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Shades



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PostPosted: 07/31/17 1:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:

Plum to Seattle for Clark and Swords.


Angus, just say no to this ish. Go all in on the 2018 draft. If you trade Plum or Jefferson, make it for a first round pick. If the Wings can do well with 5 picks in the 2017 draft, imagine how well SAN will do with 5 picks in the 2018 draft? SAN already have 4 picks, and they'll be slightly higher than what DAL had.

myrtle wrote:

MoJeff to WAS for Meesseman


Meesseman is his pride and joy. Can't see it happening.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 07/31/17 1:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Brain lock on Currie, my apologies ...

I'm not saying you need five superstars to play well, or even five stars. But the San Antonio roster at present has no stars (unless you buy into McBride as underachieving), and even A'ja Wilson is at best one star -- and that's only if SA wins the lottery. And Wilson doesn't appear to be a player who will immediately be all-WNBA.

Jefferson really isn't that far off the 'star' status you're looking for. The shooting numbers are excellent, and she's quick and can create when given the chance (god, VJ's offense has been awful). The volume needs to go up, especially on a team with such limited alternatives, and health has been an issue this season, but she's definitely a possible 'star'.

Probably more than McBride, to be honest.



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 07/31/17 2:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
ClayK wrote:
Brain lock on Currie, my apologies ...

I'm not saying you need five superstars to play well, or even five stars. But the San Antonio roster at present has no stars (unless you buy into McBride as underachieving), and even A'ja Wilson is at best one star -- and that's only if SA wins the lottery. And Wilson doesn't appear to be a player who will immediately be all-WNBA.

Jefferson really isn't that far off the 'star' status you're looking for. The shooting numbers are excellent, and she's quick and can create when given the chance (god, VJ's offense has been awful). The volume needs to go up, especially on a team with such limited alternatives, and health has been an issue this season, but she's definitely a possible 'star'.

Probably more than McBride, to be honest.


I agree ... she's just tiny, that's all, and has to be paired with a big guard for maximum effectiveness.



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PostPosted: 07/31/17 2:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
myrtle wrote:

Plum to Seattle for Clark and Swords.


Angus, just say no to this ish. Go all in on the 2018 draft. If you trade Plum or Jefferson, make it for a first round pick. If the Wings can do well with 5 picks in the 2017 draft, imagine how well SAN will do with 5 picks in the 2018 draft? SAN already have 4 picks, and they'll be slightly higher than what DAL had.

myrtle wrote:

MoJeff to WAS for Meesseman


Meesseman is his pride and joy. Can't see it happening.



Knowing VJ and Ruth thye will find a way to screw it up .



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RP



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PostPosted: 07/31/17 2:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

In a 12-team league, it's difficult to win without a top-10ish player. San Antonio has no one close to that (yet anyway), but insert A'ja Wilson and now options 2 through 5 look far better.


WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 07/31/17 2:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

RP wrote:
In a 12-team league, it's difficult to win without a top-10ish player. San Antonio has no one close to that (yet anyway), but insert A'ja Wilson and now options 2 through 5 look far better.


Even with Aja i still have a hard time seeing this team make the playoffs. Drafting aja will be there 1st step in the right direction if the chips fall that way. Trading either Mo Jeff / Plum Or Mcbride for a top 10 player would be the next option.



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 07/31/17 3:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

With the Sun doing so well without C. Ogwumike I wonder if there is a deal there?

Jefferson and #13 for Ogwumike?

McBride and #13 for Ogwumike?

Plum, #13 and Harrison for Ogwumike?

Then if SA ended up with the #2 pick you could have something like

Plum, McBride, Deshields or G. Williams, C. Ogwumike, Harrison

or

Jefferson, Plum, Deshields or G. Williams, Ogwumike, Harrison

or if they get #1

Jefferson, McBride, ?, Wilson, Ogwumike

big risk with Chiney's injuries but could be a fast track to greater success.


pilight



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PostPosted: 07/31/17 3:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Better hurry. The trade deadline is 8:00 Eastern tonight.



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dtsnms



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PostPosted: 07/31/17 3:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
With the Sun doing so well without C. Ogwumike I wonder if there is a deal there?

Jefferson and #13 for Ogwumike?

McBride and #13 for Ogwumike?

Plum, #13 and Harrison for Ogwumike?

Then if SA ended up with the #2 pick you could have something like

Plum, McBride, Deshields or G. Williams, C. Ogwumike, Harrison

or

Jefferson, Plum, Deshields or G. Williams, Ogwumike, Harrison

or if they get #1

Jefferson, McBride, ?, Wilson, Ogwumike

big risk with Chiney's injuries but could be a fast track to greater success.


No, there isn't


Randy



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PostPosted: 07/31/17 3:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Is "No there isn't" referring to "Is there a deal" or to " big risk w Chiney's injury history"?

I'm guessing the former.


dtsnms



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PostPosted: 07/31/17 3:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Is "No there isn't" referring to "Is there a deal" or to " big risk w Chiney's injury history"?

I'm guessing the former.


Right.


J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 07/31/17 3:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Is "No there isn't" referring to "Is there a deal" or to " big risk w Chiney's injury history"?

I'm guessing the former.


I'm sure it means no way is Conn trading C. Ogwumike.


CamrnCrz1974



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PostPosted: 07/31/17 3:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
Jefferson really isn't that far off the 'star' status you're looking for. The shooting numbers are excellent, and she's quick and can create when given the chance (god, VJ's offense has been awful). The volume needs to go up, especially on a team with such limited alternatives, and health has been an issue this season, but she's definitely a possible 'star'.

Probably more than McBride, to be honest.


I agree ... she's just tiny, that's all, and has to be paired with a big guard for maximum effectiveness.


The shooting with Moriah is very good - 51.8 percent from the floor, 45 percent from three this year. The main issue is that she needs to be able to take more threes at that percentage (averaging just over one attempt per game). In fact, she should be shooting more, especially given the shooting percentages of her teammates (discussed below).

Her A/TO is very good (2.20), and she is averaging 4.6 assists per game on a team where only one of her five best teammates (by shooting percentage) shoots better than 43.2 percent per game.

By the eye test, her on ball defense is very good, given her athleticism, quick hands, and speed.

But yes, she needs help. Harrison is a nice post and has been a solid scorer this year, but she is a tad undersized at 6-3 and needs to rebound more (5.9 rpg).

McBride clearly can shoot (her 91% from the line shows as much). But, to me, it seems she takes a lot of contested and off balance shots. Coach Johnson needs to run more sets to take advantage of her shooting ability. Run some high pick and rolls and have McBride slip to the corner for an open three. Run some low screens and have McBride cut for an easy layup.

Also, it does not seem that Johnson plays Jefferson, McBride, and Plum together. Hardly at all, in fact. Plum came in as a playmaker and scorer in college. The lineup would (obviously) be small, but I cannot see why a team that is 3-20 and going nowhere this year (or next year, for that matter) would not just throw the franchise's biggest names and best scorers/playmakers onto the floor at the same time...while running at lot of pick-and-roll plays and screen-and-cuts.


WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 07/31/17 4:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Trading Chiney for any of the SAN stars assests would make absolutely no sense. There guard rotation is young and talented. Why bring in someone behind Jas thomas when she finally has a breakout season ? *Mo Jeff Or Plum* Mcbride would just be Alex Bentley 2.0 a bunch of bricks for her 1 woman tower.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 07/31/17 5:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
With the Sun doing so well without C. Ogwumike, I wonder if there is a deal there?


I think these three forwards can play at the same time. Too much is being made about "moving Thomas to the 4". Blah, blah, blah. As long as I remember she's played as a point forward, so nothing new or groundbreaking is happening here. If anything, they'll be improved next year now that they've established Jones as the definite center.

But if they do want to trade Chiney, how about trading her to the Sparks to play with her sister. Remember Chiney is in charge (she voluntarily suspended herself for the good of the team. Danielle Adams has meant a lot to the team), so Chiney would have to be amenable to any trades. I'm pretty sure she wouldn't be amenable to a trade to SAN, but to LAS you better believe it. I think ESPN even has a studio out there.

Miller likes three point shooters and also loves Big Ten players, so how about Wiese and Lavender for Chiney trade? With Lavender, you get a player ALREADY CONDITIONED TO COME OFF THE BENCH, so there'd be no pouting about who gets to start. Miller also coached Lavender in 2015, so he should know her value. Miller probably got to scout Wiese when he went to the Pac-12 tournament. Chiney may have been (yes, Chiney accompanied him) in charge of handerchief duty as Miller drooled all over Wiese. Sydney has shown WNBA three point worthiness, but predictably Agler has no playing time for her in his championship contending roster.

This is the fairest and most realistic trade (something that could actually happen) involving Chiney that I can remember. I believe the transition would be smooth, although I'd feel bad for Lavender if she didn't want to leave Los Angeles, but c'est la vie. It might hurt the Sparks this year depending on how much you believe they need Lavender to contend for a championship this year. It seems they haven't leaned on Lavender as much this season. Will Jackson-Jones and Gruda be able to fill that void. I would think so, but maybe that would be a sticking point to this deal. But how many opportunities would you get to add another Ogwumike sister to the roster? Might be worth any nominal risk.

OR.... just use this as a trade idea for the new season instead of deadline trade.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 07/31/17 6:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The Ogwumikes are from Texas, so San Antonio would be relatively close to home.



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PostPosted: 07/31/17 6:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
The Ogwumikes are from Texas, so San Antonio would be relatively close to home.


It would actually be the closest they could get to home since the defunct comets are no more. But tbh i actually like the ogwumike for lavender trade although she is kind of Nneka 2.0 . LA would already have the better version. Jantel brings a dimension LA cannot replace. A post who shoots a high percentage off the pick and pop. She spreads the offense and knocks down her opportunities when given. Ill give chiney the rebounding nod but not by much. I believe Jantel for Chiney would have.to.involve more assets especially coming of back to back injuries. #Liabilty



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 08/01/17 9:56 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I can't imagine trading Chiney Ogwumike for anything less than a guaranteed all-WNBA level player.

Granted, Chiney has been hurt, but she has the potential to be as good as her sister (not saying she will be, but there's a chance) and unless the player you get back in a trade has the potential to be that good, making any kind of a deal is simply dumb. (Of course, if Connecticut knows Chiney's injuries will limit her effectiveness for the rest of her career, different scenario ...)

There just aren't many players with her size, skill and athleticism, and a two-for-one deal without an all-WNBA player in return won't get it done either. Two good players do not equal one great player at this level ...



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pilight



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PostPosted: 08/01/17 10:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
I can't imagine trading Chiney Ogwumike for anything less than a guaranteed all-WNBA level player.


Chiney Ogwumike has never been an All-WNBA player. She's going to be 26 next year, near the end of the period where you talk about players in terms of potential, coming off a second major injury and will have played 64 games in four years. You might be overstating her value.



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 08/01/17 11:24 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
ClayK wrote:
I can't imagine trading Chiney Ogwumike for anything less than a guaranteed all-WNBA level player.


Chiney Ogwumike has never been an All-WNBA player. She's going to be 26 next year, near the end of the period where you talk about players in terms of potential, coming off a second major injury and will have played 64 games in four years. You might be overstating her value.


Her present value, yes -- her future value, however, is still to be determined. It well could be that she's always injury-prone and never becomes much more than an ordinary player, but how many players have her ceiling?



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PostPosted: 08/01/17 11:43 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Chiney is a great player and a hard worker but to be honest idk if a team can win a championship with her as there go to player ! Shes more effective crashing the boards and getting putbacks. I feel like Glory For Chiney & Conn's 1st Rounder 2018 could be sufficient if you believe........



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Shades



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PostPosted: 08/01/17 12:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
I feel like Glory For Chiney & Conn's 1st Rounder 2018 could be sufficient if you believe........


I like the idea of Glory on CON position-wise. She wants to move to the perimeter so she could play SF, but chemistry-wise she carries a rep and I can't see CON taking a chance on her.

I thought your proposal was way imbalanced. If not straight up, maybe Glory + 2nd rounder for Chiney.



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PostPosted: 08/01/17 12:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
I feel like Glory For Chiney & Conn's 1st Rounder 2018 could be sufficient if you believe........


I like the idea of Glory on CON position-wise. She wants to move to the perimeter so she could play SF, but chemistry-wise she carries a rep and I can't see CON taking a chance on her.

I thought your proposal was way imbalanced. If not straight up, maybe Glory + 2nd rounder for Chiney.


The injury bug makes her a liability thus the reason for the 1st rounder from CONN not Dallas its Not like Conn's going to get a high pick anyway with how well there doing. Why give our 1st rounder away when we could possibly end up with Aja ? No need for Chiney after all , then Glory could be used to secure another draft pick or skilled post in a trade if plausible .



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PostPosted: 08/01/17 1:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Miller probably got to scout Wiese when he went to the Pac-12 tournament. Chiney may have been (yes, Chiney accompanied him) in charge of handerchief duty as Miller drooled all over Wiese. Sydney has shown WNBA three point worthiness, but predictably Agler has no playing time for her in his championship contending roster.



Except he took Jones instead of Wiese when she was still on the board. I guess he doesn't drool as much as you think.... Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing


Shades



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PostPosted: 08/01/17 2:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

dtsnms wrote:
Shades wrote:
Miller probably got to scout Wiese when he went to the Pac-12 tournament. Chiney may have been (yes, Chiney accompanied him) in charge of handerchief duty as Miller drooled all over Wiese. Sydney has shown WNBA three point worthiness, but predictably Agler has no playing time for her in his championship contending roster.



Except he took Jones instead of Wiese when she was still on the board. I guess he doesn't drool as much as you think...


Well, he needed a post player. If he had Shaqator rated as Top 8, then you know he probably had Jones ranked higher and got good value at #8 . Doesn't mean he didn't notice Wiese then and even more now as a proven three point shooter. If Wiese would have fallen 2 spots, would he have taken her at #13 instead of Shayla Cooper, who he cut in record time? Hard to say, but Wiese is on a tough roster to make.



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