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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 03/13/17 5:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Michelle89 wrote:
People keep whining about Clarks lack of rebounding but then say that Mo Curry is the solution at SF for the Liberty.

Clark had 3,7 rebounds per game last season in 27,6 min and Mo Curry (who is taller) had 4,4 rebounds in 25,5 min. Year before that Clark had 3,7 in 23,1 min while Curry had 3,2 rebounds in 21,3 min. But we never hear anything about Curry being a weak rebounder?


I will admit that I haven't reread all the comments on 12 pages of this thread before writing this. But I don't recall anyone suggesting that Curry was "the solution" for the Liberty at SF. Or anything close. What I recall is some discussion that it would be better to have Curry backing up Allen at that position rather than Zellous backing up Allen.

As for rebounding, it would be ideal to have a SF who's a better rebounder than either Allen or Curry. (Or Zellous.) But that is hardly all there is to the SF position. If it is indeed accurate that Bill Laimbeer is planning to have Rebecca Allen start at SF for New York and play major minutes, that's in itself a statement that rebounding is not the prime consideration for a small forward. Though it's surely a plus.



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Michelle89



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PostPosted: 03/13/17 5:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

canadaball wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:
People keep whining about Clarks lack of rebounding but then say that Mo Curry is the solution at SF for the Liberty.

Clark had 3,7 rebounds per game last season in 27,6 min and Mo Curry (who is taller) had 4,4 rebounds in 25,5 min. Year before that Clark had 3,7 in 23,1 min while Curry had 3,2 rebounds in 21,3 min. But we never hear anything about Curry being a weak rebounder?


Curry is now a very marginal player. Seattle, with its 3 All Stars, needs a real small forward. Watch Clark play. She is a smart, hard worker, but the girl has no size, and cannot jump. Forget All stars like Maya, and Angel, she makes very routine 3's like Alyssa Thomas and Aerial Powers look great.


You already said it. Seattle already has 3 allstars. They dont need stars at every position.. They need players around them that work hard, defend hard, that are versatile and are willing to do the dirty work. She does that. She used to play the post position so she knows how to play against bigger players. Get over it..

9 pts on 48,4 shooting from the field and 38,7 % from 3 while only getting 6,8 shots per game and defending the best opposing player(whether that is Taurasi, McCoughtry, Moore, Ogwumike) night in and night out... Ill take that from my non star players any day of the week...



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canadaball



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PostPosted: 03/13/17 5:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Michelle89 wrote:
canadaball wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:
People keep whining about Clarks lack of rebounding but then say that Mo Curry is the solution at SF for the Liberty.

Clark had 3,7 rebounds per game last season in 27,6 min and Mo Curry (who is taller) had 4,4 rebounds in 25,5 min. Year before that Clark had 3,7 in 23,1 min while Curry had 3,2 rebounds in 21,3 min. But we never hear anything about Curry being a weak rebounder?


Curry is now a very marginal player. Seattle, with its 3 All Stars, needs a real small forward. Watch Clark play. She is a smart, hard worker, but the girl has no size, and cannot jump. Forget All stars like Maya, and Angel, she makes very routine 3's like Alyssa Thomas and Aerial Powers look great.


You already said it. Seattle already has 3 allstars. They dont need stars at every position.. They need players around them that work hard, defend hard, that are versatile and are willing to do the dirty work. She does that. She used to play the post position so she knows how to play against bigger players. Get over it..

9 pts on 48,4 shooting from the field and 38,7 % from 3 while only getting 6,8 shots per game and defending the best opposing player(whether that is Taurasi, McCoughtry, Moore, Ogwumike) night in and night out... Ill take that from my non star players any day of the week...


Uh...let's remember that despite the presence of 3 All Stars, and a completely healthy team all season, Seattle was 14-18. In the playoffs, they proceeded to lose to a team devastated by injury(no Tiffany Hayes; no Sancho Lyttle)..


J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 03/13/17 7:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Clark and Currie are both good player, not great but good solid options for the SF spot.

In terms of the Liberty I think trading Zellous for Currie or Clark or say Schimmel and #14 for Clark if Seattle has any interest in Shoni could be an improvement to the team. The Liberty are at a place in their development where even a decent small improvement could get them another rung up the ladder to the finals.

With that said I'm still OK with just going with the cross fingers hope Allen takes a huge step forward, use Zellous at the SF when we can afford to go small, and hope one of Burdick or Raincock-Wkunwe can be converted to a 10-15 minute a night SF option plan. Overall I still prefer Zellous to either Clark or Currie, but if we made the swap for either for the good of the team I can get on board with it.

I'm still hoping Laimbeer and company could pull off some sort of sneaky move to get Christmas or A. Thomas without having to give up too much, (I'd consider the 2018 first round pick as the best option to pull that off, even though it is risky, but if NY can get that top four finish in the league I wouldn't worry too much about it. We could even throw in a player lke Hartley or Schimmel if that could make it happen, maybe even Zellous but only for Thomas in that case, also I know its been discussed but I think NY has enough shooters that Thomas' lack of range wouldn't hurt as much as her size and passing from the SF spot would help). But outside of a trade like that I'm coming around to just make the best with what we have.


Michelle89



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PostPosted: 03/14/17 1:08 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

canadaball wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:
canadaball wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:
People keep whining about Clarks lack of rebounding but then say that Mo Curry is the solution at SF for the Liberty.

Clark had 3,7 rebounds per game last season in 27,6 min and Mo Curry (who is taller) had 4,4 rebounds in 25,5 min. Year before that Clark had 3,7 in 23,1 min while Curry had 3,2 rebounds in 21,3 min. But we never hear anything about Curry being a weak rebounder?


Curry is now a very marginal player. Seattle, with its 3 All Stars, needs a real small forward. Watch Clark play. She is a smart, hard worker, but the girl has no size, and cannot jump. Forget All stars like Maya, and Angel, she makes very routine 3's like Alyssa Thomas and Aerial Powers look great.


You already said it. Seattle already has 3 allstars. They dont need stars at every position.. They need players around them that work hard, defend hard, that are versatile and are willing to do the dirty work. She does that. She used to play the post position so she knows how to play against bigger players. Get over it..

9 pts on 48,4 shooting from the field and 38,7 % from 3 while only getting 6,8 shots per game and defending the best opposing player(whether that is Taurasi, McCoughtry, Moore, Ogwumike) night in and night out... Ill take that from my non star players any day of the week...


Uh...let's remember that despite the presence of 3 All Stars, and a completely healthy team all season, Seattle was 14-18. In the playoffs, they proceeded to lose to a team devastated by injury(no Tiffany Hayes; no Sancho Lyttle)..


Yes and that is all too blame on Clarks lack of rebounding Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 03/14/17 5:56 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

OK just playing the imagination game 2018 first round pick and Hartley to Conn for A. Thomas

Prince/Boyd/Schimmel
Rodgers/Zellous
A. Thomas/Allen
Charles/Zahui B/Burdick
Stokes/Vaughn

Oh I really like that, A. Thomas' passing slash point forward ability makes the Prince/Rodgers back-court work. With Prince, Rodgers, Allen, Schimmel, and sometimes Zahui B and Zellous there is enough shooting to not have to get so nervous about Thomas' lack of range, And in the starting line up Thomas is the 4th option on offense which is great. We would actually have Charles with three other potential double digit scorers on the floor which we haven't had since Tina has been here. And we've got some nice fire power on the bench in Zellous, Allen and Zahui B, another physical defender in Vaughn, Boyd can give us that change of speed PG without the pressure of having to be the starter, and Schimmel gets another season to make her shooting and passing happen for the team as a deep bench option.

Conn probably doesn't go for it but who knows? They get another pick in a strong draft, and a UConn product. If Tuck is healthy she can start at SF and really until Chiney gets back the Sun aren't going anywhere anyway so why not plan for 18, Bria will be fully back from pregnancy by then and they'll have two more first round picks to add to there young but gaining experience roster. Have 17 be the growth of J. Jones, Tuck and C. Williams season, while giving Banham and Gray an ample chance to prove themselves.


toad455



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PostPosted: 03/14/17 8:44 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Considering how deep the 2018 draft is, I'm not giving up a first round pick unless we're getting someone like McCoughtry or Bonner.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 03/14/17 10:36 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I guess I'm somewhere in-between. Assuming that a couple of players come out early in 2017 and are replaced by a couple coming out early in 2018, I would say the depth of the draft gains you roughly 5 slots. In other words, the #10 next year would be like a #5 in a normal year. Certainly, the pick is worth more than normal, but not necessarily too valuable to trade. Management just needs to make that mental adjustment and proceed with caution.

Yes, if you have both Rodgers and Prince in the backcourt, then A. Thomas looks like a better offensive fit -- although to really make it work I think you have to start Zahui B over Stokes. However, while I think that's the backcourt combination that gets first shot, I don't believe it's written in stone. We'll see how the defense works out. I also agree with the second guessing -- this doesn't sound like a trade CT would make. With all the talk about CT's draft picks, Miller ended up relying on a starting line-up of veterans (Chiney, Little, Bentley, Thomases) in the second half and the team played reasonably well. He already has enough young players. At some point, the focus has to be on development. The constant acquisition of rookies sounds like running in place at the starting line.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 03/14/17 11:10 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'd love to be able to grab A. Thomas from Connecticut. Adding her as our starting SF, plus her ability to slide over to PF would be a great asset for us. But I don't want to give up a 2018 first round pick. So unless it's Rodgers for Thomas, I don't see anything else working out via a trade.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 03/14/17 11:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I feel like people are still imagining the Alyssa Thomas they remember from college. She's played about five seconds of power forward in the WNBA. There's really no evidence that she can play the 4 at this level, even if it seems like she could in theory.



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PostPosted: 03/14/17 12:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

There's more evidence that Thomas can play PF than there is that Little can play PF at this stage of her career.



That being said, these unrealistic Lib dreams for Thomas need to be put on a shelf. It's not going to happen.



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mavcarter



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PostPosted: 03/14/17 1:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
That being said, these unrealistic Lib dreams for Thomas need to be put on a shelf. It's not going to happen.


If you can make up unrealistic dreams on a regular basis, don't know why Liberty fans can't.. Laughing



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PostPosted: 03/14/17 5:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

T H I S!!!!!!!!!

toad455 wrote:
Considering how deep the 2018 draft is, I'm not giving up a first round pick unless we're getting someone like McCoughtry or Bonner.


Or at least getting more than 1 player...you don't touch that draft until the off season unless there is a boffo and bonkers rash of Jrs coming out in the 2017 draft

I wouldn't trade 8-10 next year for ONE this year (Not that SA would)

Plus the specter of Charles for Spencer makes this difficult to sell to fans...there are still pissers and moaners in Libland who decry that we gave up Elizabeth Williams and A Thomas despite it being for TINA FREAKING CHARLES!!! that when we give up the 1 we miss the lottery pick that comes with it.

Charles for Spencer still haunts a lot of people...even though the pick did change hands 3 times on its way to CT.

(Mind you the A Thomas part of the equation was more the league not announcing the trade straight away for technical reasons, something that IMHO caused unneeded tension)

So trading the 2018 before its assigned (that is before the end of the upcoming season) I think would be more trouble than it was worth

Hell I remember fans decrying a trade because 2 years and 2 teams later Janel Burse had a good year. (Which led to my 3rd year post rule)

We may be one of the most passionate fanbases in the WNBA but we certainly are demanding LOL



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toad455



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PostPosted: 03/14/17 6:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

For two players? Then we could do A. Thomas & D. Adams for our 1st round pick. Adams is a Laimbeer type player and would fit into his system. Not sure where Zahui B. would fit after this trade.



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PostPosted: 03/14/17 6:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

No thanks on Danielle Adams. Been there, done that with Kara Braxton.



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PostPosted: 03/14/17 9:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

We have weekly conference calls and have great discussions involving all staff re draft/trades/FA.
But I must say, this thread is entertaining and informative on fan thinking.
Keep it up. Liberty thread is kicking butt on all others.


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PostPosted: 03/14/17 10:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The notion of trading for a player that Miller just signed to a training camp contract has got to be part of the entertainment value.



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PostPosted: 03/14/17 10:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm not saying I'm completely for it, but the 2018 first round pick is a decent asset, getting an experienced SF that solves our problem at that spot like Thomas or Christmas isn't going to happen for free. I would rather take the risk with the pick than trade someone like Stokes, Rodgers or even Zahui B (who I think is about to have that break through season.) I'm confident that if NY gets a decent SF and gets to keep the team we have in place now a top 4 finish is in the cards TBH I think were top 4 without any moves at all (Yes it is a risk to make that assumption but you don't trade for decent players without taking a risk), so the pick should be 9-12.

Lets see who is really going to be there even if no one declares top 8
Wilson, Deshields, Mitchell, Williams, Vivians, Gray, Canada, Brown, OK that is 8, Davis, Mavunga, Harper, Hines-Allen, Moore, Greenwell So yeah it is a risk, but I would easily trade most of the players past six for a proven SF now, and if a couple of those top players declare in 17 the line moves further down.

I was here for the Spencer trade so I understand the fear, but we're in our window right now, even if we get a really good talent in the 18 draft it will still be a year or two unless its a lottery type pick for that player to make an impact. If we can get a decent SF now I do it, we've discussed the SF spot for a while now and there just aren't that many good one out there. I would role the dice.


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PostPosted: 03/15/17 12:23 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:

Lets see who is really going to be there even if no one declares top 8
Wilson, Deshields, Mitchell, Williams, Vivians, Gray, Canada, Brown, OK that is 8, Davis, Mavunga, Harper, Hines-Allen, Moore, Greenwell So yeah it is a risk, but I would easily trade most of the players past six for a proven SF now, and if a couple of those top players declare in 17 the line moves further down.


You're missing some significant names: Turner, Russell, Nared, Nurse, and Gabby Williams. Scaife will be back, and I think Monique Billings could really rise based on her length and athletic ability. As I noted before, if a couple of players come out early this year, you can expect a couple to come out early next year. I'm sure people will be speculating about Azura Stevens.



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PostPosted: 03/15/17 1:15 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
J-Spoon wrote:

Lets see who is really going to be there even if no one declares top 8
Wilson, Deshields, Mitchell, Williams, Vivians, Gray, Canada, Brown, OK that is 8, Davis, Mavunga, Harper, Hines-Allen, Moore, Greenwell So yeah it is a risk, but I would easily trade most of the players past six for a proven SF now, and if a couple of those top players declare in 17 the line moves further down.


You're missing some significant names: Turner, Russell, Nared, Nurse, and Gabby Williams. Scaife will be back, and I think Monique Billings could really rise based on her length and athletic ability. As I noted before, if a couple of players come out early this year, you can expect a couple to come out early next year. I'm sure people will be speculating about Azura Stevens.


Crap I did miss some good names, Williams is the Williams I had above, but IMO only Turner would be in the top 8, maybe Russell, I like Billings, and Nared and yeah maybe there could be couple of early declarations from the following season (but it might be less motivating to come out early to join an already very strong class). OK it is super risky, I would probably still do it (But I really like A. Thomas and think Christmas would be a great fit too, we're so close I don't want to keep waiting), maybe see if we could get Dallas or Conn to send back their 2nd round pick in 18 in the deal.


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PostPosted: 03/15/17 6:17 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

LFO wrote:
We have weekly conference calls and have great discussions involving all staff re draft/trades/FA.
But I must say, this thread is entertaining and informative on fan thinking.
Keep it up. Liberty thread is kicking butt on all others.


Thanks Bill...I normally keep my fan feedback to emails...but I agree...I do think we're the most passionate fans out there but know our basketball as well...There's a reason I refer to your Annual Q and A at the Holiday Party as the "State of the Union" LOL

Sometimes I worry we come close to the line of the Eagles, Maple Leafs or Raiders in terms of almost becoming a hinderance because we are so demanding of our team but I'm glad you like us and value our opinion.

Said this privately many times to both Ticket Reps and KB (and now Swin) but ill air it here since you made such a comment...the biggest positive change from the Blaze Era has been receptiveness to fan feedback and input both in Entertainment Experience and Promotion to the team itself.

I like to view this board as kinda WFAN...a place where we can publically sound off about the team sometimes rationally, sometimes anatically, often times irrationally but always passionately!

Glad to see you getting value out of this and especially this thread.

Keep up the good work Bill...always value you taking time to post here Smile



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PostPosted: 03/15/17 12:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
I feel like people are still imagining the Alyssa Thomas they remember from college. She's played about five seconds of power forward in the WNBA. There's really no evidence that she can play the 4 at this level, even if it seems like she could in theory.


Thomas, in college, was a do-everything player who would give you 18 points, 10 rebounds, and 4 assists every night - from the four.

At her size and with her frame, I thought she would be an idea small forward in the WNBA. The only concern I had was her outside shot. Her three point shot was virtually non-existent - she did not take many and she did not make many. Yet, as Clay Kallam often notes, take a look at a player's free throw percentage to see if the player has the ability to hit a high percentage from that mid-range spot. If so, there is a chance that the three-point shot may develop (especially if the form and mechanics are good). Thomas was a 77.4 percent free throw shooter in college - and she made 557 free throws. Her sophomore year, she was over 80 percent from the line. In leading MD to the Final Four in her senior year, she was at 79.7 percent.

Yet in the W, the shooting has regressed - significantly. While a career 69.1 percent from the line in her three years, her percentage has gone down every year - from 75.7 percent to 65.2 percent to 63.4 percent. She has made one three point basket in her career (on five attempts, none taken since her rookie season).

Her overall shooting was better last year (over 48 percent). And her numbers were solid last season - 11.1 points, 6.0 rebounds (plus 2.3 assists, though 2.4 turnovers).

But CT is a flawed team in many ways. As I posted on the Boneyard last summer, Jasmine Thomas and Alex Bentley are a lot like Brandon Knight and Eric Bledsoe for the Suns (though Bledsoe has been a lot better this year). They are both combo guards who can score, but who can be volume shooters (with inconsistent outside shots) and not true playamkers or facilitators.

And with JasmineT (career 29.7 percent from three) and Bentley (career 31.4 percent from three) being so inconsistent, CT needs to have outside shooting from other sports on the floor (and a playmaker to get players the ball in the best possible position in terms of placement and how open the players is).

Yet CT had a frontcourt of Little/AlyssaT/Ogwumike starting most of the games last summer. None has a consistent outside shot - and it leaves the post undersized.

Little is gone. My guess with Ogwumike out (or missing significant time) is that Jonquel Jones is likely to start. You might see AlyssaT/Jones/Kizer up front. Or perhaps CT will look at trying Thomas at the four.

But either way, this team is in dire need of three-point shooting and for players, like Thomas, to really improve their outside shots in the offseason.


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PostPosted: 03/15/17 4:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm a little late to the party. But to piggyback on these other points, I want no part of either Currie or Thomas. Currie has lost at least a step, her shot selection is awful and she doesn't fit the Libs system. Z is flawed and smaller than Currie, but she is definitely the better of the 2.

On Thomas, the Libs would certainly post her up a lot, but otherwise in terms of fastbreak and spacing in the half court offense to penetrate I think she's also a poor fit. Her D is nothing special and her shot remains poor. I'd rather give Allen minutes and let her develop the upside into performance. Short version: if you can't get DeShields regardless of the package or get Christmas inexpensively, why bother? Nothing else is a clear upgrade. And in the process why mess with the upside of Allen unless the upgrade is crystal clear? Allen is a truly elite shooter with the athleticism to develop the other facets of the game.



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PostPosted: 03/15/17 4:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Queenie wrote:
No thanks on Danielle Adams. Been there, done that with Kara Braxton.


Yes and Adams is even less of a fit than Kara. The Libs are solid in the post. No need to mess with that part of the rotation unless you're acquiring a star in return.



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PostPosted: 03/19/17 2:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

54 days till opening day. FYI.



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PostPosted: 03/19/17 8:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
Queenie wrote:
No thanks on Danielle Adams. Been there, done that with Kara Braxton.


Yes and Adams is even less of a fit than Kara..


I would imagine that a city the size of New York has quite a few competent seamstresses.


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PostPosted: 03/19/17 8:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Laughing Good one. I mean Adams fits what the Liberty do about as well as Donald Trump is able to be truthful.



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PostPosted: 03/20/17 11:03 am    ::: An interview with Nayo Raincock-Ekunwe Reply Reply with quote

http://www.the-peak.ca/2017/03/an-interview-with-nayo-raincock-ekunwe-queen-of-the-basketball-courts/

Quote:
Next on the list for the 25-year-old is perhaps the greatest opportunity of her career to date, as she travels to New York for a training camp with WNBA team New York Liberty. It’s one which clearly excites Raincock-Ekunwe, with the chance to earn a contract at the highest level of women’s club basketball.

“It’s a huge opportunity. It’s very hard coming out of a Canadian school to make the NBA or WNBA — I don’t know of any female basketballers who have come out of Canada and made it to the WNBA — so it’s a huge chance to show Canadian schools can produce high-level athletes. I’m starting a pretty rigid training schedule to get all aspects of my game ready because it’ll be a whole other level of basketball.



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PostPosted: 03/30/17 2:21 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

assuming we are looking at a depth chart something like this

Prince/Boyd/Hartley
Rodgers/Schimmel/Alston/Barbee
Zellous/Allen/Raincock-Ekunwe
Charles/Zahui B/Burdick
Vauhn/Stokes

I've bolded the 9 sure things IMO (barring a trade)
I think Harltey, one of Raincock-Ekunwe and Burdick, and one of Schimmel, Alston and Barbee will get the remaining 3 spots.
Would any of these possible draftees be able to beat out the remaining candidates for a roster spot?
M. Epps, A. Prince, S. Cooper, L. Romero, T. Jankoska, L. Allen, E. McCall
If yes, why?
(Ps I wanted to get the NY thread back to the top of the page).


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PostPosted: 03/30/17 4:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
assuming we are looking at a depth chart something like this

Prince/Boyd/Hartley
Rodgers/Schimmel/Alston/Barbee
Zellous/Allen/Raincock-Ekunwe
Charles/Zahui B/Burdick
Vauhn/Stokes

I've bolded the 9 sure things IMO (barring a trade)
I think Harltey, one of Raincock-Ekunwe and Burdick, and one of Schimmel, Alston and Barbee will get the remaining 3 spots.
Would any of these possible draftees be able to beat out the remaining candidates for a roster spot?
M. Epps, A. Prince, S. Cooper, L. Romero, T. Jankoska, L. Allen, E. McCall
If yes, why?
(Ps I wanted to get the NY thread back to the top of the page).


-- I think there's very little chance Hartley gets cut unless something extreme happens -- like Shoni showing up in great shape and blowing everyone away.
-- NY has two slots to play with, so they can be a little indulgent and keep one player they like even if she isn't immediately useful. I think Epps falls into that category. We don't need another SG or combo guard, but she's got good size and Makayla is very competitive.
-- Alexis Prince would be a good fit because she plays SF. She can also provide a truly big SG if needed on defense since NY now has too many 5-9 types.
-- Cooper can be that 3/4 that we had in Cash. She's strong and athletic, which both Laimbeer and Isiah like. Personally, I'm not convinced that she can beat out either Burdick or Raincock-Ekunwe. I would bet on the feisty run-through-a-wall players over the "Why isn't she better?" athlete.
-- Romero is a player I've always liked because she seems smart and mature for her age. However, I'm not sure what she adds to NY in terms of skill or size or anything tangible.
-- Jankoska doesn't seem like a fit at all -- undersized, not athletic and primarily a small SG. If NY needed another long-range shooting SG, they would have been better off signing Whitcomb when she was available.
-- Lindsay Allen is a timely suggestion. I just started thinking about her for the Liberty yesterday. NY led the league in turnovers last season. You can certainly make an argument for adding a PG who provides ball security. Allen is arguably the best from a high level program. Now, is that enough to beat out Boyd or Hartley? I don't know. The rest of Allen's game is serviceable. She doesn't score much, but she seems to shoot OK and does take it to the hoop sometimes. Her defensive effort looks decent, although I can't shake the memory of Kiesel killing her two years ago. It's defintiely possible that Allen could help this team, but they'd have to trade Boyd or Hartley. I don't see them cutting either player.
-- McCall would fit into the open PF slot. She's athletic and plays with great energy. Currently, Erica looks good on defense and she's rebounding well. I just have no idea what happened to her offensive game. At this time last season, she had it all going -- inside game, mid-range, 3-pointers, everything. Now, she can't even hit a lay-up. More worrisome is the fact that McCall doesn't appear to understand the concept. A lay-up is not meant to be banged hard off the glass. Nor is it a sweeping hook shot high off the glass that misses the rim. The girl looks clueless. Why hasn't someone fixed this problem? Where are the coaches? Where are the Ogwumike sisters? Hell, just have her watch Alanna Smith! Hopefully, if NY drafts McCall, Bill and Herb can straighten her out.



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PostPosted: 03/30/17 5:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Evelyn Akhator?


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PostPosted: 03/30/17 6:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

basketballologist wrote:
Evelyn Akhator?


With her rebounding ability, reminds me a lot of Cheryl Ford


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PostPosted: 03/30/17 7:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

there's really no solid SF in this draft, so we're likely going for best available SF or a post. I see Akhator gone by #14. We don't need anymore guards, so we're likely left with the following: Ronni Williams, Shayla Cooper, Nina Davis, Jasmine Joyner or Hannah Little.



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PostPosted: 03/30/17 8:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

basketballologist wrote:
basketballologist wrote:
Evelyn Akhator?


With her rebounding ability, reminds me a lot of Cheryl Ford


reminds me of GloJo.



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PostPosted: 03/30/17 8:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
there's really no solid SF in this draft, so we're likely going for best available SF or a post. I see Akhator gone by #14. We don't need anymore guards, so we're likely left with the following: Ronni Williams, Shayla Cooper, Nina Davis, Jasmine Joyner or Hannah Little.


Williams is a bit of tweener forward that doesn't shoot the three. Do you think Prince will be gone by #14?



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PostPosted: 03/31/17 1:09 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Draft variations
If I was picking with my heart I would go (Schimmel or Epps)

Prince/Boyd
Rodgers/Hartley/Schimmel or #14 Epps
Zellous/Allen
Charles/Zahui B./Burdick
Vaughn/Stokes

the A. Prince Variation (or N. Davis)

Prince/Boyd/Hartley
Rodgers/Zellous
Allen/A. Prince (or N. Davis)
Charles/Zahui B/Burdick
Vaughn/Stokes

the Cooper/Schimmel variation

Prince/Boyd/Hartley
Rodgers/Zellous/Schimmel
Allen/Cooper
Charles/Zahui B.
Vaughn/Stokes

the L. Allen

Prince/Boyd/Allen
Rodgers/Hartley
Zellous/Allen
Charles/Zahui B/Burdick
Vaughn/Stokes

The E. McCall go bigger style (this could also be a variation with Cooper)

Prince/Boyd/Hartley
Rodgers/Zellous
Allen/Burdick
Charles/Zahui B/McCall (or Cooper)
Vaughn/Stokes

Anywhere it says Burdick you can substitute Raincock-Ekunwe if you prefer, anywhere it says Schimmel you can sub in Alston or Barbee if you prefer.


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PostPosted: 03/31/17 11:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon taking a classical composer approach with all the variations. Smile



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PostPosted: 03/31/17 12:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
J-Spoon taking a classical composer approach with all the variations. Smile

Are you suggesting that Laimbeer is something of an enigma? Smile



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PostPosted: 03/31/17 12:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
root_thing wrote:
J-Spoon taking a classical composer approach with all the variations. Smile

Are you suggesting that Laimbeer is something of an enigma? Smile


Nice. I was actually thinking about Bach and some other people, but not Elgar. But to your point, it's this draft that is an enigma rather than Laimbeer.



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PostPosted: 04/01/17 9:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA Fan Page actually wrote something interesting...saying that he heard the Liberty were inquiring about Aerial Powers. While I wouldn't take that in of itself as meaning anything, it does actually sound like the sort of thing the Liberty would be looking for. Of course, an inquiry could just mean the Libs asked and were told that Powers is not on the market. But just saying, acquiring a small forward with strength and athleticism to create matchup advantages is probably exactly what the Libs are trying to do.

That said, I'm not sure what they could trade for any SF right now. I'd rather have Rodgers than Powers for several reasons, and would see that type of trade being nothing more than a lateral move. I could see Dallas having moderate interest in Boyd, but don't think Boyd plus a first rounder would come close to piquing Dallas' interest enough to trade Powers. Or for that matter any team looking to trade an impactful small forward.

But do I think there's legitimacy to the idea that this type of player is what the Libs are looking for? Without a doubt.



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PostPosted: 04/01/17 9:16 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I saw that, too. Maybe Laimbeer is dumping Prince? But would she show up in Dallas? Stokes for Powers straight up? WNBA Fan Page sometimes posts inside info that comes true. Sometimes it's probably just his wishful thinking. We will see if anything pans out from this.



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PostPosted: 04/01/17 9:20 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think Prince wants to be solely in NY. And there was an article where Laimbeer said Tina specifically requested that Prince be acquired. Not only do I think she's not going anywhere from those standpoints, but I think that would leave us without anyone on the roster to score and create for other players.

Stokes is the centerpiece of the team defensively. Adding Powers would strengthen the team's offense. Trading Stokes would be trading away the core of the defense. You're already down Wright, Cash and Swords, who each gave the team a certain physical presence that they no longer have. Trading Stokes would be the final nail in the coffin to ensure the Libs would be a bottom half defensive team.



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PostPosted: 04/01/17 11:46 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

My suggestion for a low risk/high reward roll of the dice would be to draft Jennie Simms of Old Dominion at #14. I've only seen her play twice, but from that and some video clips, she looks to have pro-level athleticism. Throw in the fact that Simms is second in the nation in scoring, and now the story gets interesting. Usually, mid-major players who are among the nation's leading scorers turn out to be 5-8 volume shooting SGs, much like Precious Hall who sits third in the nation. Simms is a 6-0 PG and she looks quick enough to stay there. Now, is she as quick as a normal sized PG? No, but you have to compare her to the other big guards who have played PG recently in the WNBA -- Taurasi, Tanisha Wright, Chelsea Gray, Xargay, Cloud, Dabovic, etc. Simms looks as quick or quicker than any of those players. Regarding the numbers, she scores 26 ppg on efficient shooting across the board: 47.4% FG, 38.2% 3Pt (63-165), 79.6% FT. Her shooting form is good, and Simms scores in a variety of ways. Jennie is a willing defender who is active when ODU applies their press. As far as I know, there are no injury issues or off court problems. Simms' coach can't say enough nice things about her.

So, why isn't Simms going higher in the draft? Obviously, mid-major level competition is one negative. However, the big fly in the ointment is her whopping 5.2 TOs per game versus 4.3 assists. Not exactly what we need on a Liberty team that already leads the league in TOs. However, from what I've seen, it's a fixable problem. Most of those TOs come off over-aggressive passing. For instance, she'll stand at the top of the 3-Pt arc and fire a one-handed pass off the dribble to a teammate located in the corner. The pass sails high or wide. So, you need to train her to pass the ball with two hands or dribble closer to make a shorter pass. Another problem is trying to squeeze entry passes into post players through a sea of bodies. The answer is to not throw the pass or dribble around until you find a better angle. At least we're talking about targeted passes not thrown under duress. To me, that's better than a player who goes one-on-one too much, dribbles into a crowd, and then has to make desperation passes to unload the ball. Nor is it as bad as players who throw blind passes to no one because they didn't bother to look. It's certainly not as worrisome as a player with a weak handle who gets her pocket picked regularly. Again, I'm not saying that the TOs aren't a concern. I just think a decision-making problem is less serious in a young player than lack of skill or a selfish mindset. The silver lining here is that you have a big scorer who is also a willing passer. Worst case scenario, you use her more at SG or SF. Simms could provide backup at 3 positions. Best case scenario, you just found yourself another potent scorer. New York already has a lot of guards, but they are mostly smallish. Simms represents an opportunity to add needed size on defense.

So, that's my case for Jennie Simms. We cut the #12 pick without blinking an eye last season. It looks to me like Simms could be a high ceiling player, and using the #14 to get her is a cheap way of finding out.



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PostPosted: 04/02/17 9:11 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Regarding DeShields not declaring, if that's true, that changes the landscape of both the 2017 and 2018 drafts markedly. If next year's draft was regarded as deep without DD and Mitchell, then it will be that much deeper with them involved. So, if a Liberty 2018 first round pick is in play as trade bait on draft day, that makes it a little more valuable than it might have been a few weeks ago.

Unrelated, it also means that Chicago got absolutely killed in the Delle Donne trade. At least if they would have gotten DD or Plum, the potential was there to receive a dynamic offensive player. Now they get neither.



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PostPosted: 04/02/17 9:18 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I hope DeShields realizes that she may not even be a lottery pick in 2018.



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PostPosted: 04/02/17 10:43 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
Regarding DeShields not declaring, if that's true, that changes the landscape of both the 2017 and 2018 drafts markedly. If next year's draft was regarded as deep without DD and Mitchell, then it will be that much deeper with them involved. So, if a Liberty 2018 first round pick is in play as trade bait on draft day, that makes it a little more valuable than it might have been a few weeks ago.


It won't be so dramatic for the bottom of the 2018 first round, which I assume is where you want to be. In the bottom of the first round there'll be good players, but you'll have to use eval skills to make sure you find the right good player for you. It'll be easier to mess that up in the bottom of the first round than the top.



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PostPosted: 04/02/17 10:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
Regarding DeShields not declaring, if that's true, that changes the landscape of both the 2017 and 2018 drafts markedly. If next year's draft was regarded as deep without DD and Mitchell, then it will be that much deeper with them involved. So, if a Liberty 2018 first round pick is in play as trade bait on draft day, that makes it a little more valuable than it might have been a few weeks ago.


It won't be so dramatic for the bottom of the 2018 first round, which I assume is where you want to be. In the bottom of the first round there'll be good players, but you'll have to use eval skills to make sure you find the right good player for you. It'll be easier to mess that up in the bottom of the first round than the top.


Hope you're right. She'll fit right in with the Sparks. Laughing



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PostPosted: 04/04/17 9:43 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
I hope DeShields realizes that she may not even be a lottery pick in 2018.


Laughing Diamond will go top 4.People on this board are really devaluing Diamond while overrating Gray/Davis.Some people seem to forget that Diamond and the lady vols won in south carolina.Diamond outplayed Gray/Davis.Diamond put up excellent numbers against the team USC just beat to win the NC:

Diamond vs msst:
Gm 1:25p/9r/2a/2b
Gm 2:20p/6r/5r

Davis shot 35%fg for 85% of the season.Gray had games where she was nonexistent.It's a matter of perspective...People expect Diamond top be a superstar,and rightfully so.While Gray/Davis are role players.So when they perform better than expected,people start to overrate them as propects.But when Gray/Davis have pedestrian performances,people are sllent.For example,the uconn/usc game:

Davis:3p/2r/0a/5t/1-10 fg in 25 minutes
Gray:7p/2r/2a/2s/4t/3-7 fg in 38 minutes

Had Diamond put up either one of these stat lines,she would've never heard the last of it.If you think Minnesota or New york would pass on Diamond at the back end of the 1st rd,you are crazy.


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PostPosted: 04/04/17 9:56 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
toad455 wrote:
I hope DeShields realizes that she may not even be a lottery pick in 2018.


Laughing Diamond will go top 4.People on this board are really devaluing Diamond while overrating Gray/Davis


The problem seems to be that you're not too familiar with the 2018 prospects.
Wilson, Williams, Mitchell, and Turner would be a good early call for the lottery.

Stevens and Collier will be eligibles.



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PostPosted: 04/04/17 10:00 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
zune69 wrote:
toad455 wrote:
I hope DeShields realizes that she may not even be a lottery pick in 2018.


Laughing Diamond will go top 4.People on this board are really devaluing Diamond while overrating Gray/Davis


The problem seems to be that you're not too familiar with the 2018 prospects.
Wilson, Williams, Mitchell, and Turner would be a good early call for the lottery.

Stevens and Collier will be eligibles.


I doubt teams take a chance on turner before Diamond especially wiht the knee issues. Wilson is #1 no doubt . Mitchell & Diamond are the interesting picks of this draft both could become the best players in this draft but both could become just mediocre . I doubt mitchell does but diamond has the tools to be special and i know the GM's see it . Next year will be awesome.



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