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zune69
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WNBA 09
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zune69
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WNBA 09
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zune69
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WNBA 09
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J-Spoon
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 Posted: 04/05/17 12:24 am ::: |
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So I had a vision, (I'm not saying I like the vision) but it just seems like the kind of move NY management might make.
Zellous and #14 to Dallas, SA, Atl, Was or Conn for the first round pick 3-8 that would turn into 6' 2" W K. Davis.
Before people scoff, teams like Dallas, SA, and Atl all have room for a vet guard off the bench like Zellous, possibly more room than for another rookie who may or may not pan out, Zellous backing up Christmas or Powers, Zellous backing up McBride, Zellous backing up Hayes that just makes too much sense for those teams. SA and Dallas both have other top picks to add to there team anyway, and SA, Dallas and Atl all have enough holes that someone who falls to #14 could still be valuable (Epps, Cooper, A. Prince, Romero, Allen, Akhator, McCall) Washington is in win now mode and Zellous fits in perfect with Mike T's style a guard rotation of Toliver, Latta, Hill, Zellous and Cloud is pretty nice and Was might be able to bring in a decent post with #14 (Akgator, Cooper, McCall), and Conn needs a vet or two to balance all the youth, Zellous off the bench with Banham and C. Williams also makes sense.
NY gets the full of potential athlete with true three size, atltecism and the type of Ego that Laimbeer often seems able to harness.
Prince/Boyd
Rodgers/Hartley/Schimmel, Barbee or Alston
Allen/Davis
Charles/Zahui B/Burdick or Raincock-Ekunwe
Vaughn/Stokes
Not sure if I like it but it has that out there move that NY seems to make kind of feel.
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root_thing
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| Posted: 04/05/17 2:12 am ::: |
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| J-Spoon wrote: |
So I had a vision, (I'm not saying I like the vision) but it just seems like the kind of move NY management might make.
Zellous and #14 to Dallas, SA, Atl, Was or Conn for the first round pick 3-8 that would turn into 6' 2" W K. Davis.
Before people scoff, teams like Dallas, SA, and Atl all have room for a vet guard off the bench like Zellous, possibly more room than for another rookie who may or may not pan out, Zellous backing up Christmas or Powers, Zellous backing up McBride, Zellous backing up Hayes that just makes too much sense for those teams. SA and Dallas both have other top picks to add to there team anyway, and SA, Dallas and Atl all have enough holes that someone who falls to #14 could still be valuable (Epps, Cooper, A. Prince, Romero, Allen, Akhator, McCall) Washington is in win now mode and Zellous fits in perfect with Mike T's style a guard rotation of Toliver, Latta, Hill, Zellous and Cloud is pretty nice and Was might be able to bring in a decent post with #14 (Akgator, Cooper, McCall), and Conn needs a vet or two to balance all the youth, Zellous off the bench with Banham and C. Williams also makes sense.
NY gets the full of potential athlete with true three size, atltecism and the type of Ego that Laimbeer often seems able to harness.
Prince/Boyd
Rodgers/Hartley/Schimmel, Barbee or Alston
Allen/Davis
Charles/Zahui B/Burdick or Raincock-Ekunwe
Vaughn/Stokes
Not sure if I like it but it has that out there move that NY seems to make kind of feel. |
I can see why you'd think Isiah and Bill would be interested in Davis, but I'm not convinced those other teams would be receptive. DC traded Vaughn to NY to free salary cap space. I don't think they have money for Zellous. CT has a lot invested in Williams and Banham, Those players have to play to develop. SAS needs a real SF. They'd be better off keeping Davis for themselves. Dallas traded Sims and swapped a 1st Rounder for a 2nd Rounder to move up to #4. To then bring back Zellous and #14 is not going to look good PR-wise. At least if you draft a young player, the fans can dream. No one is going to get excited about Zellous. But I'm assuming rationale behavior. That doesn't always apply to Fred Williams. It just takes one, and you were right about getting 1st round picks for Alex Montgomery and Swords.
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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| Posted: 04/05/17 2:59 am ::: |
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| root_thing wrote: |
| J-Spoon wrote: |
So I had a vision, (I'm not saying I like the vision) but it just seems like the kind of move NY management might make.
Zellous and #14 to Dallas, SA, Atl, Was or Conn for the first round pick 3-8 that would turn into 6' 2" W K. Davis.
Before people scoff, teams like Dallas, SA, and Atl all have room for a vet guard off the bench like Zellous, possibly more room than for another rookie who may or may not pan out, Zellous backing up Christmas or Powers, Zellous backing up McBride, Zellous backing up Hayes that just makes too much sense for those teams. SA and Dallas both have other top picks to add to there team anyway, and SA, Dallas and Atl all have enough holes that someone who falls to #14 could still be valuable (Epps, Cooper, A. Prince, Romero, Allen, Akhator, McCall) Washington is in win now mode and Zellous fits in perfect with Mike T's style a guard rotation of Toliver, Latta, Hill, Zellous and Cloud is pretty nice and Was might be able to bring in a decent post with #14 (Akgator, Cooper, McCall), and Conn needs a vet or two to balance all the youth, Zellous off the bench with Banham and C. Williams also makes sense.
NY gets the full of potential athlete with true three size, atltecism and the type of Ego that Laimbeer often seems able to harness.
Prince/Boyd
Rodgers/Hartley/Schimmel, Barbee or Alston
Allen/Davis
Charles/Zahui B/Burdick or Raincock-Ekunwe
Vaughn/Stokes
Not sure if I like it but it has that out there move that NY seems to make kind of feel. |
I can see why you'd think Isiah and Bill would be interested in Davis, but I'm not convinced those other teams would be receptive. DC traded Vaughn to NY to free salary cap space. I don't think they have money for Zellous. CT has a lot invested in Williams and Banham, Those players have to play to develop. SAS needs a real SF. They'd be better off keeping Davis for themselves. Dallas traded Sims and swapped a 1st Rounder for a 2nd Rounder to move up to #4. To then bring back Zellous and #14 is not going to look good PR-wise. At least if you draft a young player, the fans can dream. No one is going to get excited about Zellous. But I'm assuming rationale behavior. That doesn't always apply to Fred Williams. It just takes one, and you were right about getting 1st round picks for Alex Montgomery and Swords. |
My first thought was Rodgers for the pick that turns into K. Davis but that was too painful, and I had just posted somewhere else that NY wouldn't trade Rodgers for the #4 pick (but that was before the Davis and Gray entries) so I didn't want to back track on that even with the new circumstances. I simply couldn't get behind a Rodgers for Davis trade, I would question a Zellous and #14 for Davis trade but could possibly get on board with it. I still think Dallas is a possibility for that trade because of the way the team is structured and because I think if Fred wants to make the playoffs he needs to mix in some vets with his youngsters. Even if her trades #4, he'll still have two other young guns at #3 and #10 to incorporate. Atl I think still does the trade if Davis ends up at #7, but I could see Cooper appreciating Davis the same way Isiah and Bill might. It depends on Atl goals, if Atl wants to stay in the playoff race they should take Zellous, but if Atl is thinking about rebuilding post McCoughtry's time maybe stick with Davis.
TBH I'm not sold on Davis myself so I'm not sure why I'm trying to convince myself. I just feel like she could be that unexpected player who becomes available and speak to NY's needs.
Since I'm playing the what if game what about Rodgers to Chicago for the #2 pick and then drafting A. Gray to solve the SF problem. PS I don't want to trade Rodgers at all, but if this was the move Rodgers would have to be the price.
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Randy
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| Posted: 04/05/17 6:45 am ::: |
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| J-Spoon, I'm just hoping Dream don't buy into your latest Zealous-vision. Too old, she's declined way too much, doesn't fill a serious need and NY fans have been proposing trades for her for months now. Probably a reason for that. I don't really want Davis either. (Then again, I was not happy with trading No. 4 for Williams, picking up Clarendon and drafting Holmes. So you can't go by me.)
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WNBA 09
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root_thing
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| Posted: 04/05/17 10:44 am ::: |
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| J-Spoon wrote: |
Atl I think still does the trade if Davis ends up at #7, but I could see Cooper appreciating Davis the same way Isiah and Bill might. It depends on Atl goals, if Atl wants to stay in the playoff race they should take Zellous, but if Atl is thinking about rebuilding post McCoughtry's time maybe stick with Davis.
TBH I'm not sold on Davis myself so I'm not sure why I'm trying to convince myself. I just feel like she could be that unexpected player who becomes available and speak to NY's needs.
Since I'm playing the what if game what about Rodgers to Chicago for the #2 pick and then drafting A. Gray to solve the SF problem. PS I don't want to trade Rodgers at all, but if this was the move Rodgers would have to be the price. |
I see I forgot to address Atlanta in my previous post. The thing to remember about the Dream is that they finished last in assists as well as 3Pt shooting -- both shots made and percentage. Zellous doesn't address either of those needs. Davis doesn't either, but at least she's young and has upside. If I'm Atlanta, I keep the pick to help fix those problems. Right now, I have them taking Peterson because she can both shoot 3's and produce assists.
As far as Chicago goes, again, I'm not sure why they'd want Rodgers. They have Cappie and Quigley for the short-term. Long-term, they'd be better off with Gray who is 5-6 years younger than Sugar. Also, Chicago has their own SF needs to worry about. Gray plays both SF and SG, so she's a more versatile piece to have on their team. Rodgers is a SG only.
From the Liberty viewpoint, as much as I like Gray she is unlikely to be better than Allen this season, and I'm not convinced that she necessarily has more upside. Bec is a little longer and definitely a better shooter. I don't see a lot of difference athletically. Gray is younger and she seems to have a knack for making positive plays at big moments -- not just points but also rebounds, steals, blocks, etc. Still, if you look at the big picture, I'm not seeing a significant talent edge for Gray over Allen.
Davis is sort of the poor man's DeShields. It's the same athletic ability vs basketball skill/IQ debate. However, Kaela is not quite as athletic as Diamond, and whereas DD puts up good (if not great) numbers, Davis has really pedestrian stats. We all know about the crappy 37% shooting, but what's with the 3.9 rebounds and ONE TOTAL BLOCK ALL SEASON from a 6-2 player? In contrast, Tori Jankoska at 5-8 averages 8.0 rebounds and has 13 total blocks for the season. Talk about the difference in giving a shit... So, Davis is a major underachiever, and what you're really drafting is hope based on those occasional games when she looks like a world-beater. I guess it comes down to how much a coach believes in their developmental and motivational ability.
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Randy
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| Posted: 04/05/17 12:02 pm ::: |
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It is time for Atlanta to move on from Angel and NY would seem like a really good place for her to go. I'm thinking something like Boyd+Stokes for Angel+Henry.
Something maybe should be added to one side or the other of the above. (We will take Shavonte if NY is really that zealous about dumping her salary.)
Of course, Angel would have to approve the deal and agree to play most of the season.
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mavcarter
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root_thing
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| Posted: 04/05/17 1:49 pm ::: |
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| Randy wrote: |
It is time for Atlanta to move on from Angel and NY would seem like a really good place for her to go. I'm thinking something like Boyd+Stokes for Angel+Henry.
Something maybe should be added to one side or the other of the above. (We will take Shavonte if NY is really that zealous about dumping her salary.)
Of course, Angel would have to approve the deal and agree to play most of the season. |
Done. Where do we sign?
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pilight
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| Posted: 04/05/17 1:56 pm ::: |
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| Randy wrote: |
It is time for Atlanta to move on from Angel and NY would seem like a really good place for her to go. I'm thinking something like Boyd+Stokes for Angel+Henry.
Something maybe should be added to one side or the other of the above. (We will take Shavonte if NY is really that zealous about dumping her salary.)
Of course, Angel would have to approve the deal and agree to play most of the season. |
Why do you hate the Dream?
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J-Spoon
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| Posted: 04/05/17 1:56 pm ::: |
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| Randy wrote: |
It is time for Atlanta to move on from Angel and NY would seem like a really good place for her to go. I'm thinking something like Boyd+Stokes for Angel+Henry.
Something maybe should be added to one side or the other of the above. (We will take Shavonte if NY is really that zealous about dumping her salary.)
Of course, Angel would have to approve the deal and agree to play most of the season. |
I've moved on from the Angel to NY fantasy. With that said even at this stage in her career I think NY would have to give up more than just Boyd and Stokes probably have to throw in the 2018 first round pick, and Atl wouldn't have to include Henry. If NY management is in win now mode I think they would do it because this team would be the closest NY team to getting past Minny or LA
Prince/Hartley
Rodgers/Zellous/Schimmel
Angel/Allen
Charles/Burdick/#14
Vaughn/Zahui B.
but I don't think this move is in the cards for NY or Atlanta
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Randy
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| Posted: 04/05/17 3:04 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| Randy wrote: |
It is time for Atlanta to move on from Angel and NY would seem like a really good place for her to go. I'm thinking something like Boyd+Stokes for Angel+Henry.
Something maybe should be added to one side or the other of the above. (We will take Shavonte if NY is really that zealous about dumping her salary.)
Of course, Angel would have to approve the deal and agree to play most of the season. |
Why do you hate the Dream? |
No Dream hate here - just think Angel has taken the team as far as it can go. She's done great things for the team, but she is on the wrong side of 30, and is now is the time for the Dream to rebuild. Dream were sub 500 last year with Angel and she wants to take time off maybe the whole season. I don't see that much to lose.
Why Angel might be interested - a chance to play for a real contender. Why NY might be interested - fills the biggest need and the NY window is becoming limited too. They have been an early playoff exit, Angel has shown the ability to take a team to the finals.
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Shades
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| Posted: 04/05/17 3:58 pm ::: |
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I guess many would question if Boyd + Stokes for two players including McCoughtry is really rebuilding. Boyd is kinda marginal and Stokes had a surprising rookie year but hasn't elevated her game since then.
I consider McCoughtry one of the more fit players and in her prime now. If you want to trade your franchise player in her prime, you should expect more.
Usually fans want more than what is realistic in a trade. It's odd to see a fan want less than what is realistic.
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Randy
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
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| Posted: 04/05/17 6:01 pm ::: |
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Angel is probably not attainable and honestly I wouldn't trade Stokes anyway as the Liberty have no remote replacement for what she brings. Atlanta already has Williams, better offensively than Kiah and no slouch defensively, so there's no incentive from their end either.
Two trades I could see being a possibility would be Boyd and the 2018 first for Powers or Zellous for Christmas. Before I get destroyed for those proposals I think Dallas' mindset, style of play and needs might facilitate either of these. They play a high tempo. Boyd would give them the ability to push tempo and the 2018 first would provide another asset. Powers has potential but is not without flaws herself. I'd say it's a longshot but I don't think it's impossible. In the second proposal, Zellous would give Dallas more of a guard-type, which they can arguably use. Unless they view Walker-Kimbrough as a better option while retaining their small forward duo. Zellous would provide a speed edge and ability to increase tempo over Christmas though. And she'd go from one of the least-friendly offensive systems for a guard to one of the more favorable ones. Ditto Boyd in the first proposal. Believe me when I tell you it matters.
And with Mitchell no longer an option (one that they may have been counting on when they traded Sims) Boyd would provide a speed alternative.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
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| Posted: 04/05/17 7:21 pm ::: |
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| Is Zahui B. hurt? She hasn't played for quite awhile.
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LFO
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| Posted: 04/05/17 7:42 pm ::: |
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| Hamstring
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
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| Posted: 04/05/17 8:33 pm ::: |
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| Thanks. Appreciate the info.
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Diamond will go top 4.People on this board are really devaluing Diamond while overrating Gray/Davis
lol the girl is good no doubt she can play but do you guys think ESPN built a little much pressure on her during a season where she hasnt even played. She could take time to gel with the huskies instead of the immediate impact people are expecting . This seems like a Kaela Davis repeat all over again .
Tamika Catchings 2.0