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sambista



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PostPosted: 08/08/15 1:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

yeah, real presidential:

ATLANTA The organizer of the Red State Gathering of conservative activists said Saturday he dis-invited Donald Trump from the event because of indecent comments about Fox News anchor Megyn Kelly that suggested menstruation.

I really think it was inappropriate, organizer Erick Erickson told delegates at the gatherings morning session. Ive got my wife here; Ive got my daughter here.

Referring to the Thursday debate in which Kelly asked Trump about past insults to women, the billionaire told CNN late Friday about the Fox News anchor: You could see there was blood coming out of her eyes. Blood coming out of her wherever.

Erickson and other critics said it appears that the billionaire believes Kelly asked him tough questions because she was having her period. In announcing the event expulsion, Erickson said, I dont want my daughter in the same room with Donald Trump.

In a statement, the Trump campaign said he meant to refer to blood from Kellys nose, and only a deviant would think anything else. The outspoken candidate attributed the withdrawn invitation to political correctness.

As for Erickson, the Trump statement said Not only is Erick a total loser, he has a history of supporting establishment losers in failed campaigns so it is an honor to be uninvited from his event.

usa today



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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 08/08/15 1:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Come on. This is all so laughable. When it comes to getting rid of Trump, it is now ALL HANDS ON DECK! They tried to 'will' the McCain comment into being his downfall and that didn't work and neither will this. Seriously? Erick Erickson (vomit) has made a tectonic shift here in taking the Right into adapting the sensitivity, reasoning, and tactics of Political Correctness. And for whom? One of these cartoonish Fox News anchors caricatures. THE NEWS MEDIA!

Oh yeah. This is really going to hurt Trump with his ever hardening and probably still growing base. Rolling Eyes

The quotes from Erick Erickson are priceless. Who do they think is going to buy this crap? lol.



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Falsehood will fly on the wings of the wind, and carry its tales to every corner of the earth; whilst truth lags behind; her steps slow and solemn, she has neither the vigour nor activity to overtake her enemy. - Thomas Francklin
tfan



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PostPosted: 08/08/15 7:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

beknighted wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
The Fox "down with Trump" campaign continues in full swing today.

Check out their website for articles like "Trumps collapse may create opportunity for the GOP to engage Latinos" . Or the Krauthammer video below.

But they are pumping up Rubio, Cruz and Fiorina.


The opportunity to engage Latinos would require them to take positiosn on immigration that Latinos would not find offensive. While Jeb! has tried to do that, nobody else seems willing, and the base has a real problem with anything that is short of "deport them all."


It says a lot about this country that it is surmised that you have to take a position for ILLEGAL immigration in order to get elected. But which Republicans are actively against illegal immigration besides Trump? Even though there is a minority of the party that is against it, the rich that fund it aren't. They are the ones that benefit from an over-supply of labor and a growing population. George W. Bush wasn't able to push through another amnesty during his term due to opposition from some in his party - but he tried. Bush was no great middle-of-the road Republican - and he tried to push through another amnesty.

I don't see it as being anywhere near correct to characterize the Republican base as saying "deport them all". We live in a country where illegals can get drivers licenses. Judges have ruled that illegal children and the children of illegals must be educated. At one point, if they still can't, the INS had to give a day's notice to any employer they were going to inspect for illegals working there. A large number of cities and counties will not report to the government when an illegal gets out of one of their jails - "sanctuary cities". There are similar laws in place in jurisdictions with regard to the police - they are not allowed to take any enforcement action if they, for example, stop an illegal for speeding. There aren't many people, if any, in this country who think deportation would ever take place.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 08/08/15 7:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
beknighted wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
The Fox "down with Trump" campaign continues in full swing today.

Check out their website for articles like "Trumps collapse may create opportunity for the GOP to engage Latinos" . Or the Krauthammer video below.

But they are pumping up Rubio, Cruz and Fiorina.


The opportunity to engage Latinos would require them to take positiosn on immigration that Latinos would not find offensive. While Jeb! has tried to do that, nobody else seems willing, and the base has a real problem with anything that is short of "deport them all."


It says a lot about this country that it is surmised that you have to take a position FOR illegal immigration in order to get elected. But which Republicans are actively against illegal immigration? Even though there is a minority of the party that is against it, the rich that fund it aren't. They are the ones that benefit from an over-supply of labor and a growing population. George W. Bush wasn't able to push through another amnesty during his term due to opposition from some in his party - but he tried. Bush was no great middle-of-the road Republican - and he tried to push through another amnesty.

And I don't see it as being anywhere near correct to characterize the Republican base as saying 'deport them all". We live in a country where illegals can get drivers licenses. At one point, if they still can't, the INS had to give a day's notice to any employer they were going to inspect for illegals working there. A large number of cities and counties will not report to the government when an illegal gets out of one of their jails - "sanctuary cities". There aren't many people, if any, in this country who think deportation is ever going to take place.


First, it's good rhetoric, but the reality is that Bush didn't even try to do any more than Obama has done to "stop" illegal immigration. It's all just rhetoric and pandering to a fanatical right wing base. Bush's business buddies had no interest in eliminating the supply of cheap labor in this country, and they still don't.

Second, the major issue isn't about stopping illegal immigration, it's about what to do with the 11 million or more undocumented aliens, many of whom have been here living, working, raising families, paying social security for many years. And yes, while most sane people understand those people are not ever leaving, the right wing GOP base that controls many of the primaries, particularly several early primaries, demands "deport them all" and anyone who suggests they can stay gets tagged with supporting "amnesty" as if that was an obscene word. Currently there are 17 candidates pandering to the most extreme elements of the party. It's interesting that even Trump who wants to spend some obscene amount on a 1900 mile long Berlin Wall in the Southwestern US doesn't talk about how he'd deal with the many millions already here.

Third, the anecdotal criminals hiding in sanctuary cities provide good sound bites for the Ted Cruzes of the world but are an infintesimal proportion of the total illegal immigrant population.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 08/08/15 7:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
Come on. This is all so laughable. When it comes to getting rid of Trump, it is now ALL HANDS ON DECK! They tried to 'will' the McCain comment into being his downfall and that didn't work and neither will this. Seriously? Erick Erickson (vomit) has made a tectonic shift here in taking the Right into adapting the sensitivity, reasoning, and tactics of Political Correctness. And for whom? One of these cartoonish Fox News anchors caricatures. THE NEWS MEDIA!

Oh yeah. This is really going to hurt Trump with his ever hardening and probably still growing base. Rolling Eyes

The quotes from Erick Erickson are priceless. Who do they think is going to buy this crap? lol.



+_____________

They take the worst possible interpretation of a very unspecific statement and try to use it against him. I say they're the ones being offensive.

The GOP establishment is really pulling out all the stops now.

I didn't like Trump at all, but considering how much Fox and Ailes and the Kochs and Priebus hate him, my view of him may change.

I hope all their efforts backfire and his poll numbers go up several points.

Aren't Huckabee and Cruz and Walker and Santorum and all of the others who are trying to eliminate womens' choice, roll back womens' health care, who oppose equal pay legislation, etc. a lot more anti-women than Donald Trump has ever been, regardless of how boorish he may be?


tfan



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PostPosted: 08/08/15 8:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

TonyL222 wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
TonyL222 wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:


America must love Fox.


The viewer panel was telling. No minorities. Well there was one lone black guy on the back row who never said a word.


I'm not sure they said where the panel was from. In any event, the panel was supposed to be one of strong Republican voters. How many blacks fit that definition?


That is exactly my point. The Republican party is not welcoming to minorities other than for there vote. They will parade Ben Carson around this election just like they did Herman Cane (where is he), Alan Keyes (where is he), and the other useful idiots Until their parade value is gone. Where is Michael Steele?


There is a percentage of the Republican party voters that wouldn't vote for a black candidate in the primaries. But the party leadership selecting Michael Steele to be the head of the Republican National Committee seems like it would go in the "inviting" column to me. Carson, Keyes and Cane were not viable candidates - not only not a senator or governor, they hadn't ever held elective office - and could have been pushed to run in order to have a black candidate, or they could have just chose to run. In either case they got some amount of support that they could be included in the debates. Whereas, on the other side of the aisle - who can name a black Democratic candidate for president other than Obama? It's not like there is a long list of black Democratic presidential candidates, senators and governors that can be used as evidence about how welcoming the Democrats are to African-Americans. And that is with the vast majority of black voters being Democrats.


jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 08/08/15 8:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:

I didn't like Trump at all, but considering how much Fox and Ailes and the Kochs and Priebus hate him, my view of him may change.


We need to seriously talk about Donald Trump. He is hoary douchebag, no question. That hasn't ever changed. He will never be president, thank HEAVENS. But I'm ready to call him an extremely important figure at this point and he could end up being an integral figure. Like, I ain't kidding. A man for his time. And I realize that on the other side of everything he says is the fact that he is also an opportunist who has himself exploited everything that he is blathering about the edges of. Donald Trump knows what China is doing. Americans don't know that. Not by miles. Most of our elected government and the enforcement arms don't know or are turning a blind eye.

I didn't respond in the other thread... but when Donald Trump says that Mexico is sending their worst across the border? And you guys are debating it. And Trump offers no proof. Trump is touching on things. Use your heads. They caught Guzman, the biggest drug lord in a country that has seen tens of thousands including law enforcement, politicians, and journalists murdered at the hands of the drug cartels...well they caught their big fish... locked him up... and summinagun if he didn't escape prison. lol. The Mexican people see this. A decade later they catch him again. And then he escapes again. Shocked This doesn't happen without hands working from very very high in an extremely corrupt government. But it happens.

So he dropped down a tunnel and road a motorbike a mile to the infamous half-built house. Do you know what the Mexican people in the know are saying now? The tunnel was bullshit. He walked out the front door and into a waiting limousine. This is seriously what people are saying happened. Not just old wives tales.

So here is what I think of Trump's claim that the Mexican government is pushing problematic individuals, of which they would certainly have their hands full of, across the border to enter the US among the tens of thousands of others. It is IMPOSSIBLE, IMO, that this ISN'T happening. To mock the Donald. Wake up! Think! What kind of fairy tale do you think this Earth you're living on is? One where you really get to worry about animals as much as what the banks are doing to people? Wow! Here is a news flash. You don't! This is ALL going to get you.

Why Trump is so important is this. He's not going to be president. But he's talking and a lot of people are listening. If he can just soften the temperament a little and if we can all overlook how fucking offensive an arrogant billionaire can be when you actually have one up close and breathing in your face... he can, possibly, open up a conversation and provide some of the many ugly truths about what is RIGHT NOW an historically disastrous moment in our country's history. China. Russian. Iran. We may think shady, oligarchs, etc. Yeah. People in bed with the communists. Yes. But it's beyond even that. Giant networks of these people are operating right here in the US beyond the reach of the US government and trade regulators. They're laundering billions of dollars, ten million at a time. They are a GIANT GROWING OCTOPUS-LIKE SECTOR of the world economy that is BASED RIGHT FUCKING HERE IN THE US and you're not even aware of them or hearing about them except piecemeal abstract stuff once in a while. If you're lucky.

Trump has been a part of that because's he's dealt with it and he's seen the changes the wave of power and lack of oversight and he's now selling real-estate to these very same people. He's seen it and he's non-specifically blowing smoke about it as part of his rhetoric as he tries to get a foothold in this presidential run.

Look. Trump has shown something here with these Republicans and Fox News. He is exposing them right now. Republicans and Fox News are going to lose giant chunks of their base. People aren't going to side with Megyn Fucking Kelly. They're going to side with the guy who they think is standing up to the ice cool blondes of the world whose shit doesn't stink. And let's NOT jump in there (if you're on the Left) in defense of Megyn Kelly as if she's a woman and that's what matters. Fox News is why black people in this country still live in hoods. Period. Fox News is WHY we're a divided and largely destroyed country where Americans shop at Dollar General and our cities are so full of new gilded age oligarchs from other countries that the Barneys and Sacks and St. John stores have to be as big as medium sized hospitals. A Fox News anchor, male, female, Cecil the fucking Lion, is like part of the Orwellian Ministry of Information. Like TAS. WE HAVE IT. It's called Fox News. Megyn Kelly is yet another in a long line of super attractive faces of Fox News. Those people should be in prison for what they've done to this country!

Alright. I'm ranting. I was talking to a Persian guy last night. He's in the garment industry. Beautiful home in Beverly Hills. He spent 20 years in China and was just in Italy for the last four months. Such a cool guy. What he told me about what the Chinese are doing, who they are, how those that are operating here and buying everything made their money, down to the percentages they shared with the communist government, etc. , how they get their money into the country, it made me shiver. It made HIM shiver to tell it. He said he loves America that it's his country now but he says this is destroyed country. That the people here have no clue as to what these other countries are doing to them.

Oh. He touched one something and I just laughed and said... YOU SOUND LIKE ME. lol. He said, people think because they've been communist for a 70 years... that the Chinese don't know anything about business etc. He said, it's a five thousand year old culture! This is something I say all the time. America is under 300 years old. Most of us mixed European types, black people, we've all been uprooted from our ancient cultures... but we are and have been invaded by those from around the world who come from cultures that have been intact for thousands and thousands of years. You can't even HOPE to compete. They have MONEY, which Americans don't have. They have predatory business knowledge and a shared culture and they are here en masse and network among themselves, ignoring and exploiting every weakness in our laws or oversight, and they oops... communicate in their own language which makes regulating them or policing their activities ... uh... like trying to find life on Mars. It's just not happening.

Donald Trump knows all this. Many many American business people know this. But Trump is a loose cannon. To quote Shakespeare. When comes such another? This guy may be a blathering asshole. And John Kasich might look to me like a warm and fuzzy progressive Republican centrist. And Hillary Clinton... well... I'm not even going to go there. But Donald Trump is the useful idiot of the moment. And, as he would say, please. Do we really think he's that stupid?



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Falsehood will fly on the wings of the wind, and carry its tales to every corner of the earth; whilst truth lags behind; her steps slow and solemn, she has neither the vigour nor activity to overtake her enemy. - Thomas Francklin


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pilight



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PostPosted: 08/08/15 8:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Oh jammer, that's same nonsense people (including Trump himself) were spouting a generation ago about the Japanese taking over everything. He knows nothing beyond how to keep his name in the news. He's Kim Kardashian with bad hair.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 08/08/15 9:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:


First, it's good rhetoric, but the reality is that Bush didn't even try to do any more than Obama has done to "stop" illegal immigration. It's all just rhetoric and pandering to a fanatical right wing base. Bush's business buddies had no interest in eliminating the supply of cheap labor in this country, and they still don't.


Did Bush, McCain or Romney ever campaign against illegal immigration (as opposed to making a statement about enforcing our borders when pressed by a questioner)? McCain recently called those of his constituents who support Trump's idea of a wall or who are against illegals - "crazies".

Quote:

Second, the major issue isn't about stopping illegal immigration, it's about what to do with the 11 million or more undocumented aliens, many of whom have been here living, working, raising families, paying social security for many years.


How does an illegal pay social security taxes? There actually is no issue with "what to do with" if you enforce the laws with regard to employers. No one, including Trump, seems to think that employers will ever be punished for hiring illegals, which speaks to the reverence we give to the upper class business owners in our society.

Quote:

And yes, while most sane people understand those people are not ever leaving, the right wing GOP base that controls many of the primaries, particularly several early primaries, demands "deport them all" and anyone who suggests they can stay gets tagged with supporting "amnesty" as if that was an obscene word.


Ironically it is the poor Democrats who should be supporting enforcement of our immigration rules and be against another amnesty as they are impacted more by the over-supply of labor and the negative effects of population growth. Don't understand why people aren't demanding "enforce our laws". They shouldn't view employers as exempt from punishment.

Quote:

Currently there are 17 candidates pandering to the most extreme elements of the party. It's interesting that even Trump who wants to spend some obscene amount on a 1900 mile long Berlin Wall in the Southwestern US doesn't talk about how he'd deal with the many millions already here.


The fact that Trump isn't talking about the easy solution - jail anyone who hires an illegal, makes me think he really isn't that serious about it.

Are there candidates taking a strong position against illegal immigration besides Trump?




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Luuuc



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PostPosted: 08/08/15 9:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I assumed that Trump's value in all of this was to make even people who thought he was on their side shake their heads, roll their eyes, cringe at the fact that this guy is so high profile and being seen by the world, think to themselves "this has gotta be parody, right?", and then reflect on their own stances as a result



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tfan



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PostPosted: 08/08/15 9:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

*duplicate*




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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 08/08/15 9:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Oh jammer, that's same nonsense people (including Trump himself) were spouting a generation ago about the Japanese taking over everything. He knows nothing beyond how to keep his name in the news. He's Kim Kardashian with bad hair.


Pilight please. You don't know what you're saying. You live in a different world than I do. A different world certainly than Donald Trump does. You have no idea how accurate what Trump is saying is about this country you're living in. You don't see it and you don't believe it and so you hang onto your traditional modes of approaching things that sound like history repeating itself. Same old cycle. Do you really think nothing ever changes? Move around the world. Talk to people. Look. I've been seeing and saying these things for years. And I'm not Donald Trump. I see it and have been trying to wrap my mind around a way of talking about it that doesn't result in me being labeled as a xenophobe or a bigot.

But I sat and listened to a millionaire from Iran last night for an hour. He said he could write a book about what the Chinese are doing. HE said this. He said these things that everyone was saying about the Japanese owning everything. I'll get to the irony there in a second. But he said the Chinese are going to own MOST of America, what has great value, that is, within 15 years. He said they're operating outside of the law and exploiting weaknesses in the laws and regulations and that by default, if they're here, with any kind of wealth, it is due to the fact that they were in bed with the communists.

This irony in his concern is... and what also exposes your position that it's just the myth of a Japanese takeover repackaged and aimed now at the Chinese... is that this guy was a Persian. lol. He even laughed at the irony of that himself. There were two hundred thousand affluent Persians here in 1978 within months of the Iranian Revolution. They have grown in numbers to, according to themselves, near a million. They came as affluent people and they have bought and bought and prospered greatly in the US. They network among themselves. I don't want to paint with too broad of a brush but they have been accused of operating as much as possible according to their own rules and regulations and as much as possible outside and away from ours.

So forget for a minute the irony of this guy spouting this stuff. The point is that you need to understand is lose the Japanese myth stuff... it's already happened with the Iranians. They have created an almost separate economy and class for themselves here in Los Angeles. No one denies this. Los Angeles is a place in general where you find (ridiculously) large groups from specific countries who set up shop here and dominate sectors or fields of the local economy or workforce.

I live this, pilight. I've seen it up close for 30 years. How do I warn you about what is happening to your country without people deciding it's much easier to just take me as a closet xenophobe? People here in LA ... we talk about this place... and what is happening here... and what we see happening here... and we know how incredibly in the dark you all are in the rest of the country.

The problem with Trump, the only problem, I should say, is if he's just a blowhard who doesn't really know anything but is just spouting things he's heard. I doubt that. This is all so real. People on the front lines of international business know what's happening. In the US we are (I've said this, my Persian pal last night said this) as a country focused and distracted by Left Right politics, culture wars, etc. We're all missing the real story here. The affluent as well as the more predatory and scurrilous business elements from around the globe are here en mass and they're exploiting the freedom and lack of attention and this is only the beginning.

You better FIND politicians who are talking about this. Donald Trump isn't a real politician and I'm not sure how much he's really committed to in terms of exposing details and suggesting solutions. I doubt we'll or he'll get that far. But there's a lot about Trump that we need to talk about and can use right now. I don't even want to waste my time on the cultural stuff.



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mercfan3



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PostPosted: 08/08/15 9:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
I assumed that Trump's value in all of this was to make even people who thought he was on their side shake their heads, roll their eyes, cringe at the fact that this guy is so high profile and being seen by the world, think to themselves "this has gotta be parody, right?", and then reflect on their own stances as a result


The really really sad thing is, after the debate, I came away being less scared of Trump than the rest of them.

He's a jackass. A racist jackass. A sexist jackass. He puts his foot in his mouth. He thinks he's better than everyone else because he's made a lot of money.

But in the past, he's been pro choice, pro a single payer healthcare system, he wants to put a tax hike on the wealthy once (that's better than the rest of them) and not nearly as harsh on gay people as his opponents.

And he won't get in bed with the foxnews brothers.

Don't get me wrong, he has some horrible horrible stances, and I don't want him to be president under any circumstances...

But...of the field..He might be the only Republican who has had (at least in the past..although I wonder if he's just spouting Republican talking points or he has truly changed his mind) a few opinions on certain issues that don't completely turn my stomach.

Which makes him less scary than the rest of them for me.



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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 08/08/15 9:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:


Don't get me wrong, he has some horrible horrible stances, and I don't want him to be president under any circumstances...


Of course not! The guy could make Nixon look like Bobby Kennedy. But one of those other assholes or Hillary Clinton IS going to be president. And none of them are telling the American people the truth about what's happening in this country.



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Falsehood will fly on the wings of the wind, and carry its tales to every corner of the earth; whilst truth lags behind; her steps slow and solemn, she has neither the vigour nor activity to overtake her enemy. - Thomas Francklin
tfan



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PostPosted: 08/08/15 9:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
sambista wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
sambista wrote:
fiorina's no idiot. if there's one thing we need most in a POTUS, it's someone with a sharp mind.


If raw intelligence were the sole criteria, it would be a two-person race between Cruz and Carson.

But intelligence is no guarantee of competence, temperament, judgment or leadership.


yeah, but i didn't cite intelligence only, did i?


For Fiorina? I think you did.

She has a track record. It isn't good.


For someone who started as a secretary - "fired as CEO" doesn't sound like a bad track record. At least I would like to have that resume and don't think most voters would view it as a negative, although some will.

I think her problem is that she hasn't held elective office. We don't let business people come in and become president. You should be a governor or senator before trying to become president, although congressman might work if you were a highly ranked one. George W. Bush had been a CEO, but his company was not successful. He had spent 10 years of his adult life not working, something Gore could have focused on except for the fact that he had been a governor for two terms, which wiped out his non-political life from consideration




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mercfan3



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PostPosted: 08/08/15 9:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
mercfan3 wrote:


Don't get me wrong, he has some horrible horrible stances, and I don't want him to be president under any circumstances...


Of course not! The guy could make Nixon look like Bobby Kennedy. But one of those other assholes or Hillary Clinton IS going to be president. And none of them are telling the American people the truth about what's happening in this country.


I've repeated it a few times in this thread..the only person who has a shot at beating Clinton is Rubio. And that's only a shot. Republicans have just alienated too many people, and Millennials (who are soon going to be part of the demo most likely to vote) aren't afraid of the words "communism" and "progressive."



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 08/08/15 9:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:




How does an illegal pay social security taxes?


They do, and they're helping extend the funding of the trust. They and their employers pay in but they can't collect benefits.


tfan



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PostPosted: 08/08/15 9:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
tfan wrote:




How does an illegal pay social security taxes?


They do, and they're helping extend the funding of the trust. They and their employers pay in but they can't collect benefits.


But what is the process? Normally they send in money attached to a valid social security number. The illegal doesn't have one, so is it just agreed with the government that for your illegals use all zeros or something?

And why would they do it? Why notify the government you have illegally hired an illegal and why take money that you could have kept or given to the illegal and give it to the government?

I know that during the Clinton administration there were issues with some nominee for some post having an illegal for a housekeeper. So they got rejected. But then it came out that another candidate also had an illegal housekeeper (and in fact it started coming out that all kinds of the elite had illegals as housekeepers). But for their defense (I think they were also rejected) they said that they had "paid their social security taxes". I am still baffled by that concept - you can hire an illegal as long as you pay social security taxes. And why aren't income taxes also mentioned?




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pilight



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PostPosted: 08/08/15 9:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:
jammerbirdi wrote:
mercfan3 wrote:


Don't get me wrong, he has some horrible horrible stances, and I don't want him to be president under any circumstances...


Of course not! The guy could make Nixon look like Bobby Kennedy. But one of those other assholes or Hillary Clinton IS going to be president. And none of them are telling the American people the truth about what's happening in this country.


I've repeated it a few times in this thread..the only person who has a shot at beating Clinton is Rubio. And that's only a shot. Republicans have just alienated too many people, and Millennials (who are soon going to be part of the demo most likely to vote) aren't afraid of the words "communism" and "progressive."


If they're not afraid of communism then our educational system is worse off than I thought.



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mercfan3



Joined: 23 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 08/08/15 10:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
mercfan3 wrote:
jammerbirdi wrote:
mercfan3 wrote:


Don't get me wrong, he has some horrible horrible stances, and I don't want him to be president under any circumstances...


Of course not! The guy could make Nixon look like Bobby Kennedy. But one of those other assholes or Hillary Clinton IS going to be president. And none of them are telling the American people the truth about what's happening in this country.


I've repeated it a few times in this thread..the only person who has a shot at beating Clinton is Rubio. And that's only a shot. Republicans have just alienated too many people, and Millennials (who are soon going to be part of the demo most likely to vote) aren't afraid of the words "communism" and "progressive."


If they're not afraid of communism then our educational system is worse off than I thought.


Let me rephrase...aren't afraid that any move in the progressive direction or any limitation (like for instance, raising the minimum wage) on corporations will mean the United States has become a communist state.

Although true communism isn't scary..it's just impossible to achieve.



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ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 08/08/15 10:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:

For someone who started as a secretary - "fired as CEO" doesn't sound like a bad track record. At least I would like to have that resume and don't think most voters would view it as a negative, although some will.


The Peter Principle run amok. She rose waaaaaaaay above her level of competence. At A&T she played the game and had some powerful mentors. At Lucent she made a bunch of irresponsible deals loaning billions to small undercapatalized companies so they could buy Lucent stuff, thereby inflating Lucent's sales and stock price, and then ran out to HP just before the chickens came home to roost and Lucent's stock collapsed to under $1/share. Then she nearly bankrupted HP before they fired her ass for incompetence.

And now you want to promote her to the most important job in the world. F'ing brilliant.


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 08/08/15 10:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
tfan wrote:




How does an illegal pay social security taxes?


They do, and they're helping extend the funding of the trust. They and their employers pay in but they can't collect benefits.


But what is the process? Normally they send in money attached to a valid social security number. The illegal doesn't have one, so is it just agreed with the government that for your illegals use all zeros or something?

And why would they do it? Why notify the government you have an illegal and why take money that you could have kept or given to the illegal and give it to the government?

I know that during the Clinton administration there were issues with some nominee for some post having an illegal for a housekeeper. So they got rejected. But then it came out that another candidate also had an illegal housekeeper (and in fact it started coming out that all kinds of the elite had illegals as housekeepers). But for their defense (I think they were also rejected) they said that they had "paid their social security taxes". I am still baffled by that concept - you can hire an illegal as long as you pay social security taxes. And why aren't income taxes also mentioned?


They pay income taxes too.

Employers have to withhold taxes and FICA and pay the employer FICA share. The employees provide phony or stolen numbers. This has been going on for decades. I don't understand your problem. Indeed it's been an issue in Congress during debates over immigration reform over whether illegals being allowed to become legal should get credit for the SS taxes they've paid.

Plus the Obama administration has issued real SS numbers to hundreds of thousands of illegals.


tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: 08/08/15 11:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
tfan wrote:

For someone who started as a secretary - "fired as CEO" doesn't sound like a bad track record. At least I would like to have that resume and don't think most voters would view it as a negative, although some will.


The Peter Principle run amok. She rose waaaaaaaay above her level of competence. At A&T she played the game and had some powerful mentors. At Lucent she made a bunch of irresponsible deals loaning billions to small undercapatalized companies so they could buy Lucent stuff, thereby inflating Lucent's sales and stock price, and then ran out to HP just before the chickens came home to roost and Lucent's stock collapsed to under $1/share. Then she nearly bankrupted HP before they fired her ass for incompetence.

And now you want to promote her to the most important job in the world. F'ing brilliant.


If it's the most important job in the world, we certainly aren't very selective in who we let get it. I don't see scrutiny of the candidates' past work experience (and job performance) or education. In fact, of the qualities that we apparently look for in a President - someone who knows how to wield the mighty American war machine or manipulate foreign powers and someone who knows how to manipulate the American economy to new heights - they don't have to demonstrate any prior knowledge or experience in that field. Outside Eisenhower, we don't take military leaders. We don't take ambassadors or diplomats. And we don't take economics professors. We almost exclusively just take politicians, who talk a good game.

The 2005 HP annual report is online (signed by Fiorina's replacement). It shows that she did not "nearly bankrupt HP". She started in 1999 and they list annual figures in the report for the years 2001 to 2005 (the year she was fired).

Revenue went (2001 to 2005): $45B, $56B, $79B, $75B, $86B
Net earnings (2001 to 2005): .68B, -.9B, 2.5B, 3.5B, 2.4B

The loss in 2002 was due to the merger with Compaq.


p_d_swanson



Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 9714



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PostPosted: 08/08/15 11:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I always enjoy Jammer's Tom-Friedman-talks-to-cab-driver anecdotes about how the world really works...


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 13348



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PostPosted: 08/08/15 11:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:

The loss in 2002 was due to the merger with Compaq.


Which she engineered, was an idiotic deal, and nearly ruined the Company. During her tenure HP fell well behind chief rivals Dell and IBM. Wall Street didn't think much of her company and HP consistently traded for lower multiples than similar companies. And she couldn't get along with her board or anyone else.

There's plenty written about her tenure at HP. I suggest you start with the WaPost's fact check of her bogus claims about her business "success". They awarded her three Pinicchios out of a maximum four. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2015/05/08/carly-fiorinas-misleading-claims-about-her-business-record/

Is she your sister or something? You're sure going out of your way to strain to defend the indefensible,


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