened and I would love for them to get a true 5 that Coach would play Razz

Perhaps, this tweet provides some indication that they still consider her a part of the team:

https://twitter.com/LA_Sparks/status/798594176103239680

Of course, verification by staff before posting has neeever been a WNBA strong point! Laughing

I really like Little and never thought of her for the Sparks. Apparently she is playing in China either with or instead of CP (I'm confused about what is happening over there). At any rate, what made you think of her on the squad, hangtyme24? I love her toughness and she seems to be a great team mate and leader.

I do wonder if her and Lav may are a bit redundant...you know? I think she is a better defender but both are bigs with face up/mid range game. Lav is basically automatic with hers and Little can hit the 3..hmmm. This is definitely an interesting thought, for sure.


I was looking on the Connecticut post and saw Little was an UFA. I've always liked Little's blue collar like game and hustle. Like Lavender, Little has ventured further and further from the basket but i think she'd be an upgrade over anyone not named Lavender coming off our bench. I like Tolo as well and she was a key defender for us before injury so I'd be happy to have either. I guess we hold Tolo's rights so we'll see.



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PostPosted: 11/20/16 9:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Tolo could replace Gruda at backing up the 4 spot. Then bring in a younger post as the 5th post option(Hamson?).

PG: Toliver/Gray
SG: Beard/Williams/Dabovic
SF: Carson/draft pick
PF: Parker/Tolo
C: Ogwumike/Lavender/Hamson


Tolo is a true center while Lavender is a true PF..


I would consider Lavender more of a center than Parker.


Certainly by body type. It's odd how much better Lavender is at the face-up midrange game than in the low post, though.


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PostPosted: 11/20/16 10:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CompSci87 wrote:
Shades wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Tolo could replace Gruda at backing up the 4 spot. Then bring in a younger post as the 5th post option(Hamson?).

PG: Toliver/Gray
SG: Beard/Williams/Dabovic
SF: Carson/draft pick
PF: Parker/Tolo
C: Ogwumike/Lavender/Hamson


Tolo is a true center while Lavender is a true PF..


I would consider Lavender more of a center than Parker.


Certainly by body type. It's odd how much better Lavender is at the face-up midrange game than in the low post, though.


Parker is good in the low post?

Didn't Parker play PF in college with Anosike as the center? Lavender was definitely a center in college.



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PostPosted: 11/21/16 1:39 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
CompSci87 wrote:
Shades wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Tolo could replace Gruda at backing up the 4 spot. Then bring in a younger post as the 5th post option(Hamson?).

PG: Toliver/Gray
SG: Beard/Williams/Dabovic
SF: Carson/draft pick
PF: Parker/Tolo
C: Ogwumike/Lavender/Hamson


Tolo is a true center while Lavender is a true PF..


I would consider Lavender more of a center than Parker.


Certainly by body type. It's odd how much better Lavender is at the face-up midrange game than in the low post, though.


Parker is good in the low post?

Didn't Parker play PF in college with Anosike as the center? Lavender was definitely a center in college.


I would consider both a PF. The few times that Parker is in the low post she has better a better game there then Lavender. Lavender wants to face up and shoot that elbow jumpshot every time she gets and teams let her..

But anyway Tolo would be cheaper then Little and give them some length against Griner Fowles etc. so that Ogwumike doesnt get into foul trouble against them. A post bench duo of Lavender and Tolo is pretty good.
Little and Lavender are too similar but Little ofcourse is a much better defender.



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PostPosted: 11/21/16 1:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Mispost




Last edited by CompSci87 on 11/21/16 1:42 am; edited 1 time in total
CompSci87



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PostPosted: 11/21/16 1:41 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
CompSci87 wrote:
Shades wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Tolo could replace Gruda at backing up the 4 spot. Then bring in a younger post as the 5th post option(Hamson?).

PG: Toliver/Gray
SG: Beard/Williams/Dabovic
SF: Carson/draft pick
PF: Parker/Tolo
C: Ogwumike/Lavender/Hamson


Tolo is a true center while Lavender is a true PF..


I would consider Lavender more of a center than Parker.


Certainly by body type. It's odd how much better Lavender is at the face-up midrange game than in the low post, though.


Parker is good in the low post?

Didn't Parker play PF in college with Anosike as the center? Lavender was definitely a center in college.


Where did I say Parker is good in the low post? My comment was that Lavender has a center's body type but seems better at face-up shots than in the post.


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PostPosted: 11/21/16 2:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CompSci87 wrote:
Shades wrote:
CompSci87 wrote:
Shades wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Tolo could replace Gruda at backing up the 4 spot. Then bring in a younger post as the 5th post option(Hamson?).

PG: Toliver/Gray
SG: Beard/Williams/Dabovic
SF: Carson/draft pick
PF: Parker/Tolo
C: Ogwumike/Lavender/Hamson


Tolo is a true center while Lavender is a true PF..


I would consider Lavender more of a center than Parker.


Certainly by body type. It's odd how much better Lavender is at the face-up midrange game than in the low post, though.


Parker is good in the low post?

Didn't Parker play PF in college with Anosike as the center? Lavender was definitely a center in college.


Where did I say Parker is good in the low post? My comment was that Lavender has a center's body type but seems better at face-up shots than in the post.


If you look back, I was comparing Parker and Lavender. Why make a statement about Lavender's low post game without comparing it to Parker's?

And Michelle, just because Lavender has successfully expanded her game to a face-up and long mid-range game doesn't mean she has forgotten how to be a center. She's been doing it long enough. 2011 draft class. Fours years at OSU plus she started as a center for the Sparks up until this year she was the first post off the bench for either post position.



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PostPosted: 11/21/16 8:41 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Lavender is a center with a good outside shot.No way in hell can she guard the PF position.


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PostPosted: 11/21/16 10:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Gotcha, hangtyme24! I would love to have Tolo back but I'm wondering how she is doing. I know she is playing in the WNBL but can't even remember her during the Olympics. Hmmm...ok, she is averaging a dbl-dbl, is 1st in blocks and second in assists on her team! Who knows how it will translate to the W but come on back, Tolo!!

LA posts:

Parker definitely doesn't want to bang around in the post and I get it. I don't think that has ever been her game. From her talking about how her father trained her, she was groomed to be a hybrid player (multiple positions) but as she said, she is 170 soaking wet and I don't think she has ever been the banging type of player. (Heck, Lisa Leslie who was a 5 said when she saw how big and strong the posts were getting (e.g. Syl), she thought about retirement! lol!) Someone said earlier in CP's W career that she handles like a guard and finishes like a post; however, it is not off of banging but finesse. I think that is a decent description of her although if you look at her rookie debut (also known as the "Cappie just got off the plane" game Laughing), truly what couldn't she do?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBfy_8dXk2w

Eight years of year round play, a baby and a number of injuries definitely makes a difference, but she still does her thing!

Lav is definitely more of a 5 but I love her mid range game because she capitalizes off of the holes the defense leaves on the court. When Lav comes in, she makes the defense have to adjust. Lav will bang but that is not where she hurts the other team. Nneka overcomes in the post not necessarily by banging but by athleticism and footwork and it is a thing of beauty! Wauters is a 5 but good grief she couldn't get any time on the court. I've heard some speculation that she may be preparing to transition into coaching. One post we are not discussing is Gruda.

I definitely understand that anyone who has only seen her in the W these last few years would not be impressed but the woman is good and has been for quite a while. She was Euroleague player of the year a few years ago and she played with Parker at UMMC (Russia) all of the time CP was there. She is a 4/5 work horse with an unorthodoxed looking J and has a strong defensive presence. Here are a few clips of her:

France vs. Russia 2015: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPCG-8FOFb8
Fenerbahce 2016:

https://twitter.com/WNBAOverseas/status/794219283467341824

It seems that coaches in the US have struggled to get her integrated into their system (but European coaches know what to do with her). She did come late this season though and Coach does love European players, so hopefully they have plans for her going forward. Right now, she is playing with Fenerbahce (Turkey) with Lav and Quigley (that seems to be the team's big three). In their Euroleague games, she has the highest player efficiency on the squad (24.5) and is averaging 19p, 7.5r, 3.5a to Lav's 11p, 5r, 1.5a. Now, let me say that she is playing 5 more minutes than Lav but I suspect that part of it is that they are more familiar with Gruda's game. I hope they both do well and develop some nice chemistry to bring back to the Sparks!




Last edited by WfanFrJmp on 11/22/16 5:39 am; edited 1 time in total
Michelle89



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PostPosted: 11/21/16 4:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
Lavender is a center with a good outside shot.No way in hell can she guard the PF position.


Parker cant guard either position but she is still a PF.. Im looking at her offensive game



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PostPosted: 11/21/16 4:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Michelle89 wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Lavender is a center with a good outside shot.No way in hell can she guard the PF position.


Parker cant guard either position but she is still a PF.. Im looking at her offensive game


Candace is a better defender than Lavender when she chooses to be.And just because Lavender can knock down a 20 foot jump shot does not mean she is better suited to play PF on offense.

1.Lavender does not have the handles to create her own shot.

2.Playing Jantel at PF would hurt LA's transition defense.

3.When Jantel is playing the 5 spot,opposing centers have no choice but to step away from the basket and guard Jantel on the perimeter.This creates driving lanes for the guards & forwards.


Michelle89



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PostPosted: 11/22/16 3:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Lavender is a center with a good outside shot.No way in hell can she guard the PF position.


Parker cant guard either position but she is still a PF.. Im looking at her offensive game


Candace is a better defender than Lavender when she chooses to be.And just because Lavender can knock down a 20 foot jump shot does not mean she is better suited to play PF on offense.

1.Lavender does not have the handles to create her own shot.

2.Playing Jantel at PF would hurt LA's transition defense.

3.When Jantel is playing the 5 spot,opposing centers have no choice but to step away from the basket and guard Jantel on the perimeter.This creates driving lanes for the guards & forwards.


90% of the time Parker chooses to be a liability on defense..

1. Since when does playing PF mean that you have to have handles to create your own shot and the center doesnt? Comparing her handles to Parkers is not really fair..

2. I dont see why playing Jantel at the PF position on offense has something to do with their transistion defense? Ogwumike is guarding the opponents best postplayer when she is on the floor with Lavender anyway and Tolo can run the floor and take over the toughest defensive task when she is on the floor with Lavender. Also we are talking about bench rotations(opponents) here...

3. Playing Lavender at center on offense doesnt guarantee that opposing teams are having their center guarding her. If she plays with Tolo for example then opposing teams will guard Lavender with their PF probably. If she is playing with Parker or Ogwumike then opposing teams will have their weakest post defender on her so i dont really get the point..



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PostPosted: 11/22/16 8:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Lavender is a center with a good outside shot.No way in hell can she guard the PF position.


Parker cant guard either position but she is still a PF.. Im looking at her offensive game


Candace is a better defender than Lavender when she chooses to be.And just because Lavender can knock down a 20 foot jump shot does not mean she is better suited to play PF on offense.

1.Lavender does not have the handles to create her own shot.

2.Playing Jantel at PF would hurt LA's transition defense.

3.When Jantel is playing the 5 spot,opposing centers have no choice but to step away from the basket and guard Jantel on the perimeter.This creates driving lanes for the guards & forwards.


Candace's 'handle' results in a LOT of TOs. She would be better served to let her guards do the handling. If LA has an issue, it's that all three of their 'best' bigs are really PFs. Nneka has taken it on herself to be the grind it out defender in the post, but she is undersized and I think it would help if they had a Tolo to take some of the pressure off her. I thought Wauters might help in that regard but she appears to be past it.



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PostPosted: 11/22/16 9:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Lavender is a center with a good outside shot.No way in hell can she guard the PF position.


Parker cant guard either position but she is still a PF.. Im looking at her offensive game


Candace is a better defender than Lavender when she chooses to be.And just because Lavender can knock down a 20 foot jump shot does not mean she is better suited to play PF on offense.

1.Lavender does not have the handles to create her own shot.

2.Playing Jantel at PF would hurt LA's transition defense.

3.When Jantel is playing the 5 spot,opposing centers have no choice but to step away from the basket and guard Jantel on the perimeter.This creates driving lanes for the guards & forwards.


Candace's 'handle' results in a LOT of TOs. She would be better served to let her guards do the handling. If LA has an issue, it's that all three of their 'best' bigs are really PFs. Nneka has taken it on herself to be the grind it out defender in the post, but she is undersized and I think it would help if they had a Tolo to take some of the pressure off her. I thought Wauters might help in that regard but she appears to be past it.


In fact, Candace Parker had the most turnovers in the league last season



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PostPosted: 11/24/16 9:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Jantel's in a unique situation.Ogwumike is most productive around the basket area,but is the best option for guarding power forwards.From a defensive standpoint,Ogwumike is a non-traditional center.No other center in the league is capable of guarding sf/pf/c.This affords Jantel the luxury of playing PF on offense without having to guard said position on defense.To be perfectly honest,Ogwumike is not even a center.The sparks are starting two PF's.The first post off the bench is a center(Lavender).Jantel starting at PF for any team in the wnba would be a complete failure.

Could Jantel start alongside Griner ? Boyette ? Paris ? Swords ? Dolson ? Williams ? Larkins ? Fowles ? Appel ?

The answer is a resounding "No".....Jantel would get exposed on the defensive side of the ball.Jantel imo is more of a center than PF.

Parker's turnover total is irrelevant.Players with high usage rates usually rank among the league leaders in turnovers.Despite the high turnover total,Candace still had a better asst/to ratio than Mccoughtry,Taurasi,Sims,Stewart,Diggins,Loyd,etc

Also,the Candace bashing needs to stop.....she just won a championship.


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PostPosted: 11/24/16 1:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Mentioning Parker's weakness is not 'bashing' her. I was totally pissed off at USA for not including her in the Olys since she is clearly one of the best players in the world. I resent that implication - mentioning the FACT that she gets lots of TOs, and some of them have nothing to do with usage but just that she tries to be Magic J instead of friggin passing the ball to a guard, is simply pointing out a flaw in her game and has NOTHING TO DO WITH BASHING. She's a great player and just won a championship but that doesn't make her a goddess beyond criticism.

And personally I think Lavender would be just fine as a PF operating with those bigs you mentioned. She's not great defensively as either a PF or a C. There are other PFs in the league who also aren't great. That doesn't mean they'd be better playing C. And she clearly doesn't like the contact required to bash under the basket.



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PostPosted: 11/24/16 3:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
NOTHING TO DO WITH BASHING.


It is bashing.......MCcoughtry averaged just as many turnovers as Parker but pilight will seldom say anything about it.

Most turnovers 2016

Parker 98 in 34 gms- 2.9 per gm in 30.8 min per gm
Angel 96 in 33 gms- 2.9 per gm in 30.0 min per gm

Infact,Mccoughtry led the league in turnovers 3 consecutive seasons.

2015:
Angel 107
charles 82

2014:
Angel 116
Diggins 97

2013:
Angel 134
Taurasi 116

Mccoughtry is avg 3.0 asst to 2.9 TO for her career while Parker is avg 3.8 asst to 2.5 TO.


myrtle wrote:
There are other PFs in the league who also aren't great. That doesn't mean they'd be better playing C.


Unlike most PF's in the league,Jantel has a very recent history of playing the center position.




Last edited by zune69 on 11/24/16 7:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
zune69



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PostPosted: 11/24/16 7:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Player comparison Asst/to ratio.

Whalen 2.32
Bird 2.08
Moore 1.70
Taurasi 1.53
Parker 1.52
Swoopes 1.52
Cooper 1.44
Catchings 1.43
Smith 1.37
Jackson 0.82
Leslie 0.73
T.Thompson 0.64


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