RebKell's Junkie Boards

[toad455]

[Happycappie25]

[toad455]

[Bob Lamm]

Moved my comment to a different discussion.

_________________
Remember Roe v. Wade. Work for and support legal abortion all over the world and full reproductive rights for everyone.

[toad455]

Liberty Players’ Childhood Bond Outlasts the Story of Their Rivalry

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/24/sports/basketball/new-york-liberty-tina-charles-epiphanny-prince.html?smid=tw-share&_r=2

_________________
LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!

Twitter: @TBRBWAY

[Bob Lamm]

Just back from our final game of the season. Very sad to see (on the big screen) Swin Cash walking off at the end in tears.

I'm going to repeat something I said a week or two ago, something a few people disagreed with. Tonight's game underscores a bitter truth for me: we will not win a championship in 2017 with our current roster. Although there were certainly mitigating factors (late injuries) both years, it's hard to ignore the fact that two Liberty teams that had strong regular seasons lost elimination playoff games at home.

I like our current players. I'm not going to disparage any of them. But I view the roster as one star and a bunch of very good or potentially very good players. I don't see another potential star on our roster. It's very hard to win a basketball championship with one star. And especially when that star is a post player who can't control the ball most of the time.

Perhaps Trader Bill and/or whoever is making roster moves won't be able to radically transform our roster for 2017. Perhaps the Liberty will have to stand pat. But I believe that we shouldn't stand pat unless there really aren't good options.

_________________
Remember Roe v. Wade. Work for and support legal abortion all over the world and full reproductive rights for everyone.

[toad455]

Danielle Robinson or Faulkner for our 2018 first round pick. We will not progress any further with Boyd as our PG. Zahui B & Stokes need to improve as well. It wasn't a good night when we're looking at Swords as an offensive threat.

_________________
LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!

Twitter: @TBRBWAY

[Queenie]

Yes, let's throw Brittany Boyd under the bus at the end of her second year, when it seems like half the league and especially the Liberty's first-round picks blossom in their third year, this is a brilliant plan that will surely not end badly. She's not Toni Young, FFS. And yes, let's leave ourselves out of the first round two years in a row by trading first-round picks for rotation players, especially when we're panicking about point guards, because that worked so well in 2001 and 2002.

Maybe Spoon should be spending some of that quality time with Boyd that she was spending with Sugar. Maybe Bec needs to figure out how defense, or defence, works. Maybe Amanda can stop trying to play hockey and do something on defense other than get grabby. Maybe we need to figure out whether we want a point guard or whatever in hell a lead guard is. Maybe Bill needs to go fishing already, and take Katie with him. Maybe we need to look at health and training.

We definitely need to retool for 2017. We know Swin's leaving; I wouldn't be surprised if Tanisha or Shavonte moved on either. We need to keep getting younger.

_________________
Ardent believer in the separation of church and stadium.

[Happycappie25]

[root_thing]

Grinding out close wins may work for awhile during the regular season, but it catches up with you sooner or later. You can't always outwork other people and hope to overachieve. If you want a championship, at some point you actually have to be better than the other team. Your A game has to be better than their A game. I believe this coaching staff needs to re-evaluate their approach. Laimbeer is fond of saying that the team can't or shouldn't do something "because that's not who we are." For instance, in one interview he said something like, "We should probably play more ball denial against Delle Donne, but that's not who we are." Well, if that's the best way to win, then maybe that's who you should become or at least have the flexibility to play that way sometimes. The Liberty just look very predictable to me. Other teams can adjust to us because we do the same things all the time. I sense rigidity in the coaching staff, and I wonder if they're not stuck in the early 2000's.

Anyway, no team is out there waiting to hand over a superstar player to you. Unless there's a disgruntled star we don't know about, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for some big trade. The Liberty need to develop high-quality players of their own. Very few championship teams are built without home-grown stars... or at least someone you picked up cheap and developed yourself. Count Rodgers as one starter or future sixth man. Now we need to see some more.

[Bob Lamm]

[Luuuc]

I still think the team has done well with what it has. All those late season injuries really screwed with the momentum at exactly the wrong time.
The Fever proved that a title can be won with a single star player, but of course it's not the norm.
It's just not that easy to find perfect fits for areas of need. NY is far from alone in that department.

_________________
Thanks for calling. I wait all night for calls like these.

[NYL_WNBA_FAN]

Just keeping in mind that the team gave up 100 points last night also. We shot like 51% last night or something like that. I do think it's difficult to grind out wins though. But, we were also playing with Prince nowhere near 100% and with Stokes a non-factor. That hurt our ability to create shots, defend and rebound. As a team built on defense and rebounding, that's just not going to get you wins that often.

I don't think the Liberty need a second star as much as they need offensive balance. The Detroit NBA teams that Laimbeer played on had it, and the way the offense is structured to move the ball through post players, it would be a better team with more balance. The Detroit Shock won games with one main offensive player a lot of the time, but with exceptional balance.

In this offense you can pencil in Piph for 15 a game and mid 40's shooting when she's 100% again. What will be interesting moving forward is if Piph and Rodgers wind up playing together. If yes, there probably won't be a ton of restructuring. If no, there will be. This isn't a league where you are going to win a title with two double digit scorers, so they have to structure in such a way where they have 3 on the floor at least a majority of the time. And if they don't intend to use Piph as a point guard, it makes no sense to max Rodgers and waste her on the bench when she could be used to get back something they need.

_________________
The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.

[Happycappie25]

[NYL_WNBA_FAN]

I think if you wind up chasing on defense it usually means you're either double teaming and recovering or helping and recovering. Both are indications that defensively you're missing something you might need. Without Kiah in particular we did a lot of chasing. That's a whole discussion unto itself. The problem was not just in losing Kiah but that she was so important in the first place because she covered up some flaws in the rest of the team.

Here's the thing...and it relates to what Happy Cappie is saying. He's right. It's hard to get away with guard-sized small forwards in the WNBA nowadays. Most of the league has pretty thickly built and/or really tall small forwards...even some of the SF's that aren't super tall tend to be strong and somewhat physical. Christmas, Coleman, Moore/Augustus, TRP, practically, etc. TRP I think is listed at 5'11" but she's strong. Zellous is strong for a guard, but you look at her compared to some of these players and there's a size differential. On the championship Laimbeer teams, you had Pierson and Cash who could both swing between the 3 and 4 spots, and that was 10 years ago when the league was still smaller than it is today. When you're in either height or size mismatches (in the case of last night vs. Phoenix it's height mismatches), that fundamentally changes how you're going to play. And in the system Laimbeer prefers, it's built in part about being able to control the opposition at both ends physically. Z can hold her own at the 3 spot, but there's a difference between holding your own and dictating mismatches.

I'll tell you, if you want to look at a player who might be attainable that could help NY, I would look at Karima Christmas. Dallas has Aerial Powers and 3 first round draft picks. She might be attainable. I don't know what you'd give up, but that would be something I would consider if it's available. She's one of the stronger 3's in the league at 6'0" and 180. She's a very good rebounder for a 3 with some scoring ability and decent shooting touch. Get her working on that here with the NY support system and maybe she would have another level to reach.

_________________
The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.

[root_thing]

That open perimeter shooter is there by design. A shell defense protects the paint while risking outside shots. It's really very similar to Whisenant's White Line -- stop the high percentage inside shots, make them take the low percentage outside shots. Obviously, how open the shooter remains depends on how quickly you rotate. That in turn, depends on how much you hedge and how early you provide help inside. That's where adjustments can be made. However, if it isn't working, that begs the question of whether or not you should switch defenses for awhile. I think every team should have at least a second option just to change the look. A good example would be that first round Seattle-Atlanta game. Atlanta switched to a zone in the second half, and it threw off Seattle. Not that Seattle couldn't adjust tactically, but they had a hard time hitting shots after they made the changes. Just their rhythm was thrown off. So even if you don't fool people, forcing them to do something else can sometimes help.

The greatest concern to me is that the Liberty are a defensive team that often looks terrible on defense. Yes, they played this last stretch with a lot of injuries, but we saw the vulnerability even earlier this season in blowouts against LA and MN. We saw it several times last year -- games against Indiana and Washington come to mind -- and two years ago against San Antonio. The Liberty defense is like a Swiss clock with a lot of gears that move with precision. A smart opposing coach can gum-up those gears. If you fake the drive and draw help defenders, then you can pass back out and rotate the ball until you find the open shooter. Then, it's a matter of making your outside shots. I think what's changed over time is that there are now more proficient long-range shooters in the league and more willingness to take 3's. That's why I don't think you can simply go with these protect-the-paint defenses all the time. The game has evolved.

I'd like to dispel this idea that Allen is a bad individual defender before it becomes conventional wisdom around here. Allen's problem has more to do with fitting into the aforementioned clockwork team defense. She's had some problems with the decision-making when it comes to providing help and switching. Bec has also been a little over-aggressive on the perimeter while trying to imitate the Liberty's physical defensive style. Aside from the normal bumping, if you ever watch the Liberty defenders on the perimeter, there's a lot of poking and swiping against the ballhandler. The other thing about Allen is that she needs to get stronger to stand up to people like Alyssa Thomas and Karima Christmas. However, she has everything else: length, quickness, speed, athletic ability, and willingness.

As far as using Zellous and Wright at SF goes, I agree it's a problem. However, I think where it hurts you most is off the boards. We saw it at the beginning of the year when Cash was gone and Allen was still in Australia. We saw it again last night with Zellous getting most of the SF minutes. The Liberty get outrebounded in those situations, and where it really hurts is offensive rebounds by the opponent. Beyond that, you're also smaller defensively. In fact, the whole Liberty perimeter is drifting toward being smallish -- Prince, Rodgers, Schimmel, and Boyd are all listed at 5-9, and we know Boyd is probably more like 5-7. If you then use 5-10 Zellous at SF, it's a short perimeter. That's ironic given Laimbeer's reputation for liking big players.

[toad455]

I've had time to process last night's game and our season as a whole. I was pleased with us getting the #3 seed. I was pleased with our regular season. The end of season injuries scared me, but knowing we were healthy going into last night gave me a little piece of mind. Yes, we were better than last year's team. We were deeper. We were supposed to go further this season. But that team called the Mercury decided to suck all season and then finally show up last night to show everyone what they're really made of. It hurts still. I can't ever bring myself to watch the highlights from last night's game. As an #8 seed, we should have played someone like Atlanta or Seattle as projected, had an easy game and went on to face Los Angeles in a grueling 5 game series. I was looking forward to going to MSG to a packed arena on the league's 20th anniversary seeing two originals battle it out. But it's not to be. And now us Liberty fans wait through another long offseason hoping to be better in 2017. We lose Cash. We might lose Wright and/or Zellous. We'll hope some FA decides to come to NY with hopes of winning a championship. And we fans hope to reach the finals for the first time in what will be 15 years. The wait now begins...

_________________
LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!

Twitter: @TBRBWAY

[Bob Lamm]

Despite being at Madison Square Garden for bitter endings to the 2015 and 2016 seasons, I have many good feelings about both seasons. For me, it is never championship or nothing.

Even though we're not in the semifinals, I will still view the Liberty as the third best team in the league this season. We just got hit with a deadly mix: injuries at the worst time, a very unfortunate do-or-die setup for the second round, and drawing the most dangerous of the nine teams below us in the standings. New York fought hard, came from well behind twice, had a great offensive game, but lost to Diana Taurasi and other strong players. No shame there.

_________________
Remember Roe v. Wade. Work for and support legal abortion all over the world and full reproductive rights for everyone.

[Genero36]

_________________
I'm all for the separation of church and hate.

[cappa23MVP]