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myt
Joined: 29 Nov 2007
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 Posted: 07/09/16 2:07 pm ::: |
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| Ex-Ref wrote: |
| justintyme wrote: |
| Ex-Ref wrote: |
It's kind of a chicken and egg thing. Which came first, blacks not trusting cops or cops not trusting blacks? That might be simplistic, but that's how I see it.
|
If it truely were a chicken and egg thing that would be one thing. But we know where this cultural, ingrained distrust of the police comes from. We know which one came first. Slavery, Lynchings, Jim Crow, racial prejudice...these have all lead to a reasonable distrust. And since the people of authority are the ones who abused that trust first they are the ones who need to take the lion's share of the responsibility to get it back.
Think of this as a marriage where one of the people were unfaithful. Now the trust is gone. In order to repair that trust the person who initially violated it has to become utterly transparent. No locked phones, no unshared passwords, no secrets at all. Whatever the wronged party demands as necessary must be met. Only then, in time, could trust be restored. Yes, some of these demands are invasive, and perhaps unfair, but that is what it takes.
To restore trust between the black community and the police there is going to need to be unfettered openness and a lot of bending over backwards on the part of the police. Perhaps that even means putting themselves at greater risk in some situations. But that is the priced to be paid for the violation of that trust to begin with. |
If you're going back that far, then it's never going to change. If these feelings have been held on to for that long, there is no interest in changing things, or seeing things made better.
Someone has to stop and say, that's not my generation, that's not my fight. Let's move on from where we are right now. I thought that was the 60's and 70's. Apparently I'm wrong. |
Truly Amazing....
Is this from your generation??????
The extremely incomplete list of unarmed Blacks killed by police
 _________________
| SuziQ wrote: |
| ima say this only once, and I'm never gonna say it again. Parker's damn good. |
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Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 8942
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| Posted: 07/09/16 2:09 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| justintyme wrote: |
| To restore trust between the black community and the police there is going to need to be unfettered openness and a lot of bending over backwards on the part of the police. Perhaps that even means putting themselves at greater risk in some situations. But that is the priced to be paid for the violation of that trust to begin with. |
Where does forgiveness come in?
Last edited by Ex-Ref on 07/09/16 2:29 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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myt
Joined: 29 Nov 2007
Posts: 3923
Location: California
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| Posted: 07/09/16 2:22 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
[quote="Ex-Ref"]
| justintyme wrote: |
| Ex-Ref wrote: |
To restore trust between the black community and the police there is going to need to be unfettered openness and a lot of bending over backwards on the part of the police. Perhaps that even means putting themselves at greater risk in some situations. But that is the priced to be paid for the violation of that trust to begin with. |
Where does forgiveness come in? |
Usually after the admittance of wrong doing and then heartfelt actions that one is sorry and make changes going forward.
Isn't that when/how you are moved to forgive someone?_________________
| SuziQ wrote: |
| ima say this only once, and I'm never gonna say it again. Parker's damn good. |
|
|
jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 21046
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| Posted: 07/09/16 2:22 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| myt wrote: |
| Ex-Ref wrote: |
| justintyme wrote: |
| Ex-Ref wrote: |
It's kind of a chicken and egg thing. Which came first, blacks not trusting cops or cops not trusting blacks? That might be simplistic, but that's how I see it.
|
If it truely were a chicken and egg thing that would be one thing. But we know where this cultural, ingrained distrust of the police comes from. We know which one came first. Slavery, Lynchings, Jim Crow, racial prejudice...these have all lead to a reasonable distrust. And since the people of authority are the ones who abused that trust first they are the ones who need to take the lion's share of the responsibility to get it back.
Think of this as a marriage where one of the people were unfaithful. Now the trust is gone. In order to repair that trust the person who initially violated it has to become utterly transparent. No locked phones, no unshared passwords, no secrets at all. Whatever the wronged party demands as necessary must be met. Only then, in time, could trust be restored. Yes, some of these demands are invasive, and perhaps unfair, but that is what it takes.
To restore trust between the black community and the police there is going to need to be unfettered openness and a lot of bending over backwards on the part of the police. Perhaps that even means putting themselves at greater risk in some situations. But that is the priced to be paid for the violation of that trust to begin with. |
If you're going back that far, then it's never going to change. If these feelings have been held on to for that long, there is no interest in changing things, or seeing things made better.
Someone has to stop and say, that's not my generation, that's not my fight. Let's move on from where we are right now. I thought that was the 60's and 70's. Apparently I'm wrong. |
Truly Amazing....
Is this from your generation??????
The extremely incomplete list of unarmed Blacks killed by police
|
Fifth name down the list. 2015: Sandra Bland (Prairie View, TX). Sandra Bland hung herself in her jail cell. So immediately, whoever created and posted this list on this blog in an attempt to make the point has lost ME, a would be ally and any other would be allies who don't believe that it is fair or true to say that someone hanging themselves in their jail cell, committing suicide, is an example of 'unarmed blacks killed by the police."
Seriously. And an investigation by the Justice Department run a black Attorney General of the United States determined that the Michael Brown shooting was justified. So why is Michael Brown on this list? Yeah he was unarmed and killed by the police but he was shot INSIDE a cop car while trying to take a cop's gun. 
Here's the deal. I'm actually on your side and have been my entire life. lol. And I am telling you what's wrong with your approach to racial justice and change. It's unpleasant to DO and I'm sure an unpleasant thing to read. I'm sure in the process I am violating MANY current pillars and standards of what is or isn't politically correct. I'm sorry about all of it and the hard feelings we all are experiencing in these times. But things have to be said. BLM and many many others in the community of those trying to fight back against the police are using cases like Sandra Bland, which was a bad arrest and a bad detention and one that outraged ME, in lists of examples of cops killing blacks.
SHE KILLED HERSELF! Because it sucked so terribly to go through what she was going through? For sure. No doubt an injustice. But the police didn't kill her and when you include her on the list my eyes glaze over and I start thinking about these other names. How many on that list were, like Michael Brown, fighting with the police after someone had called 911 on them?_________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
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myt
Joined: 29 Nov 2007
Posts: 3923
Location: California
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| Posted: 07/09/16 2:45 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| jammerbirdi wrote: |
| myt wrote: |
| Ex-Ref wrote: |
| justintyme wrote: |
| Ex-Ref wrote: |
It's kind of a chicken and egg thing. Which came first, blacks not trusting cops or cops not trusting blacks? That might be simplistic, but that's how I see it.
|
If it truely were a chicken and egg thing that would be one thing. But we know where this cultural, ingrained distrust of the police comes from. We know which one came first. Slavery, Lynchings, Jim Crow, racial prejudice...these have all lead to a reasonable distrust. And since the people of authority are the ones who abused that trust first they are the ones who need to take the lion's share of the responsibility to get it back.
Think of this as a marriage where one of the people were unfaithful. Now the trust is gone. In order to repair that trust the person who initially violated it has to become utterly transparent. No locked phones, no unshared passwords, no secrets at all. Whatever the wronged party demands as necessary must be met. Only then, in time, could trust be restored. Yes, some of these demands are invasive, and perhaps unfair, but that is what it takes.
To restore trust between the black community and the police there is going to need to be unfettered openness and a lot of bending over backwards on the part of the police. Perhaps that even means putting themselves at greater risk in some situations. But that is the priced to be paid for the violation of that trust to begin with. |
If you're going back that far, then it's never going to change. If these feelings have been held on to for that long, there is no interest in changing things, or seeing things made better.
Someone has to stop and say, that's not my generation, that's not my fight. Let's move on from where we are right now. I thought that was the 60's and 70's. Apparently I'm wrong. |
Truly Amazing....
Is this from your generation??????
The extremely incomplete list of unarmed Blacks killed by police
|
Fifth name down the list. 2015: Sandra Bland (Prairie View, TX). Sandra Bland hung herself in her jail cell. So immediately, whoever created and posted this list on this blog in an attempt to make the point has lost ME, a would be ally and any other would be allies who don't believe that it is fair or true to say that someone hanging themselves in their jail sell, committing suicide, is an example of 'unarmed blacks killed by the police."
Seriously. And an investigation by the Justice Department run a black Attorney General of the United States determined that the Michael Brown shooting was justified. So why is Michael Brown on this list? Yeah he was unarmed and killed by the police but he was shot INSIDE a cop car while trying to take a cop's gun.
Here's the deal. I'm actually on your side and have been my entire life. lol. And I am telling you what's wrong with your approach to racial justice and change. It's unpleasant to DO and I'm sure an unpleasant thing to read. I'm sure in the process I am violating MANY current pillars and standards of what is or isn't politically correct. I'm sorry about all of it and the hard feelings we all are experiencing in these times. But things have to be said. BLM and many many others in the community of those trying to fight back against the police are using cases like Sandra Bland, which was a bad arrest and a bad detention and one that outraged ME, in lists of examples of cops killing blacks.
SHE KILLED HERSELF! Because it sucked so terribly to go through what she was going through? For sure. No doubt an injustice. But the police didn't kill her and when you include her on the list my eyes glaze over and I start thinking about these other names. How many on that list were, like Michael Brown, fighting with the police after someone had called 911 on them? |
Jammer,
You lost me in this reply the minute you went searching for something to dismiss the site. I only shared it because Ex was under the impression that we had somehow "overcome" in this country in the 60-70s
It is not my site. If you have problems with it consult its owner.
This is an issue even in our generation Ex. That is the problem.
The current count THIS year for police related deaths is 559. How high does it have to go? Isn't that enough death to warrant change?????
Do we really have to nitpick through them all looking for only the most angelic and pristine to make this issue felt enough to be addressed? In my eyes, one death is one too many but maybe I see things differently.
| Quote: |
| Here's the deal. I'm actually on your side and have been my entire life. lol. And I am telling you what's wrong with your approach to racial justice and change. It's unpleasant to DO and I'm sure an unpleasant thing to read. I'm sure in the process I am violating MANY current pillars and standards of what is or isn't politically correct. I'm sorry about all of it and the hard feelings we all are experiencing in these times. But things have to be said. BLM and many many others in the community of those trying to fight back against the police are using cases like Sandra Bland, which was a bad arrest and a bad detention and one that outraged ME, in lists of examples of cops killing blacks. |
It is not MY approach so please stop. If you wish to state your opinion on BLM fine but don't assume you know what my side or approach is._________________
| SuziQ wrote: |
| ima say this only once, and I'm never gonna say it again. Parker's damn good. |
|
|
Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 8942
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| Posted: 07/09/16 2:58 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| myt wrote: |
| Ex-Ref wrote: |
| justintyme wrote: |
| To restore trust between the black community and the police there is going to need to be unfettered openness and a lot of bending over backwards on the part of the police. Perhaps that even means putting themselves at greater risk in some situations. But that is the priced to be paid for the violation of that trust to begin with. |
Where does forgiveness come in? |
Usually after the admittance of wrong doing and then heartfelt actions that one is sorry and make changes going forward.
Isn't that when/how you are moved to forgive someone? |
Well, slavery was stopped.
Lynchings have stopped.
Jim Crow is no longer.
Segregation has ended.
(I know that someone is going to pull a single example here or there, you're never going to stop everything, but I think that the effort has been made.)
So why continue to cite things from hundreds of years ago as a reason to continue the distrust?
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mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 19760
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| Posted: 07/09/16 3:02 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Ex-Ref wrote: |
| myt wrote: |
| Ex-Ref wrote: |
| justintyme wrote: |
| To restore trust between the black community and the police there is going to need to be unfettered openness and a lot of bending over backwards on the part of the police. Perhaps that even means putting themselves at greater risk in some situations. But that is the priced to be paid for the violation of that trust to begin with. |
Where does forgiveness come in? |
Usually after the admittance of wrong doing and then heartfelt actions that one is sorry and make changes going forward.
Isn't that when/how you are moved to forgive someone? |
Well, slavery was stopped.
Lynchings have stopped.
Jim Crow is no longer.
Segregation has ended.
(I know that someone is going to pull a single example here or there, you're never going to stop everything, but I think that the effort has been made.)
So why continue to cite things from hundreds of years ago as a reason to continue the distrust? |
Because they continue to have an impact today.
_________________
“Anyone point out that a Donald Trump anagram is ‘Lord Dampnut’”- Colin Mochrie
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jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 21046
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| Posted: 07/09/16 3:13 pm ::: |
Reply |
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| myt wrote: |
It is not MY approach so please stop. If you wish to state your opinion on BLM fine but don't assume you know what my side or approach is. |
Agreed and sincerely apologize for how I word my responses. I'm blathering at the air mostly. Sorry._________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
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myt
Joined: 29 Nov 2007
Posts: 3923
Location: California
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| Posted: 07/09/16 3:15 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| mercfan3 wrote: |
| Ex-Ref wrote: |
| myt wrote: |
| Ex-Ref wrote: |
| justintyme wrote: |
| To restore trust between the black community and the police there is going to need to be unfettered openness and a lot of bending over backwards on the part of the police. Perhaps that even means putting themselves at greater risk in some situations. But that is the priced to be paid for the violation of that trust to begin with. |
Where does forgiveness come in? |
Usually after the admittance of wrong doing and then heartfelt actions that one is sorry and make changes going forward.
Isn't that when/how you are moved to forgive someone? |
Well, slavery was stopped.
Lynchings have stopped.
Jim Crow is no longer.
Segregation has ended.
(I know that someone is going to pull a single example here or there, you're never going to stop everything, but I think that the effort has been made.)
So why continue to cite things from hundreds of years ago as a reason to continue the distrust? |
Because they continue to have an impact today. |
Its an impact Ex that is STILL effecting our generation. Hate to break it to you but the list I shared is post the 60-70s.
Through Jammer's careful analysis he has found a couple of listings that might not belong. However, there is enough in that list that are accurate.
Regardless, at what point do we as a society say enough is ENOUGH!_________________
| SuziQ wrote: |
| ima say this only once, and I'm never gonna say it again. Parker's damn good. |
|
|
jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 21046
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Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 8942
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| Posted: 07/09/16 3:19 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| mercfan3 wrote: |
| Ex-Ref wrote: |
| myt wrote: |
| Ex-Ref wrote: |
| justintyme wrote: |
| To restore trust between the black community and the police there is going to need to be unfettered openness and a lot of bending over backwards on the part of the police. Perhaps that even means putting themselves at greater risk in some situations. But that is the priced to be paid for the violation of that trust to begin with. |
Where does forgiveness come in? |
Usually after the admittance of wrong doing and then heartfelt actions that one is sorry and make changes going forward.
Isn't that when/how you are moved to forgive someone? |
Well, slavery was stopped.
Lynchings have stopped.
Jim Crow is no longer.
Segregation has ended.
(I know that someone is going to pull a single example here or there, you're never going to stop everything, but I think that the effort has been made.)
So why continue to cite things from hundreds of years ago as a reason to continue the distrust? |
Because they continue to have an impact today. |
And it's all a vicious cycle. It will never stop.
I had a couple of thoughts but I'm not sure if they help or hurt.
One is "forgive and forget, relive and regret."
The other is the Japanese people and their ability/desire to get past that we dropped a couple of bombs on them killing ~200,000 (estimates vary) innocent people and destroying two cities.
I don't know how they did it or why. Maybe they felt that it was their 'punishment' for first attacking Pearl Harbor. Maybe it's a 'keep your friends close and your enemies closer' thing. I find it distasteful that we dropped the bombs on civilians vs. military bases.
Maybe the two don't have any similarities.
I do know that when I've been accused of doing something wrong and hurtful and I try to make amends and that's not accepted, that I just give up and walk away. I've done what I can do. I'll let you decide what you want to do.
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jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 21046
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| Posted: 07/09/16 3:26 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| myt wrote: |
| mercfan3 wrote: |
| Ex-Ref wrote: |
| myt wrote: |
| Ex-Ref wrote: |
| justintyme wrote: |
| To restore trust between the black community and the police there is going to need to be unfettered openness and a lot of bending over backwards on the part of the police. Perhaps that even means putting themselves at greater risk in some situations. But that is the priced to be paid for the violation of that trust to begin with. |
Where does forgiveness come in? |
Usually after the admittance of wrong doing and then heartfelt actions that one is sorry and make changes going forward.
Isn't that when/how you are moved to forgive someone? |
Well, slavery was stopped.
Lynchings have stopped.
Jim Crow is no longer.
Segregation has ended.
(I know that someone is going to pull a single example here or there, you're never going to stop everything, but I think that the effort has been made.)
So why continue to cite things from hundreds of years ago as a reason to continue the distrust? |
Because they continue to have an impact today. |
Its an impact Ex that is STILL effecting our generation. Hate to break it to you but the list I shared is post the 60-70s.
Through Jammer's careful analysis he has found a couple of listings that might not belong. However, there is enough in that list that are accurate.
Regardless, at what point do we as a society say enough is ENOUGH! |
At what point does the killing of children by other blacks elicit a MOVEMENT of black Americans who say enough is enough? Every list of blacks killed by the police pales in comparison to the numbers of blacks that are killed by other blacks. When does a movement rise up to put a stop to that?
Because without a movement we only have these things called cops to deal with all of these violent killers who happen to have black skin. And that's a huge problem that takes us back to this idea that you called ridiculous which is a self-imposed moratorium on criminal activity within the nation of black communities. Ridiculous? Yeah. It sounds ridiculous. But it could have legs. If it doesn't have legs, by God, WHY wouldn't it have legs.
Another one would be a moratorium on anyone black calling 911 to report criminal activity by other blacks. I'm not suggesting that but I'm surprised it hasn't been put out there by some group.
I have another that's more to the subject of what to so with the police.
These body cameras. Make them a MUCH bigger and more important part of every cops job. Require them to be on at all times that the cop isn't on a break or eating lunch and LIVE STREAM each and every camera on a public network in every city so that the public who is paying for the police has a record of exactly what the police are doing and make failures to turn the camera on etc. highly punishable matters. You could block audio so that the police can have discussions while still having that audio retained by the force. The expense is the cameras. The rest of this is nothing but network access and some large databases. Every day video can be compressed and archived. It's doable._________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
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myt
Joined: 29 Nov 2007
Posts: 3923
Location: California
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justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 8407
Location: Northfield, MN
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| Posted: 07/09/16 3:32 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Ex-Ref wrote: |
If you're going back that far, then it's never going to change. If these feelings have been held on to for that long, there is no interest in changing things, or seeing things made better.
Someone has to stop and say, that's not my generation, that's not my fight. Let's move on from where we are right now. I thought that was the 60's and 70's. Apparently I'm wrong. |
This is a culturally embedded distrust that comes from centuries of persecution at the hands of the police. As white people we are tought that the police are community heroes, people who put their lives on the line to keep us safe. They are Andy Griffith and Barney Fife.
Black people have to have "The Talk" with their children. Police officers are people to be feared, who if you aren't careful will feel threatened by you and you could end up dead. Add in random stop and frisks, the war on drugs, and there has been no reason to start trusting the police. To them the police are Vic Mackey and Shane Vendrell. This is a basic reality of life, and as the events in Minnesota and elsewhere prove, there is ample reason for this.
That is why trust needs to be earned first before this relationship can repair itself. And why that trust needs to come from actions and transparency by the police first and foremost. Until they prove that the culturally embedded distrust is no longer relevant it is not going to change, and why should it?
_________________
↑↑↓↓←→←→BA
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jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 21046
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| Posted: 07/09/16 3:34 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| myt wrote: |
| jammerbirdi wrote: |
| myt wrote: |
It is not MY approach so please stop. If you wish to state your opinion on BLM fine but don't assume you know what my side or approach is. |
Agreed and sincerely apologize for how I word my responses. I'm blathering at the air mostly. Sorry. |
Accepted 
I am trying to see your view point about this matter.
At 559 now, that number is staggering... it alone should be enough for change.
But if we get caught up in analyzing the person killed "well this person wasn't a saint" we miss the real issue of his death not needing to occur at all.
We as a country have enough issues to deal with without needing to be worried about being killed by those who are supposed to serve and protect us. |
I have NEVER in my entire life not advocated change in how the police deal with black America. I now, however, buffer the outrage that I've always felt with the facts of living in a country that is, in many cities, on the brink of Sao Paulo-like murder rates. So I'm outraged as well at the failures on every level that allow that to continue. Humans are deplorable beings. We need so many checks and balances on so many levels that don't exist today. I disagree, however, with the political pushback against the police as it has manifested itself now. It is to a great extent carried on by people who HATE the police. We know this because people put cameras in front of them and their hatred spews forth. As I said last year, this what a race war looks like. If only the early stages. It can and probably will get worse._________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
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jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 21046
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| Posted: 07/09/16 3:40 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| justintyme wrote: |
| Ex-Ref wrote: |
If you're going back that far, then it's never going to change. If these feelings have been held on to for that long, there is no interest in changing things, or seeing things made better.
Someone has to stop and say, that's not my generation, that's not my fight. Let's move on from where we are right now. I thought that was the 60's and 70's. Apparently I'm wrong. |
This is a culturally embedded distrust that comes from centuries of persecution at the hands of the police. As white people we are tought that the police are community heroes, people who put their lives on the line to keep us safe. They are Andy Griffith and Barney Fife.
|
This is a condescending. What's amazing is that I really get the impression that it's unintentionally so. Which I totally don't understand. It's like from Answers.com.  _________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
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myt
Joined: 29 Nov 2007
Posts: 3923
Location: California
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| Posted: 07/09/16 3:42 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| jammerbirdi wrote: |
At what point does the killing of children by other blacks elicit a MOVEMENT of black Americans who say enough is enough? Every list of blacks killed by the police pales in comparison to the numbers of blacks that are killed by other blacks. When does a movement rise up to put a stop to that?
Because without a movement we only have these things called cops to deal with all of these violent killers who happen to have black skin. And that's a huge problem that takes us back to this idea that you called ridiculous which is a self-imposed moratorium on criminal activity within the nation of black communities. Ridiculous? Yeah. It sounds ridiculous. But it could have legs. If it doesn't have legs, by God, WHY wouldn't it have legs.
Another one would be a moratorium on anyone black calling 911 to report criminal activity by other blacks. I'm not suggesting that but I'm surprised it hasn't been put out there by some group.
I have another that's more to the subject of what to so with the police.
These body cameras. Make them a MUCH bigger and more important part of every cops job. Require them to be on at all times that the cop isn't on a break or eating lunch and LIVE STREAM each and every camera on a public network in every city so that the public who is paying for the police has a record of exactly what the police are doing and make failures to turn the camera on etc. highly punishable matters. You could block audio so that the police can have discussions while still having that audio retained by the force. The expense is the cameras. The rest of this is nothing but network access and some large databases. Every day video can be compressed and archived. It's doable. |
Jammer, why are you under the impression there are no grassroots movements out helping communities? I know it doesn't get airtime because good doesn't sell on the news but it is occurring.
As long as there are cities with poverty and high unemployment there will be crime. That is not just a black thing; its a human thing. Civil works projects is one example that could create jobs.
We have teens of all races who think its waaayyyyy cooler to make a video to viral on youtube. What does that say about us as a country?
Body camera can "mysterious" come off police during incidents so another option will have to be implemented. Perhaps the camera in inserted within the vest? But even that can be covered.... so the jury is still out on that...
Police have to be held to higher standards. If they truly fear the community they serve they need to be re-assigned._________________
| SuziQ wrote: |
| ima say this only once, and I'm never gonna say it again. Parker's damn good. |
|
|
myt
Joined: 29 Nov 2007
Posts: 3923
Location: California
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| Posted: 07/09/16 3:48 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| jammerbirdi wrote: |
| myt wrote: |
| jammerbirdi wrote: |
| myt wrote: |
It is not MY approach so please stop. If you wish to state your opinion on BLM fine but don't assume you know what my side or approach is. |
Agreed and sincerely apologize for how I word my responses. I'm blathering at the air mostly. Sorry. |
Accepted
I am trying to see your view point about this matter.
At 559 now, that number is staggering... it alone should be enough for change.
But if we get caught up in analyzing the person killed "well this person wasn't a saint" we miss the real issue of his death not needing to occur at all.
We as a country have enough issues to deal with without needing to be worried about being killed by those who are supposed to serve and protect us. |
I have NEVER in my entire life not advocated change in how the police deal with black America. I now, however, buffer the outrage that I've always felt with the facts of living in a country that is, in many cities, on the brink of Sao Paulo-like murder rates. So I'm outraged as well at the failures on every level that allow that to continue. Humans are deplorable beings. We need so many checks and balances on so many levels that don't exist today. I disagree, however, with the political pushback against the police as it has manifested itself now. It is to a great extent carried on by people who HATE the police. We know this because people put cameras in front of them and their hatred spews forth. As I said last year, this what a race war looks like. If only the early stages. It can and probably will get worse. |
Why do they HATE the police? Are they tired of seeing the years of injustice with no repercussion? I don't know the answer either just posting the thought.
A race war... well untimely, its the human race at stake so something has to give._________________
| SuziQ wrote: |
| ima say this only once, and I'm never gonna say it again. Parker's damn good. |
Last edited by myt on 07/09/16 3:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 07/09/16 3:49 pm ::: |
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| jammerbirdi wrote: |
| I now, however, buffer the outrage that I've always felt with the facts of living in a country that is, in many cities, on the brink of Sao Paulo-like murder rates. |
Indeed! Perhaps you should review your facts. Chicago is widely touted as one of the most violent cities in the US. It had half as many murders last year as it did 20 years ago. The violent crime rate throughout the US is at historically low levels, below even the Leave It To Beaver 50's.
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I ain't got a home
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myt
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justintyme
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| Posted: 07/09/16 3:57 pm ::: |
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| jammerbirdi wrote: |
At what point does the killing of children by other blacks elicit a MOVEMENT of black Americans who say enough is enough? Every list of blacks killed by the police pales in comparison to the numbers of blacks that are killed by other blacks. When does a movement rise up to put a stop to that? |
I don't know about you, Jammer, but I have always been more bothered by the actions of those who have authority over me than I am about the actions of my peers. Don't get me wrong, I can feel and understand the danger from my peers and will push back agaisnt it, but it won't have the same level of outrage as when those who have been given authority over me in order to serve me abuse that authority.
An abuse of authority like that is more than just an attack on my life. It is an attack on my autonomy, an attack on my humanity, and--in a non religious sort of way--an attack on my soul.
My peer kills me, and I have died. When I am killed as part of a systemic abuse of authority, not only have I been killed but so has hope and trust amongst those still living. An entire community feels the loss of autonomy, self-determination, and social balance.
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myt
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jammerbirdi
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| Posted: 07/09/16 4:03 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| jammerbirdi wrote: |
| I now, however, buffer the outrage that I've always felt with the facts of living in a country that is, in many cities, on the brink of Sao Paulo-like murder rates. |
Indeed! Perhaps you should review your facts. Chicago is widely touted as one of the most violent cities in the US. It had half as many murders last year as it did 20 years ago. The violent crime rate throughout the US is at historically low levels, below even the Leave It To Beaver 50's. |
First five years of two decades, then and now. Murders in the United States.
1960 9,110
1961 8,740
1962 8,530
1963 8,640
1964 9,360
2010 14,772
2011 14,661
2012 14,866
2013 14,319
2014 14,249
More people, sure. But still one me and one you to absorb these stories. More murders. Concentrated murders within certain communities. Chicago is a war zone for the people who live in the poorer black neighborhoods. Yeah, certainly not so much in the more well-to-do enclaves.
In the last two years, however, things are getting worse in terms of murder. Numbers are up everywhere._________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
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jammerbirdi
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| Posted: 07/09/16 4:06 pm ::: |
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| myt wrote: |
| jammerbirdi wrote: |
| justintyme wrote: |
| Ex-Ref wrote: |
If you're going back that far, then it's never going to change. If these feelings have been held on to for that long, there is no interest in changing things, or seeing things made better.
Someone has to stop and say, that's not my generation, that's not my fight. Let's move on from where we are right now. I thought that was the 60's and 70's. Apparently I'm wrong. |
This is a culturally embedded distrust that comes from centuries of persecution at the hands of the police. As white people we are taught that the police are community heroes, people who put their lives on the line to keep us safe. They are Andy Griffith and Barney Fife.
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This is a condescending. What's amazing is that I really get the impression that it's unintentionally so. Which I totally don't understand. It's like from Answers.com. |
And yet how else do you explain the Rodney King verdict from the Simi Valley jury?
What do you think their view of the police was and probably still is?  |
I'm quibbling with justintyme's tone, not her facts. We all stipulate, I'm sure to the the facts being stated there. But they're condescendingly presented IMO._________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
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myt
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