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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 02/10/17 6:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

There's still a disconnect somewhere in how a team can start three All-WNBA players, Clark who we all basically love as a role player, and a former all-star who hasn't dropped off that much in Langhorne, and still finish under .500. Something there wasn't as good as people perceived it to be last season. A crappy bench can only hurt you so much.



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Michelle89



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PostPosted: 02/10/17 6:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
There's still a disconnect somewhere in how a team can start three All-WNBA players, Clark who we all basically love as a role player, and a former all-star who hasn't dropped off that much in Langhorne, and still finish under .500. Something there wasn't as good as people perceived it to be last season. A crappy bench can only hurt you so much.


Langhorne averaged 9,5 pts last season. Thats a dropoff to me. Combine that with a bad offensive output from your bench and all the pressure falls on Stewart, Loyd and Bird to do all the heavy lifting on the offense.

But the biggest problem to me was the poor post defense. Playing Stewart and Langhorne together for most of the time just doesnt work on the defensive side. Langhorne is a very soft defender and her rebounding has dropped off. Tbh she might be one of the weakest defenders at the post (starting players) positions. She just doesnt put a body on opponents at all.

Having Swords off the bench allows Stewart to take more of a break on defense and have her defend PF's when Swords is in. She blocks out better then Langhorne and just takes up more space to protect the paint.

2nd biggest problem that the Storm had last season was turnovers. I think they averaged almost the most turnovers in the league? I have never seen so many passes into the crowd or to opponents. Like so many silly mistakes, lack of focus etc. Hopefully we will clean that up this season..



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"Sue Bird and Lauren Jackson were and are the dynamic duo. They're the one-two punch. They're all the clich�s possible to describe people that perfectly complement each other, who make each other better and also bring out the best in the team." �Karen Bryant


Last edited by Michelle89 on 02/10/17 7:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
Nerd2



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PostPosted: 02/10/17 6:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
There's still a disconnect somewhere in how a team can start three All-WNBA players, Clark who we all basically love as a role player, and a former all-star who hasn't dropped off that much in Langhorne, and still finish under .500. Something there wasn't as good as people perceived it to be last season. A crappy bench can only hurt you so much.


Give me a break. Two thirds of the league finished around .500. It took half the year to really get all the pieces working together smoothly since two of those players had 1 year and 0 years in the league. Remember that they were not expected to make the playoffs and it took a 7-3 finish to the season to move them into the playoffs.


myrtle



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PostPosted: 02/10/17 7:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Michelle89 wrote:


But the biggest problem to me was the poor post defense. Playing Stewart and Langhorne together for most of the time just doesnt work on the defensive side. Langhorne is a very soft defender and her rebounding has dropped off. Tbh she might be one of the weakest defenders at the post (starting players) positions. She just doesnt put a body on opponents at all.



Agree with this. the post defense was definitely a big weakness.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 02/10/17 8:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:


But the biggest problem to me was the poor post defense. Playing Stewart and Langhorne together for most of the time just doesnt work on the defensive side. Langhorne is a very soft defender and her rebounding has dropped off. Tbh she might be one of the weakest defenders at the post (starting players) positions. She just doesnt put a body on opponents at all.



Agree with this. the post defense was definitely a big weakness.


Langhorne isn't a center. It was surprising when Seattle resigned her.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 02/10/17 8:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:


But the biggest problem to me was the poor post defense. Playing Stewart and Langhorne together for most of the time just doesnt work on the defensive side. Langhorne is a very soft defender and her rebounding has dropped off. Tbh she might be one of the weakest defenders at the post (starting players) positions. She just doesnt put a body on opponents at all.



Agree with this. the post defense was definitely a big weakness.

Stewart's pretty good defensively, better than either Meesseman or Delle Donne.



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 02/10/17 9:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
myrtle wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:


But the biggest problem to me was the poor post defense. Playing Stewart and Langhorne together for most of the time just doesnt work on the defensive side. Langhorne is a very soft defender and her rebounding has dropped off. Tbh she might be one of the weakest defenders at the post (starting players) positions. She just doesnt put a body on opponents at all.



Agree with this. the post defense was definitely a big weakness.

Stewart's pretty good defensively, better than either Meesseman or Delle Donne.


true. but definitely not a banger...which is what they have lacked - a starting banger center.



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 02/10/17 10:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
Shades wrote:
myrtle wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:


But the biggest problem to me was the poor post defense. Playing Stewart and Langhorne together for most of the time just doesnt work on the defensive side. Langhorne is a very soft defender and her rebounding has dropped off. Tbh she might be one of the weakest defenders at the post (starting players) positions. She just doesnt put a body on opponents at all.



Agree with this. the post defense was definitely a big weakness.

Stewart's pretty good defensively, better than either Meesseman or Delle Donne.


true. but definitely not a banger...which is what they have lacked - a starting banger center.


I would probably switch it around and start Swords alongside Stewart, similar to how it worked in NY. Let Swords do the rim protection and banging, let Stewart do the scoring and defend the smaller of the two posts. Bring Langhorne in for Stewart to continue the scoring at the PF spot, and/or bring Langhorne in for Swords with Stewart on the floor when the other team is smaller, or playing their second string center.


Nerd2



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PostPosted: 02/10/17 10:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
myrtle wrote:
Shades wrote:
myrtle wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:


But the biggest problem to me was the poor post defense. Playing Stewart and Langhorne together for most of the time just doesnt work on the defensive side. Langhorne is a very soft defender and her rebounding has dropped off. Tbh she might be one of the weakest defenders at the post (starting players) positions. She just doesnt put a body on opponents at all.



Agree with this. the post defense was definitely a big weakness.

Stewart's pretty good defensively, better than either Meesseman or Delle Donne.


true. but definitely not a banger...which is what they have lacked - a starting banger center.


I would probably switch it around and start Swords alongside Stewart, similar to how it worked in NY. Let Swords do the rim protection and banging, let Stewart do the scoring and defend the smaller of the two posts. Bring Langhorne in for Stewart to continue the scoring at the PF spot, and/or bring Langhorne in for Swords with Stewart on the floor when the other team is smaller, or playing their second string center.


Don't forget Taku.


Michelle89



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PostPosted: 02/11/17 4:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nerd2 wrote:
J-Spoon wrote:
myrtle wrote:
Shades wrote:
myrtle wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:


But the biggest problem to me was the poor post defense. Playing Stewart and Langhorne together for most of the time just doesnt work on the defensive side. Langhorne is a very soft defender and her rebounding has dropped off. Tbh she might be one of the weakest defenders at the post (starting players) positions. She just doesnt put a body on opponents at all.



Agree with this. the post defense was definitely a big weakness.

Stewart's pretty good defensively, better than either Meesseman or Delle Donne.


true. but definitely not a banger...which is what they have lacked - a starting banger center.


I would probably switch it around and start Swords alongside Stewart, similar to how it worked in NY. Let Swords do the rim protection and banging, let Stewart do the scoring and defend the smaller of the two posts. Bring Langhorne in for Stewart to continue the scoring at the PF spot, and/or bring Langhorne in for Swords with Stewart on the floor when the other team is smaller, or playing their second string center.


Don't forget Taku.


Yeah thats why i think they are gonna keep starting Langhorne and have Swords and Taku off the bench. But with Swords at center they can keep Langhorne s minutes down IMO 20-25 min



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Nerd2



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PostPosted: 02/11/17 4:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Michelle89 wrote:


Yeah thats why i think they are gonna keep starting Langhorne and have Swords and Taku off the bench. But with Swords at center they can keep Langhorne s minutes down IMO 20-25 min


I would be mad as hell if all we had to show for that trade was a player who does not protect Stewart from bruises in the paint. Fans already think we got fleeced in the Wright-for-Monty trade. If Swords doesn't get minutes the grumbling will start again.


Rachel_1511



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PostPosted: 02/12/17 7:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Going to be interesting to see how Whitcomb's minutes effect O'Hea's ... while Jenna might get the more vet status to begin with, I think ultimately, unless she takes her game to another level, Sami will be bumping her down the bench, as she is, IMHO, faster and more creative. Though their games are quite similar - so it will be a nice headache for the coaches to have!


Nerd2



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PostPosted: 02/12/17 8:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Rachel_1511 wrote:
Going to be interesting to see how Whitcomb's minutes effect O'Hea's ... while Jenna might get the more vet status to begin with, I think ultimately, unless she takes her game to another level, Sami will be bumping her down the bench, as she is, IMHO, faster and more creative. Though their games are quite similar - so it will be a nice headache for the coaches to have!


Jenna practically got no minutes already as they used KML instead. Jenna became more of a defensive specialist. It'll be interesting to see how Sami can defend.


Rachel_1511



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PostPosted: 02/12/17 8:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nerd2 wrote:
Jenna practically got no minutes already as they used KML instead. Jenna became more of a defensive specialist. It'll be interesting to see how Sami can defend.


Ohh ok thanks, good points, and that changes things a bit then! not as direct competition as I imagined then!
From the (limited in person) I have seen, not in defensive specialist category, but solid enough! Perth as a team are big on the full court pressure at times, so certainly up there for hussle and high energy ... leading the league in steals too! Smile


Michelle89



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PostPosted: 02/13/17 5:38 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nerd2 wrote:
Rachel_1511 wrote:
Going to be interesting to see how Whitcomb's minutes effect O'Hea's ... while Jenna might get the more vet status to begin with, I think ultimately, unless she takes her game to another level, Sami will be bumping her down the bench, as she is, IMHO, faster and more creative. Though their games are quite similar - so it will be a nice headache for the coaches to have!


Jenna practically got no minutes already as they used KML instead. Jenna became more of a defensive specialist. It'll be interesting to see how Sami can defend.


I hope to see a healthy Jenna back in the rotation as a backup to Alysha Clark(SF spot). When Sue goes to the bench, have Loyd bring up the ball and let Sami and KML fight for minutes at that backup SG position



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"Sue Bird and Lauren Jackson were and are the dynamic duo. They're the one-two punch. They're all the clich�s possible to describe people that perfectly complement each other, who make each other better and also bring out the best in the team." �Karen Bryant
Luuuc



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PostPosted: 02/13/17 5:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Michelle89 wrote:
Nerd2 wrote:
Rachel_1511 wrote:
Going to be interesting to see how Whitcomb's minutes effect O'Hea's ... while Jenna might get the more vet status to begin with, I think ultimately, unless she takes her game to another level, Sami will be bumping her down the bench, as she is, IMHO, faster and more creative. Though their games are quite similar - so it will be a nice headache for the coaches to have!


Jenna practically got no minutes already as they used KML instead. Jenna became more of a defensive specialist. It'll be interesting to see how Sami can defend.


I hope to see a healthy Jenna back in the rotation as a backup to Alysha Clark(SF spot). When Sue goes to the bench, have Loyd bring up the ball and let Sami and KML fight for minutes at that backup SG position


Yes, Whitcomb and O'Hea are definitely not competing for the same minutes. Sami is strictly a guard. She can defend though, don't worry about that. Put her on the floor and just wait for what should be EASY D!



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Nerd2



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PostPosted: 02/13/17 3:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Michelle89 wrote:
Nerd2 wrote:
Rachel_1511 wrote:
Going to be interesting to see how Whitcomb's minutes effect O'Hea's ... while Jenna might get the more vet status to begin with, I think ultimately, unless she takes her game to another level, Sami will be bumping her down the bench, as she is, IMHO, faster and more creative. Though their games are quite similar - so it will be a nice headache for the coaches to have!


Jenna practically got no minutes already as they used KML instead. Jenna became more of a defensive specialist. It'll be interesting to see how Sami can defend.


I hope to see a healthy Jenna back in the rotation as a backup to Alysha Clark(SF spot). When Sue goes to the bench, have Loyd bring up the ball and let Sami and KML fight for minutes at that backup SG position


Really hoping this is what we get as well. I think it's 50-50 as to whether Abby Bishop will choose to come over and if she doesn't perhaps Greene will fit there.


Rachel_1511



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PostPosted: 02/15/17 7:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Thanks all, some good points and food for thought!

O'Hea as a back up to Clark ... I just don't know where O'Hea is injury or form wise -- but if she can do that, all power to her!


canadaball



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PostPosted: 02/19/17 12:48 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
There's still a disconnect somewhere in how a team can start three All-WNBA players, Clark who we all basically love as a role player, and a former all-star who hasn't dropped off that much in Langhorne, and still finish under .500. Something there wasn't as good as people perceived it to be last season. A crappy bench can only hurt you so much.


Ever since the memorable (?disgraceful) 2015 tank, I have watched Seattle closely, and am quite happy that despite 3 All Stars, the team sucks. The management is good at losing games to get the most lottery balls; not so good at putting together a winning team. Last year's team had 3 major weaknesses: (1) lack of athleticism (especially Clarke and Langhorne) which led to poor rebounding and defense; (2) No effective guards past Bird and Loyd; (3) the worst bench in league characterized by a bunch of players with no speed who cannot jump. Seattle desperately needs blue collar players who will do the dirty work. The Clarke story is wonderful, but she does not have the skill set to play 25-30 minutes at the 3 (with no one behind her to boot). Clarke works so hard, and plays smart but she is way overmatched against the better small forwards. This smart, hustling kid just does not jump.
Carolyn Swords seems like a good pickup to give the team more size in the paint, but when u need major minutes from Clarke, Quinn (would not be on any other roster) and KML (aka "Stumpy") the team is destined for mediocrity despite the presence of 3 of the top 20 players in the league.
Do not forget that last year's team was 100% healthy all year (when so many opponents were devastated by injury), yet still finished below .500. Given the ticking clock on Bird, (at 35 she had best year ever, but who knows about 36?) it is far more likely this team is on the way down, rather than becoming a title contender.


Nerd2



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PostPosted: 02/19/17 1:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

canadaball wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
There's still a disconnect somewhere in how a team can start three All-WNBA players, Clark who we all basically love as a role player, and a former all-star who hasn't dropped off that much in Langhorne, and still finish under .500. Something there wasn't as good as people perceived it to be last season. A crappy bench can only hurt you so much.


Ever since the memorable (?disgraceful) 2015 tank, I have watched Seattle closely, and am quite happy that despite 3 All Stars, the team sucks. The management is good at losing games to get the most lottery balls; not so good at putting together a winning team. Last year's team had 3 major weaknesses: (1) lack of athleticism (especially Clarke and Langhorne) which led to poor rebounding and defense; (2) No effective guards past Bird and Loyd; (3) the worst bench in league characterized by a bunch of players with no speed who cannot jump. Seattle desperately needs blue collar players who will do the dirty work. The Clarke story is wonderful, but she does not have the skill set to play 25-30 minutes at the 3 (with no one behind her to boot). Clarke works so hard, and plays smart but she is way overmatched against the better small forwards. This smart, hustling kid just does not jump.
Carolyn Swords seems like a good pickup to give the team more size in the paint, but when u need major minutes from Clarke, Quinn (would not be on any other roster) and KML (aka "Stumpy") the team is destined for mediocrity despite the presence of 3 of the top 20 players in the league.
Do not forget that last year's team was 100% healthy all year (when so many opponents were devastated by injury), yet still finished below .500. Given the ticking clock on Bird, (at 35 she had best year ever, but who knows about 36?) it is far more likely this team is on the way down, rather than becoming a title contender.


I did not find what they did to be disgraceful. They needed to get rid of Camille Little and Tanisha Wright, two players who were nasty as heck to a good portion of the fans and unwilling to do what it took to bring along younger players. And I will say it again: Sue Bird would have been G-O-N-E if it hadn't been for what they did in 2015. Storm were old. They needed to get young. That was a painful process.

The team decided to rebuild. They said it would take three years. They played all their players the vast majority of the season and only sat the starters the last couple of games after they had been eliminated. You consider that "tanking" but I don't. Certainly not the Lynx who basically had Maya not even make the trip for their last game. And not the Stars who had Moriah AND Kayla AND DRob all sitting that last game.

There were twelve teams. 3 of them finished above .500. And one who did blew it in their first playoff game against the lowest seed. Phoenix was ALSO 100% healthy, had the people back from its 2014 title run and actually ended up worse than the Storm.


tfan



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PostPosted: 02/19/17 5:24 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nerd2 wrote:

I did not find what they did to be disgraceful. They needed to get rid of Camille Little and Tanisha Wright, two players who were nasty as heck to a good portion of the fans.


How were they nasty to fans?


Michelle89



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PostPosted: 02/19/17 5:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
Nerd2 wrote:

I did not find what they did to be disgraceful. They needed to get rid of Camille Little and Tanisha Wright, two players who were nasty as heck to a good portion of the fans.


How were they nasty to fans?


Yesw i want to know aswell. I never heard any bad things about those 2 at all. Loved them both on the team. 2 players that gave it their absolute all every minute that they were on the floor.



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Nerd2



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PostPosted: 02/19/17 6:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
Nerd2 wrote:

I did not find what they did to be disgraceful. They needed to get rid of Camille Little and Tanisha Wright, two players who were nasty as heck to a good portion of the fans.


How were they nasty to fans?


Both of them didn't really like the fan meet and greets and were sometimes rather short with fans. Tanisha was heard to say to Ashley Robinson how she couldn't understand why she ever wanted to talk to fans. And any autograph signing was grudging. They always gave their all on the court for sure but between them and LJ's total shyness they were somewhat unapproachable.


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PostPosted: 02/19/17 11:56 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Langhorne is undersized to play the 5 and doesn't have the skill to play the 4. They have tried to remedy it with Swords. Swords can't guard quickness but Lang can and Lang can't guard size ...so the addition should help if they are used in the right circumstances, but neither of them - nor Stewie - can guard bruisers so that will remain a problem.

I don't think Clark is the problem. Yeah, she's not as good as Maya or Angel, but who is? You can't have an allstar at every position and she fulfills her role much better than most role players. I actually think they underutilize her offense. Of the three shooters, she had the least attempts but second best (behind Birdie) percentage. At 39% she is way better than Stewie (34%) or Loyd (30%) (and BTW, better than KML, the designated 3 shooter, as well). Why have Loyd hoisting all those threes? Use her for what she is good at - slashing and mid-range jumpers. So... it seems to me they need to better utilize what they have, including the allstars. For that matter, I thought Stewie settled for the three shot too often as well. She needs to shoot it enough, and well enough, for teams to have to guard her out there, but 2 (or 3 at most) a game should be her max.

But you do need some bench help. Was O'Hea injured? I always think she is better than what she showed last year. Tak is an interesting backup for Stewie but essentially has no defense. KML can be effective if left wide open, which some teams continue to do. Anybody know what is up with Monica Wright? Is she just done? She was a player who looked to have promise before the injury. And they still need some kind of banger inside - if for nothing else to go in and get some fouls. I don't remember Green as being a banger. (?) And of course a backup PG to give Birdie a rest. No, Loyd is not a PG. Quinn is a sweetheart, but a marginal, at best, PG.

JMO, of course, no insider information.



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canadaball



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PostPosted: 02/19/17 1:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nerd2 wrote:
canadaball wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
There's still a disconnect somewhere in how a team can start three All-WNBA players, Clark who we all basically love as a role player, and a former all-star who hasn't dropped off that much in Langhorne, and still finish under .500. Something there wasn't as good as people perceived it to be last season. A crappy bench can only hurt you so much.


Ever since the memorable (?disgraceful) 2015 tank, I have watched Seattle closely, and am quite happy that despite 3 All Stars, the team sucks. The management is good at losing games to get the most lottery balls; not so good at putting together a winning team. Last year's team had 3 major weaknesses: (1) lack of athleticism (especially Clarke and Langhorne) which led to poor rebounding and defense; (2) No effective guards past Bird and Loyd; (3) the worst bench in league characterized by a bunch of players with no speed who cannot jump. Seattle desperately needs blue collar players who will do the dirty work. The Clarke story is wonderful, but she does not have the skill set to play 25-30 minutes at the 3 (with no one behind her to boot). Clarke works so hard, and plays smart but she is way overmatched against the better small forwards. This smart, hustling kid just does not jump.
Carolyn Swords seems like a good pickup to give the team more size in the paint, but when u need major minutes from Clarke, Quinn (would not be on any other roster) and KML (aka "Stumpy") the team is destined for mediocrity despite the presence of 3 of the top 20 players in the league.
Do not forget that last year's team was 100% healthy all year (when so many opponents were devastated by injury), yet still finished below .500. Given the ticking clock on Bird, (at 35 she had best year ever, but who knows about 36?) it is far more likely this team is on the way down, rather than becoming a title contender.


I did not find what they did to be disgraceful. They needed to get rid of Camille Little and Tanisha Wright, two players who were nasty as heck to a good portion of the fans and unwilling to do what it took to bring along younger players. And I will say it again: Sue Bird would have been G-O-N-E if it hadn't been for what they did in 2015. Storm were old. They needed to get young. That was a painful process.

The team decided to rebuild. They said it would take three years. They played all their players the vast majority of the season and only sat the starters the last couple of games after they had been eliminated. You consider that "tanking" but I don't. Certainly not the Lynx who basically had Maya not even make the trip for their last game. And not the Stars who had Moriah AND Kayla AND DRob all sitting that last game.

There were twelve teams. 3 of them finished above .500. And one who did blew it in their first playoff game against the lowest seed. Phoenix was ALSO 100% healthy, had the people back from its 2014 title run and actually ended up worse than the Storm.


There are several inaccuracies here. Little, and, especially, Tanisha Wright are just the type players that the current roster needs to be title contenders. In 2015, Seattle most certainly did not just sit "the starters the last couple of games". Sue Bird, in particular was held out of the final 6 games (the box score kept listing the reason as "rest"). I wondered what they would do for the last game (hard to rest for the off season), but they did switch to "coach's decision". Do not compare resting a star like Maya at the end of regular season when playoff position is clinched to the Storm shenanigans. In the case of SA, you are way off base. Jefferson was not on team in 2015. McBride and DRob had legitimate injuries; in fact, in that last game SA was down 9 at the half; in perfect position to get the pole position for Stewie. For some unknown reason, lame duck coach Hughes chose to play his starters the entire 3rd quarter while Seattle, true to their total tank philosophy, only used their bottom 5 players.
I neglected to list another Storm weakness. The team lacks any real muscle, and might be softest roster in league. No bangers here.


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PostPosted: 02/19/17 2:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

canadaball wrote:

There are several inaccuracies here. Little, and, especially, Tanisha Wright are just the type players that the current roster needs to be title contenders. In 2015, Seattle most certainly did not just sit "the starters the last couple of games". Sue Bird, in particular was held out of the final 6 games (the box score kept listing the reason as "rest"). I wondered what they would do for the last game (hard to rest for the off season), but they did switch to "coach's decision". Do not compare resting a star like Maya at the end of regular season when playoff position is clinched to the Storm shenanigans. In the case of SA, you are way off base. Jefferson was not on team in 2015. McBride and DRob had legitimate injuries; in fact, in that last game SA was down 9 at the half; in perfect position to get the pole position for Stewie. For some unknown reason, lame duck coach Hughes chose to play his starters the entire 3rd quarter while Seattle, true to their total tank philosophy, only used their bottom 5 players.
I neglected to list another Storm weakness. The team lacks any real muscle, and might be softest roster in league. No bangers here.


You're right that MoJeff was not yet on SA. And as for Sue resting, she had an injury she'd been playing with and there had been games earlier in the month that she missed. So they finally shut her down, just like San Antonio shut down KMac even though they admitted she could have played. But to attach the term "tank" to the entire season because of a string of games near the end is inaccurate.


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PostPosted: 02/19/17 2:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Re: Camille and Tanisha...I didn't consider them unapproachable and I hadn't heard anything like that from the other fans I know. We must be part of a different portion of fans. Camille seemed like one of the fan favorites. I had mixed feelings when she was traded, but I understood it as a business move. I was under the impression that she didn't want to leave the Storm.

Maybe it was mostly Jayda Evans trying to make something out of nothing, but I thought Tanisha was leaning towards retirement prior to signing as a free agent with NY. Obviously, no surprise at all that she picked NY. We all know that she took her fair share of criticisms from Storm fans while in Seattle, and she always seemed to play with a chip on her shoulder. If some fans found her to be unapproachable, I can see it. It wasn't my experience, but I can see it.

myrtle wrote:
Langhorne is undersized to play the 5 and doesn't have the skill to play the 4. They have tried to remedy it with Swords. Swords can't guard quickness but Lang can and Lang can't guard size ...so the addition should help if they are used in the right circumstances, but neither of them - nor Stewie - can guard bruisers so that will remain a problem.

I don't think Clark is the problem. Yeah, she's not as good as Maya or Angel, but who is? You can't have an allstar at every position and she fulfills her role much better than most role players. I actually think they underutilize her offense. Of the three shooters, she had the least attempts but second best (behind Birdie) percentage. At 39% she is way better than Stewie (34%) or Loyd (30%) (and BTW, better than KML, the designated 3 shooter, as well). Why have Loyd hoisting all those threes? Use her for what she is good at - slashing and mid-range jumpers. So... it seems to me they need to better utilize what they have, including the allstars. For that matter, I thought Stewie settled for the three shot too often as well. She needs to shoot it enough, and well enough, for teams to have to guard her out there, but 2 (or 3 at most) a game should be her max.

But you do need some bench help. Was O'Hea injured? I always think she is better than what she showed last year. Tak is an interesting backup for Stewie but essentially has no defense. KML can be effective if left wide open, which some teams continue to do. Anybody know what is up with Monica Wright? Is she just done? She was a player who looked to have promise before the injury. And they still need some kind of banger inside - if for nothing else to go in and get some fouls. I don't remember Green as being a banger. (?) And of course a backup PG to give Birdie a rest. No, Loyd is not a PG. Quinn is a sweetheart, but a marginal, at best, PG.

JMO, of course, no insider information.


Good analysis. Agree about Clark. We'll see what Swords brings to the team. Tak has a lot of potential, but last season I thought she struggled connecting with teammates and playing in the team's system on both sides of the ball.

O'Hea is rehabbing an injury. I don't know what, and I don't know when she sustained the injury, but she has stayed in Seattle during the offseason to rehab. Her rehab is reportedly going well. If she comes back healthy, KML will struggle to find minutes.


canadaball



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PostPosted: 02/19/17 6:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nerd2 wrote:
canadaball wrote:

There are several inaccuracies here. Little, and, especially, Tanisha Wright are just the type players that the current roster needs to be title contenders. In 2015, Seattle most certainly did not just sit "the starters the last couple of games". Sue Bird, in particular was held out of the final 6 games (the box score kept listing the reason as "rest"). I wondered what they would do for the last game (hard to rest for the off season), but they did switch to "coach's decision". Do not compare resting a star like Maya at the end of regular season when playoff position is clinched to the Storm shenanigans. In the case of SA, you are way off base. Jefferson was not on team in 2015. McBride and DRob had legitimate injuries; in fact, in that last game SA was down 9 at the half; in perfect position to get the pole position for Stewie. For some unknown reason, lame duck coach Hughes chose to play his starters the entire 3rd quarter while Seattle, true to their total tank philosophy, only used their bottom 5 players.
I neglected to list another Storm weakness. The team lacks any real muscle, and might be softest roster in league. No bangers here.


You're right that MoJeff was not yet on SA. And as for Sue resting, she had an injury she'd been playing with and there had been games earlier in the month that she missed. So they finally shut her down, just like San Antonio shut down KMac even though they admitted she could have played. But to attach the term "tank" to the entire season because of a string of games near the end is inaccurate.


This discussion is resurrecting the reasons I so despise Seattle. The Storm did plenty to tank the 2015 season. For starters, they unloaded 3 of their top 6 players in preseason. My guess is the braintrust thought that would be enough to ensure losses required to get the most lottery balls. The notion that they ever contemplated the playoffs was laughable. As luck would have it, LA played w/o Parker for the first half of the season and also suffered other injuries. Seattle won several (unexpected) games from the Sparks; in addition, SA was hurt badly by injuries. Seattle must have been in panic mode that their tanking plans were in trouble, so they made a most unusual trade unloading Montgomery (who became, and still is, a valuable player for the Lynx championship team) in return for Monica Wright. Never, in the history of professional sports, has a team traded for a player the same day that player was undergoing major knee surgery. The Storm must have been petrified the erratic, but talented, Montgomery might get them some more wins.


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PostPosted: 02/19/17 6:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

All the moves they were making were for long term benefit (at the expense of immediate success). I don't see why that's such a problem. It's really the smart thing to do if a team feels that the current path can't lead to the required level of success.
It seems a weird thing to despise a team for. I respect them for it.



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PostPosted: 02/19/17 7:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If the Storm were tanking so badly why the hell did they won from the Lynx in the 2nd to last game? If would have been so much easier to just lose against the Lynx because that wouldnt look that bad.
Yes most of the Lynx starters didnt play but they still had Fowles, Brunson and the o so talented Renee Montgomery Rolling Eyes



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PostPosted: 02/19/17 7:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Michelle89 wrote:
If the Storm were tanking so badly why the hell did they won from the Lynx in the 2nd to last game? If would have been so much easier to just lose against the Lynx because that wouldnt look that bad.
Yes most of the Lynx starters didnt play but they still had Fowles, Brunson and the o so talented Renee Montgomery Rolling Eyes


Another reason I despise Seattle. Down the "stretch" in the battle for worst record, given the SA # of wins, the game vs Minny did not matter. In order to finish with the worst 2 year record, Seattle knew they had to lose to SA in that last game. They could afford to play hard (using the starters) in front of the home fans against a Lynx team going thru the motions with lots of bench players b/c a victory over the Lynx meant nothing in the battle for worst.


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PostPosted: 02/19/17 10:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

canadaball wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:
If the Storm were tanking so badly why the hell did they won from the Lynx in the 2nd to last game? If would have been so much easier to just lose against the Lynx because that wouldnt look that bad.
Yes most of the Lynx starters didnt play but they still had Fowles, Brunson and the o so talented Renee Montgomery Rolling Eyes


Another reason I despise Seattle. Down the "stretch" in the battle for worst record, given the SA # of wins, the game vs Minny did not matter. In order to finish with the worst 2 year record, Seattle knew they had to lose to SA in that last game. They could afford to play hard (using the starters) in front of the home fans against a Lynx team going thru the motions with lots of bench players b/c a victory over the Lynx meant nothing in the battle for worst.


So they played to win and you hated them for it. Did it ever occur to you that San Antonio might have been tanking more than you think Seattle was? Because before that last win they'd lost 10 in a row including a very suspicious one against Connecticut where Jayne Appel simply stood there while Kelsey Bone drove in for the winning bucket.


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PostPosted: 02/19/17 10:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
All the moves they were making were for long term benefit (at the expense of immediate success). I don't see why that's such a problem. It's really the smart thing to do if a team feels that the current path can't lead to the required level of success.
It seems a weird thing to despise a team for. I respect them for it.


Exactly. I talked to Steph White later in the year and she didn't have the slightest problem with it. The only starter that missed any time was Sue and there was an injury involved. The rest of the time, everyone played and tried to win. The team was just bad. They wouldn't be the first team who had sat an older player once the season was lost.


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PostPosted: 02/19/17 10:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

canadaball wrote:
Nerd2 wrote:
canadaball wrote:

There are several inaccuracies here. Little, and, especially, Tanisha Wright are just the type players that the current roster needs to be title contenders. In 2015, Seattle most certainly did not just sit "the starters the last couple of games". Sue Bird, in particular was held out of the final 6 games (the box score kept listing the reason as "rest"). I wondered what they would do for the last game (hard to rest for the off season), but they did switch to "coach's decision". Do not compare resting a star like Maya at the end of regular season when playoff position is clinched to the Storm shenanigans. In the case of SA, you are way off base. Jefferson was not on team in 2015. McBride and DRob had legitimate injuries; in fact, in that last game SA was down 9 at the half; in perfect position to get the pole position for Stewie. For some unknown reason, lame duck coach Hughes chose to play his starters the entire 3rd quarter while Seattle, true to their total tank philosophy, only used their bottom 5 players.
I neglected to list another Storm weakness. The team lacks any real muscle, and might be softest roster in league. No bangers here.


You're right that MoJeff was not yet on SA. And as for Sue resting, she had an injury she'd been playing with and there had been games earlier in the month that she missed. So they finally shut her down, just like San Antonio shut down KMac even though they admitted she could have played. But to attach the term "tank" to the entire season because of a string of games near the end is inaccurate.


This discussion is resurrecting the reasons I so despise Seattle. The Storm did plenty to tank the 2015 season. For starters, they unloaded 3 of their top 6 players in preseason. My guess is the braintrust thought that would be enough to ensure losses required to get the most lottery balls. The notion that they ever contemplated the playoffs was laughable. As luck would have it, LA played w/o Parker for the first half of the season and also suffered other injuries. Seattle won several (unexpected) games from the Sparks; in addition, SA was hurt badly by injuries. Seattle must have been in panic mode that their tanking plans were in trouble, so they made a most unusual trade unloading Montgomery (who became, and still is, a valuable player for the Lynx championship team) in return for Monica Wright. Never, in the history of professional sports, has a team traded for a player the same day that player was undergoing major knee surgery. The Storm must have been petrified the erratic, but talented, Montgomery might get them some more wins.


And yet you still keep forking over your season ticket money. Why do that if you think the team is going so badly off the rails?


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PostPosted: 02/19/17 11:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

canadaball wrote:
Nerd2 wrote:
canadaball wrote:

There are several inaccuracies here. Little, and, especially, Tanisha Wright are just the type players that the current roster needs to be title contenders. In 2015, Seattle most certainly did not just sit "the starters the last couple of games". Sue Bird, in particular was held out of the final 6 games (the box score kept listing the reason as "rest"). I wondered what they would do for the last game (hard to rest for the off season), but they did switch to "coach's decision". Do not compare resting a star like Maya at the end of regular season when playoff position is clinched to the Storm shenanigans. In the case of SA, you are way off base. Jefferson was not on team in 2015. McBride and DRob had legitimate injuries; in fact, in that last game SA was down 9 at the half; in perfect position to get the pole position for Stewie. For some unknown reason, lame duck coach Hughes chose to play his starters the entire 3rd quarter while Seattle, true to their total tank philosophy, only used their bottom 5 players.
I neglected to list another Storm weakness. The team lacks any real muscle, and might be softest roster in league. No bangers here.


You're right that MoJeff was not yet on SA. And as for Sue resting, she had an injury she'd been playing with and there had been games earlier in the month that she missed. So they finally shut her down, just like San Antonio shut down KMac even though they admitted she could have played. But to attach the term "tank" to the entire season because of a string of games near the end is inaccurate.


This discussion is resurrecting the reasons I so despise Seattle. The Storm did plenty to tank the 2015 season. For starters, they unloaded 3 of their top 6 players in preseason. My guess is the braintrust thought that would be enough to ensure losses required to get the most lottery balls. The notion that they ever contemplated the playoffs was laughable. As luck would have it, LA played w/o Parker for the first half of the season and also suffered other injuries. Seattle won several (unexpected) games from the Sparks; in addition, SA was hurt badly by injuries. Seattle must have been in panic mode that their tanking plans were in trouble, so they made a most unusual trade unloading Montgomery (who became, and still is, a valuable player for the Lynx championship team) in return for Monica Wright. Never, in the history of professional sports, has a team traded for a player the same day that player was undergoing major knee surgery. The Storm must have been petrified the erratic, but talented, Montgomery might get them some more wins.


Well, calling Stricklen one of the 6 best is a stretch. Tanisha left of her own choice and they were pretty sure Camille was going to ask to be traded once Agler left. In fact, the word I got was that Sue was going to leave which was the real reason they were getting Monty: to replace her. But then Jenny came in and Sue decided to stay for a year. That's why she signed a one-year contract. So all your nefarious plotting seems to assume that the team was broken up without their consent. That's not quite how it went.


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PostPosted: 02/20/17 9:34 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nerd2 wrote:
canadaball wrote:
Nerd2 wrote:
canadaball wrote:

There are several inaccuracies here. Little, and, especially, Tanisha Wright are just the type players that the current roster needs to be title contenders. In 2015, Seattle most certainly did not just sit "the starters the last couple of games". Sue Bird, in particular was held out of the final 6 games (the box score kept listing the reason as "rest"). I wondered what they would do for the last game (hard to rest for the off season), but they did switch to "coach's decision". Do not compare resting a star like Maya at the end of regular season when playoff position is clinched to the Storm shenanigans. In the case of SA, you are way off base. Jefferson was not on team in 2015. McBride and DRob had legitimate injuries; in fact, in that last game SA was down 9 at the half; in perfect position to get the pole position for Stewie. For some unknown reason, lame duck coach Hughes chose to play his starters the entire 3rd quarter while Seattle, true to their total tank philosophy, only used their bottom 5 players.
I neglected to list another Storm weakness. The team lacks any real muscle, and might be softest roster in league. No bangers here.


You're right that MoJeff was not yet on SA. And as for Sue resting, she had an injury she'd been playing with and there had been games earlier in the month that she missed. So they finally shut her down, just like San Antonio shut down KMac even though they admitted she could have played. But to attach the term "tank" to the entire season because of a string of games near the end is inaccurate.


This discussion is resurrecting the reasons I so despise Seattle. The Storm did plenty to tank the 2015 season. For starters, they unloaded 3 of their top 6 players in preseason. My guess is the braintrust thought that would be enough to ensure losses required to get the most lottery balls. The notion that they ever contemplated the playoffs was laughable. As luck would have it, LA played w/o Parker for the first half of the season and also suffered other injuries. Seattle won several (unexpected) games from the Sparks; in addition, SA was hurt badly by injuries. Seattle must have been in panic mode that their tanking plans were in trouble, so they made a most unusual trade unloading Montgomery (who became, and still is, a valuable player for the Lynx championship team) in return for Monica Wright. Never, in the history of professional sports, has a team traded for a player the same day that player was undergoing major knee surgery. The Storm must have been petrified the erratic, but talented, Montgomery might get them some more wins.


Well, calling Stricklen one of the 6 best is a stretch. Tanisha left of her own choice and they were pretty sure Camille was going to ask to be traded once Agler left. In fact, the word I got was that Sue was going to leave which was the real reason they were getting Monty: to replace her. But then Jenny came in and Sue decided to stay for a year. That's why she signed a one-year contract. So all your nefarious plotting seems to assume that the team was broken up without their consent. That's not quite how it went.


Camille was very pubically pissed Seattle traded her. She didn't want to leave. I also doubt Sue was ever going to leave Seattle. She's gushed about how much she loves Seattle since she's been drafted. All the moves the Storm did in 2015 was clearly to tank for Stewart. Sure the Storm got a great player in Stewart, but their roster is still a mess and they still threw away a much superior coach in Agler for Boucek who will never get the Storm very far. LA with Agler won a championship and will probably win this year and probably another within the next several years. Seattle with Boucek will become an annual playoff team that will never win another championship and never get anymore great lottery picks to help them out. Players want to play for Agler, no one will clamor to Seattle to play for Boucek.


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PostPosted: 02/20/17 12:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Also, Langhorne at center will get them killed inside. Was very surprised they resigned her.



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canadaball



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PostPosted: 02/20/17 1:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It's worthwhile to note that Seattle has had 4 pieces of good luck just to get to this current (in my mind, non-contending) roster. (1) Remember that when they set out on their "three year plan" in the 2015 preseason, Jule Loyd was the backup in case of lottery failure to get Stew (KML was going to be their #1 pick). It was a miracle that Loyd came out early. (2) Winning the Stewie lottery was only a 44% chance. (3) Every 35+ year old I have ever seen in the W may still be a contributor, but there is a definite fall off from younger days. It is a miracle that the 2015 Bird seems the same as her best years. (4) Defying statistical probabilities, Seattle has now been injury free for 2 straight years


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PostPosted: 02/20/17 2:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Also, Langhorne at center will get them killed inside. Was very surprised they resigned her.


Me, too. I hope that it was a hedge in case Swords can't play major minutes all the time.


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PostPosted: 02/20/17 2:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

canadaball wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:
If the Storm were tanking so badly why the hell did they won from the Lynx in the 2nd to last game? If would have been so much easier to just lose against the Lynx because that wouldnt look that bad.
Yes most of the Lynx starters didnt play but they still had Fowles, Brunson and the o so talented Renee Montgomery Rolling Eyes


Another reason I despise Seattle. Down the "stretch" in the battle for worst record, given the SA # of wins, the game vs Minny did not matter. In order to finish with the worst 2 year record, Seattle knew they had to lose to SA in that last game. They could afford to play hard (using the starters) in front of the home fans against a Lynx team going thru the motions with lots of bench players b/c a victory over the Lynx meant nothing in the battle for worst.


Seattle won the previous games against the Stars



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PostPosted: 02/20/17 2:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ay Mate wrote:
Nerd2 wrote:
canadaball wrote:
Nerd2 wrote:
canadaball wrote:

There are several inaccuracies here. Little, and, especially, Tanisha Wright are just the type players that the current roster needs to be title contenders. In 2015, Seattle most certainly did not just sit "the starters the last couple of games". Sue Bird, in particular was held out of the final 6 games (the box score kept listing the reason as "rest"). I wondered what they would do for the last game (hard to rest for the off season), but they did switch to "coach's decision". Do not compare resting a star like Maya at the end of regular season when playoff position is clinched to the Storm shenanigans. In the case of SA, you are way off base. Jefferson was not on team in 2015. McBride and DRob had legitimate injuries; in fact, in that last game SA was down 9 at the half; in perfect position to get the pole position for Stewie. For some unknown reason, lame duck coach Hughes chose to play his starters the entire 3rd quarter while Seattle, true to their total tank philosophy, only used their bottom 5 players.
I neglected to list another Storm weakness. The team lacks any real muscle, and might be softest roster in league. No bangers here.


You're right that MoJeff was not yet on SA. And as for Sue resting, she had an injury she'd been playing with and there had been games earlier in the month that she missed. So they finally shut her down, just like San Antonio shut down KMac even though they admitted she could have played. But to attach the term "tank" to the entire season because of a string of games near the end is inaccurate.


This discussion is resurrecting the reasons I so despise Seattle. The Storm did plenty to tank the 2015 season. For starters, they unloaded 3 of their top 6 players in preseason. My guess is the braintrust thought that would be enough to ensure losses required to get the most lottery balls. The notion that they ever contemplated the playoffs was laughable. As luck would have it, LA played w/o Parker for the first half of the season and also suffered other injuries. Seattle won several (unexpected) games from the Sparks; in addition, SA was hurt badly by injuries. Seattle must have been in panic mode that their tanking plans were in trouble, so they made a most unusual trade unloading Montgomery (who became, and still is, a valuable player for the Lynx championship team) in return for Monica Wright. Never, in the history of professional sports, has a team traded for a player the same day that player was undergoing major knee surgery. The Storm must have been petrified the erratic, but talented, Montgomery might get them some more wins.


Well, calling Stricklen one of the 6 best is a stretch. Tanisha left of her own choice and they were pretty sure Camille was going to ask to be traded once Agler left. In fact, the word I got was that Sue was going to leave which was the real reason they were getting Monty: to replace her. But then Jenny came in and Sue decided to stay for a year. That's why she signed a one-year contract. So all your nefarious plotting seems to assume that the team was broken up without their consent. That's not quite how it went.


Camille was very pubically pissed Seattle traded her. She didn't want to leave. I also doubt Sue was ever going to leave Seattle. She's gushed about how much she loves Seattle since she's been drafted. All the moves the Storm did in 2015 was clearly to tank for Stewart. Sure the Storm got a great player in Stewart, but their roster is still a mess and they still threw away a much superior coach in Agler for Boucek who will never get the Storm very far. LA with Agler won a championship and will probably win this year and probably another within the next several years. Seattle with Boucek will become an annual playoff team that will never win another championship and never get anymore great lottery picks to help them out. Players want to play for Agler, no one will clamor to Seattle to play for Boucek.


And this is where I lean back and say "if you don't believe my sources, I can't help you buddy."


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PostPosted: 03/07/17 2:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Now see,this is what i'm talking about.....players taking their conditioning seriously.Gotta change my 2017 prediction for seattle.They just might win 20 games.

Great job by Kaleena Mosqueda-Lewis ....





I wish the wnba had a offseason strength & conditioning program.


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PostPosted: 03/07/17 4:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I have to say that KML wearing the shirt under her jersey doesnt help..



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PostPosted: 03/07/17 5:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Michelle89 wrote:
I have to say that KML wearing the shirt under her jersey doesnt help..


But she's been rocking the undershirt. I see a noticeable improvement. She looks great.



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PostPosted: 03/07/17 5:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

hangtyme24 wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:
I have to say that KML wearing the shirt under her jersey doesnt help..


But she's been rocking the undershirt. I see a noticeable improvement. She looks great.


Yeah i see improvement from last season so thats good for the Storm. But the shirt makes her look wider then she is though. Certainly when you compare the 2 pictures



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PostPosted: 03/07/17 6:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

hangtyme24 wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:
I have to say that KML wearing the shirt under her jersey doesnt help..


But she's been rocking the undershirt. I see a noticeable improvement. She looks great.


agree. Really amazing job. Now can she impart some of that knowledge to Shoni?



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PostPosted: 03/08/17 10:34 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It doesn't seem like Wright or Bishop will be back with the Storm as they're not re-signed. Thoughts on who else they might bring in? Storm currently look like:

PG: Bird/O'Neill
SG: Loyd/Mosqueda-Lewis/Quinn
SF: Clark/O'Hea/Whitcomb
PF: Stewart/Tokashiki
C: Langhorne/Swords



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PostPosted: 03/08/17 3:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think Sami will compete with KLM for minutes at the backup SG position. Dont think she has the height to play or strength to guard SF's



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PostPosted: 03/08/17 6:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Yeah, no way is she anything other than a guard. Even the thought of her playing the 2-guard spot in the WNBA had me looking around at her likely matchups to make sure she wouldn't be too small.
Seattle still need some extra depth in the front court.



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PostPosted: 03/08/17 8:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I thought Whitcomb might need to show she can run minutes at point guard to have a chance of making the roster/being a rotation player.

Sami is good in the pick n roll which suits the flow offense.



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