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root_thing



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PostPosted: 05/12/17 9:09 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The Liberty have definitely run some modified (simplified?) triangle the last couple of years. My concern is the mixed messages we're getting about running and playing the triangle. With the Knicks, Hornacek appeared to want to play a more free-flowing style while Jackson pushed for the triangle. Not necessarily incompatible, but they seemed to yo-yo back and forth and didn't do either well. The trick is integrating the concepts. The WNBA season is fairly short, and obviously training camp is ridiculously short. To top it off, you have key players arriving late. I don't think they can just flip a switch from what happened on Sunday. However, as people have pointed out, maybe New York gets lucky because San Antonio is dealing with their own late arrivals and injured players as well as the rebuilding process in general.



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PostPosted: 05/12/17 9:15 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
I'm almost positive Laimbeer ran at least some triangle offense in Detroit. The Libs tried it in 2014 and have run at least stuff resembling it for years. And there's no Melo on the Liberty to destroy the offensive flow. Saturday might be a little ugly but offensively the Libs will be fine once they're together as a unit for a little while.

Luckily I believe McBride and Jefferson just got back and I don't think Plum is expected to play. And SAS has a new coach. We are fortunate to be up against a not-good team who is going to have a similar adjustment period to NY.


McBride is still in Turkey playing today.
Jefferson has been back for a week and is supposed to play, I believe.
There is a question about Plum's ankle, as I understand it.


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PostPosted: 05/12/17 9:59 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

One of the biggest differences between college and the WNBA is the size and athleticism of defenders in the paint. Just because a player is an effective slasher at the college level does not mean that will translate to the WNBA, where everyone is bigger and more athletic and it's much more difficult to finish at the rim.

Some players make it work, but those perimeter players who do not have a three-point or midrange option (this means 45% from 10-16 feet) generally struggle in the WNBA.

And in general, pro leagues are more physical than college (depending on the crew and points of emphasis) so there's more contact in the paint than at the lower level.



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LibFan25



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PostPosted: 05/12/17 1:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

@LennRobbins: .@nyliberty to start @tinacharles31 @14Sugar @SZellous1 @kstokes41 @adifferent1five 4 tomorrow's season opener @SAStars @TheGarden #WNBA


Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 05/12/17 1:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Anyone know when WNBA teams must submit final rosters? Thanks.



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PostPosted: 05/12/17 1:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
Anyone know when WNBA teams must submit final rosters? Thanks.

5pm Eastern, I believe, is the deadline to submit the roster. Doesn't necessarily mean they have to tell the public by then, although they usually have in recent years.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 05/12/17 1:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

LibFan25 wrote:
@LennRobbins: .@nyliberty to start @tinacharles31 @14Sugar @SZellous1 @kstokes41 @adifferent1five 4 tomorrow's season opener @SAStars @TheGarden #WNBA


Piph is probably still acclimating to running a different offense for the PG position, so that might be a work in progress. Allen's preseason was uneven. Prob not a surprise Z is starting. Hope to see more offense from Stokes this year.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 05/12/17 1:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
The Liberty have definitely run some modified (simplified?) triangle the last couple of years. My concern is the mixed messages we're getting about running and playing the triangle. With the Knicks, Hornacek appeared to want to play a more free-flowing style while Jackson pushed for the triangle. Not necessarily incompatible, but they seemed to yo-yo back and forth and didn't do either well. The trick is integrating the concepts. The WNBA season is fairly short, and obviously training camp is ridiculously short. To top it off, you have key players arriving late. I don't think they can just flip a switch from what happened on Sunday. However, as people have pointed out, maybe New York gets lucky because San Antonio is dealing with their own late arrivals and injured players as well as the rebuilding process in general.


Yeah these are all good points and I can understand every concern. I think Piph not starting is also an indicator of uncertainty. If the Libs are going to win a title Sugar and Piph need to play together. So one question is, when will Piph be up to speed with the offense from the perspective of a point guard? Honestly the thought that Allen is not starting is also a worry. I'm def more concerned than I was this morning.

Besides SAS having uncertainty themselves, one hope is that they'll be sharp the way they were opening night each of the last two years. After bad preseasons both years they came out really strong on opening night each time.



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Lumes



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PostPosted: 05/12/17 2:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Boyd in starting 5 is obvious message - they are really willing to run. Or at least try to run.




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myrtle



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PostPosted: 05/12/17 2:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Predict substitutions in first 3 minutes.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 05/12/17 3:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I wouldn't read too much into tomorrow's starting line-up. Bill is probably just trying to survive until things jell or become clearer. Putting Zellous out there with Stokes makes some sense since they were teammates in Turkey. They've been playing together nonstop for a year now. Kiah and Shavonte were also swing players who played a lot with both units last year. So, even though it's technically two members of the 1st Unit and three from the 2nd Unit, Stokes and Zellous are really a bridge. Worse case scenario, if the offense bogs down as badly as it did on Sunday, Zellous has the ability to go one-on-one whereas a spot-up shooter like Allen is more dependent on a functioning offense.



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PostPosted: 05/12/17 3:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The really weird thing is we know tomorrow's starting lineup before we know the final roster



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LibFan25



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PostPosted: 05/12/17 3:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
root_thing wrote:
The Liberty have definitely run some modified (simplified?) triangle the last couple of years. My concern is the mixed messages we're getting about running and playing the triangle. With the Knicks, Hornacek appeared to want to play a more free-flowing style while Jackson pushed for the triangle. Not necessarily incompatible, but they seemed to yo-yo back and forth and didn't do either well. The trick is integrating the concepts. The WNBA season is fairly short, and obviously training camp is ridiculously short. To top it off, you have key players arriving late. I don't think they can just flip a switch from what happened on Sunday. However, as people have pointed out, maybe New York gets lucky because San Antonio is dealing with their own late arrivals and injured players as well as the rebuilding process in general.


Yeah these are all good points and I can understand every concern. I think Piph not starting is also an indicator of uncertainty. If the Libs are going to win a title Sugar and Piph need to play together. So one question is, when will Piph be up to speed with the offense from the perspective of a point guard? Honestly the thought that Allen is not starting is also a worry. I'm def more concerned than I was this morning.

Besides SAS having uncertainty themselves, one hope is that they'll be sharp the way they were opening night each of the last two years. After bad preseasons both years they came out really strong on opening night each time.


yup that's the first thing came to my mind, its a bad sign don't care how you twist it around. we need a SF. im hoping Boyd has a good season,i hope she locks down that starting spot and avg over 10 pts and 6ast a game. i would be one happy Libs fan.


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PostPosted: 05/12/17 4:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

just proves me right on this offseason about the (ignored) need for a 3 and Bill's lack of confidence in Allen.

We'll see we normally start slow so I bet this is written on an etch a sketch

also find it weird that the lineup is before the final roster.

Boyd has looked good this preseason so I feel better...will be interesting to see where Prince plays the bulk of her time.

Still wanna see final roster before I give my full opinion. But given the hard SOS after SA do need a W tomorrow to avoid a very bad start. But I'm still confident...its a good lineup



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LibFan25



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PostPosted: 05/12/17 4:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tick tock tick tock..waiting on the final roster..makes me wonder is trade talk is going on behind the scenes?


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PostPosted: 05/12/17 4:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

LibFan25 wrote:
tick tock tick tock..waiting on the final roster..makes me wonder is trade talk is going on behind the scenes?


No.... just stalling. Hoping teams like SAN and DAL who still might look at waiver wire pickups will grab what's already out there, like O'Hea, January, Phillips, Faris.... instead of grabbing their cut player.

Might NYL be interested in these latest cuts from other teams? I dunno... not thinking so.



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zvyn3



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PostPosted: 05/12/17 4:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Cierra tweeted this so I'm assuming she's on.

https://twitter.com/c_burdick11/status/863119548937105408


toad455



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PostPosted: 05/12/17 6:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Lindsay Allen waived. Burdick & Nayo make the final roster.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 05/12/17 6:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Lindsay Allen's gone: http://liberty.wnba.com/news/liberty-announces-2017-opening-day-roster/



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 05/12/17 6:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Lindsay Allen is gone. Don't know if she was cut.

http://liberty.wnba.com/news/liberty-announces-2017-opening-day-roster/



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PostPosted: 05/12/17 6:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

i knew it. the Libs is gonna sink or swim with Boyd and Hartley this year, if they fail Expect again next year looking for another PG in the Deep 2018 draft, Ms. Canada from UCLA or Ms. Brown from Duke Both dynamic players i will be excited about watching closely.


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PostPosted: 05/12/17 6:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
Lindsay Allen's gone: http://liberty.wnba.com/news/liberty-announces-2017-opening-day-roster/


mildly Surprised

gl with Boyd/Hartley as your PGs. But maybe Piph bails them out.



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PostPosted: 05/12/17 6:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
Lindsay Allen is gone. Don't know if she was cut.

http://liberty.wnba.com/news/liberty-announces-2017-opening-day-roster/


What other options are there than getting cut?


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PostPosted: 05/12/17 6:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
root_thing wrote:
Lindsay Allen is gone. Don't know if she was cut.

http://liberty.wnba.com/news/liberty-announces-2017-opening-day-roster/


What other options are there than getting cut?

Could've been traded for a pick, I suppose, theoretically. Presumably to LA, if that were the case, seeing as everyone else is at their opening day limit.

But yeah, almost certainly cut.



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PostPosted: 05/12/17 6:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Sounds like the same situation that Amber Orrange was in, quiet introverted players don't seem to be Bills cup of tea. Although I think Allen was even more vocal than Amber.


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PostPosted: 05/12/17 6:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

We introverts can't do anything right.



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PostPosted: 05/12/17 6:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sigur3 wrote:
We introverts can't do anything right.


dwell contentedly in our basements Cool



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PostPosted: 05/12/17 6:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sigur3 wrote:
We introverts can't do anything right.


Y'all write really good articles!



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PostPosted: 05/12/17 7:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nixtreefan wrote:
Sounds like the same situation that Amber Orrange was in, quiet introverted players don't seem to be Bills cup of tea. Although I think Allen was even more vocal than Amber.


Orrange had 0 points, 1 assist, and 7 turnovers in her two preseason games. Even if she was yelling like Tanisha Wright, Swin Cash, and T-Spoon combined she wouldn't have made the team.



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PostPosted: 05/12/17 7:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

L. Allen failing to make an opening day roster, while Chong makes the grade on another WNBA team certainly says something interesting, which may not go down well in certain basements.

Wink


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PostPosted: 05/12/17 7:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Unless Allen is genuinely injured or dubiously said by New York to be injured, I was dead wrong in believing and saying she'd make the team.



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PostPosted: 05/12/17 7:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
Nixtreefan wrote:
Sounds like the same situation that Amber Orrange was in, quiet introverted players don't seem to be Bills cup of tea. Although I think Allen was even more vocal than Amber.


Orrange had 0 points, 1 assist, and 7 turnovers in her two preseason games. Even if she was yelling like Tanisha Wright, Swin Cash, and T-Spoon combined she wouldn't have made the team.


I was gonna say something similar but with more snark...but I'll maintain decorum it sometimes happens in Preseason where a player you can tell just doesn't have the advanced skills at this level...and the results reflect that...they work hard...they show they want to succeed but it just doesn't go...Orrange was one of those players...she looked awful and was not easy to see she had to go.

L. Allen had upside...so a bit of a shock but I guess rightfully Bill felt he needed all the options he could muster up front (Or hes biding time for someone to clear waivers)



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PostPosted: 05/12/17 7:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So...this is interesting. Not what I expected to happen but it's also hardly controversial or a major surprise. Lindsay Allen is a nice player in some ways, but at this stage, she's also clearly a developmental player rather than a player who's going to provide immediate help.

I think it confirms one thing for sure. Once Piph gets acclimated in practice, she will be the primary PG. And I think Boyd is going to do impactful things off the bench. Her speed is a weapon when she is able to use it to get to the foul line. And we saw some things in the Columbia game that she hadn't done much of in prior years. Hesitation dribbles, changes of pace, that sort of thing. Little things that will help her create deception to get penetration opportunities. I foresee her impact similar to what it was in 2015, but on the level of a player who has become slightly more polished than the 2015 version. I do think that Boyd as a starter is a temporary thing that will change ASAP. Possibly as soon as the Minnesota game.

The Zellous/Stokes combo in the starting lineup is definitely intriguing on a few levels, and I think that's one that might last awhile. First off, as has been mentioned, they were on the same Turkish team. So it's probably a natural fit for them to play together. But I also think there's potentially another reason. They're each the fastest players at their respective positions on the team. If the Libs are looking to go with a speed game, it makes sense to attack teams with it from the very start of the game and then use your depth to wear them down. If that is in fact the plan, I think it makes good sense.

I'll be curious to see how Nayo and Burdick will be integrated in terms of matchups and we have a big test next game against a Lynx team that appears to be on a mission. That will be where we will really get a feel for how certain size/speed matchups positively or negatively affect the team when it really matters.

Edited to add, I also wonder what would have happened if we had drafted Alexis Peterson instead. I thought the fact that she could score and get assists was a combo that would make her more appealing than Allen in today's WNBA. And we are going to have to have something in place when Piph leaves for Euros. So either they would be bringing Allen back and they think nobody will claim her. Or they intend to claim someone else. Or...would they be allowed to activate Wright when Prince leaves? Is that allowable under league rules? Is she not suspended? I can't find that anywhere. Yet...she's not on the roster so what's the deal?



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 05/12/17 8:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
Or...would they be allowed to activate Wright when Prince leaves? Is that allowable under league rules? Is she not suspended? I can't find that anywhere. Yet...she's not on the roster so what's the deal?


I guess you missed our discussion from three days ago. Wright is not under contract. She doesn't need to be suspended. Nor can she talk to another team since she's cored. To play, Wright just needs to sign a contract.



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PostPosted: 05/12/17 8:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I dont think we will see Wright in a New York uniform again ...IMO



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PostPosted: 05/12/17 8:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Lib Fan wrote:
I dont think we will see Wright in a New York uniform again ...IMO


agreed. seems like she's part of the staff somehow now.



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PostPosted: 05/12/17 9:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
sigur3 wrote:
We introverts can't do anything right.


dwell contentedly in our basements Cool


Right on. One of my favorite places in the world. Give me a mug of tea, a good book, and a Brian Eno ambient album and I'm in heaven.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 05/12/17 9:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
Or...would they be allowed to activate Wright when Prince leaves? Is that allowable under league rules? Is she not suspended? I can't find that anywhere. Yet...she's not on the roster so what's the deal?


I guess you missed our discussion from three days ago. Wright is not under contract. She doesn't need to be suspended. Nor can she talk to another team since she's cored. To play, Wright just needs to sign a contract.


Lol, I did miss it. It gets fast and furious in here these days. I agree with everyone that I don't think Wright will play again. But I'm also thinking there has to be a plan of some sort to have a third PG for when Piph plays Euros. Maybe I am overthinking it.

FWIW, Lenn Robbins tweeted that Boyd has been the most impressive player in Libs camp. FWIW, Robbins wrote in an article that Sugar will be a lead guard when she hasn't played a second of it in preseason. Remains to be seen how much credence to place in his opinion. Though he could also be sharing Laimbeer's opinion of Boyd by tweeting the info about her.



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PostPosted: 05/12/17 9:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The #14 pick in a weak draft was a crap shoot. I wasn't happy drafting Allen, but what were our other choices?? Peterson? Fitzgerald? Chong? L. Allen basically got beat out by Burdick & Raincock-Ekunwe. And I think Laimbeer preferred having those flexible 3/4 options with both Burdick & Nayo.



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PostPosted: 05/12/17 9:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
The #14 pick in a weak draft was a crap shoot. I wasn't happy drafting Allen, but what were our other choices?? Peterson? Fitzgerald? Chong? L. Allen basically got beat out by Burdick & Raincock-Ekunwe. And I think Laimbeer preferred having those flexible 3/4 options with both Burdick & Nayo.


Agree. Pick 14 in a weak draft...it's reasonable to expect such a player not to make a roster. Particularly a deep team like NY.



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PostPosted: 05/12/17 9:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
The #14 pick in a weak draft was a crap shoot. I wasn't happy drafting Allen, but what were our other choices?? Peterson? Fitzgerald? Chong? L. Allen basically got beat out by Burdick & Raincock-Ekunwe. And I think Laimbeer preferred having those flexible 3/4 options with both Burdick & Nayo.


Ding, Ding, Ding. We have a winner....did we learn nothing from the Stokes experience?


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PostPosted: 05/12/17 10:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I like L. Allen I don't think she did anything wrong.

I think Burdick who has scraped, been on a team or two, learned what she had to do, came in and out played her.

I think Raincock-Ekunwe came in off a strong Olympics gave it her all and made herself too good to cut easily.

Both Nayo and Cierra can play 2 positions, come in off the bench and give energy, grit, fouls and just seemed to be the right fit for the Liberty.

I'm wondering with a platoon style of play if we might line up something like this

Boyd/Hartley
Rodgers/Prince
Zellous/R. Allen/Burdick
Charles/Zahui B/Raincock-Ekunwe
Stokes/Vaughn

with a minutes per night order looking something like

Charles
Rodgers
Stokes
Prince
Zellous
Boyd
Zahui B/Vaughn
R. Allen/Hartley
Burdick/Raincock-Ekunwe


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PostPosted: 05/12/17 10:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'd assume the starters will be Prince-Rodgers-Allen-Charles-Vaughn. The bench order will likely be:

1. Zellous
2. Stokes
3. Boyd
4. Zahui B.
5. Raincock-Ekunwe
6. Hartley
7. Burdick



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PostPosted: 05/12/17 10:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

McCall was available at #14. I think she has better long term potential than Burdick or Nayo. And regardless of when she was taken, I also like Alexis Prince better. But it is what it is. There are no guarantees. Allen was a reasonable pick at #14. I don't know if management thought she could help them with the running game or if she was just brought in as an extra PG option. Either way, they got to look at a player, and Bill got to test some ideas. If they learned something about their team, then it was probably worth it. Even failure is informative because it lets you know what you can't do.

Regarding Chong, people killed her on the WCBB board for 3½ years. She was this horrible defender who didn't produce much on offense either. Now, she is suddenly this wise rookie who knows how to do all the litttle things to win. Oh, what a hidden gem! Well, she was never as bad as described in her earlier college years, and I don't think she's as good as people are making her out to be now. She's somewhere in between. Chong is certainly no Kiah Stokes. She doesn't have the athletic ability, and Stokes was able to display superior defensive and rebounding skills even as a backup. With Chong, it's mostly about perceived judgment. That's a very subjective and tenuous quality... as her colossal mistake at the end of the Mississippi State game showed.



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PostPosted: 05/12/17 10:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
Allen was a reasonable pick at #14. I don't know if management thought she could help them with the running game or if she was just brought in as an extra PG option. Either way, they got to look at a player, and Bill got to test some ideas. If they learned something about their team, then it was probably worth it. Even failure is informative because it lets you know what you can't do.


A very good point made



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PostPosted: 05/12/17 10:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
Lol, I did miss it. It gets fast and furious in here these days. I agree with everyone that I don't think Wright will play again. But I'm also thinking there has to be a plan of some sort to have a third PG for when Piph plays Euros. Maybe I am overthinking it.

If she's not on anyone else's roster by that point, surely one of the most likely plans is Lindsay Allen?

Although to be honest, Boyd, Hartley, Rodgers and Zellous is already better lead-ballhandler backup than most teams would have with their first option out of town.



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PostPosted: 05/13/17 1:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Any players from the Liberty not available to play in today's game??


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PostPosted: 05/13/17 2:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ay Mate wrote:
Any players from the Liberty not available to play in today's game??


I believe everyone is healthy and dressed.



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PostPosted: 05/13/17 3:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ay Mate wrote:
Any players from the Liberty not available to play in today's game??


Unless you were planning to play Rebecca Allen, you're golden.



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PostPosted: 05/13/17 3:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Queenie wrote:
Ay Mate wrote:
Any players from the Liberty not available to play in today's game??


Unless you were planning to play Rebecca Allen, you're golden.


Is she injured?



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