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Cher...A Republican?

 
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Genero36



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PostPosted: 04/15/19 6:18 pm    ::: Cher...A Republican? Reply Reply with quote





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Genero36



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PostPosted: 04/15/19 6:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote






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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 04/16/19 3:02 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don’t know why anyone would label her a Republican. I’m a Democrat and I’ve been saying the same things for years. Listen, this is inevitable. More and more you’re going to hear people speaking the heretofore largely unspoken and even forbidden truths that become obvious and irrefutable to people living in California. Telling the truth doesn’t make one a Republican. In this case, it just makes you a person who is willing to face the many ramifications and consequences of speaking truth to power. So congrats to Cher for speaking out way way against the most powerful people and on their most important political issue regarding their most prized and valuable assets: their servants and manual labor force coming in from south of the border.



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justintyme



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: 04/16/19 4:17 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Because it is a false dichotomy (and a red herring)....

We can do things to help those people regardless of our immigration policy. In fact, our immigration policy has about 0 impact on that. The reality is we opt to spend money elsewhere (like on $700 billion defense budgets, for one obvious example) and not on social welfare programs.

The simple truth is we could choose to do any one of these things:

1)Close our borders and take care of all of our citizen's needs

2)Keep the Status Quo with our immigration policy and take care of all our citizen's needs

3) Close our borders and do nothing to help our citizens

4)Keep the Statis Quo all around

The fact that all of these are interchangeable possibilities should demonstrate clearly that one has absolutely nothing to do with the other. There are plenty of legitimate arguments to be made for immigration reform that reasoned people can debate the merits of. Cher's argument isn't one of them, though it is a popular one among the nationalist wing of the GOP.



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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 04/16/19 8:00 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Oh. You mean in that perfect world that will never happen. You know, the one in which our government does all the right things. For everybody. And to think otherwise makes you a nationalist Republican like, you know, Cher.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 04/16/19 8:31 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
I don’t know why anyone would label her a Republican


She's deviated from the orthodoxy of the party, therefore she must be the enemy.



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justintyme



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PostPosted: 04/16/19 12:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
jammerbirdi wrote:
I don’t know why anyone would label her a Republican


She's deviated from the orthodoxy of the party, therefore she must be the enemy.

The people calling her a Republican are....Republicans....

I know next to nothing about Cher's views on any subject other than this one. Nor do I really care. All that happened here was that at least on this one subject she mirrored one of the GOPs favorite sounds-good-but-ultimately-empty-of-substance talking points on immigration and a bunch of them retweeted her because of it.



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justintyme



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PostPosted: 04/16/19 12:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
Oh. You mean in that perfect world that will never happen. You know, the one in which our government does all the right things. For everybody. And to think otherwise makes you a nationalist Republican like, you know, Cher.

I suspect you were being intentionally disingenuous? Because I clearly was not calling Cher a nationalist Republican.

Nor does my point have anything to do with the government "doing the right thing". My point was simply that two issues that have 0 relation to each other (or immigration laws and the state of our social welfare programs) were being thrown together as if they were intrinsically interlinked. The point about the nationalism wasn't that Cher was one, it was that she stumbled into the den of the "Murica First" crowd, who then ejaculated all over themselves in their race to retweet her.



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PUmatty



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PostPosted: 04/16/19 1:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
jammerbirdi wrote:
I don’t know why anyone would label her a Republican


She's deviated from the orthodoxy of the party, therefore she must be the enemy.


Except that's not what you see in these postings. There is not one example on this page of Democrats calling her the enemy - or even saying she is a Republican.

Everyone one of these tweets is from a Republican.


cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 04/16/19 1:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Well said, jit and PUmatty.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 04/16/19 4:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

None of it makes sense. Republicans are not against ILLEGAL immigration or infinite immigration policy. McConnell and Ryan refused to fund a wall and the one Republican out of 17 who made ILLEGAL immigration an issue hasn't done one thing to punish employers who hire ILLEGAL workers, nor has he ever even mentioned it. You can hire as many ILLEGAL workers under Trump as you did under previous administrations.

Republicans are not "help poor Americans first before helping Central America" - both parties happily waved goodbye to millions of jobs as they went over to China once China joined the WTO (not to mention all the jobs that started elsewhere like the iPhone or went to Mexico and other countries with cheaper labor). Both parties support worker import and job export. The difference between Republicans and Democrats these days is that the Democrats still have to posture to want to help the poor. But even then, it is very limited. I have heard many Democrats (including Sanders and Clinton in 2016) give speeches and they will say "middle class", not "middle and lower class" which would be appropriate in the context.


Genero36



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PostPosted: 04/16/19 8:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote




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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 04/16/19 10:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So that all ricocheted predictably.

My first comment was in part responding to the Cher a Republican? question posed in the title of the thread. That was the question. I did not read the many tweets. Only the tweet by Cher. Cher’s right, more on that later. And most of my post is voicing my agreement with the thrust of Cher’s tweet. Been there for years and I don’t care that holding those kinds of opinions places a person alongside Republicans or nationalist or whomever or whatever demonry progressives must attach to any such thinking.

And let’s make no mistake here, justin, that’s exactly what you did in saying that Cher’s argument is not ‘legitimate’ but is “popular among the nationalist wing of the GOP” and that Cher “mirrored one of the GOPs favorite sounds-good-but-ultimately-empty-of-substance talking points.” And oh, let’s not forget this one, that Cher “stumbled into the den of the “Murica First” crowd’, who ejaculated. Americans do love a happy ending.

But no, like Marc Antony’s insistence that Brutus is an honorable man, you clearly weren’t actually calling Cher a nationalist Republican.

For my part, I’ve said for years that the thing I hate most in politics is when the other side is right and when my side is wrong. I live with that feeling a lot these days and I’m not alone.

My second comment was a sarcastic reply to a couple of things in justin's response to my first comment.

One is his sentiment that we can choose to do any or all of the right things. The harsh sarcasm is warranted because of my belief that rises to a lifelong endlessly reinforced immovable object of an understanding that WE WILL DO NOTHING on his list or mine that would represent just and right solutions to any of these issues. And whatever the powers that be do decide upon will not even be driven or motivated by the will to seek benevolent solutions to chronic problems.

Unless we clone Mayor Pete and succeed in electing Mayor Pete to every seat in the House in 2020. And then elect all Mayor Petes to the senate over the next half dozen years. We’re going to need a Mayor Pete as president but we’ve got that one lined up and ready to go. Going to have to be patient a little while longer till we can change the makeup of the SCOTUS to all Mayor Petes.

But until then, we’re not going to help our own people living in the streets, rotting in the inner cities, or struggling in the many depressed but once thriving areas of the country. Cher nailed it. How can we handle more if we can’t help the desperate people on our streets now? The answer is ‘Shut up, Cher.’ We can’t and won’t do anything ever for anyone unless there is a huge upside for the most wealthy and important among us and no one living in a 3 million dollar plus home let alone a 20 million dollar plus mansion other than Cher apparently is even concerning herself with such nonsense. And they never will. Because that’s not the point. And nothing will ever get done. Because that is the point.

Wake up. You’re living in a dream world. I, however, am living in one of the two greatest human cruelty factories this country has allowed to exist in the last 50 years. Yes, we’ve seen and done worse in earlier times. But this time we have unprecedented misery happening alongside unprecedented affluence and the disregard one has for the other is evident by the fact that the problem grows more dire every single day while the number of Bentleys and 20 plus million dollar homes and those who can afford all of it also continues to grow and multiply every single day and the only thing that matters to the rich and powerful is that we don’t dare slow down the endless supply chain of their servants that make their lives and existence so comfortable.

And if getting every bleeding heart liberal progressive Democratic soul out there emotionally invested in their efforts to keep the servants freely coming across the border no matter what then, judging by opinions here and across the board in the Democratic Party, they obviously have succeeded mightily in their efforts.



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Luuuc



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PostPosted: 04/16/19 11:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Whether immigration increases, decreases, or completely ceases, it seems to me that the rapidly-growing below-the-poverty-line population will continue to be neglected anyway. So I get why jit implies that the two issues are mutually exclusive. In theory there are limited resources to allocate, but in reality that doesn't enter the equation anyway.

As kind of an aside, are people who are willing to uproot their families' lives and move to the USA for better ones, the type of people likely to end up living on the streets? I have no idea what the statistics say about it, but gut feeling tells me they're probably not the prime candidates for that outcome.

FWIW I applaud the sentiment of taking care of your own. I wish this country did the same. Our homeless problem is not the same magnitude but there still is one, and it's shameful IMO.



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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 04/17/19 12:45 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I've had a lot of stuff I've wanted to post on and discuss but I've got to stick a pin in all of it for a few weeks. On this topic, sort of, at least on the situation at the border, which I am not any kind of an authority on, I would say the world turned on its axis last week. But if you missed it and don't know what I'm talking about you'll have to wait for a while.



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Falsehood will fly on the wings of the wind, and carry its tales to every corner of the earth; whilst truth lags behind; her steps slow and solemn, she has neither the vigour nor activity to overtake her enemy. - Thomas Francklin
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