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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 02/27/17 5:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:

I'm not against a trade I'm just becoming more skeptical that there is one out there that will help more than it might possible hurt, and the fact that a lot has already happened makes it seems less possible than it did a few weeks ago. I'm also pretty weary of trading Stokes unless it for someone game changing, and even though I like both Zellous and Wright (the other players I could see being traded) I'm not sure what they bring back will be anything more than a lateral move.


I've gone back and forth in my mind on how significant I think a roster addition will be. When Rodgers signed back with the Libs, my reaction was, ok, she's not likely to be traded. Somehow I remember there being some sort of restriction on when you could trade a re-signed RFA, but I'm not sure if that's accurate. If there are no restrictions on her being traded, then...

I know there are people who would not mind a Piph/Rodgers backcourt. I myself think it would be intriguing. But is that something LFO intends to do? I just don't foresee a lineup with Piph being the initial on-ball defender and there being only one of the 3 perimeter positions where a player really dictates things defensively as well as from some sort of athletic/physical standpoint. It's just not the Laimbeer way.

Yet, at the same time, re-signing Rodgers just to trade her after all the hard work she has put in with Spoon is not a good look either. Not for future free agents who might consider the Libs as a possibility. Sugar has put in the work and demonstrated the character to the point where I think her best days are still in front of her. Based on that, business aside, Sugar fully deserves an opportunity to show her stuff in NY.

So even in the best interests of the team, I'm kind of conflicted. If Rodgers stays, how many minutes will she actually play? From strictly a basketball standpoint you want your best players on the floor for 28-30 minutes a night at least. The only way that happens is if Piph and Sugar share time...something I personally don't think is likely. Yet I think trading her would also not be a good look. And that's not counting that I don't even know if there's a restriction on trading re-signed RFAs.

With Kia's early-season absence, I also don't see any of the post players being dealt.

So...what now? I'm asking from what is legitimate confusion. Tina and Piph are both in their prime and not far from being on the wrong side of it. The time to capitalize on the nucleus is now. I see this as a very pivotal season for the franchise. Thus the importance I'm placing on what transpires this off-season.



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Luuuc



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PostPosted: 02/27/17 6:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Hard to say what's hiding under the black sweats, but Schimmel still seems a bit on the puffy side. Only a couple months until camp starts.



This photo makes me realise that it's about time Ugg entered the athletic footwear market.



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PostPosted: 02/27/17 6:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
J-Spoon wrote:

I'm not against a trade I'm just becoming more skeptical that there is one out there that will help more than it might possible hurt, and the fact that a lot has already happened makes it seems less possible than it did a few weeks ago. I'm also pretty weary of trading Stokes unless it for someone game changing, and even though I like both Zellous and Wright (the other players I could see being traded) I'm not sure what they bring back will be anything more than a lateral move.


I've gone back and forth in my mind on how significant I think a roster addition will be. When Rodgers signed back with the Libs, my reaction was, ok, she's not likely to be traded. Somehow I remember there being some sort of restriction on when you could trade a re-signed RFA, but I'm not sure if that's accurate. If there are no restrictions on her being traded, then...

I know there are people who would not mind a Piph/Rodgers backcourt. I myself think it would be intriguing. But is that something LFO intends to do? I just don't foresee a lineup with Piph being the initial on-ball defender and there being only one of the 3 perimeter positions where a player really dictates things defensively as well as from some sort of athletic/physical standpoint. It's just not the Laimbeer way.

Yet, at the same time, re-signing Rodgers just to trade her after all the hard work she has put in with Spoon is not a good look either. Not for future free agents who might consider the Libs as a possibility. Sugar has put in the work and demonstrated the character to the point where I think her best days are still in front of her. Based on that, business aside, Sugar fully deserves an opportunity to show her stuff in NY.

So even in the best interests of the team, I'm kind of conflicted. If Rodgers stays, how many minutes will she actually play? From strictly a basketball standpoint you want your best players on the floor for 28-30 minutes a night at least. The only way that happens is if Piph and Sugar share time...something I personally don't think is likely. Yet I think trading her would also not be a good look. And that's not counting that I don't even know if there's a restriction on trading re-signed RFAs.

With Kia's early-season absence, I also don't see any of the post players being dealt.

So...what now? I'm asking from what is legitimate confusion. Tina and Piph are both in their prime and not far from being on the wrong side of it. The time to capitalize on the nucleus is now. I see this as a very pivotal season for the franchise. Thus the importance I'm placing on what transpires this off-season.


It's reasonable to be confused or uncertain. You are not alone. Here's my guess, just a guess.

Looks to me like Bill Laimbeer's approach to the offseason has been to stockpile as many talented players as he can, see if various trades are possible (he has made one), and plan to figure it all out in training camp and the first half of the season. He may have a list of questions--for example, "Can it work to play Prince and Rodgers together in the backcourt for 25-30 minutes?"--for which he's not sure of the answer. Just as we aren't.

I keep coming back to the fact that there are a significant number of talented younger players on the roster. They won't ALL improve in 2017 as we might hope. But if two or three of them improve significantly, it'll be a very different team than in 2016.

We're fans. We want answers now. But Bill Laimbeer may have made peace with the fact that important questions may not be answered till at least midseason.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 02/27/17 7:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

That's all reasonable. And even if there's something behind the scenes in principle involving the 2018 first-rounder, a trade involving 2018 draft choices can't be made until the 2017 draft. So I'd say the absolute earliest we will know something more is in mid-April.

Just gotta be patient. A trait that I do not possess in abundance at this time of the year.



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 02/27/17 8:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm also at a loss, and I'm very torn, I almost fear a trade as much as I think one would be exciting.

Also, I'm not sure if it is in her DNA as a player, but I wonder if they might consider bring Prince off the bench? In the R. Williams J. Crawford on the Clippers kind of role. Stokes was able to get starter minute of the bench last season so even if Prince is coming off the bench she could still get 22-27 minutes a night. This could work on a lot of levels, one if they start Wright at PG they might feel more comfortable starting Allen instead of Zellous, who I think for a number of reasons mostly handle becomes the default starter at the SF with a Prince/Rodgers back-court, because then you basically have 3 players on the perimeter who can handle the PG spot by committee if you aren't completely confident in Prince in that role full-time. Also Prince can become the #1 option on offense when you rest Charles.

So maybe

Wright/Boyd
Rodgers/Prince
Allen/Zellous
Charles/Zahui B
Stokes/Vaughn

Burdick and Raicock-Ekunwe can fight it out for the tweener 3/4 spot in camp and maybe even in a few actual games until Vaughn reports.

And Hartley, Scimmel, Barbee and Alston can fight for the 12th spot, with #14 joining one of the scrums post or perimeter depending on position.

I still think Hartley/Burdick will have a slight edge.

So while that isn't game changing I can get behind this team and still look to youth improvement and health as a way to take a step forward. I'm still struggling to see that realistic better option, but I guess we'll see eventually no matter which route we go.


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PostPosted: 02/27/17 9:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:

So maybe

Wright/Boyd
Rodgers/Prince
Allen/Zellous
Charles/Zahui B
Stokes/Vaughn



It just doesn't look like a championship lineup to me. More like middle of the pack. You have Bill coaching which probably makes it a little better than that, but this is not a good year to be so-so. Good enough to miss out on the best 2018 draft picks but not good enough to really contend.



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PostPosted: 02/27/17 9:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
J-Spoon wrote:

So maybe

Wright/Boyd
Rodgers/Prince
Allen/Zellous
Charles/Zahui B
Stokes/Vaughn



It just doesn't look like a championship lineup to me. More like middle of the pack. You have Bill coaching which probably makes it a little better than that, but this is not a good year to be so-so. Good enough to miss out on the best 2018 draft picks but not good enough to really contend.


Yeah that is the problem that has me spinning my wheels.

Indy pulled it off with one star and some other nice pieces, but all other recent champs are basically all-star teams with some role player.


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PostPosted: 03/03/17 7:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Good, in-depth interview with Bec Allen from the "At Liberty 2 Speak" series:
https://soundcloud.com/user-988747909/rebecca-allen-on-at-liberty-2-speak

She sounds very positive about her form, her health, and the Libs Smile



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PostPosted: 03/03/17 9:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
J-Spoon wrote:

I'm not against a trade I'm just becoming more skeptical that there is one out there that will help more than it might possible hurt, and the fact that a lot has already happened makes it seems less possible than it did a few weeks ago. I'm also pretty weary of trading Stokes unless it for someone game changing, and even though I like both Zellous and Wright (the other players I could see being traded) I'm not sure what they bring back will be anything more than a lateral move.


I've gone back and forth in my mind on how significant I think a roster addition will be. When Rodgers signed back with the Libs, my reaction was, ok, she's not likely to be traded. Somehow I remember there being some sort of restriction on when you could trade a re-signed RFA, but I'm not sure if that's accurate. If there are no restrictions on her being traded, then...

I know there are people who would not mind a Piph/Rodgers backcourt. I myself think it would be intriguing. But is that something LFO intends to do? I just don't foresee a lineup with Piph being the initial on-ball defender and there being only one of the 3 perimeter positions where a player really dictates things defensively as well as from some sort of athletic/physical standpoint. It's just not the Laimbeer way.

Yet, at the same time, re-signing Rodgers just to trade her after all the hard work she has put in with Spoon is not a good look either. Not for future free agents who might consider the Libs as a possibility. Sugar has put in the work and demonstrated the character to the point where I think her best days are still in front of her. Based on that, business aside, Sugar fully deserves an opportunity to show her stuff in NY.

So even in the best interests of the team, I'm kind of conflicted. If Rodgers stays, how many minutes will she actually play? From strictly a basketball standpoint you want your best players on the floor for 28-30 minutes a night at least. The only way that happens is if Piph and Sugar share time...something I personally don't think is likely. Yet I think trading her would also not be a good look. And that's not counting that I don't even know if there's a restriction on trading re-signed RFAs.

With Kia's early-season absence, I also don't see any of the post players being dealt.

So...what now? I'm asking from what is legitimate confusion. Tina and Piph are both in their prime and not far from being on the wrong side of it. The time to capitalize on the nucleus is now. I see this as a very pivotal season for the franchise. Thus the importance I'm placing on what transpires this off-season.


If you match another team's offer sheet you have to keep them...cant then trade them...if they sign on their own accord fair game (example: Alex Montgomery) that's they way I interpited it given the Montgomery trade



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PostPosted: 03/04/17 12:39 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
Good, in-depth interview with Bec Allen from the "At Liberty 2 Speak" series:
https://soundcloud.com/user-988747909/rebecca-allen-on-at-liberty-2-speak

She sounds very positive about her form, her health, and the Libs Smile


Allen suggests that she wasn't 100% last season -- playing with pain and without her normal athleticism. Still, Bec performed well and she was one of the few Liberty able to run with Boyd. Now, Allen is healthy and it sounds like she will arrive in time for all of training camp. Nice that she cited working with T-Spoon as a highlight of playing for the team. One thing I can say about Bec is that I've seen a definite improvement in her game. So, there are lots of positive signs where she is concerned.



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PostPosted: 03/04/17 8:50 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Unless another move/trade is made, I still wouldn't be surprised if come May 13 that Allen is our starting SF.

PG: Prince/Boyd/Hartley
SG: Rodgers/Wright
SF: Allen/Zellous
PF: Charles/Zahui B.
C: Vaughn/Stokes
12th: Burdick, Raincock-Ekunwe, Barbee or #14 pick.*

*If two of these players look better than Hartley, it's possible we keep a guard & a post and Hartley gets waived.



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PostPosted: 03/04/17 11:56 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I agree that's probably the roster we'll see if they can't pull-off a deal, but it sure looks awkward and likely to cause discontent. Maybe it's okay on paper, but in terms of dollars and minutes, it makes no sense to have Rodgers, Prince, Zellous, and Wright on the same roster. They are all likely earning max-salaries, and all are best at 2-guard. Even if you argue that Prince and Wright are adequate PGs, you'd still end up with two of these players as backups. That's two max-salary backup guards. Then, do we assume Boyd plays zero minutes? You could push Wright or Zellous up to SF, but both are subpar at that position. So, you'd be paying max-money for below average performance. I don't think Zellous played very much SF for the Liberty last year -- probably only the first 3 games when Cash was gone, and then again in the Phoenix playoff when Laimbeer decided not to use Allen. During those first three games of the season, and the next two after Cash returned, Wright was the starting SF -- not Zellous. Shavonte played a lot of SF for Indiana because they liked using that small line-up with Catchings at the 4. The goal was to force a mismatch with smaller players isolated on big slow defenders, and then go one-on-one. It worked for the Fever, but New York doesn't play that way... unless Bill wants to change.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 03/05/17 1:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Two things on that. I agree first off. There's going to be a move in my mind, probably a significant one to create a more balanced roster. I think we will have to wait till April to see it but it'll happen.

And Catchings enabled Indiana to function as an undersized group because she could do so many things so well, including will her team to victory and handle and pass like a guard while playing the four spot. As good as Tina is, she doesn't have the extent of versatility Catchings did. I'd put the likelihood at zero that the Liberty do small ball this year...or any year Laimbeer is the coach.



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PostPosted: 03/05/17 1:52 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:

And Catchings enabled Indiana to function as an undersized group because she could do so many things so well, including will her team to victory and handle and pass like a guard while playing the four spot. As good as Tina is, she doesn't have the extent of versatility Catchings did. I'd put the likelihood at zero that the Liberty do small ball this year...or any year Laimbeer is the coach.


That's smart.



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PostPosted: 03/09/17 9:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://www.instagram.com/p/BRcMxW-FQtC/?taken-by=wnbahoopz

Quote:
Tanisha Wright is sitting out the 2017 season to let her body heal and recover from injuries.



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PostPosted: 03/09/17 9:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I was waiting for some info on Wright and I'm a little bummed. The core thing always seemed a little weird to me. I'm wondering if there is more to the story, but at least we know where things stand for 2017.


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PostPosted: 03/09/17 9:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

OK Shoni Schimmel the door just got opened for you. If you want it, come in and prove it and grab that 12th spot. I'm rooting for you 100% (no offense to Alston, Barbee or the #14 pick).


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PostPosted: 03/09/17 9:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

no Wright doesn't make Schimmel a lock. There's still Barbee & the #14 pick to compete with. I'd say this makes Prince our starting PG and either Allen or Zellous the starting SF.

PG: Prince/Boyd/Hartley
SG: Rodgers/Zellous
SF: Allen/Barbee or Burdick
PF: Charles/Zahui B.
C: Vaughn/Stokes
12th: Raincock-Ekunwe, #14 pick or Schimmel



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PostPosted: 03/09/17 9:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

it hasn't been posted where the Liberty's "home" preseason game will be held. MSG is available in May 7, so I wonder if it'll be there or somewhere else.



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PostPosted: 03/09/17 9:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I would do something like this

Prince/Boyd/Hartley
Rodgers/Zellous/Schimmel
Allen/Burdick or Raincock-Ekunwe
Charles/Zahui B
Stokes/Vaughn

Go small by shifting Zellous to the 3 and Burdick or R-E to the 4 in some line ups.

well until a trade happens we'll have a battle between Schimmel, Alston and Barbee for one spot.

And Burdick and Raincock-Ekunwe for the other.

Ad #14 Epps, A. Prince, S Copper, McCall or other could steal someone's job right out from under them.


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PostPosted: 03/09/17 10:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

By the way, posted here first: www.facebook.com/wnbafanspage/


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PostPosted: 03/09/17 11:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nerd2 wrote:
By the way, posted here first: www.facebook.com/wnbafanspage/

Oh gawd, not that place ... that's the page that copies Barcoff's news but sneakily posts it up hours/days before him just to try and be up to date. Also how can we take that page seriously when they're not close personal friends with 90% or even 85% of the league's players?? Please. And what kind of loser actually pays money to get in to games? Don't they realise that their money ends up with the team and the league? lol ... sad ...



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PostPosted: 03/09/17 11:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
Nerd2 wrote:
By the way, posted here first: www.facebook.com/wnbafanspage/

Oh gawd, not that place ... that's the page that copies Barcoff's news but sneakily posts it up hours/days before him just to try and be up to date. Also how can we take that page seriously when they're not close personal friends with 90% or even 85% of the league's players?? Please. And what kind of loser actually pays money to get in to games? Don't they realise that their money ends up with the team and the league? lol ... sad ...


No selfies, either. What's a site without selfies?


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PostPosted: 03/09/17 11:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think Amanda Zahui B will have a breakout year. Both Shoni and Ameryst Alston really have a shot at making the squad now. I hope Bec Allen can make her mark as well. I just feel that the Liberty knew some of this was coming and have more of a plan than we fans can see right now.


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PostPosted: 03/09/17 11:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Major loss of veteran leadership with both Cash and Wright gone.

Opens the way for more playing time for Zellous, Hartley, and especially Boyd, depending on who plays best.

Narrows trade options a bit, less depth on the roster.



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PostPosted: 03/09/17 11:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
I was waiting for some info on Wright and I'm a little bummed. The core thing always seemed a little weird to me. I'm wondering if there is more to the story, but at least we know where things stand for 2017.


I'd be grateful if someone who understands these things--I certainly don't--could explain or at least guess about how it is that Wright gets cored and then announces she's sitting out the season. I suppose this sequence could be a coincidence, but indeed it seems like "there is more to the story" as is speculated by J-Spoon.



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PostPosted: 03/09/17 11:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Are these sources reliable? Not that I'd be surprised if Wright were sitting out, but I don't see anything on the Liberty website or their social media. Nor are there comments from other Liberty players.



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PostPosted: 03/10/17 12:01 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The less suspicious theory is that management couldn't get any kind of assurance from Wright that she was going sign with the Liberty in 2017, so they thought she might leave and cored her, when the truth was she was considering sitting out, but simply didn't want to make the final decision until closer to the season.

The more suspicious theory would be that Wright wanted to go somewhere else specific, NY cored her to prevent that from happening. A deal with that other destination didn't work out, so Wright decided to rest instead of playing in NY this upcoming season.

#1 seem much more likely


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PostPosted: 03/10/17 12:05 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

On a different note in the SA thread there was a short conversation about a trade of Zellous for Currie, any opinions? (NY could also throw in the #14 pick if that made the difference.) I know some have suggested Currie before in this thread as solution for our lack of true SFs.


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PostPosted: 03/10/17 12:18 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
On a different note in the SA thread there was a short conversation about a trade of Zellous for Currie, any opinions? (NY could also throw in the #14 pick if that made the difference.) I know some have suggested Currie before in this thread as solution for our lack of true SFs.


Where were you in September? Wink Richyyy made that trade proposal on page 1 of this thread. Given our logjam at SG, I think people were OK with it, although some fans think only a blockbuster deal will make a real difference.



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PostPosted: 03/10/17 12:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
J-Spoon wrote:
On a different note in the SA thread there was a short conversation about a trade of Zellous for Currie, any opinions? (NY could also throw in the #14 pick if that made the difference.) I know some have suggested Currie before in this thread as solution for our lack of true SFs.


Where were you in September? Wink Richyyy made that trade proposal on page 1 of this thread. Given our logjam at SG, I think people were OK with it, although some fans think only a blockbuster deal will make a real difference.


September and page 1 of this thread seems so log ago now, my how time flies when were discussing the same few things over and over again.

I'm kind of mixed on the idea myself, it makes sense in terms of need, but I like Zellous more than Currie. Not that I have anything against Currie, I just have always liked rooting for Zellous and never felt one way or the other about Currie.


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PostPosted: 03/10/17 1:13 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:

September and page 1 of this thread seems so log ago now, my how time flies when were discussing the same few things over and over again.

I'm kind of mixed on the idea myself, it makes sense in terms of need, but I like Zellous more than Currie. Not that I have anything against Currie, I just have always liked rooting for Zellous and never felt one way or the other about Currie.


Since backup SF is vacant, the theory is that having a real SF like Currie is better than shoving an undersized SG into the position. When Cash was out, the Liberty struggled a bit with rebounding. It's not only the grabbing of rebounds that matters but also the boxing out and battling underneath to keep loose balls in play. Most guards don't seem to have the mentality -- partly because they don't have the size. Currie is also a stockier SF, which NY needs to defend against the muscular Alyssa Thomas and Karima Christmas types.



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PostPosted: 03/10/17 11:23 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
The less suspicious theory is that management couldn't get any kind of assurance from Wright that she was going sign with the Liberty in 2017, so they thought she might leave and cored her, when the truth was she was considering sitting out, but simply didn't want to make the final decision until closer to the season.

The more suspicious theory would be that Wright wanted to go somewhere else specific, NY cored her to prevent that from happening. A deal with that other destination didn't work out, so Wright decided to rest instead of playing in NY this upcoming season.

#1 seem much more likely


Thanks for these theories and your analysis.



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PostPosted: 03/10/17 11:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
J-Spoon wrote:

September and page 1 of this thread seems so log ago now, my how time flies when were discussing the same few things over and over again.

I'm kind of mixed on the idea myself, it makes sense in terms of need, but I like Zellous more than Currie. Not that I have anything against Currie, I just have always liked rooting for Zellous and never felt one way or the other about Currie.


Since backup SF is vacant, the theory is that having a real SF like Currie is better than shoving an undersized SG into the position. When Cash was out, the Liberty struggled a bit with rebounding. It's not only the grabbing of rebounds that matters but also the boxing out and battling underneath to keep loose balls in play. Most guards don't seem to have the mentality -- partly because they don't have the size. Currie is also a stockier SF, which NY needs to defend against the muscular Alyssa Thomas and Karima Christmas types.


If there isn't going to be a bigger trade, then a move like this makes sense to me. I like Zellous as a player. But, given the current roster--and even with Wright not playing this season--Zellous seems expendable if New York can get a bulkier SF to share the position with Allen. I don't want to see Zellous as our #2 SF, just as I didn't want to see Wright in that position.



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PostPosted: 03/10/17 1:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Something like Zellous-Currie certainly makes sense for New York, but I'm not sure if it's of huge benefit to San Antonio. Zellous is the younger player, who you'd expect to have more left, but after her injury issues in Indiana she's been pretty awful the last two years. It probably ends up depending on character, and who San Antonio think would be of more help in aiding the development of their young core (Jefferson, McBride, and whoever they draft this year - quite possible DeShields). I don't know enough about Zellous or Currie to know if either would be significantly better in that respect.

Potentially more interesting than the 3 - I actually like Rebecca Allen, and think Laimbeer being forced to play her more could be a good thing - is what New York are going to do at the point. With Wright out, and question marks continuing over Boyd, is Hartley the next option? Laimbeer's never looked all that interested in using Prince as a point guard, and she's not even playing it in Europe at the moment (she's basically the 2 next to Anna Cruz's PG for Kursk). Does the Schimmel experiment get another year? It's almost like San Antonio's post situation - let's just bring in a crapload of options and hope one or two of them work out well enough.



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PostPosted: 03/10/17 5:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This is where I wish the Liberty signed Rachel Jarry. Rodgers, Zellous & Prince could of split time at SG with Allen & Jarry splitting time at SF. Prince still starts at PG. Now we're left with a big hole at SF, especially if Allen doesn't work out.



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PostPosted: 03/10/17 6:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Prince has actually played a good amount of PG in the last couple of games I've watched. However, it leads to a walk-it-up-the-court and then have someone go one-on-one offense. That won't work in New York. There's also the question of how well Prince can defend against quick PGs. The coaches have a lot to figure out, but my guess is that Prince still gets first crack at the starting job, followed by Boyd. I do believe that Hartley was brought in to be a third option. She's the fall-back plan if Prince is too slow and Boyd can't shoot.



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PostPosted: 03/11/17 3:19 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Now that we know Wright is not returning, all the other moves make sense. I think starting PG is Piph's job to lose because you want that opportunity to have multiple scorers on the floor. Perhaps on defense Sugar will guard PGs to save Piph from being the first defender on the ball.

But it seems very clear what we have. Rodgers will get a deserved chance to play major minutes. We will have a "big 3" offensively for the first time in the Laimbeer era, which is exciting. We also know Allen was not 100% physically last year, so maybe this year she has more to give.

Extremely different team this year. Definitely better offensively. Defense and rebounding to be determined. This may just be our group. Wright not returning clears the logjam of guards, and it explains the Hartley acquisition.



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PostPosted: 03/11/17 10:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I wonder if this is why Bill was saying lead guard was the position of need during the holiday party... though that would imply the Libs have had some idea of this since December.



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PostPosted: 03/11/17 10:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I have to imagine Wright's done. If she were to return in 2018, she'll be 35. She wasn't exactly in her prime last season, so would the Liberty be willing to give her a one year deal in 2018? Would Laimbeer & Co. bring her back similar to what the Liberty did in 2016 with Cash?



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PostPosted: 03/11/17 3:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Watching Piph's last game and she looks fantastic. The mobility is there. Cruz is the primary PG for Kursk but Piph's creativity was on display both scoring and passing from both the 2 and 1 spots. We know a Laimbeer offense doesn't really require a pure PG so I don't really expect it to be an issue on offense. And to me most importantly Piph appears 100% healthy. As long as that continues she'll be fine for the Libs in 2017.



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PostPosted: 03/11/17 4:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
Watching Piph's last game and she looks fantastic. The mobility is there. Cruz is the primary PG for Kursk but Piph's creativity was on display both scoring and passing from both the 2 and 1 spots. We know a Laimbeer offense doesn't really require a pure PG so I don't really expect it to be an issue on offense. And to me most importantly Piph appears 100% healthy. As long as that continues she'll be fine for the Libs in 2017.


I have to think that Prince and Rodgers will be the starting guards and each will play lots of minutes. Worth noting, though, is that Wright still will be missed. If the roster remains as it is, the team will likely need solid minutes off the bench at guard from at least two of the following: Zellous, Boyd, Hartley, and any other guard on the roster. (And if Zellous is playing significant minutes at SF, then Boyd and Hartley become even more important.)



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PostPosted: 03/11/17 5:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I feel like Z is a nice scoring option off the bench and Hartley gives an outside shooting dimension that Boyd doesn't have. So I'm not really worried from an offensive standpoint.

I do feel, however, that there will be drastic changes in terms of team defense, physicality and rebounding. The defense will likely be at least ok, but it's definitely going to be different. Subtracting Wright, Cash and Swords may not seem like a big deal, but they provided the only physical and/or size advantages that the team had. While the team will be talented offensively, I'm wondering how they're not going to take a hit on the defensive end.

And we haven't even discussed the leadership angle. The only vocal veteran on the team is Zellous and she's in just her second year on the team and is not a facilitator. So who steps in and helps in that role? That's a pretty big deal.

All this said, the Libs have the look of a potent offensive team. One that can finally get 3 or 4 scorers on the floor simultaneously. That's all important and I think they'll be good. But championship caliber is my goal. In my opinion for that to happen one of Zahui B or Kiah will have to significantly improve and they'll have to find more leadership from somewhere.



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PostPosted: 03/11/17 5:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
I feel like Z is a nice scoring option off the bench and Hartley gives an outside shooting dimension that Boyd doesn't have. So I'm not really worried from an offensive standpoint.

I do feel, however, that there will be drastic changes in terms of team defense, physicality and rebounding. The defense will likely be at least ok, but it's definitely going to be different. Subtracting Wright, Cash and Swords may not seem like a big deal, but they provided the only physical and/or size advantages that the team had. While the team will be talented offensively, I'm wondering how they're not going to take a hit on the defensive end.

And we haven't even discussed the leadership angle. The only vocal veteran on the team is Zellous and she's in just her second year on the team and is not a facilitator. So who steps in and helps in that role? That's a pretty big deal.

All this said, the Libs have the look of a potent offensive team. One that can finally get 3 or 4 scorers on the floor simultaneously. That's all important and I think they'll be good. But championship caliber is my goal. In my opinion for that to happen one of Zahui B or Kiah will have to significantly improve and they'll have to find more leadership from somewhere.


I'd say that Tina Charles will have to become a more vocal leader. Perhaps she has deferred a bit to Wright and Cash. In any case, I believe the leadership will have to come mainly from her.



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PostPosted: 03/11/17 9:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
I feel like Z is a nice scoring option off the bench and Hartley gives an outside shooting dimension that Boyd doesn't have. So I'm not really worried from an offensive standpoint.

I do feel, however, that there will be drastic changes in terms of team defense, physicality and rebounding. The defense will likely be at least ok, but it's definitely going to be different. Subtracting Wright, Cash and Swords may not seem like a big deal, but they provided the only physical and/or size advantages that the team had. While the team will be talented offensively, I'm wondering how they're not going to take a hit on the defensive end.

And we haven't even discussed the leadership angle. The only vocal veteran on the team is Zellous and she's in just her second year on the team and is not a facilitator. So who steps in and helps in that role? That's a pretty big deal.

All this said, the Libs have the look of a potent offensive team. One that can finally get 3 or 4 scorers on the floor simultaneously. That's all important and I think they'll be good. But championship caliber is my goal. In my opinion for that to happen one of Zahui B or Kiah will have to significantly improve and they'll have to find more leadership from somewhere.


I'd say that Tina Charles will have to become a more vocal leader. Perhaps she has deferred a bit to Wright and Cash. In any case, I believe the leadership will have to come mainly from her.


It took Sue Bird a decade to decide she had to be vocal but she did it when the team needed her to. I think this is Tina's year.


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PostPosted: 03/11/17 10:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nerd2 wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
I feel like Z is a nice scoring option off the bench and Hartley gives an outside shooting dimension that Boyd doesn't have. So I'm not really worried from an offensive standpoint.

I do feel, however, that there will be drastic changes in terms of team defense, physicality and rebounding. The defense will likely be at least ok, but it's definitely going to be different. Subtracting Wright, Cash and Swords may not seem like a big deal, but they provided the only physical and/or size advantages that the team had. While the team will be talented offensively, I'm wondering how they're not going to take a hit on the defensive end.

And we haven't even discussed the leadership angle. The only vocal veteran on the team is Zellous and she's in just her second year on the team and is not a facilitator. So who steps in and helps in that role? That's a pretty big deal.

All this said, the Libs have the look of a potent offensive team. One that can finally get 3 or 4 scorers on the floor simultaneously. That's all important and I think they'll be good. But championship caliber is my goal. In my opinion for that to happen one of Zahui B or Kiah will have to significantly improve and they'll have to find more leadership from somewhere.


I'd say that Tina Charles will have to become a more vocal leader. Perhaps she has deferred a bit to Wright and Cash. In any case, I believe the leadership will have to come mainly from her.


It took Sue Bird a decade to decide she had to be vocal but she did it when the team needed her to. I think this is Tina's year.


That's why I was speculating about Charles perhaps having deferred to Wright and Cash. Barring any roster surprises, I assume players will be looking to Tina Charles more than to any of the other veterans. This year she's not just the star. It's her team now. And surely she has benefited as a leader by being there with Wright and Cash.



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PostPosted: 03/12/17 2:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't think being a leader is Tina's 'thing'. Some players are just that way- kinda bossy and noisy - and others are the quieter, do-my-own-thing type. I think she's more of the latter. Someone else will need to take on that role if in fact it is needed.



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PostPosted: 03/13/17 3:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
The less suspicious theory is that management couldn't get any kind of assurance from Wright that she was going sign with the Liberty in 2017, so they thought she might leave and cored her, when the truth was she was considering sitting out, but simply didn't want to make the final decision until closer to the season.

The more suspicious theory would be that Wright wanted to go somewhere else specific, NY cored her to prevent that from happening. A deal with that other destination didn't work out, so Wright decided to rest instead of playing in NY this upcoming season.


#1 seem much more likely


Interesting theories. Looking around the league, I would suspect that, if true, Seattle was Wright's preferred destination. She had a long satisfying career out west, and was let go in that "tank year". The current Storm team has 2 major weaknesses: Clark at the 3 (no rebounding; can be overmatched; no effective backup, and no perimeter reserves. A Wright return would be a gift; of course, in line with your speculation, the Seattle roster has zero trade value. Playing this speculation game, with the new playoff format, NY would have much less desire to help a team like Seattle.
I believe that NY will continue to be cursed by their lack of a true pg: Success in regular season possible, but failure in the playoffs.


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PostPosted: 03/13/17 4:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

People keep whining about Clarks lack of rebounding but then say that Mo Curry is the solution at SF for the Liberty.

Clark had 3,7 rebounds per game last season in 27,6 min and Mo Curry (who is taller) had 4,4 rebounds in 25,5 min. Year before that Clark had 3,7 in 23,1 min while Curry had 3,2 rebounds in 21,3 min. But we never hear anything about Curry being a weak rebounder?



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PostPosted: 03/13/17 4:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Michelle89 wrote:
People keep whining about Clarks lack of rebounding but then say that Mo Curry is the solution at SF for the Liberty.

Clark had 3,7 rebounds per game last season in 27,6 min and Mo Curry (who is taller) had 4,4 rebounds in 25,5 min. Year before that Clark had 3,7 in 23,1 min while Curry had 3,2 rebounds in 21,3 min. But we never hear anything about Curry being a weak rebounder?


Curry is now a very marginal player. Seattle, with its 3 All Stars, needs a real small forward. Watch Clark play. She is a smart, hard worker, but the girl has no size, and cannot jump. Forget All stars like Maya, and Angel, she makes very routine 3's like Alyssa Thomas and Aerial Powers look great.


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