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GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 3257
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PostPosted: 06/24/16 11:29 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Couldn't take the tedium and plethora of missed shots, so I turned off the USA-Czech game in the 3Q.

DeCosta and Collier, from whom I hopes for some magic, showed nothing in this game.
awhom111



Joined: 19 Nov 2014
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PostPosted: 06/24/16 8:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Italy beat South Korea, although not particularly convincingly.

Mali is no fluke, but they did lose to Spain. Brazil looked to be in trouble, but ended up beating Portugal.

The Czechs and Portuguese probably had a rougher start than expected, but both probably still think that they can make a run.


Durantula



Joined: 30 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: 06/25/16 3:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

USA is beating Italy 41-40 after three quarters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaNfg6IVofs


awhom111



Joined: 19 Nov 2014
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PostPosted: 06/25/16 11:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Man, I really dropped the ball on this yesterday.

The United States knew that Italy would be another tough game, but they did just enough to win.

There were no real surprises overall on the last day of the group stage. They take a day off to let the other tournament play, so the knockout rounds start on Monday.

Bracket:
Canada vs Mexico
Italy vs Mali
Latvia vs China
South Korea vs Spain
Japan vs France
United States vs Brazil
Czech Republic vs Portugal
Australia automatically advances

First up is the revenge game against Brazil. I suppose there's no chance of taking them lightly, last place in their group or not. Any potential semifinal matchup will be tricky.


awhom111



Joined: 19 Nov 2014
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PostPosted: 06/26/16 12:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Times have been set for Monday's games. Video links have been posted too (all times Eastern):

United States vs Brazil, 12:15pm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2G28FC8ueQ
Czech Republic vs Portugal, 7:45am: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DODhA5nPsKM
Canada vs Mexico, 10:00am: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiH4EZ-hvo4
Italy vs Mali, 10:30am: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYunZFknglw
Japan vs France, 12:45pm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlsC69OlmwA
Latvia vs China, 2:30pm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfJyUn8Cxeg
South Korea vs Spain, 3:00pm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRIIrSPwHiI


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 06/26/16 1:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Isn't this unusual for FIBA in that all 16 (15 sans Nigeria) advance to elimination play? The entirety of pool play here did nothing but set the seeding. Typically at least half the teams are eliminated by the pool results and don't advance to the bracket play. Why are they starting with a 16 team bracket rather than just 8?


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 06/26/16 1:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

BTW, apart from the US, I think Mali has become my top rooting interest. I've watched a couple of their games, including against Spain. This team is remarkably well coached. They seem to lack the individual offensive skills that come primarily from years of play, but they play really good in-your-face defense.

Against Spain, they just couldn't score quite enough to get over the hump, but they hung in there the whole game, with the Spain lead usually floating between five and ten.

Does anyone have any background on how this team was put together? It certainly is a surprise to me. They are long and athletic and well organized. The offensive limitations will probably keep them from advancing far, but if you get a chance, watch them.


awhom111



Joined: 19 Nov 2014
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PostPosted: 06/26/16 11:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FIBA had the 12 out of 16 teams advancing format for a while. The bottom team in each group would play a round robin. The four groups would then become two groups with each team playing two more games before the quarterfinals.

This format means that all group games count equally instead of tossing out a game after the first round. Unfortunately it tends to create giant mismatches and pointless Round of 16 games. The United States has a tricky first game this time though I suppose there is zero chance that the coaching staff takes Brazil lightly.

Mali was the undefeated champion of the FIBA Africa U16 champion last year. I do not know how things work there, but they and Senegal historically have been the best at putting together youth teams. One of their players apparently came here to play in high school. If Nigeria could get their act together and better tap into their player pool here, they would probably leap up much higher in the pecking order on their continent besides the occasional qualification.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 06/27/16 9:54 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Mali leads Italy 18-13 at the end of the first quarter.

Go Mali!


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 06/27/16 10:21 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Mali still leads by 2 at the half. Italy is doing a much better job of boxing out and crashing the defensive boards, and its zone has largely reduced the Mali offense to perimeter passes and shooting threes. Mali's lack of offensive ball skills is really on full exhibition. But Mali's defensive movement, quckness and length is still giving Italy fits.

It is hilarious hearing Italy's coach screaming and gesticulating at the officials in Italian as if anyone has any idea what he's saying.

This is anyone's game.


FollowtheCardinalRule



Joined: 12 Oct 2011
Posts: 4956
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PostPosted: 06/27/16 11:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Mali knocked out by Italy.


In much more shocking news, Brazil leads the Americans 20-18 after 1Q.


FollowtheCardinalRule



Joined: 12 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: 06/27/16 12:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

America leads Brazil 38-32 at the half.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 06/27/16 12:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Oh well, tied at the end of 3, but Italy pulled out a 3 pt win over Mali.

In its game, the US trailed by 2 after the first Q to Brazil but tightened up the D and dominated the 2nd Q. US led by 10 but a couple late baskets by Brazil left the US with a 6 pt halftime lead, which is where the game stands.

Even when the US was trailing, this seemed like the best offensive performance I've seen from this US team so far.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 06/27/16 12:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

US leads 63-47 after 3.

Bailey made a brilliant defensive play. 2 on 1 fast break by Brazil. She played perfect position and ended up swatting away the layup, which led to a US fast break basket.

De Costa made two great defensive plays but couldn't follow up. She stole the ball and had a break away layup but missed. Brazil got the rebound but before they could get across half court, deCosta stole it again, and again blew the layup. Brazil got the rebound again.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 06/27/16 1:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

US wins 79-62.

Probably not as good a scorer, but Prohaska may be the best pg on the team. Looks like the best passer and floor general to me. Henderson is more of a scorer.

Some Div I program should go after Brazil's Carneiro. Looks to me like she could play at that level.


awhom111



Joined: 19 Nov 2014
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PostPosted: 06/27/16 8:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quarterfinals (Wednesday):
Canada vs Italy
China vs Spain
France vs United States
Australia vs Czech Republic

Consolation Bracket (Tuesday):
Mexico vs Mali, 3:45am ET (link not currently listed)
Latvia vs South Korea, 6:00am ET: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoSR_zA9d3M
Japan vs Brazil, 5:30am ET: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk9uxDYHmHg
Portugal automatically advances


awhom111



Joined: 19 Nov 2014
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PostPosted: 06/28/16 8:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Mali, Japan, and Latvia were the winners today.

Wednesday video links (times ET):
Mexico vs South Korea, 3:45am: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAM18XZCnjk
Mali vs Latvia, 5:30am: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8bx8LJmQWw
Japan vs Portugal, 6:00am: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zpDNYnwKaY
Canada vs Italy, 8:15am: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YLZk5qemMk
China vs Spain, 10:30am: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6SNu07GRYg
Australia vs Czech Republic, 12:45pm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDtzObOr6c8
France vs United States, 3:00pm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QC32Pj1TMtM


summertime blues



Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: 06/29/16 10:04 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Isn't Hamchetou Maiga from Mali, and doesn't she have a big hand in organizing their women's basketball teams now?



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 06/29/16 2:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So in the round of 8, Aus beat the hell out of the Czech Rep, Italy beat Canada by 2, and China beat Spain by 4.

Halfway through the second quarter the US and France are tied 20-20, primarily because the US is a stunning 3 of 20 - 15% - on 2 pt field goals. Impressive shooting there. Rolling Eyes


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 06/29/16 2:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The US is now 3/21 on two pt shots. Thankfully they hit a couple threes and a couple free throws to give them a 28-27 halftime lead.

The US plays good defense and rebounds well, but there have been some truly awful forced shots and there is way too much standing around by players without the ball.

If it wasn't for Christyn Williams and Abby Prohaska they'd be totally screwed. Williams has two of the US's three 2pt baskets (2/4) and three of the five 3s (3/4). Prohaska is 2/2, both 3s. The rest of the team is 1/17 on 2s and 0/1 on 3s. (That's less than 6% shooting.)


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 06/29/16 3:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

US leads 44-38 after 3 Q. They made a few baskets.

And France is plainly struggling against US defense, quickness and length.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 06/29/16 3:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Not sure I've ever seen so many shots completely miss the rim. Whether from behind the arc or from inside 5 feet, lots of shots that were two feet off line.

But US defense and rebounding were enough to win the game, 56-45.

SEC basketball.


ClayK



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: 06/29/16 3:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

They are high school girls, after all, and they did get the win.

Cathy Melain is the French coach, and there was talk she might come to the WNBA after she played well in either the Olympics or World Championships one year.

But regardless, this is not a tape one would show at a clinic.



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ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 06/29/16 3:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
They are high school girls, after all, and they did get the win.
. . . .
But regardless, this is not a tape one would show at a clinic.


Hey, there's a major college conference that plays like that. Laughing

You might show it at an SEC clinic. "See, you don't need offense to win games." Cool


ClayK



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: 06/29/16 5:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
ClayK wrote:
They are high school girls, after all, and they did get the win.
. . . .
But regardless, this is not a tape one would show at a clinic.


Hey, there's a major college conference that plays like that. Laughing

You might show it at an SEC clinic. "See, you don't need offense to win games." Cool


Good point. Which is why I like the Left Coast version of the game a lot better.



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awhom111



Joined: 19 Nov 2014
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PostPosted: 06/29/16 8:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Only the 5th Place Playoffs will be played on Thursday. Canada-Spain is at 10:45am ET and France-Czech Republic is at 1:00pm ET. The YouTube links are not up yet, but presumably will be later.


Fighting Artichoke



Joined: 12 Dec 2012
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PostPosted: 06/29/16 11:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
ClayK wrote:
They are high school girls, after all, and they did get the win.
. . . .
But regardless, this is not a tape one would show at a clinic.


Hey, there's a major college conference that plays like that. Laughing

You might show it at an SEC clinic. "See, you don't need offense to win games." Cool


Good point. Which is why I like the Left Coast version of the game a lot better.

UConn, Notre Dame, Dayton. There are 3 programs that play basketball well that are right or right-center (geographically).


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 06/30/16 9:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Fighting Artichoke wrote:
ClayK wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
ClayK wrote:
They are high school girls, after all, and they did get the win.
. . . .
But regardless, this is not a tape one would show at a clinic.


Hey, there's a major college conference that plays like that. Laughing

You might show it at an SEC clinic. "See, you don't need offense to win games." Cool


Good point. Which is why I like the Left Coast version of the game a lot better.

UConn, Notre Dame, Dayton. There are 3 programs that play basketball well that are right or right-center (geographically).


Nobody has accused McGuff's OhSt teams of relying on defense and rebounding, that's for sure.


what the



Joined: 12 Oct 2005
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Location: land of the opals - Australia


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PostPosted: 06/30/16 10:13 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

did anyone watch the end of china v spain ? so much emotion. my tip is china v usa for gold
Fighting Artichoke



Joined: 12 Dec 2012
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PostPosted: 06/30/16 10:27 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Fighting Artichoke wrote:
ClayK wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
ClayK wrote:
They are high school girls, after all, and they did get the win.
. . . .
But regardless, this is not a tape one would show at a clinic.


Hey, there's a major college conference that plays like that. Laughing

You might show it at an SEC clinic. "See, you don't need offense to win games." Cool


Good point. Which is why I like the Left Coast version of the game a lot better.

UConn, Notre Dame, Dayton. There are 3 programs that play basketball well that are right or right-center (geographically).


Nobody has accused McGuff's OhSt teams of relying on defense and rebounding, that's for sure.

Or Bruno's DePaul teams. Or Coach Q's 'Cuse teams. Sure they press, but not strong rebounders and don't score on just offensive rebounds.


awhom111



Joined: 19 Nov 2014
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PostPosted: 06/30/16 8:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ESPN will have coverage of the next two games. The semifinal against Australia will be on ESPN3 at 10:00am ET on Friday. If we had gotten picked for the first semifinal, they actually would have found space for it on ESPNU, but I guess they would rather videocast a radio show. Either way, this is good news since you would have needed a livebasketball.tv account to watch otherwise.


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 06/30/16 9:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

awhom111 wrote:
ESPN will have coverage of the next two games. The semifinal against Australia will be on ESPN3 at 10:00am ET on Friday. If we had gotten picked for the first semifinal, they actually would have found space for it on ESPNU, but I guess they would rather videocast a radio show. Either way, this is good news since you would have needed a livebasketball.tv account to watch otherwise.


It looks like the semis are still listed on the FIBA YouTube channel, aren't they?


awhom111



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PostPosted: 06/30/16 11:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
awhom111 wrote:
ESPN will have coverage of the next two games. The semifinal against Australia will be on ESPN3 at 10:00am ET on Friday. If we had gotten picked for the first semifinal, they actually would have found space for it on ESPNU, but I guess they would rather videocast a radio show. Either way, this is good news since you would have needed a livebasketball.tv account to watch otherwise.


It looks like the semis are still listed on the FIBA YouTube channel, aren't they?


I guess they are. The boys' games are not though. Who knows with FIBA? Not that we should really complain since they make so many events free.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 07/01/16 9:01 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

They actually have announcers for the semifinals.

Italy beat China 62-51 by the way.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 07/01/16 9:13 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Looks like another typical US game. US hanging close with defense and rebounding but is 1/13 shooting..

I am stunned that this group of highly regarded US players can't make any kind of basket (except free throws. They shoot free throws well).


what the



Joined: 12 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: 07/01/16 9:15 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

watching the gold medal game now - shame it is one round too early
ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 07/01/16 9:21 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

US makes some substitutions and goes on a bit of a run to close to within 3, 16-23 at the end of the first quarter.

The US frankly has played better in all aspects other than shooting. If they had any scorers they'd be winning easily but they're 5/20 shooting.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 07/01/16 9:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Henderson is a prime example of the US problem. Very athletic, good defense, but basketball IQ is suspect. Twice in a row dribbled full speed length of the court, did some wild spin move in the paint, and then slammed the ball off the backboard way too hard. No touch at all.

She has taken 11 of the US team's 28 shots but only made 3 of them.

Oh, and the US has to go back to their usual m2m defense because this zone is a sieve.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 07/01/16 9:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

deCosta may not be a great shooter, but wow is she a great rebounder. Knows where to be, has good timing and hands.

She's certainly not the biggest player out there but she might be the toughest player out there.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 07/01/16 9:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

US trails 36-27 at the half.

Why? Primarily because they're 11/40 shooting. 0/5 from the arc.

Collier 0/3, Williams 1/6, Dodson 1/4, Henderson 3/12, etc.

And they're not even making free throws today - 5/11.

The lack of touch on simple layups is stunning. Waiting for someone to break a backboard slamming a layup off of it.

DeCosta and Bailey playing pretty well.

Thankfully Australia is only 14/36 shooting or this would be really ugly. The US is contributing to that by playing good defense most of the time.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 07/01/16 10:01 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Well, there's Henderson with another don't even look to pass, charge into traffic, do the same spin move, and clank the ball off the backboard.

I bet she does that same exact thing at least ten times a game in AAU ball.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 07/01/16 10:07 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Well, the US had closed to 3 but after another forced shot and two bad turnovers by Henderson, it's back to 7.

Henderson should sit the rest of this game.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 07/01/16 10:15 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

US down 13 with one quarter to play (it was 15 btw)

US now 19 of 59 shooting.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 07/01/16 10:21 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Typical. Nice steal at the point by Prohaska, she missed the breakaway layup and no one on the US team bothered to run the floor to follow up.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 07/01/16 10:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So finally Dodson and Nelson-Ododa make really nice drives to the basket and exhibit nice touch on their shots. They looked the way you expect these players to look.

US still down 12 with five minutes to go.

And then Henderson steals the ball, takes the ball the length of the floor, drives into traffic and throws up a brick.

And next possession, drives into traffic and turns it over.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 07/01/16 10:34 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

US down 10 with 2 minutes to go.

If Nelson-Ododa hadn't scored 17 second half points, it would be a lot worse.


what the



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PostPosted: 07/01/16 10:43 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

wow
ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 07/01/16 10:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

US loses 73-60.

OK, the US coaching is certainly suspect. I can't figure out the choices as to who gets playing time or the substitution patterns. And there just aren't plays designed to get the ball to players in good scoring position.

But I think the problem starts with the player selections. USA Basketball keeps picking AAU athletes and prioritizing athleticism. They don't include enough shooters and they don't include quality PGs. Prohaska looks like the only facilitator/passer, but she was a bit of a defensive liability. Instead they play Henderson at the point most of the game but she's a black hole. Ball gets in her hands and generally never comes out. Forced shot after forced shot. (5/21 for the game. No other player took more than 9 shots. 3 assists, 5 turnovers.)

You can't entirely blame the coach if players can't make layups or 3 ft putbacks.

And Australia played well, especially in the second half. Aus didn't exactly tear it up shooting - both teams took 75 shots and Aus made 27 vs the US's 23 - but from the arc Aus made 6 while the US was 1/14.




Last edited by ArtBest23 on 07/01/16 11:15 am; edited 3 times in total
what the



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PostPosted: 07/01/16 10:56 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

.....
ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 07/01/16 11:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

To make sure credit is given where due, I go back to the time the roster was selected to Clay's comment:

ClayK wrote:

The big issue for this team will be finding points that don't come in transition or off steals. There aren't a lot of shooters, and those who can shoot aren't really a threat to drive.

And there's not a pure point guard, though maybe Taylor Mikesell is. I was very surprised she made the team, as I didn't have a single note on her the entire time I was there. But she did something right ...


Talk about nailing it.

BTW, Mikesell and Prince barely played the entire tournament and didn't play at all today.


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