RebKell's Junkie Boards

[Happycappie25]

[zune69]

[Michelle89]

Decent to all star centers are not easy to come by. I think Dolson is a solid center in this league. And the combination of her and Meesseman will be their strength in the future.

I agree with you that they need a stronger guard though but they need someone with experience at that position IMO.
A rookie is not going to help them that much.

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"Sue Bird and Lauren Jackson were and are the dynamic duo. They're the one-two punch. They're all the clich�s possible to describe people that perfectly complement each other, who make each other better and also bring out the best in the team." �Karen Bryant

[Shades]

[zune69]

[Shades]

I'm not sure how this turned into a WAS thread, but remember draft day in 2010 when Thibault (and it was clear HE was in charge of all player movement) traded the first and second round picks of the 2011 draft (nice draft) for Kelsey Griffin? Now that was pretty reckless. You can tell he was feeling pretty cocky and untouchable when he scored the #1 pick (Charles) from Minnesota in January of 2010. I wonder if Thibault learned from from the Griffin trade (she was pretty hype back then) or might he still be vulnerable to recklessness.

[ClayK]

[root_thing]

Watching all these high-scoring playoff games where the winners are getting into the 100's or at least the 90's makes me wonder whether the Liberty can keep playing grind-it-out, defensive style basketball and still win a championship. Yes, you can win games playing that way during the regular season. The WNBA has a ridiculously short preseason, and most of the star players don't even show up until it's almost over. That means for much of the first month, offenses are out-of-sync and it helps the defensive-oriented teams. Throw in injuries or people sitting out like we had in 2015, and a system based on your opponent's failure to execute can work pretty well. But what if your opponent is at full strength and their game is flowing? Can you still win with subpar to average offense just by grinding on the defensive end? And what if you only play one defense, but the opposition has figured out how to beat it?

Just thinking out loud here. I hope our coaching staff isn't stuck in the last decade. Reeve has a similar philosophy to Laimbeer, but it looks like she has made tweaks and adjustments along the way. Having better talent obviously helps too. But sometimes the things I hear about "that's not who we are" or a Laimbeer team has to do this or that -- it makes me wonder if we're not hampered by self-imposed limitations, behavior based on a possibly faulty assumption that what worked in the past will work today. There's an anachronistic feel to this team. It makes me think of Hillary Clinton spending millions on TV ads while Donald Trump gets by using social media and free news coverage. Don't read that as a political statement -- it's an observation about change. Beyond the talent issue, I just hope Liberty management is keeping an eye on league trends. I have similar concerns with the Knicks. There's a very retro backward-looking air about them under Phil Jackson. So, are we watching the application of tried and true methods or do we see people living in the past?

[NYL_WNBA_FAN]

I was thinking that too. Hopefully the coming year will be different in that we will have 3 healthy big scorers instead of 2. Whether that's Piph and Rodgers in tandem who knows? Those Detroit teams had many scorers, some of whom sacrificed their scoring to fill other roles. However, they were more a physical scoring team, if that makes sense.

But I totally agree with the basic premise. You are not winning by being a middle rung offensive team and upper end defensive team anymore. The league is too good offensively, and the officiating is far more in favor of offense than it was when Detroit was winning multiple titles. Every team in the league has multiple scorers now too. You can have the best defenders in the world and still give up 90 against a high scoring team fairly easily. With a healthy Stokes I think we'd have beaten Phoenix. But it's still entirely possible they'd have run up high 90's in points anyway. They rung up 100 on us in June with a healthier squad.

These two years have been a breath of fresh air for the organization, and I still think you need the right kind of players for a Laimbeer system to be successful. I think the difference now is in the point you've made. Could Laimbeer coach the Lynx to titles? Yes. The thing with a team like Minnesota is they're physical AND they have top level scoring. To win championships in the league now you gotta have both elite offense and defense. There is simply no other way. That's why I think one way or another the Libs have to get bigger at the 3 spot while also enhancing their athleticism at the position. To match up to Minnesota or LA or even Phoenix, that's the next step. The fact that it would fit a Laimbeer philosophy would sort of be a bonus. Luckily for NY, they have the best scoring and passing post in the league, so it makes sense that they use her within a framework that LFO has had success with in the past. I just think you don't want to ride post players in the fourth quarter of games. It's much easier to create on the perimeter than in the post late in games when D is swarming. To get closer to Minnesota in that regard, the 3 scorer thing is a necessity. Also Sugar is not really one to create her own shot. In that sense replacing her with a longer player who can would be a nice addition. If you can pull it off. They're not exactly readily available.

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The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.

[pilight]

It may not be coincidental that the four semifinalists were the top four teams in OER

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I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home

[NYL_WNBA_FAN]

I'd concur. Especially seeing the number of free throws teams were attempting. You take offense-oriented teams and have games called that way, the offensive talent is going to take over.

Not a criticism. Just an observation. I hated the rugby style of play in the early 2000s, exhibit A being game 3 of the 2001 ECF. The Liberty have to adjust accordingly. They got their chances at the foul line against Phoenix themselves. Phoenix, however, fully capitalized to the tune of 100% from the line. The Libs did not.

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The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.

[5thmantheme]

I could see Camille Little as a platoon PF for close-out with Charles at Center. Have her as an O/D switch with Stokes. Little got stuck in the hole 'rastin' with Big Bigs too much at the end there at Seattle, yet had to chase some SFs out on the perimeter for the Sun. She worked at PF rather well, just ask Lauren Jackson.

Prince at Chicago variously had to play Point , back-up Point , Combo , Chucker , System , whatever came down the pike in the middle of a season. She would be better served at strictly Shooting Guard but she has the handles for some point duty. Boyd , Wright, and running the offense through Charles anyway, is more than enough complimentary handles. They can get away with Sugar and Prince out there so long as Wright or Charles is out there too.

[ClayK]

So if the Liberty need more offense, then whoever plays small forward needs to score. That didn't happen this year, and I don't see it happening with the players on the roster. Shavonte Zellous is not a scorer – she can do some things but she's not get a ring up 15 every night.

Maybe you can get enough from the triumvirate of Charles, Piph, and Rodgers, but it's hard to see how a Prince/Rogers backcourt is going to really work.

Bottom line: You win with talent, and New York is just a little short in the scoring talent department. Trader Bill needs to work his magic…

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Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā

[NYL_WNBA_FAN]

Z is also better when she occasionally has the defense broken down for her. Something Indy had better players for than NY. I think Z is an important role player but I think the position needs not only more consistent scoring but more size. The elite teams in the league have it. The Liberty come up a bit short in that area for a team built around rebounding and defense.

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The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.

[J-Spoon]

I haven't seen enough of some of the other draft options.

Would Nia Coffey be a fit for the Liberty at SF? She seems to be a decent scorer.

Right now she is projected in the middle of the first round. If Seattle wants a defensive big I could see them trading the #6 pick for Swords, and before people scoff, I was the only one who thought we could get a first round pick for A. Montgomery and we did, and Swords offers a little more to the right team, #6 might seem high for Swords but 6' 6" borderline starting centers don't grow on trees, and Seattle doesn't really need a scorer at the center position, so Swords would be a nice fit for them.

[NYL_WNBA_FAN]

[Michelle89]

[Shades]

[Michelle89]

[Shades]

Seattle is closest to Schimmel's Oregon fan base. She would more than pay for her own salary by filling the seats and sales of merchandise (something NYL fans are short-sighted about). And I believe Seattle is the only team with a nutritionalist, so that may prove fruitful.

I don't believe Zahui has come close to her potential although we've seen flashes. With somebody like Swords, you know what you're getting and you can't expect to get any more.

[toad455]

I still think an even trade of Schimmel for O'Hea would benefit both teams.

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LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!

Twitter: @TBRBWAY

[root_thing]

[NYL_WNBA_FAN]

Clark is a nice player but she could not stay with Angel in the one and done game at all, and her size was exposed against the bigger, more athletic Angel. I respect her D, and understand that maybe nobody can guard Angel when she's playing that way, but not sure why she would even be considered that much of an upgrade over what we have. She might not even be an upgrade. She's 5'10 just like Zellous. She's a better 3 ball shooter, but Z creates her own shot better, so...

That's not what we need. If we are going to compete for a championship, we need size and scoring on the wing. I certainly wouldn't trade Zahui for her. I'd rather roll the dice on Allen developing enough to be more of a factor next year.

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The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.

[Shades]

Hmm... that seemed like a personal slight. You don't appreciate the game day threads? Well, what else is new?

[J-Spoon]

Even though I suggested the Schimmel for O'hea trade somewhere part of me has faith that Schimmel is going to come back next season and be a contributing member of the team off the bench doing some shooting, some back up/back up PG duty and bringing some show-time.

I always believed both Schimmel and Zahui B. were investments for the future not fixes for 2016. This off-season will be a huge opportunity for Schimmel to get to the right place for her basketball career. My psychic powers tell me that BL probably likes her and would like nothing more than to be able to use her as part of the team. Earlier in the thread people were talking about offense even in her limited minutes Shoni was putting the ball in the basket, if she can upgrade her defense and speed she can contribute, fingers crossed, and if she didn't get the wake up call from last off-season and it doesn't work out we didn't lose much (I believe it will be the #22 pick in this upcoming draft.) Seattle would be a good place to trade her because of potential Box Office appeal, but I think both teams can afford to wait until next pre-season to make any moves involving Schimmel. I really want her to come back and kill it just to see the reaction.