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Why WNBA MVP Elena Delle Donne wants to lower the rims
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Happycappie25



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PostPosted: 06/15/17 6:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
Sorry to revisit this thread , but imo this season has been a drag so far. No real exciting games down to the last minute or never before seen plays. Im still riding this "Lower the Rims" train. At least a 2 year experiment if this is such an "Entertainment League" Then i need to be entertained. This has been a referee show so far and its honestly boring to watch and that pains me to say being a 21 year Fan.


said it before for it to work it has to be done worldwide at least at the pro level i'd say college too...otherwise if the W is the gimmick league and they have to adjust each time they come here I think there would be over time a drain on the talent level...this isn't moving the 3 pt line this is a fundamental change to the way the game is played.

as for this season...I agree...between EuroBasket and moving the season too early games have not been great...2 best games ive seen both had the winner pull away late (both NY SEA games with both teams exchanging results)

refs are using the review as a crutch...it happens in the NBA as well but it's really noticiable in the W with lower ref quality...hopefully the higher pay and tougher grading in the new ref CBA will kick in over time and improve ref quality because I agree too many things judged on us looking over the refs...need change.

As for the Entertainment league comment...I agree Borders was assisine saying that...players are playing harder (not always smarter) which means more D and tactical play, this is part of it but its not something you wanna mess with.

Lowering the rims can be investigated if it can be done as easily as volleyball across the board (IE everyone gets hydraulic stanchions or an even better way is invented) but it cant happen in the W in a vacuum too many overseas commitment...hell USAB may even object to having to play a ton of games at one height then have to come over and adjust to a new height...and losing the NT players every 4 years...DEATH.

Don't believe me? similar thing happened when ball size was unevenly enforced with the W and overseas balls being different sizes in the early 2ks, confusion reigned and quality suffered...if you cant do something this major on a consistent basis honestly it shouldn't even be discussed...

so unless its across fiba...no



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pilight



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PostPosted: 06/15/17 7:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Lowering the rims isn't going to make the ref's jobs any easier nor make them do it any better



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josephkramer44



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PostPosted: 06/15/17 8:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Does anyone think that the WNBA is in need of a gimmick? I know attendance and tv ratings are not what the WNBA wants right now (especially after claiming such success after last season) but it is still early and school just let out in some of the northern states (I remember going to school in MN we always got out around this time because our schedule was built around the terrible weather) and the regular NBA season just ended. Nothing to do yet but wait for the final numbers to roll in. A big change like this is hard to implement and if it is implemented it is hard to go back on. Food for thought.


calbearman76



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PostPosted: 06/15/17 8:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Lowering the rims is an awful idea. What you would be doing is turning the game into an NBA type game, with shorter, slower less athletic players. Why not go the other way and put in a 15 ft. rim on top of the 10 ft. rim, and make those baskets worth double. Imagine the excitement of a team down 5 with 8 seconds to go. Imagine a player is fouled with her team down two and .3 seconds to go. She has two shots but bricks the first. Now she has to make the 15 ft. basket free throw to tie the game. And if you really want to get exciting how about you give credit for both baskets, so a 3 point shot that goes through both baskets is worth 9 points.

None of these gimmicks will do anything except make the game more of a joke than it is currently seen to be by many people who believe either that women shouldn't play sports, while highlighting that women are less athletic.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 06/15/17 9:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

calbearman76 wrote:
Lowering the rims is an awful idea. What you would be doing is turning the game into an NBA type game, with shorter, slower less athletic players. Why not go the other way and put in a 15 ft. rim on top of the 10 ft. rim, and make those baskets worth double. Imagine the excitement of a team down 5 with 8 seconds to go. Imagine a player is fouled with her team down two and .3 seconds to go. She has two shots but bricks the first. Now she has to make the 15 ft. basket free throw to tie the game. And if you really want to get exciting how about you give credit for both baskets, so a 3 point shot that goes through both baskets is worth 9 points.

None of these gimmicks will do anything except make the game more of a joke than it is currently seen to be by many people who believe either that women shouldn't play sports, while highlighting that women are less athletic.


I don't understand your assumption that it would result in "shorter, slower less athletic players.". I expect just the opposite, that it would put a premium on athleticism and make it a faster game, which the NBA certainly is.

I don't favor lowering the rims, but I certainly don't agree with your assessment of the likely effect if they did.

And I also disagree it would "highlight that women are less athletic.". It would simply reflect that women are generally shorter, which they are. I don't see that as a problem. It's just a fact.

But I like the game the way it is. It's a different game; so be it.


willtalk



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PostPosted: 06/15/17 9:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I can tell you that I am one fan that they will lose if they lower the rims. The reason I watch the Womens game is because of the over emphasis on dunking that has transpired in the mens game. All you have to do is see what effect elimination dunking did to the college game. It improved the skill level of the post players and frankly the level of the overall game for a time. The present day players are generally not as fundamentally sound as they were in the past. A lot of people that follow womens and girls basketball are basketball purists that are disgusted with the direction the game has taken. If you are obsessed with dunking then watch the guys play leave the womens game alone.


calbearman76



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PostPosted: 06/15/17 11:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
calbearman76 wrote:
Lowering the rims is an awful idea. What you would be doing is turning the game into an NBA type game, with shorter, slower less athletic players. Why not go the other way and put in a 15 ft. rim on top of the 10 ft. rim, and make those baskets worth double. Imagine the excitement of a team down 5 with 8 seconds to go. Imagine a player is fouled with her team down two and .3 seconds to go. She has two shots but bricks the first. Now she has to make the 15 ft. basket free throw to tie the game. And if you really want to get exciting how about you give credit for both baskets, so a 3 point shot that goes through both baskets is worth 9 points.

None of these gimmicks will do anything except make the game more of a joke than it is currently seen to be by many people who believe either that women shouldn't play sports, while highlighting that women are less athletic.


I don't understand your assumption that it would result in "shorter, slower less athletic players.". I expect just the opposite, that it would put a premium on athleticism and make it a faster game, which the NBA certainly is.

I don't favor lowering the rims, but I certainly don't agree with your assessment of the likely effect if they did.

And I also disagree it would "highlight that women are less athletic.". It would simply reflect that women are generally shorter, which they are. I don't see that as a problem. It's just a fact.

But I like the game the way it is. It's a different game; so be it.


My point is not that the WNBA would get less athletic players. It is that the WNBA players are less athletic than NBA players and that lowering the rim would merely highlight that point.


GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 06/15/17 11:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think the number of fouls and consequent whistles make the game tedious. I don't know that there are actually more fouls in the WNBA than the NBA, but coupled with the women's much lower skill level and rarity of exciting plays, the fouls make a stodgy game even stodgier.

To sharpen this dullness, I'd advocate lowering the number of fouls allowed from six to three rather than lowering the rims. This would literally open up offenses.
tfan



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PostPosted: 06/16/17 3:18 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
I think the number of fouls and consequent whistles make the game tedious. I don't know that there are actually more fouls in the WNBA than the NBA, but coupled with the women's much lower skill level and rarity of exciting plays, the fouls make a stodgy game even stodgier.

To sharpen this dullness, I'd advocate lowering the number of fouls allowed from six to three rather than lowering the rims. This would literally open up offenses.


You could speed up basketball at all levels by eliminating foul shots. If in a situation where foul shots would now be shot, award points for being fouled and play on. Would definitely make the bench more relevant.


pilight



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PostPosted: 06/16/17 6:52 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

There are more fouls called in WNBA games than in NBA games. Well, actually, there are about the same number of fouls called per game but NBA games are 20% longer so more fouls per minute in the W.



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WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 06/16/17 8:05 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

What about using the ASG as an experiment with the lower rims ? Im sorry guys just looking for something exciting. I actually liked the 15 ft basket on top of the 10 ft basket idea also . Players didnt seem to really be effected by the bigger ball overseas after a few practices so i dont believe lowering the rim 1 ft would be all that big of an adjustment . Thats just my opinion though some players do overthink things and it could really deter there game Ala (Marissa Coleman)



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willtalk



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PostPosted: 06/16/17 8:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If you want excitement just put spikes on the players knees and elbow pads. Or eliminate calling fouls all together. They could make the games like " Roller Ball ". That would really increase viewership. Or they could just have the players play naked.


Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 06/16/17 10:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

willtalk wrote:
If you want excitement just put spikes on the players knees and elbow pads. Or eliminate calling fouls all together. They could make the games like " Roller Ball ". That would really increase viewership. Or they could just have the players play naked.


Thank you. It is depressing that this unfortunate discussion has been revived. A wonderful sport shouldn't be ruined in the name of wanting "something exciting."



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tfan



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PostPosted: 06/16/17 11:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

willtalk wrote:
If you want excitement just put spikes on the players knees and elbow pads. Or eliminate calling fouls all together. They could make the games like " Roller Ball ". That would really increase viewership. Or they could just have the players play naked.


Neither of your suggestions would be allowed to be broadcast, if they were found to be legal.




Last edited by tfan on 06/16/17 11:55 am; edited 2 times in total
Randy



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PostPosted: 06/16/17 11:36 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'd say lowering the number of fouls would be the best way to make the games more entertaining. I think there would be fewer injuries, defense would be less physical and less damaging to players, more baskets would be scored and players might foul out more often making game outcome less predictable. 5 fouls would be the same number per minute as the NBA has. Also - cut down on these muggings called "hard screens" and "hard fouls." Suspend players for the game on a flagrant 1, and review for a suspension the following game the next day.

They would also do a lot to shorten the games - fewer reviews, make all FT's 1 and 1's. Make all fouls in the last 2 minutes 1 and 1 and all TO's 20 second in the last 2 minutes as well, Just make the game quicker, less predictable and less tedious and it will be better. None of these things fall into the category of gimmicks either.


tfan



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PostPosted: 06/16/17 11:43 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
5 fouls would be the same number per minute as the NBA has.


And the same number per minute as NCAA men's and women's basketball.


Jet Jaguar



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PostPosted: 06/16/17 11:46 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
Players didnt seem to really be effected by the bigger ball overseas after a few practices

What bigger ball overseas?

And I don't think the rim height is the issue, I think you guys just don't have entertaining enough players in the league...in my opinion Wink



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pilight



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PostPosted: 06/16/17 11:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Jet Jaguar wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
Players didnt seem to really be effected by the bigger ball overseas after a few practices

What bigger ball overseas?


I assume he means before FIBA switched to the smaller ball in 2004.



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WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 06/16/17 2:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Jet Jaguar wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
Players didnt seem to really be effected by the bigger ball overseas after a few practices

What bigger ball overseas?


I assume he means before FIBA switched to the smaller ball in 2004.


Thanks pilight



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calbearman76



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PostPosted: 06/16/17 4:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I certainly wouldn't mind changing some of the foul rules and interpretations. One thing I have considered is not stopping play on a defensive foul unless it results in a change of possession. There would be delayed penalties, where the foul would only be assessed if a team didn't score. The block/charge rule needs to be cleaned up. I'm not even sure I know exactly what the current interpretations are as they relate to both primary and secondary defenders (and trying to infer them from actual calls is impossible.) I have no problem with cutting the elimination level rom 6 to 5. And while I wouldn't do away with foul shots, I wouldn't mind allowing the offending team to choose to take the ball out of bounds.

On the offensive side, I would limit the time it takes for a free throw to 5 seconds. I would also clean up post play, particularly the practice of post players who make their initial offensive move by going straight into their defender to create space (sorry Nneka, that should be called a foul.)

And apart from fouls, I would limit TOs to no more than 2 in any one quarter.
All of this would improve game flow.


Randy



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PostPosted: 06/16/17 6:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Good ideas. I like the shoot or possession option - at least for the last two minutes. I would go with the possession arrow rather than a jump ball as well.

I would also cut out all the talking back to officials by the players. I would let the team captain ask for clarifications, and tell the rest of the players it is a t for talking to the official. All the constant whining and complaining makes the game look unprofessional and is a very bad example for kids to follow.


pilight



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PostPosted: 11/15/18 7:48 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nneka Ogwumike on lowering the rims

https://twitter.com/TheUndefeated/status/1062880614091776001



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PostPosted: 11/15/18 11:06 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/n2SGQWDzCLI" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>



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PostPosted: 11/15/18 11:13 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/dYB1anHOq2M" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I love how the interviewer goes “I’m not talking about dropping it 5 feet”. Umm, lady, have you done the math? Lowering it 5 feet would put the rim at 5 feet. All WNBA players would be able to look over the rim without jumping and just drop the ball in without jumping. It’s so sad when even women interviewers don’t even realize how patronizing they’re being... or in this case, just downright stupid.

Anyway, the majority of intelligent WNBA players (that excludes Delle Donne obviously) have stated they grew up playing on a 10 ft rim. Why should they need to relearn how to play the game on a lower rim?



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WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 11/15/18 6:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I believe if the rims were lowered honestly people would show and the pay would increase for these players. I understand being firm and sticking to your beliefs , but players complaining about pay but not willing to accept experiments to increase possible revenue from ticket sales seems just dumb. Lower the damn rims and lets get people in the seats .



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