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Why WNBA MVP Elena Delle Donne wants to lower the rims
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pilight



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PostPosted: 03/17/16 1:26 pm    ::: Why WNBA MVP Elena Delle Donne wants to lower the rims Reply Reply with quote

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/03/elena-delle-donne-wnba-rims-lower-chicago-sky-mvp

Quote:
“I have Geno on my side,” Delle Donne said on Wednesday. “And I feel like having Geno Aurriema in your back pocket is always a great thing. If the greatest coach in the world believes we should do it, then we probably should do it.”



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PostPosted: 03/17/16 1:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

nope. still don't want them lowered. no thanks!



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PostPosted: 03/17/16 1:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Respectfully, I have to disagree with her. Besides the obvious logistical problems of not having adjustable rims on every court out there (leaving young girls practicing and playing on rims set at different heights), I disagree with her assumption about dunking.

While "they don't dunk" is an excuse I hear a lot from people who refuse to watch women's basketball, it is only an excuse. I find it highly unlikely that they would watch if women did dunk. They would find some other reason to not watch. And then after every accomplishment, or amazing play, there would always be that asterisk by it. "Well, of course they can do that, the rim is lower." We saw it when ESPN highlighted that EDD was the best free throw shooter in basketball, man or woman. People were falling all over themselves to point out that the ball is smaller.

There is no need to change the game. It just needs to continue to be grown as is, and let society catch up. It will not happen fast, but it will eventually happen. Steph Curry should be exhibit one about how dunking is overrated and how it is not necessary for people to find the game exciting.



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PostPosted: 03/17/16 6:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
Respectfully, I have to disagree with her. Besides the obvious logistical problems of not having adjustable rims on every court out there (leaving young girls practicing and playing on rims set at different heights), I disagree with her assumption about dunking.

While "they don't dunk" is an excuse I hear a lot from people who refuse to watch women's basketball, it is only an excuse. I find it highly unlikely that they would watch if women did dunk. They would find some other reason to not watch. And then after every accomplishment, or amazing play, there would always be that asterisk by it. "Well, of course they can do that, the rim is lower." We saw it when ESPN highlighted that EDD was the best free throw shooter in basketball, man or woman. People were falling all over themselves to point out that the ball is smaller.

There is no need to change the game. It just needs to continue to be grown as is, and let society catch up. It will not happen fast, but it will eventually happen. Steph Curry should be exhibit one about how dunking is overrated and how it is not necessary for people to find the game exciting.


x______________x

Have not read the view from EDD yet, however am certain I will still concur with justintyme. FYI, tend to be a huge fan of EDD (except when she is playing the Mercury).



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PostPosted: 03/17/16 7:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
From a visibility point of view, she has a point. Think about how many times Brittney Griner grabs headlines when she dunks

Headlines where though? Preaching to the choir doesn't expand anything.

Just my opinion, but I think people who dismiss the women's game and don't bother watching it are unlikely to have their opinions changed by lowering the standards. If you make "F" the new pass mark for an exam, are people really going to be impressed when you pass it?
So I guess I'm wondering does she want to do this to attract additional people to be fans of women's basketball, or does she think it would make the game better for those of us who already watch? To me it's inviting disrespect/mockery for very little potential gain. It also seems like female players get serious injuries at a disproportionately high rate even as it is, without trying to play above the rim, so that aspect concerns me too.



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PostPosted: 03/17/16 7:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
Respectfully, I have to disagree with her. Besides the obvious logistical problems of not having adjustable rims on every court out there (leaving young girls practicing and playing on rims set at different heights),


Equally respectfully, WHAT? lol. I think she was talking about lowering the rim in the WNBA. Not the world. Summer pro league in the US with 12 teams. Period. This has nothing at all to do with nor should or would it impact what young girls are doing anywhere at all and I'm sure they won't all find themselves somehow left practicing and playing on rims set at different heights.

The WNBA is the PERFECT candidate for this move. Go Elena and Geno. Wish the league would listen to two of the most important stars in the game.



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PostPosted: 03/17/16 7:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Just want to add that I like the fact that EDD is opening her mouth and saying things that get attention. Big thumbs up there.



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PostPosted: 03/17/16 7:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The whole objective of lowering the rims is to choose style over substance. The women's game is just fine without lowering the rims for the reasons stated in posts above.



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PostPosted: 03/17/16 7:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

One reason people watch sports is for the thrill of admiring the athletic prowess of the competitors.

Chucking a ball at a rim that's higher in relation to their physical stature than it is for men playing at all levels, even high school, impacts the way in which people perceive the athleticism of the woman and their appreciation for it and the sport itself.

I covered women's basketball in near empty arenas in the US and in sports crazy Brazil. The woman's game is NOT fine as a marketable spectator sport product. Not by a mile and the WNBA is running out of time to make every effort to kindle the interest of the public at large.



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PostPosted: 03/17/16 7:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
justintyme wrote:
Respectfully, I have to disagree with her. Besides the obvious logistical problems of not having adjustable rims on every court out there (leaving young girls practicing and playing on rims set at different heights),


Equally respectfully, WHAT? lol. I think she was talking about lowering the rim in the WNBA. Not the world. Summer pro league in the US with 12 teams. Period. This has nothing at all to do with nor should or would it impact what young girls are doing anywhere at all and I'm sure they won't all find themselves somehow left practicing and playing on rims set at different heights.
The WNBA is the PERFECT candidate for this move. Go Elena and Geno. Wish the league would listen to two of the most important stars in the game.

This issue with that is if girls are practicing on 10 foot rims at parks, gyms, etc. wherever they go, and even all throughout college, it's not an easy adjustment to all of the sudden try an play with lower rims. It's fine for layups, but it completely throws you off for jump shots. And if they go back overseas do they have to readjust to the 10 foot rims if they don't adopt this rule change? Sorry, it's just a bad idea. I also wanted to say I'm pretty sure the rims were set at 10 feet when the game was conceived to try and make it SOMEWHAT of a challenge to make a basket. It was most likely thought that most people playing the game would be of average male height, around 6 feet. So IMO if anything, they should actually RAISE the men's rim. But then we have the whole logistics issue with gyms and park rim height again. So just leave it at 10 across the board.



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PostPosted: 03/17/16 7:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
One reason people watch sports is for the thrill of admiring the athletic prowess of the competitors.

Chucking a ball at a rim that's higher in relation to their physical stature than it is for men playing at all levels, even high school, impacts the way in which people perceive the athleticism of the woman and their appreciation for it and the sport itself.

I covered women's basketball in near empty arenas in the US and in sports crazy Brazil. The woman's game is NOT fine as a marketable spectator sport product. Not by a mile and the WNBA is running out of time to make every effort to kindle the interest of the public at large.

Jammer, this is not going to change people's attitudes towards women's basketball. Don't kid yourself. Basketball is considered a male sport by many and women dunking at a lower height is not going to change that. The detractors are just going to say, "Big deal, it's only at 9 feet" or whatever. And even if women can dunk at a lower rim it's not going to look like the men's dunks. Look at Griner's dunks, they are just average dunks, noting spectacular or exciting like Blake Griffin or anything. The women's game is different and I think it needs to embrace what they are good at. The one thing I think they could do is play a more exciting style of basketball. More flair, no-looks, behind the back passes, skilled moves. Display the skills, since the athleticism will never be on par with the men.



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PostPosted: 03/17/16 8:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Jet Jaguar wrote:
jammerbirdi wrote:
One reason people watch sports is for the thrill of admiring the athletic prowess of the competitors.

Chucking a ball at a rim that's higher in relation to their physical stature than it is for men playing at all levels, even high school, impacts the way in which people perceive the athleticism of the woman and their appreciation for it and the sport itself.

I covered women's basketball in near empty arenas in the US and in sports crazy Brazil. The woman's game is NOT fine as a marketable spectator sport product. Not by a mile and the WNBA is running out of time to make every effort to kindle the interest of the public at large.

Jammer, this is not going to change people's attitudes towards women's basketball. Don't kid yourself. Basketball is considered a male sport by many and women dunking at a lower height is not going to change that. The detractors are just going to say, "Big deal, it's only at 9 feet" or whatever. And even if women can dunk at a lower rim it's not going to look like the men's dunks. Look at Griner's dunks, they are just average dunks, noting spectacular or exciting like Blake Griffin or anything. The women's game is different and I think it needs to embrace what they are good at. The one thing I think they could do is play a more exciting style of basketball. More flair, no-looks, behind the back passes, skilled moves. Display the skills, since the athleticism will never be on par with the men.


Well said, I agree.

At the same time though, I watch volleyball and like how the women's net is lower and so the game looks more like the men's version. That's volleyball though, a completely different sport which quite frankly would be painfully boring if you didn't have people spiking the ball over the net.



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PostPosted: 03/17/16 8:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Jet Jaguar wrote:
jammerbirdi wrote:
justintyme wrote:
Respectfully, I have to disagree with her. Besides the obvious logistical problems of not having adjustable rims on every court out there (leaving young girls practicing and playing on rims set at different heights),


Equally respectfully, WHAT? lol. I think she was talking about lowering the rim in the WNBA. Not the world. Summer pro league in the US with 12 teams. Period. This has nothing at all to do with nor should or would it impact what young girls are doing anywhere at all and I'm sure they won't all find themselves somehow left practicing and playing on rims set at different heights.
The WNBA is the PERFECT candidate for this move. Go Elena and Geno. Wish the league would listen to two of the most important stars in the game.

This issue with that is if girls are practicing on 10 foot rims at parks, gyms, etc. wherever they go, and even all throughout college, it's not an easy adjustment to all of the sudden try an play with lower rims. It's fine for layups, but it completely throws you off for jump shots. And if they go back overseas do they have to readjust to the 10 foot rims if they don't adopt this rule change? Sorry, it's just a bad idea. I also wanted to say I'm pretty sure the rims were set at 10 feet when the game was conceived to try and make it SOMEWHAT of a challenge to make a basket. It was most likely thought that most people playing the game would be of average male height, around 6 feet. So IMO if anything, they should actually RAISE the men's rim. But then we have the whole logistics issue with gyms and park rim height again. So just leave it at 10 across the board.

This is it, exactly. If you lower the rims it needs to be at all levels and in all leagues. This isn't like moving a 3 point line backwards or shortening the shot clock. Shooting on an 8 or 9 foot rim is entirely different from a 10 foot one. If anyone has access to an adjustable hoop they can experiment for themselves. Practice on one for a while, then switch to the other. See how it affects the shot.

Moving between the two is not a real option. Players' games will suffer in both places.

But that is just the logistics side of it. It doesn't make sense for other reasons too. Lowering the rims would only work if we truly believed that dunking is what is holding viewers back. I just don't see that being the case. There are many more factors at work here and dunking is just the excuse that some people use.



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PostPosted: 03/17/16 8:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FS02 wrote:
Jet Jaguar wrote:
jammerbirdi wrote:
One reason people watch sports is for the thrill of admiring the athletic prowess of the competitors.

Chucking a ball at a rim that's higher in relation to their physical stature than it is for men playing at all levels, even high school, impacts the way in which people perceive the athleticism of the woman and their appreciation for it and the sport itself.

I covered women's basketball in near empty arenas in the US and in sports crazy Brazil. The woman's game is NOT fine as a marketable spectator sport product. Not by a mile and the WNBA is running out of time to make every effort to kindle the interest of the public at large.

Jammer, this is not going to change people's attitudes towards women's basketball. Don't kid yourself. Basketball is considered a male sport by many and women dunking at a lower height is not going to change that. The detractors are just going to say, "Big deal, it's only at 9 feet" or whatever. And even if women can dunk at a lower rim it's not going to look like the men's dunks. Look at Griner's dunks, they are just average dunks, noting spectacular or exciting like Blake Griffin or anything. The women's game is different and I think it needs to embrace what they are good at. The one thing I think they could do is play a more exciting style of basketball. More flair, no-looks, behind the back passes, skilled moves. Display the skills, since the athleticism will never be on par with the men.


Well said, I agree.

At the same time though, I watch volleyball and like how the women's net is lower and so the game looks more like the men's version. That's volleyball though, a completely different sport which quite frankly would be painfully boring if you didn't have people spiking the ball over the net.

The spike is a fundamental necessity in volleyball. Players are too good to be able to score without it. All you would have is never ending volleys returned. If dunking were the only way to score points in basketball, then lowering the rims would make sense.

Not to mention, it takes all of 30 seconds to change the height of a volleyball net since almost all nets are designed to be adjustable.



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PostPosted: 03/17/16 8:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Jet Jaguar wrote:
jammerbirdi wrote:
justintyme wrote:
Respectfully, I have to disagree with her. Besides the obvious logistical problems of not having adjustable rims on every court out there (leaving young girls practicing and playing on rims set at different heights),


Equally respectfully, WHAT? lol. I think she was talking about lowering the rim in the WNBA. Not the world. Summer pro league in the US with 12 teams. Period. This has nothing at all to do with nor should or would it impact what young girls are doing anywhere at all and I'm sure they won't all find themselves somehow left practicing and playing on rims set at different heights.
The WNBA is the PERFECT candidate for this move. Go Elena and Geno. Wish the league would listen to two of the most important stars in the game.

This issue with that is if girls are practicing on 10 foot rims at parks, gyms, etc. wherever they go, and even all throughout college, it's not an easy adjustment to all of the sudden try an play with lower rims. It's fine for layups, but it completely throws you off for jump shots. And if they go back overseas do they have to readjust to the 10 foot rims if they don't adopt this rule change? Sorry, it's just a bad idea. I also wanted to say I'm pretty sure the rims were set at 10 feet when the game was conceived to try and make it SOMEWHAT of a challenge to make a basket. It was most likely thought that most people playing the game would be of average male height, around 6 feet. So IMO if anything, they should actually RAISE the men's rim. But then we have the whole logistics issue with gyms and park rim height again. So just leave it at 10 across the board.


When basketball was created the peach baskets were nailed to the hanging track above the court, there wasn't any thought put into the height and how it would affect the participates in the game, and back in the 1891 was the average male height 6'0 or was it shorter, I'd assume it was shorter. And the sport of basketball has evolved a lot since it was first invented, so it's not like the sport has been the same since the very beginning and now people want to change this one thing, there are a lot of things that have been changed, including dribbling, the 3 point shot, and the game is a lot more physical than it was intended to be.



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PostPosted: 03/17/16 8:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Dunking just doesn't impress me all that much, it's not hard to do if you can jump high enough. Almost every sport I can think of has some play that takes 10x more skill and finesse than that.



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PostPosted: 03/17/16 8:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't agree with her either, but when the MVP speaks it bears further discussion.



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PostPosted: 03/17/16 9:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
Lowering the rims would only work if we truly believed that dunking is what is holding viewers back.


I would have to raise my hand at saying that there is no one remotely associated with the sport of women's basketball who has made the the case for lowering the rim more, longer, and more effectively than I have. Geno and EDD are newcomers to the issue. I ain't no such thing.

And as that advocate for this change - that I claim for myself Wink I have said many times that it isn't about the dunk or dunking. So right off the bat, I dispute your claim as that being the only reason why this might be done. That's not correct and has never been the motivating factor coming from me.



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PostPosted: 03/17/16 10:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
nope. still don't want them lowered. no thanks!

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PostPosted: 03/17/16 10:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The heart of resistance to women's basketball in the U.S. isn't the fact that many NBA players can dunk while few WNBA players can. It's sexism, misogyny, racism, and homophobia, often intertwined. I'm with all those who've made many valuable points above about why this "solution" is completely bogus.



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PostPosted: 03/17/16 10:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Genero36 wrote:
The whole objective of lowering the rims is to choose style over substance.

That is true, but I don't think that on its own is a valid reason not to do it.
For a league that is still trying to be accepted by the public as a viable entertainment product, style over substance is something that should be considered.
I still lean away from the idea, but not for this reason.
eg. Having a shot clock down at 24 seconds is style over substance too, but I think the pros of it's added game watchability outweigh the cons to the integrity of the sport.



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PostPosted: 03/17/16 11:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

In 2005 WNBA ESPN ratings were 282,000 viewers. In 2015 they were 202,000. In 2005 WNBA attendance averaged 8,172. In 2015 WNBA attendance was the lowest in it's history - 7,318. It's not just about getting new fans, they ought to try lowering the rim to see if they can get back the fans they lost.

You don't need movable rims all over the place if you just make it a WNBA thing.


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PostPosted: 03/18/16 7:04 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't want the rims lowered either. First of all, the people who complain there is not dunking will just say "well - they lowered the rim. Its even more lame than before." They won't be impressed. Second - to recreate dunking the way it appears in the NBA or college men's games they would probably have to lower the rim to 9 feet or less. In the NBA most players even guys 6'1" or so can dunk easily with they make it look spectacular. Griner can barely dunk at 6-8. Lowering the rim 7 inches will probably mean that women 6'1 or so can bare dunk. To make it easy for them you need to go even lower.


Finally, I don't know, but I'm wording if lowering the rim will even work. To dunk well it has to be one handed. Do the the majority of WNBA players have hands big enough to palm the ball easily?


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PostPosted: 03/18/16 8:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
In 2005 WNBA ESPN ratings were 282,000 viewers. In 2015 they were 202,000. In 2005 WNBA attendance averaged 8,172. In 2015 WNBA attendance was the lowest in it's history - 7,318. It's not just about getting new fans, they ought to try lowering the rim to see if they can get back the fans they lost.

You don't need movable rims all over the place if you just make it a WNBA thing.


So you want to introduce dunking and phase out jump shots? Because making only one league out of HS, NCAA, and international basketball play on a rim at a different height will do that.


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PostPosted: 03/18/16 8:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I am not in favor of the rim being lowered. If that is done, that move will be further argument from the people, who do not like the WNBA, that the WNBA is an inferior product. Keep the rim where it is!


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