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Why WNBA MVP Elena Delle Donne wants to lower the rims
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pilight



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PostPosted: 04/12/16 7:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
pilight wrote:
tfan wrote:
myrtle wrote:
Michael V Pearson wrote:
miller40 wrote:
Quote:
HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Diana Taurasi to discuss her WNBA return from Russia, UConn's dominance (6:00), the stupidity of lowering the rims (13:00)

https://soundcloud.com/the-bill-simmons-podcast/ep-85-diana-taurasi


I see this everywhere on my timelines. Ones that struck the most are Griner's, Latta's and Augustus's reaction. There may be pros or cons of lowering the rim but it's not stupid. People who think it 's stupid gets on my nerves. EDD is actually being honest about it. She may not be right but at least we get insider's thought about this, particularly from the players.

My wife is so impressed how vocal WNBA players can be, considering most players like to lay low. We get that most players are against it. But all this lowering discussion is not stupid, it's good for the league actually. It helps open up more discussions, like viewership, marketing, salary etc


Let me get on your nerves. I think it's beyond stupid. Very stupid. I like Taurasi's response "might as well put us in skirts and back in the kitchen" I have yet to see a GOOD reason to lower the rims. Not ONE.


2015 WNBA Playoffs Minnesota Lynx visiting Los Angeles Sparks

Arena Stats: ARENA Long Beach State, The Pyramid

ATTENDANCE 3112 DURATION 2:01

OFFICIALS #39 Michael Price, #34 Maj Forsberg, #35 Billy Smith


What evidence do you have that lowering the rim will make a difference in attendance?


I have the same evidence that people against lowering the rim have that it will not make a difference in attendance. As has been said, it is very easy to do trials during pre-season to see what effect it has.

If you were to make a list of teams that regularly fill 3/4 of the seats in their lower bowl - what teams would you put on that list?


You think a preseason trial will tell you something about the effect on regular season or postseason attendance?



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 04/12/16 7:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It's absolutely true that it would be easy to test out this idea in some preseason games to see what effect it would have on WNBA attendance. Just as the league could test out 20 other terrible ideas to see what effect they'd have on attendance.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 04/12/16 7:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
tfan wrote:
pilight wrote:
tfan wrote:
myrtle wrote:
Michael V Pearson wrote:
miller40 wrote:
Quote:
HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Diana Taurasi to discuss her WNBA return from Russia, UConn's dominance (6:00), the stupidity of lowering the rims (13:00)

https://soundcloud.com/the-bill-simmons-podcast/ep-85-diana-taurasi


I see this everywhere on my timelines. Ones that struck the most are Griner's, Latta's and Augustus's reaction. There may be pros or cons of lowering the rim but it's not stupid. People who think it 's stupid gets on my nerves. EDD is actually being honest about it. She may not be right but at least we get insider's thought about this, particularly from the players.

My wife is so impressed how vocal WNBA players can be, considering most players like to lay low. We get that most players are against it. But all this lowering discussion is not stupid, it's good for the league actually. It helps open up more discussions, like viewership, marketing, salary etc


Let me get on your nerves. I think it's beyond stupid. Very stupid. I like Taurasi's response "might as well put us in skirts and back in the kitchen" I have yet to see a GOOD reason to lower the rims. Not ONE.


2015 WNBA Playoffs Minnesota Lynx visiting Los Angeles Sparks

Arena Stats: ARENA Long Beach State, The Pyramid

ATTENDANCE 3112 DURATION 2:01

OFFICIALS #39 Michael Price, #34 Maj Forsberg, #35 Billy Smith


What evidence do you have that lowering the rim will make a difference in attendance?


I have the same evidence that people against lowering the rim have that it will not make a difference in attendance. As has been said, it is very easy to do trials during pre-season to see what effect it has.

If you were to make a list of teams that regularly fill 3/4 of the seats in their lower bowl - what teams would you put on that list?


You think a preseason trial will tell you something about the effect on regular season or postseason attendance?


It will give the league a chance to see the effect it has on the game and to talk to fans during and after the game to see their reaction. Some teams (Washington/LA/Connecticut, and probably others) have not retained fans, so increasing is not the only issue.




Last edited by tfan on 04/12/16 8:22 pm; edited 2 times in total
tfan



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PostPosted: 04/12/16 7:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
It's absolutely true that it would be easy to test out this idea in some preseason games to see what effect it would have on WNBA attendance. Just as the league could test out 20 other terrible ideas to see what effect they'd have on attendance.


If it turned out to be a "terrible" idea that in the 2016 pre-season the league lowered the rims to 9 feet, it would be forgotten by the 2016 mid-season break.

The women aren't as tall as, and don't jump as high as men. Lowering the rims won't make people, including detractors of the WNBA, suddenly realize that.

But a question for you as you have commented on actual attendance (as opposed to announced attendance) in the past - what teams would be on your list of the WNBA teams that regularly fill 2/3 of the seats in their lower bowl?


Shades



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PostPosted: 04/12/16 7:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
It's absolutely true that it would be easy to test out this idea in some preseason games to see what effect it would have on WNBA attendance. Just as the league could test out 20 other terrible ideas to see what effect they'd have on attendance.


I see preseason games as a way to test new players in real game situations to see if they should make the team.... not as a test for a gimmick.

Throw $10,000 at one of the minor leagues for them to test it out for a whole season.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 04/12/16 7:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
It's absolutely true that it would be easy to test out this idea in some preseason games to see what effect it would have on WNBA attendance. Just as the league could test out 20 other terrible ideas to see what effect they'd have on attendance.


I see preseason games as a way to test new players in real game situations to see if they should make the team.... not as a test for a gimmick.

Throw $10,000 at one of the minor leagues for them to test it out for a whole season.


Minor leagues?


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 04/12/16 9:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Say this experiment is a big success. Are you going to lower the rims only in WNBA games and leave it at 10 ft at every other level? That doesn't seem like a great idea, so then how are you going to get every college, high school, junior high, elementary school, and parks & recreation department in the country to purchase and install lower rims? There are over 130,000 schools in the US.

Perhaps there should be some discussion of the practicalities of implementing this before there is some headlong charge to try it out in games?

As I said, I don't feel strongly either way about the concept. I do consider it impractical and unrealistic to implement


Queenie



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PostPosted: 04/12/16 10:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Say this experiment is a big success. Are you going to lower the rims only in WNBA games and leave it at 10 ft at every other level? That doesn't seem like a great idea, so then how are you going to get every college, high school, junior high, elementary school, and parks & recreation department in the country to purchase and install lower rims? There are over 130,000 schools in the US.

Perhaps there should be some discussion of the practicalities of implementing this before there is some headlong charge to try it out in games?

As I said, I don't feel strongly either way about the concept. I do consider it impractical and unrealistic to implement


Not to mention that all of those places would have to have either two sets of baskets or adjustable stanchions. Hell, there are D-I schools that don't have adjustable stanchions.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 04/12/16 10:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
It's absolutely true that it would be easy to test out this idea in some preseason games to see what effect it would have on WNBA attendance. Just as the league could test out 20 other terrible ideas to see what effect they'd have on attendance.


I see preseason games as a way to test new players in real game situations to see if they should make the team.... not as a test for a gimmick.

Throw $10,000 at one of the minor leagues for them to test it out for a whole season.


Just amazing to me that this discussion of a "gimmick" (well said) goes on and on. tfan can add 1000 more posts on this subject and it will still be a waste of time and energy. I'm done.



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Let's remember Anucha Browne, who was sexually harassed by Isiah Thomas. In recent years, she served as a vice president of the NCAA focusing on women's basketball championships. Now she is part of the Senior Management Team of UNICEF USA.
tfan



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PostPosted: 04/12/16 10:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Say this experiment is a big success. Are you going to lower the rims only in WNBA games and leave it at 10 ft at every other level?


Yes.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 04/12/16 11:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
Say this experiment is a big success. Are you going to lower the rims only in WNBA games and leave it at 10 ft at every other level?


Yes.


Seriously?

I don't consider lowering the rims for all of women's basketball to be a "gimmick." Probably cost prohibitive, but a legitimate idea. Doing it only for the WNBA? Now THAT would reduce it to pure gimmickry. That strikes me as a horrible idea that would remove any legitimacy from the change.

So what you'd be saying is that 10 ft rims are perfectly fine for the entire universe of women's basketball - college, high school, international - except for a grand total of twelve teams. I can't see any argument for that being a good idea. Seems to me that either it becomes the standard for women's basketball, or it doesn't.


tfan



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PostPosted: 04/12/16 11:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

In looking at the definition of gimmick, I don't see it as always pejorative.

Google gives:
Quote:
a trick or device intended to attract attention, publicity, or business.


9 foot rims wouldn't be a trick. Merriam Webster includes:
Quote:
an ingenious and usually new scheme or angle


Adam Silver himself is looking for a "gimmick". But he doesn't call it that, he calls it a "silver bullet":

Quote:
“We thought we would have broken through by now,” Silver said. “We thought ratings and attendance would be higher.”

“I think we might have been ahead of ourselves 20 years ago in terms of what we were doing,” the NBA chief insisted. He then went on to note that they are struggling to find that “silver bulletthat will put them where they want to be with fans.


GEF34



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PostPosted: 04/13/16 12:03 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
pilight wrote:
tfan wrote:
pilight wrote:
tfan wrote:
myrtle wrote:
Michael V Pearson wrote:
miller40 wrote:
Quote:
HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Diana Taurasi to discuss her WNBA return from Russia, UConn's dominance (6:00), the stupidity of lowering the rims (13:00)

https://soundcloud.com/the-bill-simmons-podcast/ep-85-diana-taurasi


I see this everywhere on my timelines. Ones that struck the most are Griner's, Latta's and Augustus's reaction. There may be pros or cons of lowering the rim but it's not stupid. People who think it 's stupid gets on my nerves. EDD is actually being honest about it. She may not be right but at least we get insider's thought about this, particularly from the players.

My wife is so impressed how vocal WNBA players can be, considering most players like to lay low. We get that most players are against it. But all this lowering discussion is not stupid, it's good for the league actually. It helps open up more discussions, like viewership, marketing, salary etc


Let me get on your nerves. I think it's beyond stupid. Very stupid. I like Taurasi's response "might as well put us in skirts and back in the kitchen" I have yet to see a GOOD reason to lower the rims. Not ONE.


2015 WNBA Playoffs Minnesota Lynx visiting Los Angeles Sparks

Arena Stats: ARENA Long Beach State, The Pyramid

ATTENDANCE 3112 DURATION 2:01

OFFICIALS #39 Michael Price, #34 Maj Forsberg, #35 Billy Smith


What evidence do you have that lowering the rim will make a difference in attendance?


I have the same evidence that people against lowering the rim have that it will not make a difference in attendance. As has been said, it is very easy to do trials during pre-season to see what effect it has.

If you were to make a list of teams that regularly fill 3/4 of the seats in their lower bowl - what teams would you put on that list?


You think a preseason trial will tell you something about the effect on regular season or postseason attendance?


It will give the league a chance to see the effect it has on the game and to talk to fans during and after the game to see their reaction. Some teams (Washington/LA/Connecticut, and probably others) have not retained fans, so increasing is not the only issue.


This isn't something you can just throw at players like what the Lynx tried with one of their preseason games last season against a team I can't remember off hand, teams need to actually practice on a 9 foot rim to be able to play with any kind of effectiveness and they don't look like some rec team. Say this preseason game gets 10,000 people to attend, how are you going to know how many of those people are going to actually support the league or a team. And then you have the issue of how much would people supporting a league with 9 foot rims depend on the product on the floor, if the 1 game is sloppy because players aren't used to playing on 9 foot rims, that would probably turn a lot of people off more than the 9 foot rims in and of itself. There are a lot of variables that aren't controlled to just throw in 9 foot rims for 1 preseason game or even for the entire preseason to get an accurate or reasonable accurate answer as to how much it will affect attendance, interest and longevity of playing with 9 foot rims.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 04/13/16 12:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GEF34 wrote:

This isn't something you can just throw at players like what the Lynx tried with one of their preseason games last season against a team I can't remember off hand, teams need to actually practice on a 9 foot rim to be able to play with any kind of effectiveness and they don't look like some rec team. Say this preseason game gets 10,000 people to attend, how are you going to know how many of those people are going to actually support the league or a team. And then you have the issue of how much would people supporting a league with 9 foot rims depend on the product on the floor, if the 1 game is sloppy because players aren't used to playing on 9 foot rims, that would probably turn a lot of people off more than the 9 foot rims in and of itself. There are a lot of variables that aren't controlled to just throw in 9 foot rims for 1 preseason game or even for the entire preseason to get an accurate or reasonable accurate answer as to how much it will affect attendance, interest and longevity of playing with 9 foot rims.


Yeah, it would have to be the whole pre-season to get a good test of how the game would look. And that would negatively impact shooting on 10 foot rims in the early part of the regular season. Although it could be done as as "if pre-season goes OK, we experiment for the rest of the season".


GEF34



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PostPosted: 04/13/16 12:31 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
GEF34 wrote:

This isn't something you can just throw at players like what the Lynx tried with one of their preseason games last season against a team I can't remember off hand, teams need to actually practice on a 9 foot rim to be able to play with any kind of effectiveness and they don't look like some rec team. Say this preseason game gets 10,000 people to attend, how are you going to know how many of those people are going to actually support the league or a team. And then you have the issue of how much would people supporting a league with 9 foot rims depend on the product on the floor, if the 1 game is sloppy because players aren't used to playing on 9 foot rims, that would probably turn a lot of people off more than the 9 foot rims in and of itself. There are a lot of variables that aren't controlled to just throw in 9 foot rims for 1 preseason game or even for the entire preseason to get an accurate or reasonable accurate answer as to how much it will affect attendance, interest and longevity of playing with 9 foot rims.


Yeah, it would have to be the whole pre-season to get a good test of how the game would look. And that would negatively impact shooting on 10 foot rims in the early part of the regular season. Although it could be done as as "if pre-season goes OK, we experiment for the rest of the season".


There are other issues that go into that as well, like players who go straight from overseas to the WNBA, I believe a few years ago Kristi Toliver played in the 1st regular season game of the season coming straight from the airport after getting back from Russia, and she obviously isn't the only one is that situation, and then if the WNBA were to do this, it restricts where teams can practice. In years past the Sparks practiced at LA Southwest College and those rims are connected to the building so they aren't movable.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 04/13/16 5:00 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GEF34 wrote:

and then if the WNBA were to do this, it restricts where teams can practice. In years past the Sparks practiced at LA Southwest College and those rims are connected to the building so they aren't movable.


It could even be that the standard portable setup used in NBA arenas to hold the backboard and the rim, or the baskets that are attached to the ceiling in gyms and can be swung up and down, also cannot currently be adjusted to 9 foot rims.


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PostPosted: 04/13/16 2:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

My goodness.

Women's basketball will always be a niche sport. That's the simple, "end-of-story" reality.

The miss a bunny/get the rebound/miss a another bunny/ get the rebound AND 1 is the quintessential play of women's basketball. But it's getting better.

Deal with it. Smile



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what the



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PostPosted: 04/13/16 10:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

it is an interesting debate - recently attended a luncheon with an ex international athlete discussing this along with 3 point lines
GEF34



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PostPosted: 04/14/16 12:21 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
GEF34 wrote:

and then if the WNBA were to do this, it restricts where teams can practice. In years past the Sparks practiced at LA Southwest College and those rims are connected to the building so they aren't movable.


It could even be that the standard portable setup used in NBA arenas to hold the backboard and the rim, or the baskets that are attached to the ceiling in gyms and can be swung up and down, also cannot currently be adjusted to 9 foot rims.


If they are made by the same company that makes the ones for college they are adjustable, I believe the ones in Staples Center are adjustable, unless that have been changed from the ones they had in 2008.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 04/14/16 7:19 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
“The biggest examples (of sexism I encounter) I would say would be like, number one, when they talk about us basketball players they’ll always say ‘female basketball player’ like ‘Elena Delle Donne, female basketball player’, like ‘okay, you don’t need to say that, I’m a basketball player’. They don’t say ‘Kevin Durant, male basketball player’. So that’s something that kind of bugs me a little,” she says.


She doesn't want to be considered a female basketball player. She just wants to be considered a basketball player. And yet she wants lower rims for who, female basketball players? That's something that kind of bugs me a little.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 04/14/16 7:24 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Arrow



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 04/14/16 9:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Quote:
“The biggest examples (of sexism I encounter) I would say would be like, number one, when they talk about us basketball players they’ll always say ‘female basketball player’ like ‘Elena Delle Donne, female basketball player’, like ‘okay, you don’t need to say that, I’m a basketball player’. They don’t say ‘Kevin Durant, male basketball player’. So that’s something that kind of bugs me a little,” she says.


She doesn't want to be considered a female basketball player. She just wants to be considered a basketball player. And yet she wants lower rims for who, female basketball players? That's something that kind of bugs me a little.


I consider it "basketball", just plain "basketball", regardless of the size of the ball or the distance of the arc, or the length of a quarter, or even the height of the basket. To me the significance being given to this one detail is vastly overblown.

As I said above, if you think think it's so critical to be exactly the same game, then make it exactly the same game in all respects. Use the same equipment, follow the same rules, as the NBA. Picking out one difference and saying "all the other differences don't matter but you can't change this one detail" seems pretty arbitrary to me.


miller40



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PostPosted: 04/14/16 9:50 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Shades wrote:
Quote:
“The biggest examples (of sexism I encounter) I would say would be like, number one, when they talk about us basketball players they’ll always say ‘female basketball player’ like ‘Elena Delle Donne, female basketball player’, like ‘okay, you don’t need to say that, I’m a basketball player’. They don’t say ‘Kevin Durant, male basketball player’. So that’s something that kind of bugs me a little,” she says.


She doesn't want to be considered a female basketball player. She just wants to be considered a basketball player. And yet she wants lower rims for who, female basketball players? That's something that kind of bugs me a little.


I consider it "basketball", just plain "basketball", regardless of the size of the ball or the distance of the arc, or the length of a quarter, or even the height of the basket. To me the significance being given to this one detail is vastly overblown.

As I said above, if you think think it's so critical to be exactly the same game, then make it exactly the same game in all respects. Use the same equipment, follow the same rules, as the NBA. Picking out one difference and saying "all the other differences don't matter but you can't change this one detail" seems pretty arbitrary to me.


Or everyone could play by the international FIBA standards.


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PostPosted: 04/17/16 1:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Elena practicing a dunk last week;

https://twitter.com/De11eDonne


WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 06/15/17 5:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Sorry to revisit this thread , but imo this season has been a drag so far. No real exciting games down to the last minute or never before seen plays. Im still riding this "Lower the Rims" train. At least a 2 year experiment if this is such an "Entertainment League" Then i need to be entertained. This has been a referee show so far and its honestly boring to watch and that pains me to say being a 21 year Fan.



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