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Happycappie25



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PostPosted: 08/27/17 8:48 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
root_thing wrote:
Or the Knicks wanting Stephen Curry, but settling for Jordan Hill with the next pick. Or the ABA Dispersal Draft, where the Knicks wanted Moses Malone but settled for Randy Denton with the next pick. Do you see where I'm coming from? Confused


I feel your pain. Like the Pacers getting Steve Stiponvich instead of Ralph Sampson....

But consider this - like the Liberty getting Brittany Boyd and Kia Stokes, instead of Zahui B, Hamby, Parker, Malott, or Logic or the Dream getting Sykes instead Ahkator or SWK.


we got Zahui B with the NEXT year's first round pick instead :\



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Randy



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PostPosted: 08/27/17 2:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The point is - unless it is the number one pick often the selection is more important than the pick.


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PostPosted: 08/27/17 4:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Liberty have clinched at least the #4 seed and will play on Sunday, September 10(time TBA).



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 08/27/17 8:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm hoping that the more they win, the less they need the draft help. 20-12 is pretty good for having the flux (some of it unexpected due to Boyd's injury) that they've had at PG.



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PostPosted: 08/27/17 9:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

#3 would be great but I don't really see the need. 5-8 are all about equal and if we get past the single elimination we'll have to play Minn or LA and if we get past that round Minn or LA (unless Conn pulls off the upset) so I'd rather play smart, keep Charles minutes (and injury potential down) and go into the playoffs rested and prepared.


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PostPosted: 08/27/17 9:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Yeah at this point 3 or 4 has lowered our draft options but we still might be able to get someone useful if not game changing. Someone from my current hopeful list (Nared, Canada, Billings, Nurse) might still be there.

OTOH our pick and a player could get back a decent experienced player or move us up to a decent spot in the draft if anyone is willing to give up their higher pick so we'll be OK.


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PostPosted: 08/27/17 9:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

nevermind, wrong thread.



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Happycappie25



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PostPosted: 08/27/17 9:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
#3 would be great but I don't really see the need. 5-8 are all about equal and if we get past the single elimination we'll have to play Minn or LA and if we get past that round Minn or LA (unless Conn pulls off the upset) so I'd rather play smart, keep Charles minutes (and injury potential down) and go into the playoffs rested and prepared.


Well I liked how we did it vs Indy and CHI...get a lead and put the onus on the bench to hold it...was so so and needed to get Charles back in mid 4th to protect vs Indy but Bench gave the team the rest it needed today...can do that vs SA and likely just coast with the field set against Dallas on Sunday...but at home on FAN Night I think the Libs at least try to establish vs a team like SA



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toad455



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PostPosted: 08/27/17 9:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Only way getting the #3 seed helps us is if Connecticut also advances to the WNBA Finals(or whoever Connecticut faces in the 2nd round). We'll also avoid Washington in the 2nd round(#5 seed likely).



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PostPosted: 08/27/17 9:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Only way getting the #3 seed helps us is if Connecticut also advances to the WNBA Finals(or whoever Connecticut faces in the 2nd round). We'll also avoid Washington in the 2nd round(#5 seed likely).


Assuming there aren't upsets in the first round, avoiding Washington in the 2nd round would mean a do-or-die game vs. Phoenix. That wasn't fun last season. I'd rather play Washington in that situation.



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PostPosted: 08/27/17 10:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Only way getting the #3 seed helps us is if Connecticut also advances to the WNBA Finals(or whoever Connecticut faces in the 2nd round). We'll also avoid Washington in the 2nd round(#5 seed likely).


Assuming there aren't upsets in the first round, avoiding Washington in the 2nd round would mean a do-or-die game vs. Phoenix. That wasn't fun last season. I'd rather play Washington in that situation.


If the seeding remains the same, I see Dallas taking out Phoenix in the first round.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 08/27/17 10:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Only way getting the #3 seed helps us is if Connecticut also advances to the WNBA Finals(or whoever Connecticut faces in the 2nd round). We'll also avoid Washington in the 2nd round(#5 seed likely).


Assuming there aren't upsets in the first round, avoiding Washington in the 2nd round would mean a do-or-die game vs. Phoenix. That wasn't fun last season. I'd rather play Washington in that situation.


Phoenix has 10 new players. Taurasi and Griner are back, but Taylor, Bonner, and Dupree are gone. Also, I don't expect them to go 24 for 24 at the free throw line again no matter who is on the team.



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PostPosted: 08/27/17 10:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

IMO, the Liberty are a much more talented team than Phoenix.

But really, do you want to play Diana Taurasi (even an old one) and Brittany Griner in a single elimination game, if you can help it?



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PostPosted: 08/27/17 10:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I can think of 10 good arguments for why it would be better to play Phoenix than Washington in round two. But Griner and especially Taurasi scare me more than Delle Donne or Meeseman. If it were a three-out-of-five series, I'd rather play Phoenix. But in just one do-or-die game, everything is risky.



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PostPosted: 08/27/17 10:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:
IMO, the Liberty are a much more talented team than Phoenix.

But really, do you want to play Diana Taurasi (even an old one) and Brittany Griner in a single elimination game, if you can help it?


I didn't see this as I was writing my comment just above. But this is exactly what I was getting at. My answer is "no," I definitely do not want to see Taurasi and Griner in a single elimination game.



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PostPosted: 08/27/17 11:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

That is pretty much what I meant about 5-8 being pretty equal. All four teams could beat us, we match up well against Seattle but Stewart is amaazing and if Loyd and Bird our on they can beat us. Dallas has the least experience but is pretty athletic again if Diggins and GloJo play their A game we will struggle with them. PX has Griner and DT Griner can kill us if our Centers aren't scoring and Taurasi is a fierce competitor, and Washington with EDD, Messeman and Toliver again playing their A game can easily beat us. I thnk we are slightly better than all of those teams as our record shows but all four can beat us in a 1 game elimination so I don't think it matters too much who we face from that group, which is why the 3 or 4 seed seems irrelevant. Unless both is and Conn pull of upsets against Minny and LA and then we get the home court against the Sun, but I'm not counting on that, and in a weird way I think I'd rather avoid Conn more than anyone in the playoffs (no offense to LA or Minn), so I'm really hoping that it doesn't play out that way.


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PostPosted: 08/27/17 11:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Any team that has big perimeter scoring (or one perimeter scorer who carries you) can beat you in an elimination game. Phoenix adds the brutal element of defending Griner. While I'm wary of Seattle and D.C., Phoenix worries me a little more.

I'd love to somehow play Dallas. I think they have the least chance of beating us. Their fourth quarter offense regularly breaks down and they're a terrible defensive team. Oh and they have almost no playoff experience. I'd give them little to no chance of beating us at home.



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PostPosted: 08/28/17 12:12 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
mercfan3 wrote:
IMO, the Liberty are a much more talented team than Phoenix.

But really, do you want to play Diana Taurasi (even an old one) and Brittany Griner in a single elimination game, if you can help it?


I didn't see this as I was writing my comment just above. But this is exactly what I was getting at. My answer is "no," I definitely do not want to see Taurasi and Griner in a single elimination game.


I think you're disrespecting Taylor, Bonner, and DuPree. You're turning them into minor actors in Phoenix's success. There are people who feel Penny's been the glue to this team and that they can't win anything without her. Taurasi and Griner alone are not enough on most nights. That's not to say the Mercury couldn't still win this year -- anything can happen in single elimination. But Taurasi and Griner combined for 52 points in that playoff game, and they still needed 20 from Taylor, 14 from Dupree, plus 24 for 24 shooting from the FT line to get it done. The Phoenix ball movement was superb in that game. They shared the ball in a way I didn't see them do all season. It was the Mercury team performance that got them that win -- not just superhuman effort by any individual. A much better Phoenix team had to play their A+ game to beat us last year. At this stage, the trio of EDD, Meesseman, and Toliver plus their supporting cast worry me more than Phoenix. If DC is able to get their act together, I think they can play a lot better than what we saw on Friday. Whether the Mystics get there in the short time remaining is another story.

As I've said in the past, I'm not hoping to play any team in particular. If you want to be the champion, then you can't be afraid of anyone. Either you're the best or you're not. Plus, I've been around long enough to heed the phrase, "be careful what you wish for."



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PostPosted: 08/28/17 1:09 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
mercfan3 wrote:
IMO, the Liberty are a much more talented team than Phoenix.

But really, do you want to play Diana Taurasi (even an old one) and Brittany Griner in a single elimination game, if you can help it?


I didn't see this as I was writing my comment just above. But this is exactly what I was getting at. My answer is "no," I definitely do not want to see Taurasi and Griner in a single elimination game.


I think you're disrespecting Taylor, Bonner, and DuPree. You're turning them into minor actors in Phoenix's success. There are people who feel Penny's been the glue to this team and that they can't win anything without her. Taurasi and Griner alone are not enough on most nights. That's not to say the Mercury couldn't still win this year -- anything can happen in single elimination. But Taurasi and Griner combined for 52 points in that playoff game, and they still needed 20 from Taylor, 14 from Dupree, plus 24 for 24 shooting from the FT line to get it done. The Phoenix ball movement was superb in that game. They shared the ball in a way I didn't see them do all season. It was the Mercury team performance that got them that win -- not just superhuman effort by any individual. A much better Phoenix team had to play their A+ game to beat us last year. At this stage, the trio of EDD, Meesseman, and Toliver plus their supporting cast worry me more than Phoenix. If DC is able to get their act together, I think they can play a lot better than what we saw on Friday. Whether the Mystics get there in the short time remaining is another story.

As I've said in the past, I'm not hoping to play any team in particular. If you want to be the champion, then you can't be afraid of anyone. Either you're the best or you're not. Plus, I've been around long enough to heed the phrase, "be careful what you wish for."


Sorry, just not with you on this. You are very focused on the stats from that one game that ended our 2016 season. I'm not. I'm not disrespecting anyone and certainly not outstanding players like Taylor, Bonner, and Dupree. All I'm saying is that Taurasi and Griner are terrific and I don't like the thought of a do-or-die game against them. And I don't seem to be alone in that concern.

As for how champions shouldn't be afraid of anyone, I'm not on the Liberty roster. If I'm afraid of Taurasi and Griner, that doesn't hurt New York one bit. Bill Laimbeer and the Liberty players don't care who I'm afraid of. I'm not going to be a champion when the 2017 playoffs are over, but I hope the coaches and players of my team will be.

Similarly, as for "be careful what you wish for," it doesn't affect anything what I wish for. That doesn't decide who plays whom in the playoffs. If we play Washington in the second round and lose, is it my fault for hoping we can bypass Phoenix? I don't think so.



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PostPosted: 08/28/17 2:04 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think you're both making good points. LFO said something in the post game presser that I was totally on board with. Paraphrasing but something to the effect of "it's about us now". Meaning if they play their game what they do is within their own control no matter who they play.

On the other hand, I also think the one and done adds a different element because any freaking thing can happen. Phoenix is 16-17 but if Griner decides to dominate and DT hits 5 or 6 contested 3s any team might be at their mercy including LA or Minnesota. I'd be less uptight playing Phoenix in a best of 5 (where their lack of depth would probably wear them down) than in one game. So I get feeling like we'd rather not play them. However, I'm with RT in one particular way. This team is way easier to defend than they were last year. They don't have the firepower to spread the floor. If you contain DT, you're not likely to lose to them.

But I get it. Griner is unique and forces teams to defend differently compared to any other player. Ever.

So basically I'm taking a stand and agreeing with you both. Just another slow-paced quagmire.



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PostPosted: 08/28/17 3:17 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm pretty psyched for the playoffs.

I think we've reversed our pattern from our previous two seasons. We had our injury in the beginning of the season, our confused and mediocre play in the middle of the season, and we seem to be having the putting it all together winning part of the season now. A little rest, combined with maintaining our momentum and I think we could actually make some noise in the post season.


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PostPosted: 08/28/17 7:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
I think you're both making good points. LFO said something in the post game presser that I was totally on board with. Paraphrasing but something to the effect of "it's about us now". Meaning if they play their game what they do is within their own control no matter who they play.

On the other hand, I also think the one and done adds a different element because any freaking thing can happen. Phoenix is 16-17 but if Griner decides to dominate and DT hits 5 or 6 contested 3s any team might be at their mercy including LA or Minnesota. I'd be less uptight playing Phoenix in a best of 5 (where their lack of depth would probably wear them down) than in one game. So I get feeling like we'd rather not play them. However, I'm with RT in one particular way. This team is way easier to defend than they were last year. They don't have the firepower to spread the floor. If you contain DT, you're not likely to lose to them.

But I get it. Griner is unique and forces teams to defend differently compared to any other player. Ever.

So basically I'm taking a stand and agreeing with you both. Just another slow-paced quagmire.


Yes, Phoenix is less dangerous than last season with Taylor, Bonner, and Dupree gone. No question. I still find the idea of a do-or-die game against them scary. I wouldn't feel that way about three-out-of-five.

I hate that in a 12-team league the 3rd and 4th seeds have to play do-or-die games in the second round. Really hate it. And I'd feel that way if New York were finishing 1st, 2nd, 5th, or 12th.



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PostPosted: 08/28/17 9:09 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:


I hate that in a 12-team league the 3rd and 4th seeds have to play do-or-die games in the second round. Really hate it. And I'd feel that way if New York were finishing 1st, 2nd, 5th, or 12th.


I thought it was a lot of fun last year (of course, Phoenix fan), but I also see how it's problematic. I guess having homecourt and a first round bye are the advantages.

When it comes to Phoenix, obviously I'm selfishly hoping to avoid them because I'd rather my two favorite teams didn't meet in the playoffs. (I'd like Phoenix to get knocked out by Minnesota again, Thank you very much. Laughing )

Here's my take on it, Phoenix was more talented last season..technically. But a lot of the talent was old and hurt. They're a better team this season. I actually think we could win a game against Minnesota in the playoffs if we could get there. Wink But truly, they're dangerous. They were one of the best teams in the league prior to Griner being injured, and she's back. DT in the playoffs is going to be different than DT in the regular season. They're scary.

However, New York is just plain good. They're the best team in the league with Hartley starting (record wise). More importantly, BL thinks they're good. This is a team with a legit shot at a title. And not a 5% chance, but a "Sparks and Lynx aren't the only kid in town" kind of way. (CT isn't there yet, IMO.) So if it all came down to it, I'd probably root against Diana for the first time in my life. They aren't going to improve too much offensively in the playoffs, but I think they can be even better defensively (It's a BL team..), which is what will matter anyway.



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PostPosted: 08/28/17 9:16 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
I think you're both making good points. LFO said something in the post game presser that I was totally on board with. Paraphrasing but something to the effect of "it's about us now". Meaning if they play their game what they do is within their own control no matter who they play.

On the other hand, I also think the one and done adds a different element because any freaking thing can happen. Phoenix is 16-17 but if Griner decides to dominate and DT hits 5 or 6 contested 3s any team might be at their mercy including LA or Minnesota. I'd be less uptight playing Phoenix in a best of 5 (where their lack of depth would probably wear them down) than in one game. So I get feeling like we'd rather not play them. However, I'm with RT in one particular way. This team is way easier to defend than they were last year. They don't have the firepower to spread the floor. If you contain DT, you're not likely to lose to them.

But I get it. Griner is unique and forces teams to defend differently compared to any other player. Ever.

So basically I'm taking a stand and agreeing with you both. Just another slow-paced quagmire.


Yes, Phoenix is less dangerous than last season with Taylor, Bonner, and Dupree gone. No question. I still find the idea of a do-or-die game against them scary. I wouldn't feel that way about three-out-of-five.

I hate that in a 12-team league the 3rd and 4th seeds have to play do-or-die games in the second round. Really hate it. And I'd feel that way if New York were finishing 1st, 2nd, 5th, or 12th.


Agree. Third and fourth place teams should not be playing one and dones. I thought the same thing as soon as the format was announced.



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PostPosted: 08/28/17 9:34 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Honestly I hate the 1 & done. the 3rd or 4th seed doesn't really matter in my opinion because anything can happen, they should expand it to 3 game series. It sucks last year was heartbreaking to watch, because all of that work for nothing down the drain over 1 game? what if that happens again this year? It wouldn't surprise me one bit


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PostPosted: 08/28/17 10:02 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Yeah, as I've said many times, I don't like that teams that finished as high as 3rd could be finished in the postseason after one game. I also think it defeats the purpose of the new system, because it allows a strong possibility that the top two teams end up playing weaker opponents in the semis, leading to one-sided semi-final series. They want the best teams playing in the Finals, but they also want the best teams in the best-of-five semis when they're drawing (relatively speaking) lots of eyes.

It's why I keep advocating a version of the AFL playoffs system: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFL_final_eight_system . In troduce an element of double-elimination to somewhat protect the teams that have earned the higher spot. More than just home court in a one-off playoff.



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PostPosted: 08/28/17 10:04 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
Any team that has big perimeter scoring (or one perimeter scorer who carries you) can beat you in an elimination game. Phoenix adds the brutal element of defending Griner. While I'm wary of Seattle and D.C., Phoenix worries me a little more.

I'd love to somehow play Dallas. I think they have the least chance of beating us. Their fourth quarter offense regularly breaks down and they're a terrible defensive team. Oh and they have almost no playoff experience. I'd give them little to no chance of beating us at home.


Be careful what you wish for . Remember it took overtime to beat us last time out and we also have 1 more matchup to end the season Sept 3rd! ill be in attendance so i know we will win & If not guess what ? #PP's !!!! Twisted Evil



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PostPosted: 08/28/17 10:38 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:

Sorry, just not with you on this. You are very focused on the stats from that one game that ended our 2016 season. I'm not. I'm not disrespecting anyone and certainly not outstanding players like Taylor, Bonner, and Dupree. All I'm saying is that Taurasi and Griner are terrific and I don't like the thought of a do-or-die game against them. And I don't seem to be alone in that concern.

As for how champions shouldn't be afraid of anyone, I'm not on the Liberty roster. If I'm afraid of Taurasi and Griner, that doesn't hurt New York one bit. Bill Laimbeer and the Liberty players don't care who I'm afraid of. I'm not going to be a champion when the 2017 playoffs are over, but I hope the coaches and players of my team will be.

Similarly, as for "be careful what you wish for," it doesn't affect anything what I wish for. That doesn't decide who plays whom in the playoffs. If we play Washington in the second round and lose, is it my fault for hoping we can bypass Phoenix? I don't think so.


Look at your original post:

Bob Lamm wrote:

Assuming there aren't upsets in the first round, avoiding Washington in the 2nd round would mean a do-or-die game vs. Phoenix. That wasn't fun last season. I'd rather play Washington in that situation.


I think I responded directly to your statement. You were referring specifically to last year's loss and suggesting that this year's experience could be similar. That's why I referenced that particular game and noted that 10 players are missing. That's 83% of the team, including Taylor, Dupree, and Bonner. For the experience to be similar, that could only mean that the missing players were insignificant or readily replaceable.

You also blurred the lines between yourself and the team when you said: "I'd rather play Washington." Obviously, you were never going to "play" anybody. So, when I said a champion shouldn't be afraid of anybody, I was doing the same thing. It's pretty clear that nothing in this discussion was ever about the attitude of players or coaches. This was always about what we as fans feel.



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PostPosted: 08/28/17 10:50 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:

Sorry, just not with you on this. You are very focused on the stats from that one game that ended our 2016 season. I'm not. I'm not disrespecting anyone and certainly not outstanding players like Taylor, Bonner, and Dupree. All I'm saying is that Taurasi and Griner are terrific and I don't like the thought of a do-or-die game against them. And I don't seem to be alone in that concern.

As for how champions shouldn't be afraid of anyone, I'm not on the Liberty roster. If I'm afraid of Taurasi and Griner, that doesn't hurt New York one bit. Bill Laimbeer and the Liberty players don't care who I'm afraid of. I'm not going to be a champion when the 2017 playoffs are over, but I hope the coaches and players of my team will be.

Similarly, as for "be careful what you wish for," it doesn't affect anything what I wish for. That doesn't decide who plays whom in the playoffs. If we play Washington in the second round and lose, is it my fault for hoping we can bypass Phoenix? I don't think so.


Look at your original post:

Bob Lamm wrote:

Assuming there aren't upsets in the first round, avoiding Washington in the 2nd round would mean a do-or-die game vs. Phoenix. That wasn't fun last season. I'd rather play Washington in that situation.


I think I responded directly to your statement. You were referring specifically to last year's loss and suggesting that this year's experience could be similar. That's why I referenced that particular game and noted that 10 players are missing. That's 83% of the team, including Taylor, Dupree, and Bonner. For the experience to be similar, that could only mean that the missing players were insignificant or readily replaceable.

You also blurred the lines between yourself and the team when you said: "I'd rather play Washington." Obviously, you were never going to "play" anybody. So, when I said a champion shouldn't be afraid of anybody, I was doing the same thing. It's pretty clear that nothing in this discussion was ever about the attitude of players or coaches. This was always about what we as fans feel.


This is like a high school debate. I concede. Hardly worth it.



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PostPosted: 08/28/17 10:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
I'm pretty psyched for the playoffs.

I think we've reversed our pattern from our previous two seasons. We had our injury in the beginning of the season, our confused and mediocre play in the middle of the season, and we seem to be having the putting it all together winning part of the season now. A little rest, combined with maintaining our momentum and I think we could actually make some noise in the post season.


Me too. Anything can happen in a one and done of course. But the Libs are a better offensive team this year than they were last year. Better balance, more depth.



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PostPosted: 08/28/17 10:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Regarding the discussion about the playoff format, I'm still at a loss why you can't have a six-team playoff with two byes and best of three first rounds. 7 and 8 have almost no chance to make the finals, and they get no home games until semis game 3 if they get there. It's absurd.



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PostPosted: 08/28/17 11:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
Regarding the discussion about the playoff format, I'm still at a loss why you can't have a six-team playoff with two byes and best of three first rounds. 7 and 8 have almost no chance to make the finals, and they get no home games until semis game 3 if they get there. It's absurd.


What you've proposed here would be far better than the current system.

I believe the answer to your "why" question is simply money. The more teams that qualify for the playoffs, the more franchises where fans may come to late-season games. It's not just that the #7 and #8 teams make the playoffs. (I'd argue that they shouldn't.) The #9 and #10 teams are often still in the hunt until the end of August so those fans have reason not to stay home.



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PostPosted: 08/29/17 5:52 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm hoping in a few years the play-offs will get changed to where to the first round is a best-of-3(#1 vs. #8, etc.) & the semis & Finals remain a best-of-5.



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PostPosted: 08/29/17 7:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
Regarding the discussion about the playoff format, I'm still at a loss why you can't have a six-team playoff with two byes and best of three first rounds. 7 and 8 have almost no chance to make the finals, and they get no home games until semis game 3 if they get there. It's absurd.


I agree letting only the top 6 in. I'd go for the top 4.

As for why - I think owners want to be able to claim their team was a playoff team for marketing purposes and to hype the playoff races as Bob says. However, marginal teams fail to draw any kind of decent crowd for playoffs and teams frequently have to find an alternate arena. The result is embarrassing crowds often in alternate arenas. Even the Lynx have to go to different arena this year. As a result, the marginal teams want in, but don't want to have series go very long.


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PostPosted: 08/29/17 7:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
As a result, the marginal teams want in, but don't want to have series go very long.


The league has perhaps found the perfect compromise in allowing eight teams in but having the first two rounds be one-and-done



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PostPosted: 08/29/17 8:46 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Read this article, Great analysis of the eight game winning streak.

https://summitthoops.com/2017/08/29/new-york-liberty-8-game-winning-streak-wnba-playoffs/

The guards are noticing the extra attention that shades toward Charles even before she has touched the ball and catch defenses leaning with their crisp ball movement. I mentioned their spacing, which is vital to allow Charles to hit the open player out of a double team. LaChina Robinson may have beat me to it in really singing her praises, but Bria Hartley’s excellence in some of the game’s subtleties has really allowed her to shine in her starting role.


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PostPosted: 08/29/17 8:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Randy wrote:
As a result, the marginal teams want in, but don't want to have series go very long.


The league has perhaps found the perfect compromise in allowing eight teams in but having the first two rounds be one-and-done

I'm fine with that for teams that finish 5-8, but it feels a bit harsh on the ones finishing 3rd/4th. The Liberty could end up winning 43 games over two years and only playing two total playoff games. Obviously it'd be their own fault for crapping the bed in two home playoff games, but anything can happen in one-off games, which is why they play series.

Maybe they should make the second round semi-double elimination. If the 3rd/4th seed wins Game 1, it's over; if they lose it goes to a deciding game back at the lower seed's arena. I just feel like the 3rd/4th needs a little more protection, more reward for the regular season performance.



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PostPosted: 08/29/17 9:17 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

One of the things I believe is that in no professional sport should a team be in the playoffs if its regular season record is below .500. Any team that would qualify simply based on a seeding system would forfeit its first round do-or-die game or its first round series.

This doesn't address the issue of second round do-or-die games in the current WNBA playoff setup. It just bothers me when mediocrity is rewarded in the name of money. Even a .500 record is no great achievement. But if your team finishes a WNBA season at 16-18, why should they be in the playoffs?

Obviously what I'm proposing here is never going to happen in any professional league in the U.S. I doubt that the WNBA would even cut the number of playoff teams from eight out of 12 to six, but I wish it would.



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PostPosted: 08/29/17 9:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
Maybe they should make the second round semi-double elimination. If the 3rd/4th seed wins Game 1, it's over; if they lose it goes to a deciding game back at the lower seed's arena. I just feel like the 3rd/4th needs a little more protection, more reward for the regular season performance.


Imagine the scenario where the #4 & #5 seeds are determined by the 2nd tiebreaker, and now you're the #5 seed and you're expected to win two successive games over the #4 seed to their one game. That would be total bs. Leave it the way it is now. If you can't step up and win a home playoff game over a tired opponent, you deserve your fate.



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PostPosted: 08/29/17 10:15 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

No one will come up with a perfect playoff system, and this one is as good as any. It has improved the games in the last week of the season. At present it seems like just about every spot from 1-8 is up for grabs in the last 2 or 3 games. So that is a benefit. I agree with Bob that any team that can't win half their games probably shouldn't be in the playoffs.


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PostPosted: 08/29/17 10:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think a big issue was the really bad attendance at first-round playoff games in the past. Without time to market, and with game ones usually on a weeknight after school had started, it was pretty ugly. From an owner's perspective, why play an extra game that costs you money? The playoffs are supposed to be a chance to make up for regular season deficits, not add to them.



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PostPosted: 08/29/17 11:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
I think a big issue was the really bad attendance at first-round playoff games in the past. Without time to market, and with game ones usually on a weeknight after school had started, it was pretty ugly. From an owner's perspective, why play an extra game that costs you money? The playoffs are supposed to be a chance to make up for regular season deficits, not add to them.

But the owners clearly want to make the playoffs - or at least have the possibility of making them - or we'd have dropped below two-thirds of the league making the postseason. That's higher than any of the major US men's sports leagues. So either they're still making money from these early playoff games with crappy attendance, or the increased interest in late-season games from still having a chance to make the playoffs is enough to off-set any potential losses from the added game(s).



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PostPosted: 08/29/17 12:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
ClayK wrote:
I think a big issue was the really bad attendance at first-round playoff games in the past. Without time to market, and with game ones usually on a weeknight after school had started, it was pretty ugly. From an owner's perspective, why play an extra game that costs you money? The playoffs are supposed to be a chance to make up for regular season deficits, not add to them.

But the owners clearly want to make the playoffs - or at least have the possibility of making them - or we'd have dropped below two-thirds of the league making the postseason. That's higher than any of the major US men's sports leagues. So either they're still making money from these early playoff games with crappy attendance, or the increased interest in late-season games from still having a chance to make the playoffs is enough to off-set any potential losses from the added game(s).


I agree with Richyyy. The issue raised by ClayK about lousy attendance for first-round games can't be viewed in isolation. It has to be seen in a larger context which includes (a) presumably increasing attendance for late-season games for every team in contention for the 7th or 8th playoff slot;
(b) TV money for the first-round games; and (c) the impact of making the playoffs on season-ticket sales for the following season. Only if we have reliable data on all of that can we begin to assess whether various franchises and the league as a whole benefit financially from having eight teams in the playoffs instead of six.



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PostPosted: 08/29/17 2:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I agree with Bob and Richyyy ... I didn't make it clear that my point was more about why the first-round series are just one game. The best-of-three series tended to lose money because of bad attendance, so it made sense to drop to one game.

If the first-round single-game playoff games start to draw 8,000 actual bodies, then a move to best-of-three makes sense.



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PostPosted: 08/29/17 2:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
I agree with Bob and Richyyy ... I didn't make it clear that my point was more about why the first-round series are just one game. The best-of-three series tended to lose money because of bad attendance, so it made sense to drop to one game.

If the first-round single-game playoff games start to draw 8,000 actual bodies, then a move to best-of-three makes sense.


Thanks, Clay. Now I understand better what you were addressing. Sorry if I misunderstood.

I'd still prefer just six teams in the playoffs. Two-out-of-three in the first round, three-out-of-five in the semis, three-out-of-five in the finals.



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PostPosted: 08/29/17 4:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The no less than 500 teams rule would also be easy to work out. Just give a bye to the team that would have otherwise faced them.


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PostPosted: 08/29/17 5:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
ClayK wrote:
I agree with Bob and Richyyy ... I didn't make it clear that my point was more about why the first-round series are just one game. The best-of-three series tended to lose money because of bad attendance, so it made sense to drop to one game.

If the first-round single-game playoff games start to draw 8,000 actual bodies, then a move to best-of-three makes sense.


Thanks, Clay. Now I understand better what you were addressing. Sorry if I misunderstood.

I'd still prefer just six teams in the playoffs. Two-out-of-three in the first round, three-out-of-five in the semis, three-out-of-five in the finals.


But then that would eliminate some teams pretty early and make too many games meaningless late in the season. The Storm got 13,000 people in part because this last game mattered. Had it been 6 teams, Phoenix would have clinched early in the day and the Storm would have been out. Single elimination games are very common overseas and at the college level and I find them an acceptable compromise over people losing interest in the regular season.


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PostPosted: 08/30/17 1:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

2017 Team Photo Today



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PostPosted: 08/30/17 3:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Did Boyd lose her contact lens or is she about to run a race?



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PostPosted: 09/01/17 11:13 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Recent story about a man saved by Charles' foundation. Not sure if Tina has actually given her entire salary every year. I heard it was 100% in 2016, but 50% in 2015 and 2017. Regardless, she's still very generous.

https://sports.yahoo.com/wnba-star-saved-life-man-never-met-212426292.html



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