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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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 Posted: 12/15/15 11:12 am ::: |
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| McGuff outsmarted himself. He was hoping to catch the better teams off guard by playing them early, like Stanford did to UConn last year. But it was his team that abysmally unprepared. I'm thinking McGuff is a good recruiter and not so great coach.
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bucks4now
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| Posted: 12/15/15 11:42 am ::: |
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| Most agree that playing at home is an advantage. I didn't take it as any way an analysis of the games themselves.
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dtsnms
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 12/15/15 12:22 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| McGuff outsmarted himself. He was hoping to catch the better teams off guard by playing them early, like Stanford did to UConn last year. But it was his team that abysmally unprepared. I'm thinking McGuff is a good recruiter and not so great coach. |
What a total load of crap Shades! You're usually pretty good, but way off here.
If you listened to McGuff on the podcast, he DID NOT want to play those teams then but that was the only schedule that fit, and it was important to him to play SC and UConn.
He's clearly a crappy coach; look at his Xavier teams and then last year's OSU team.
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Shades
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| Posted: 12/15/15 1:56 pm ::: |
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It's called an opinion, Dave. Aren't you the guy that says opinions can never be wrong, or does that brand of logic only apply towards Swoopes? http://boards.rebkell.net/viewtopic.php?t=85857&start=13
Therefore, I should have the right to give an opinion without it being called a "total load of crap". We're not allowed to call each others posts "ignorant" but "load of crap" is okay? Aren't there some kind guidelines against that sort of thing, but I suppose you're allowed to skirt those because of what you do.
It's inaccurate to say I called McGuff a crappy coach. I said "not so great", not in the same breath as other coaches of top teams.... not yet, anyway. I'm willing to give him more time. I'm not saying he should be ejected. Calm down.
I can be more impartial because my assessments aren't based on whether or not a person gives me an interview.
I remember Xavier very well. Had my eye on Harris as a prospect. He had an unusally nice collection of players at Xavier. I give him huge props as a recruiter. And when his first round draft picks graduated, he knew he had to get out of Dodge quick. After Xavier's tournament run, he said "I failed to put this team in a position to win." So he was saying that he could have done a better job of coaching that last game. I respect that opinion.
McGuff is an opportunist, and at this time a better salesman than coach. People say the same sort of thing about McCallie. It's not exactly a scathing opinion. If he's a good coach, he wouldn't lose to UConn by 50 with the talent he has. He wouldn't lose close games to the second tier teams. I'm actually rooting for OSU to represent the Big Ten, so I'm hoping McGuff gets better quick. They've been a disappointment so far.
I'm interested in what he said about the scheduling. Do you have a transcript? Did he say whatever it was after he got pounded by UConn or before? Either way, it's not a huge part of the argument about McGuff's coaching acumen.
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Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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bucks4now
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dtsnms
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 12/15/15 4:44 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
It's called an opinion, Dave. Aren't you the guy that says opinions can never be wrong, or does that brand of logic only apply towards Swoopes? http://boards.rebkell.net/viewtopic.php?t=85857&start=13
Therefore, I should have the right to give an opinion without it being called a "total load of crap". We're not allowed to call each others posts "ignorant" but "load of crap" is okay? Aren't there some kind guidelines against that sort of thing, but I suppose you're allowed to skirt those because of what you do.
It's inaccurate to say I called McGuff a crappy coach. I said "not so great", not in the same breath as other coaches of top teams.... not yet, anyway. I'm willing to give him more time. I'm not saying he should be ejected. Calm down.
I can be more impartial because my assessments aren't based on whether or not a person gives me an interview.
I remember Xavier very well. Had my eye on Harris as a prospect. He had an unusally nice collection of players at Xavier. I give him huge props as a recruiter. And when his first round draft picks graduated, he knew he had to get out of Dodge quick. After Xavier's tournament run, he said "I failed to put this team in a position to win." So he was saying that he could have done a better job of coaching that last game. I respect that opinion.
McGuff is an opportunist, and at this time a better salesman than coach. People say the same sort of thing about McCallie. It's not exactly a scathing opinion. If he's a good coach, he wouldn't lose to UConn by 50 with the talent he has. He wouldn't lose close games to the second tier teams. I'm actually rooting for OSU to represent the Big Ten, so I'm hoping McGuff gets better quick. They've been a disappointment so far.
I'm interested in what he said about the scheduling. Do you have a transcript? Did he say whatever it was after he got pounded by UConn or before? Either way, it's not a huge part of the argument about McGuff's coaching acumen. |
deleted, not worth it....
Last edited by dtsnms on 12/15/15 4:50 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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dtsnms
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 12/15/15 4:48 pm ::: |
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Thanks for posting bucks4now
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 9628
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| Posted: 12/15/15 7:09 pm ::: Re: Ohio State as a measuring stick |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| tfan wrote: |
The top 3 teams in the polls are
1) UConn
2) South Carolina
3) Notre Dame
They have a common opponent in Ohio State, although UConn had the disadvantage of playing them at Ohio State, while South Carolina and Notre Dame got to play them at home. The results:
UConn 100 OSU 56
USC 88 OSU 80
ND 75 OSU 72 |
Notably absent is that UConn and SCar played OhSt at full strength while ND was missing its two main post players.
So if you actually wanted equivalent you'd have to guess the outcome if UConn had played the game without Stewart and Tuck, and SCar had played without Wilson and Coates.
Which is a hell of a lot bigger "disadvantage" than where the game was played. |
It has been announced that Taya Reimer is off the team for the year so it is misleading to talk about two players missing as if Notre Dame will have them both playing in later games.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
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| Posted: 12/15/15 9:14 pm ::: Re: Ohio State as a measuring stick |
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| tfan wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| tfan wrote: |
The top 3 teams in the polls are
1) UConn
2) South Carolina
3) Notre Dame
They have a common opponent in Ohio State, although UConn had the disadvantage of playing them at Ohio State, while South Carolina and Notre Dame got to play them at home. The results:
UConn 100 OSU 56
USC 88 OSU 80
ND 75 OSU 72 |
Notably absent is that UConn and SCar played OhSt at full strength while ND was missing its two main post players.
So if you actually wanted equivalent you'd have to guess the outcome if UConn had played the game without Stewart and Tuck, and SCar had played without Wilson and Coates.
Which is a hell of a lot bigger "disadvantage" than where the game was played. |
It has been announced that Taya Reimer is off the team for the year so it is misleading to talk about two players missing as if Notre Dame will have them both playing in later games. |
At the time she was considered a starter out temporarily. What I wrote is entirely correct. And the ACC preseason player of the year was also out regardless (which even in your reply you still try to ignore I see). So the only thing "misleading" was your bogus "measuring stick".
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Conway Gamecock
Joined: 23 Jan 2015
Posts: 1900
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| Posted: 12/15/15 11:15 pm ::: |
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As the saying goes, sometimes you win by the 3, and sometimes you lose by the 3....
versus South Carolina:
10-23 3-pt FG (43.5%)
Mitchell: 36 pts
Alston: 23 pts
versus Notre Dame:
4-12 3-pt FG (33.3%) *-they did shoot 26-48 (54.2%) from inside the arc
Mitchell: 27 pts
Alston: 13 pts
versus UConn:
3-19 3-pt FG (15.8%)
Mitchell: 8 pts
Alston: 7 pts
The dynamic duo didn't show up on their own floor versus UConn. Had they chose to not show up for USC or ND, the scores probably would've been the same for those games....
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cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 12851
Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
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| Posted: 12/15/15 11:38 pm ::: Re: Ohio State as a measuring stick |
Reply |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| tfan wrote: |
The top 3 teams in the polls are
1) UConn
2) South Carolina
3) Notre Dame
They have a common opponent in Ohio State, although UConn had the disadvantage of playing them at Ohio State, while South Carolina and Notre Dame got to play them at home. The results:
UConn 100 OSU 56
USC 88 OSU 80
ND 75 OSU 72 |
Notably absent is that UConn and SCar played OhSt at full strength while ND was missing its two main post players.
So if you actually wanted equivalent you'd have to guess the outcome if UConn had played the game without Stewart and Tuck, and SCar had played without Wilson and Coates.
Which is a hell of a lot bigger "disadvantage" than where the game was played. |
Wrong, and wrong again.
UConn hasn't been at full strength this season, and has yet to have who may well be their best rebounder/interior defender on the court.
Stewart/Tuck > Turner/Reimer, by more than a little.
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bacabuck
Joined: 28 May 2009
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| Posted: 12/15/15 11:51 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| McGuff outsmarted himself. He was hoping to catch the better teams off guard by playing them early, like Stanford did to UConn last year. But it was his team that abysmally unprepared. I'm thinking McGuff is a good recruiter and not so great coach. |
When I read "outsmarted himself", "abysmally unprepared", and "not so great coach." I have to believe that you are not totally impressed with his coaching acumen. You may be right, but I think that will only come clear in the fullness of time...........Your calling him a "good recruiter", however, is a classic example of damming by faint praise. If you go objectively through the basketball merits of these six young women, I think you may find it difficult (or impossible) to find a more talented incoming class in the history of the women's game. (My opinion, but I would like yours).
Sierra Calhoun, Stephanie Mavunga, Linnae Harper, Tori McCoy, Kiara Lewis, and Jensen Caretti.
Now I know, from reading this board, that you are very knowledgeable about these young ladies, and thorough in your research if you are not familiar with them, so I am sure you will be objective.........If you choose to respond at all.
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: 12/16/15 4:02 am ::: Re: Ohio State as a measuring stick |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
At the time she was considered a starter out temporarily. What I wrote is entirely correct. And the ACC preseason player of the year was also out regardless (which even in your reply you still try to ignore I see). So the only thing "misleading" was your bogus "measuring stick". |
You made it sound like Notre Dame will have two players back later in the year. They won't. They'll only have one. You could have at least added "although now Reimer is gone for the year so we were really only down one player from what we will have this season". And there were 3 teams involved. It shows how much better UConn is than South Carolina. Missing their star post did hurt Notre Dame. And itt would be nice if she can take Notre Dame up to UConn's level when she returns, but I wouldn't count on it.
Last edited by tfan on 12/16/15 8:19 am; edited 3 times in total |
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~UK~
Joined: 24 Oct 2006
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| Posted: 12/16/15 6:33 am ::: |
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| bacabuck wrote: |
| Shades wrote: |
| McGuff outsmarted himself. He was hoping to catch the better teams off guard by playing them early, like Stanford did to UConn last year. But it was his team that abysmally unprepared. I'm thinking McGuff is a good recruiter and not so great coach. |
When I read "outsmarted himself", "abysmally unprepared", and "not so great coach." I have to believe that you are not totally impressed with his coaching acumen. You may be right, but I think that will only come clear in the fullness of time...........Your calling him a "good recruiter", however, is a classic example of damming by faint praise. If you go objectively through the basketball merits of these six young women, I think you may find it difficult (or impossible) to find a more talented incoming class in the history of the women's game. (My opinion, but I would like yours).
Sierra Calhoun, Stephanie Mavunga, Linnae Harper, Tori McCoy, Kiara Lewis, and Jensen Caretti.
Now I know, from reading this board, that you are very knowledgeable about these young ladies, and thorough in your research if you are not familiar with them, so I am sure you will be objective.........If you choose to respond at all. |
Sometimes a coach plays less of a role in recruiting than players.  Diamond DeShields convinced a group of players to go to North Carolina. Players fall into a coaches lap because a group decides to go to the same school.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 12/16/15 9:45 am ::: Re: Ohio State as a measuring stick |
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| tfan wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
At the time she was considered a starter out temporarily. What I wrote is entirely correct. And the ACC preseason player of the year was also out regardless (which even in your reply you still try to ignore I see). So the only thing "misleading" was your bogus "measuring stick". |
You made it sound like Notre Dame will have two players back later in the year. They won't. They'll only have one. You could have at least added "although now Reimer is gone for the year so we were really only down one player from what we will have this season". And there were 3 teams involved. It shows how much better UConn is than South Carolina. Missing their star post did hurt Notre Dame. And itt would be nice if she can take Notre Dame up to UConn's level when she returns, but I wouldn't count on it. |
Reading is fundamental. I made absolutely no allusion to "later in the year." Nor was the future relevant to your post.
Maybe you should have followed your own advice and "at least added" obviously critical information.
Of course, considering how meaningless comparative scores are, it really wouldn't have helped your "point".
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 9628
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| Posted: 12/16/15 10:20 am ::: Re: Ohio State as a measuring stick |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| tfan wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
At the time she was considered a starter out temporarily. What I wrote is entirely correct. And the ACC preseason player of the year was also out regardless (which even in your reply you still try to ignore I see). So the only thing "misleading" was your bogus "measuring stick". |
You made it sound like Notre Dame will have two players back later in the year. They won't. They'll only have one. You could have at least added "although now Reimer is gone for the year so we were really only down one player from what we will have this season". And there were 3 teams involved. It shows how much better UConn is than South Carolina. Missing their star post did hurt Notre Dame. And itt would be nice if she can take Notre Dame up to UConn's level when she returns, but I wouldn't count on it. |
Reading is fundamental. I made absolutely no allusion to "later in the year." Nor was the future relevant to your post. |
It was certainly relevant to your post. You were trying to make the case for a depleted Notre Dame not being compared based on that game. But any depletion is only relevant if they will be back. Talking about a missing player done for the season is no more relevant than if you had said "Notre Dame was missing Jewell Loyd who would have been a senior this year so keep that in mind". Loyd isn't gonna play this year and neither is Reimer (at least that is the word now).
| Quote: |
Maybe you should have followed your own advice and "at least added" obviously critical information. |
I should have said "I don't know if there are injuries involved".
| Quote: |
Of course, considering how meaningless comparative scores are, it really wouldn't have helped your "point". |
Your aggressive defense of Notre Dames' performance suggests otherwise.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
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bacabuck
Joined: 28 May 2009
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| Posted: 12/16/15 11:00 am ::: |
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| ~UK~ wrote: |
| bacabuck wrote: |
| Shades wrote: |
| McGuff outsmarted himself. He was hoping to catch the better teams off guard by playing them early, like Stanford did to UConn last year. But it was his team that abysmally unprepared. I'm thinking McGuff is a good recruiter and not so great coach. |
When I read "outsmarted himself", "abysmally unprepared", and "not so great coach." I have to believe that you are not totally impressed with his coaching acumen. You may be right, but I think that will only come clear in the fullness of time...........Your calling him a "good recruiter", however, is a classic example of damming by faint praise. If you go objectively through the basketball merits of these six young women, I think you may find it difficult (or impossible) to find a more talented incoming class in the history of the women's game. (My opinion, but I would like yours).
Sierra Calhoun, Stephanie Mavunga, Linnae Harper, Tori McCoy, Kiara Lewis, and Jensen Caretti.
Now I know, from reading this board, that you are very knowledgeable about these young ladies, and thorough in your research if you are not familiar with them, so I am sure you will be objective.........If you choose to respond at all. |
Sometimes a coach plays less of a role in recruiting than players. Diamond DeShields convinced a group of players to go to North Carolina. Players fall into a coaches lap because a group decides to go to the same school. |
Delightful observation UK.............Both VERY funny and VERY true, at the same time!
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Phil
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 12/16/15 11:33 am ::: |
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| "Meaningless"? You won't get any argument from me if you contend that comparative scores can be misleading and did not tell the whole story. We all can cite examples of comparative scores which don't come close to accurately measuring the strength of a team. Some people may even remember the delightful anecdote proving that Slippery Rock was the best football team in the country. But you go too far to say they are meaningless. That suggests there is absolutely zero value in looking at comparative scores. Nonsense. It's a metric imperfect to be sure but so are all the other options. Even head-to-head can be flawed. Let's not throw out the baby with the bath.
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bucks4now
Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Posts: 723
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| Posted: 12/16/15 12:48 pm ::: |
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| I always thought that you play with the players that you have on that day? If for some reason OSU plays any of them again, then we can compare.
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bacabuck
Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 245
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| Posted: 12/16/15 1:50 pm ::: |
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| bucks4now wrote: |
| I always thought that you play with the players that you have on that day? If for some reason OSU plays any of them again, then we can compare. |
Yes, I agree, that is the normal standard that I use also. Evidently, however, the new standard is that it is ok to complain about a loss, (or even a close win), if for any reason your best players aren't in the game.
I like it because now we can say that if we had played Mavunga, and Calhoun, we would probably have won............Oh yes, and now we can add Harper.
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