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UK1996
Joined: 03 Sep 2015
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 Posted: 04/26/17 11:16 am ::: |
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| I think Seattle would be the best situation for Schimmel. She would be close to her family. She could backup the one and two. If she had stayed in shape, by now she could have been a borderline starter, or even better. She probably would still be a bench player but the potential is there. Doesn't Seattle have a nutritionist? She could also benefit from that.
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Randy
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| Posted: 04/26/17 11:21 am ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
| I'm beginning to think that the whole Schimmel not showing up to camp thing is the Liberty are currently working on a trade. As I've said before, some teams would pick up Schimmel just to help boost ticket sales. Teams like Dallas, Phoenix & Seattle would likely benefit by adding her. Would Seattle take her with Bird being injured now? Schimmel for O'Hea? Phoenix needs any help for their bench they can get, but Phoenix has nothing to trade for(2018 2nd round pick?) & doesn't need the attendance boost unlike Dallas would. Dallas could potential trade for Schimmel even with Phillips, Davis & Gray on their bench already. Jordan Hooper for Schimmel? Just speculating where Schimmel could possibly end up if she's not playing for the Liberty. |
That's what I think too, but no team really wants to pay much (if anything) for Shoni. UK1996 makes a good argument for Seattle, but they just may not be interested given her history of not showing up in shape. A nutritionist can help you know what and how much to eat, but its up the player to go along with the plan. I'm pretty sure that fans from the teams mentioned above will not be excited about those deals. I'm thinking a 3rd round pick next year.
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Shades
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| Posted: 04/26/17 11:45 am ::: |
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All this spazzing and for all we know Schimmel may have gotten permission to arrive to camp late because she had a charity event or whatever.
If Schimmel has abandoned the Liberty, what is the issue? Does she not like the Liberty or the league? Did she catch wind of Laimbeer's mocking comments? Does she not want to get into great shape? Is she like KML and wants to appreciated for who she is and she wants to go to a team that won't bother her about her weight? Too many questions that need to be answered before we can randonly assume she'll work out with another team.
Plus, if other GM's are paying attention as much as we are, they should know that NYL are bloated at guard and they can wait for NYL to cut Schimmel. Why trade for her? Only way I could see it if a team at the bottom of the waiver wire waiting list is interested in Schimmel and they are worried that SAN or SEA might pick her up.
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Randy
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myrtle
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| Posted: 04/26/17 12:10 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
If Schimmel has abandoned the Liberty, what is the issue? Does she not like the Liberty or the league? Did she catch wind of Laimbeer's mocking comments? Does she not want to get into great shape? Is she like KML and wants to appreciated for who she is and she wants to go to a team that won't bother her about her weight? |
The pix we saw recently of KML looks like she did in fact get into better shape. We don't know yet if Shoni did as well, but I'm hoping so...
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root_thing
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| Posted: 04/26/17 12:20 pm ::: |
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Oddly enough, by not coming to camp, Schimmel provides the Liberty with a no-risk option for retaining her rights. Shoni is under contract -- a normal non-training camp contract. That means if she meets her obligations she is automatically on the team unless the Liberty cut her. However, by not showing up, she violates her contract and gives the team a third choice: they can suspend her. So, if Schimmel wants to force the team to release her, then she needs to attend camp.
Of course, the bigger question is if any team wants her. I think this idea that she'll generate huge ticket sales is a myth. It's one thing for people to show up for one or two games as a group event. It's another to become STHs. Supposedly Shoni's fans look up to her because she's like them -- she grew up poor. Lower income people are not a great demographic if you're looking to market sports tickets which are essentially a luxury item. Also, I've noticed posts on Liberty social media where people said that they would come out to games as soon as Schimmel started playing. In other words, Shoni sitting on the bench is not going to draw fans. It always comes down to playing good basketball -- for both the player and the team.
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Randy
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| Posted: 04/26/17 1:12 pm ::: |
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| root_thing wrote: |
Oddly enough, by not coming to camp, Schimmel provides the Liberty with a no-risk option for retaining her rights. Shoni is under contract -- a normal non-training camp contract. That means if she meets her obligations she is automatically on the team unless the Liberty cut her. However, by not showing up, she violates her contract and gives the team a third choice: they can suspend her. So, if Schimmel wants to force the team to release her, then she needs to attend camp.
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Except getting cut would damage her "brand" which may drive other ventures (basketball camps, etc) and her reputation, at the very least. So if she stays away NY gets to keep her rights and Shoni gets to keep a little bit of her lustre. That's why I think both sides are in agreement on this strategy,
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RavenDog
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| Posted: 04/26/17 1:17 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
All this spazzing and for all we know Schimmel may have gotten permission to arrive to camp late because she had a charity event or whatever.
If Schimmel has abandoned the Liberty, what is the issue? Does she not like the Liberty or the league? Did she catch wind of Laimbeer's mocking comments? Does she not want to get into great shape? Is she like KML and wants to appreciated for who she is and she wants to go to a team that won't bother her about her weight? Too many questions that need to be answered before we can randonly assume she'll work out with another team.
Plus, if other GM's are paying attention as much as we are, they should know that NYL are bloated at guard and they can wait for NYL to cut Schimmel. Why trade for her? Only way I could see it if a team at the bottom of the waiver wire waiting list is interested in Schimmel and they are worried that SAN or SEA might pick her up. |
VJ would have her for lunch. LoCal of course.
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root_thing
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| Posted: 04/26/17 1:34 pm ::: |
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| Randy wrote: |
Except getting cut would damage her "brand" which may drive other ventures (basketball camps, etc) and her reputation, at the very least. So if she stays away NY gets to keep her rights and Shoni gets to keep a little bit of her lustre. That's why I think both sides are in agreement on this strategy, |
What exactly is her brand? Bench Warmer Basketball Camps? Incommunicado Perfume? Overweight Not Watchers Cuisine? Shoni grows more irrelevant every day she is not on a basketball court.
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toad455
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| Posted: 04/26/17 1:51 pm ::: |
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| Considering her large fan base, you would think something would have been leaked as to why she's not in camp. And still no word from the Liberty as to why she's not there.
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ClayK
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| Posted: 04/26/17 2:59 pm ::: |
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The real question is this: Can Shoni Schimmel help a WNBA team win games this summer?
If GMs believe the answer is yes, which assumes a certain level of commitment and conditioning, then she will find a team. If GMs believe the answer is no, the potential revenue is irrelevant.
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root_thing
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| Posted: 04/26/17 3:58 pm ::: |
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| Just listened to the latest At Liberty To Speak. Nayo says that Bill wants the Liberty to be the fittest team in the league and that he wants them to run and gun.
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Randy
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| Posted: 04/26/17 4:07 pm ::: |
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| root_thing wrote: |
| Randy wrote: |
Except getting cut would damage her "brand" which may drive other ventures (basketball camps, etc) and her reputation, at the very least. So if she stays away NY gets to keep her rights and Shoni gets to keep a little bit of her lustre. That's why I think both sides are in agreement on this strategy, |
What exactly is her brand? Bench Warmer Basketball Camps? Incommunicado Perfume? Overweight Not Watchers Cuisine? Shoni grows more irrelevant every day she is not on a basketball court. |
Good question but whatever her brand is - it means something to the people who voted her an All Star, showed up in droves at some of her road games and made her jersey a hot seller. She had (maybe still has) a large following in her community. But you are right on the second point - she is becoming irrelevant and getting cut by a WNBA team might make her a lot less interesting to her remaining supporters.
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root_thing
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| Posted: 04/26/17 5:19 pm ::: |
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| Randy wrote: |
| root_thing wrote: |
| Randy wrote: |
Except getting cut would damage her "brand" which may drive other ventures (basketball camps, etc) and her reputation, at the very least. So if she stays away NY gets to keep her rights and Shoni gets to keep a little bit of her lustre. That's why I think both sides are in agreement on this strategy, |
What exactly is her brand? Bench Warmer Basketball Camps? Incommunicado Perfume? Overweight Not Watchers Cuisine? Shoni grows more irrelevant every day she is not on a basketball court. |
Good question but whatever her brand is - it means something to the people who voted her an All Star, showed up in droves at some of her road games and made her jersey a hot seller. She had (maybe still has) a large following in her community. But you are right on the second point - she is becoming irrelevant and getting cut by a WNBA team might make her a lot less interesting to her remaining supporters. |
I think the problem for Shoni is that her appeal is largely symbolic and a product of identity politics. It's a much heavier burden to bear than say, someone like Skylar Diggins who is out there playing glamour girl. Skylar's appeal is much more individual, about image and lifestyle. If fans get bored with her, they can move on to the next idol. Shoni is a beacon of hope for a lot of young Native Americans. If she fails, it's a greater fall, and her fans don't necessarily have a replacement readily available.
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UK1996
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| Posted: 04/26/17 5:22 pm ::: |
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| A little off topic, but isn't Destiny Slocum also native american? If she is she could attract a following too. It may be four years before she gets to the WNBA, and a lot can happen between now and then.
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root_thing
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Happycappie25
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| Posted: 04/26/17 7:07 pm ::: |
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| gethers22 wrote: |
| What's the chances of Burdick making the final roster ?? I've seen her the most on the liberty snapchat and she's been looking good |
Very good IMHO...either her or raincock are fighting for the same spot between having a big for 3 and needing someone to fill a void at backup 4 when Vaughn goes to EuroBasket..id say 75% in her favor
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Nerd2
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| Posted: 04/26/17 7:21 pm ::: |
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| The silence over Schimmel could also be an attempt to minimize the negative comments that would result from her not playing. When the Dream traded her, there was a ton of "well, now I'm a Liberty fan" comments posted to the announcement. If you simply say nothing and she isn't on the final roster, the anger could be spread out a bit as people notice. The trade for Hartley and the drafting of Allen effectively said they were looking for PGs.
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 04/26/17 8:58 pm ::: |
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| Any word on when some of our overseas players will begin turning up--and, therefore, on when roster cuts will need to begin?
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root_thing
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| Posted: 04/26/17 10:28 pm ::: |
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| Bob Lamm wrote: |
| Any word on when some of our overseas players will begin turning up--and, therefore, on when roster cuts will need to begin? |
Vaughn's team won their playoffs today, so she's done. On the At Liberty To Speak podcast, they were predicting May 1st for her. That's on Monday. It's actually bad timing because NY has preseason games on May 2 & 3. One day is not enough practice time for Kia to be ready, and you'd like the players who have been here to at least get into a game after their hard work. So, maybe they push Kia back to May 4? Either that or she should arrive in camp earlier. Since Vaughn is new to the system, she really needs more time to both learn the plays and become acclimated to her new teammates.
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J-Spoon
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| Posted: 04/26/17 11:48 pm ::: |
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| Happycappie25 wrote: |
| gethers22 wrote: |
| What's the chances of Burdick making the final roster ?? I've seen her the most on the liberty snapchat and she's been looking good |
Very good IMHO...either her or raincock are fighting for the same spot between having a big for 3 and needing someone to fill a void at backup 4 when Vaughn goes to EuroBasket..id say 75% in her favor |
I've brought it up a couple of times does anyone think NY could go bigger and keep both Burdick and Nayo? I think both these player have potential and fit that Liberty grit. I realize we might need that steadier PG, and Allen has grit too, but I could see coach enjoying multiple options to play at the 3 and the 4 off the bench.
I still think this line up could happen, TBH I like this line up, (but ask me in 10 minutes and I'll change my mind and go back to pro Allen.)
Prince/Boyd/Hartley
Rodgers/Zellous
Allen/Burdick
Charles/Zahui B./Raincock-Ekunwe
Stokes/Vaughn
(and if they want to go with vets in crunch-time Zellous can still play some SF in a pinch)
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root_thing
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| Posted: 04/27/17 12:25 am ::: |
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| J-Spoon wrote: |
I've brought it up a couple of times does anyone think NY could go bigger and keep both Burdick and Nayo? I think both these player have potential and fit that Liberty grit. I realize we might need that steadier PG, and Allen has grit too, but I could see coach enjoying multiple options to play at the 3 and the 4 off the bench.
I still think this line up could happen, TBH I like this line up, (but ask me in 10 minutes and I'll change my mind and go back to pro Allen.)
Prince/Boyd/Hartley
Rodgers/Zellous
Allen/Burdick
Charles/Zahui B./Raincock-Ekunwe
Stokes/Vaughn
(and if they want to go with vets in crunch-time Zellous can still play some SF in a pinch) |
I think it's possible -- especially since this version gives you better roster balance. However, I just don't believe Allen will be the guard who goes. If Bill wants to run and gun, having that true PG who comes from a running offense will be a big plus. Prince is the one who looks out of place. She almost always walks the ball up court when playing PG. Boyd and Allen will definitely push. On the other hand, they just gave Prince a new contract and she was 2nd Team All-WNBA just two seasons ago. Zellous is their biggest guard and can play some SF, so she's likely needed. Also one of your veteran leaders. So, I guess that leaves Hartley as the most vulnerable. It's a tough call. That's why the small variation seems more likely. Cutting Cierra or Nayo just looks easier.
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ArtBest23
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| Posted: 04/27/17 10:48 am ::: |
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| root_thing wrote: |
| J-Spoon wrote: |
I've brought it up a couple of times does anyone think NY could go bigger and keep both Burdick and Nayo? I think both these player have potential and fit that Liberty grit. I realize we might need that steadier PG, and Allen has grit too, but I could see coach enjoying multiple options to play at the 3 and the 4 off the bench.
I still think this line up could happen, TBH I like this line up, (but ask me in 10 minutes and I'll change my mind and go back to pro Allen.)
Prince/Boyd/Hartley
Rodgers/Zellous
Allen/Burdick
Charles/Zahui B./Raincock-Ekunwe
Stokes/Vaughn
(and if they want to go with vets in crunch-time Zellous can still play some SF in a pinch) |
I think it's possible -- especially since this version gives you better roster balance. However, I just don't believe Allen will be the guard who goes. If Bill wants to run and gun, having that true PG who comes from a running offense will be a big plus. Prince is the one who looks out of place. She almost always walks the ball up court when playing PG. Boyd and Allen will definitely push. On the other hand, they just gave Prince a new contract and she was 2nd Team All-WNBA just two seasons ago. Zellous is their biggest guard and can play some SF, so she's likely needed. Also one of your veteran leaders. So, I guess that leaves Hartley as the most vulnerable. It's a tough call. That's why the small variation seems more likely. Cutting Cierra or Nayo just looks easier. |
Just guessing that if they really thought they'd solved their problem by acquiring Hartley, they wouldn't have drafted Allen. That was a "fill a specific position", not " best available player" selection.
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root_thing
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| Posted: 04/27/17 11:38 am ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
Just guessing that if they really thought they'd solved their problem by acquiring Hartley, they wouldn't have drafted Allen. That was a "fill a specific position", not " best available player" selection. |
I generally agree. I believe once they ascertained that Wright wasn't coming back, management decided to bring in an option with experience as well as targeting someone in the draft. I don't think this means that they're dissatisfied with Hartley. It's just a matter of playing it safe and giving yourself some choices. The question is what to do once they've made their decision. Does the "losing" player go away or do you find another use for her? Hartley can play SG, and IMHO has been better at SG even in college. However, that leads to more crowding at 2-guard, which in turn means pushing Zellous up to SF. Shavonte at 3 makes most Liberty fans uncomfortable. So, I don't know. It also seems like they've done a certain amount of promotion on Hartley. She's been very visible on their website in pictures, videos, featured articles, etc. Her and Vaughn coming home to NY has been a big story. Bria was also one of two Liberty players at the draft party, along with Charles. I don't get the sense that Hartley is going anywhere either.
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pilight
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| Posted: 04/27/17 4:05 pm ::: |
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| The Lib waived Okorie
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