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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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 Posted: 05/15/15 11:39 pm ::: |
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WNBA, Richie got Griner, Johnson suspensions right
Voepel weighs in on the topic (video included)
http://espn.go.com/wnba/story/_/id/12894707/wnba-laurel-richie-got-brittney-griner-gloryjohnson-suspensions-right
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Even if people don't agree with these suspensions -- thinking either they are too harsh or too lenient -- they have to respect the way the decision was made. Any process like this is always more complicated for the people in authority positions who have to navigate it than it is for outsiders, media included, to weigh in on it.
But by detailing how she came to her conclusions -- talking to all parties involved, reading the police report, seeking advice from domestic violence experts, getting counsel from the NBA -- Richie removed any doubt about her commitment to aggressive but fair leadership on a difficult issue. She explained why it took the time it did and provided a thorough blueprint. |
| Quote: |
| Richie needed to impart the message, in no uncertain terms, that there are standards of behavior for WNBA players that are non-negotiable. But she also pointed out that the WNBA, just like every other business, has a responsibility to aid in educating its employees on behavioral matters like this. |
Here's a Griner quote I found.
| Quote: |
| "I want to thank everyone for their support over these last few weeks. I realize I let down a lot of people who have been champions for me and I will support my teammates and our organization every day until I am back on the court. I am thankful for the opportunity to make positive changes and become a role model for others to do the same." |
Doesn't look like Griner is fighting the ruling. Best decision she's made in a while.
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bekcat1
Joined: 24 Feb 2011
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| Posted: 05/15/15 11:47 pm ::: |
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| tfan wrote: |
| bekcat1 wrote: |
| tfan wrote: |
| GEF34 wrote: |
I believe the general definition of gay is someone in a relationship with someone of the same sex. |
Why are you giving that definition when you believe that Johnson is not a lesbian? |
I never said that. She's the one who said that.
By definition, she IS a lesbian (or at the very least, bisexual). She's denying that, not me. |
I was responding to GEF34, who takes Johnson's statement as true, and then provided a definition that contradicts it. |
Sorry about that. Been a long day for me. I wasn't reading too carefully, apparently.
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mb1
Joined: 09 Feb 2006
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 05/16/15 1:04 am ::: |
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| mb1 wrote: |
| https://twitter.com/JWs_ENG/status/599223987491725312 |
Interesting, because we know Taurasi's going back to UMMC next year. So is Parker done there, or are they going to shell out all that cash only for one of them to have to sit out EuroLeague Women games?
Either way, it'll be nice to see Griner take on top competition more regularly, rather than playing on those virtual one-player teams in China. |
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braveniler58
Joined: 30 May 2007
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| Posted: 05/16/15 1:16 am ::: |
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| dang, big suspension. Sucks as a merc fan, but I'm glad to see WNBA deliver harsh penalities for those issues. sends a message, not only to the league but also to the fans (especially the young fans).
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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| Posted: 05/16/15 1:22 am ::: |
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| tfan wrote: |
| GEF34 wrote: |
I believe the general definition of gay is someone in a relationship with someone of the same sex. |
Why are you giving that definition when you believe that Johnson is not a lesbian? |
First I never said I believed she is one thing or the other. And in my first message I said it doesn't matter what anyone else's definition is, all that matters is what her definition is. So if she believes being straight is one thing and it differs from societies general definition of what being straight is I am not going to say she is in denial or make any judgments about her and her relationship.
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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| Posted: 05/16/15 1:26 am ::: |
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| bekcat1 wrote: |
| GEF34 wrote: |
| bekcat1 wrote: |
| GEF34 wrote: |
| bekcat1 wrote: |
| GEF34 wrote: |
| bekcat1 wrote: |
Having said that, I agree there are some red flags Brittney should be seeing...most importantly the fact that Glory doesn't self identify as a lesbian...she doesn't even self identify as bisexual. She self identifies as straight. This marriage won't last a year, IMO, and I really feel for Brittney if I'm right. |
I don't see why that is an issue, unless she is fantasizing about marrying a man it doesn't matter what she calls herself. And what is her definition of straight, not your's or societies, but her definition. |
Because, and again this is just my opinion, that Glory isn't being honest with herself. And if you begin a relationship with dishonesty, it isn't going to end well.
I am gay and the first relationship I was in began with that very same mind set. It was a volatile relationship because of a number of reasons, but I firmly believe that that denial of my true self not only to myself, but to my partner, was the start of it all. So, I'm not pulling this out of my proverbial ass, I kind of know what I'm talking about.
I understand that we all go through our journeys differently, and that even if we walk some of the same paths, we tend to do it somewhat differently, but there are some aspects to the journeys that tend to hold true for everybody. Traveling with dishonesty tends to be one of those things. |
But you are saying she is being dishonest by your definition of straight, you don't know what her definition is.
I'm don't doubt your experiences or just making things up, for I do think the straight/bi/gay definitions that society uses are very cut and dry, but not everyone believes those definitions. I don't know Glory, but she seems like a person who doesn't "go along" with society, so I wouldn't be surprised if her definition of straight isn't the same as society's definition. |
Maybe so, but the general definition of gay is someone in a relationship with someone who is of the same gender. To believe otherwise is denial.
Look, I believe sexuality can be very fluid, but being fluid doesn't change a black or white definition of gay or straight (or bisexual and any other "sexual" there is). |
I believe the general definition of gay is someone in a relationship with someone of the same sex. While many people use gender and sex interchangeably they aren't technically interchangeable. Sex has to do with biological or anatomical body parts and gender has to do with societal and cultural differences. I believe if a man believes he is a female his sex is male if he didn't have a sex change surgery, but his gender is female because he acts like a female would. |
This has nothing to do with gender identity. I'm referring to sexual identity. As far as I know, Glory believes she's a woman, just not a gay one. |
You used the word gender when you stated what you believed to be the general definition of gay. All I did was point out that I believed gender has nothing to do with the general definition of being gay, that people judge gay based on sex not gender.
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sportsfan48
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 05/16/15 4:17 am ::: |
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I think the suspension is fair and I like the message it sends.
But let me throw this thought out: Usually a suspension means you cannot even be in the arena the night of the game. So does this mean that BG cannot participate in the ring ceremony before Phoenix's first game?
And if BG cannot participate in the ring ceremony, is that fair? Or is it just an additional consequence of a bad decision?
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Michelle89
Joined: 17 Nov 2010
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| Posted: 05/16/15 4:35 am ::: |
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| Richyyy wrote: |
Just to mention, for those looking for an analogous situation in the men's game, Jeff Taylor got 24 games at the start of this season for a similar conviction to Griner's (obviously you can argue about how similar the situations were, but the charges look reasonably close).
Percentage-wise, 24 NBA games would mean a 10-game WNBA suspension, so on that basis maybe they got off lightly. |
I just dont think this is similar. It's 1 way. 1 person doing the violence towards another person. Griner and Glory were both participating in the fight.
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HistoryWomensBasketball
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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| Posted: 05/16/15 5:33 am ::: |
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| Luuuc wrote: |
My money was on a 4 game suspension, though this latest statement by the league is the first time I've heard that a concussion was amongst the damage done.
I commend the league for taking a very firm stance on this one. I think there's very little chance that many people will accuse them of not taking this issue seriously enough.
I also hope that Brittney & Glory do not appeal this decision, but that's just a personal hope that would indicate to me that they take it as seriously as they should, for the sake of their own relationship. |
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calbearman76
Joined: 02 Nov 2009
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| Posted: 05/16/15 5:53 am ::: |
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Put me in the category of too harsh a penalty. I expected 1 or 2 games because everything pointed to a misdemeanor charge at most. Griner pled guilty to a charge that will be dismissed assuming she gets appropriate counseling, etc. Johnson's case has not yet been adjudicated.
The one precedent that I think is most on point is Kara Braxton. She got two games for her first DUI and six for her second. Domestic abuse is a real problem, but so is DUI. Perhaps there are more facts that haven't been made public (e.g., a concussion to Glory Johnson) that would call for a greater penalty but from what I know this seems harsh.
Beyond the specifics of this case all leagues, including the WNBA, should classify their penalty policies into three categories:
1) On court issues - Includes fighting, abuse of officials, abuse of fans etc., that happen within the course of games or directly related to them.
2) Off court issues - Includes legal issues as well as other conduct (e.g., racist comments) that brings discredit to the league.
3) Game integrity issues - Includes steroid use, gambling, cheating.
Drug use should be split between performance enhancing drugs (steroids, HGH and amphetamines) (category 3) and other illegal drug use (marijuana) (category 2).
All three categories are at times deserving of suspensions. Off court issues are bad for public relations but don't affect the games. The severity of penalties for these issues seems to be rising dramatically. In the long run this may not be good for the athletes or the sports.
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UofDel_Alum
Joined: 10 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 05/16/15 8:30 am ::: |
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As a male and a person that supports same sex marriages, I am a little surprise at the people who think this penalty is too harsh. First, I anticipate the union will appeal this and get it reduced to three or four game suspension.
Second, as the issue of same sex marriage is becoming accepted you have to expect the same rules apply to them as male-female marriages.
Third, in same sex marriages, as a percentage, abuse is the most under reported issue.
I am glad the WNBA has taken this stance, it not only sets a bar for same sex marriages but also for all types of partnerships. Abuse should not be tolerated.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007
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| Posted: 05/16/15 8:48 am ::: |
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| I think it's an appropriate penalty. It's important to set precedent in something like this going forward. Especially in a league where players do engage in relationships with one another.
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hyperetic
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 05/16/15 10:43 am ::: |
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| Michelle89 wrote: |
| Richyyy wrote: |
Just to mention, for those looking for an analogous situation in the men's game, Jeff Taylor got 24 games at the start of this season for a similar conviction to Griner's (obviously you can argue about how similar the situations were, but the charges look reasonably close).
Percentage-wise, 24 NBA games would mean a 10-game WNBA suspension, so on that basis maybe they got off lightly. |
I just dont think this is similar. It's 1 way. 1 person doing the violence towards another person. Griner and Glory were both participating in the fight. |
Well of course they were both participating in the fight. A distinction to me is whether they both were aggressors or if one was merely defending their self. |
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 05/16/15 11:34 am ::: |
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WNBA, Richie got Griner, Johnson suspensions right
http://espn.go.com/wnba/story/_/id/12894707/wnba-laurel-richie-got-brittney-griner-gloryjohnson-suspensions-right
| Quote: |
| Even if people don't agree with these suspensions -- thinking either they are too harsh or too lenient -- they have to respect the way the decision was made. Any process like this is always more complicated for the people in authority positions who have to navigate it than it is for outsiders, media included, to weigh in on it. |
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 05/16/15 12:38 pm ::: |
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| I guess I'm still having a hard time with the idea Griner should be seeing a red flag, when its Johnson who got a concussion handed to her from Griner. No red flag there?
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Shades
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| Posted: 05/16/15 1:03 pm ::: |
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| Randy wrote: |
| I guess I'm still having a hard time with the idea Griner should be seeing a red flag, when its Johnson who got a concussion handed to her from Griner. No red flag there? |
I'm talking about relationship red flags. In other words, does this person really love me unselfishly?
To me it was pretty clear they had equal responsibility and blame for the altercation, but yet it's Griner who is trying to take the fall for it by pleading guilty, presumably to deflect Johnson's responsibility in the matter. Johnson pled not guilty and is seeking dismissal. Don't you wonder how much of how Griner's actions are at the insistence of Johnson, or does Griner really blame only herself for the altercation?
Another red flag is they both recognize Johnson as straight. Johnson says she's not attracted to women, but she's making an exception for Griner. Why is there an exception? Even after the marriage, Johnson seems a bit confused or is like "it's hard to explain". This doesn't seem like grounds for successful relation.
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MNfan22
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 05/16/15 2:08 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| Randy wrote: |
| I guess I'm still having a hard time with the idea Griner should be seeing a red flag, when its Johnson who got a concussion handed to her from Griner. No red flag there? |
I'm talking about relationship red flags. In other words, does this person really love me unselfishly?
To me it was pretty clear they had equal responsibility and blame for the altercation, but yet it's Griner who is trying to take the fall for it by pleading guilty, presumably to deflect Johnson's responsibility in the matter. Johnson pled not guilty and is seeking dismissal. Don't you wonder how much of how Griner's actions are at the insistence of Johnson, or does Griner really blame only herself for the altercation?
Another red flag is they both recognize Johnson as straight. Johnson says she's not attracted to women, but she's making an exception for Griner. Why is there an exception? Even after the marriage, Johnson seems a bit confused or is like "it's hard to explain". This doesn't seem like grounds for successful relation. |
There are plenty of red flags to go around - for both of them. Like getting into a violent fight in the first place. Does that say 'unselfish love'? I'm reading that as something quite different.
I guess I missed where Johnson declared herself as heterosexual. Where was that - her facebook, page, People? (I'm not disputing, just asking.) I guess though my thing about the concussion is it shows how violent the exchange was - this wasn't a pillow fight.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 05/16/15 2:24 pm ::: |
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| Randy wrote: |
| Shades wrote: |
| Randy wrote: |
| I guess I'm still having a hard time with the idea Griner should be seeing a red flag, when its Johnson who got a concussion handed to her from Griner. No red flag there? |
I'm talking about relationship red flags. In other words, does this person really love me unselfishly?
To me it was pretty clear they had equal responsibility and blame for the altercation, but yet it's Griner who is trying to take the fall for it by pleading guilty, presumably to deflect Johnson's responsibility in the matter. Johnson pled not guilty and is seeking dismissal. Don't you wonder how much of how Griner's actions are at the insistence of Johnson, or does Griner really blame only herself for the altercation?
Another red flag is they both recognize Johnson as straight. Johnson says she's not attracted to women, but she's making an exception for Griner. Why is there an exception? Even after the marriage, Johnson seems a bit confused or is like "it's hard to explain". This doesn't seem like grounds for successful relation. |
There are plenty of red flags to go around - for both of them. Like getting into a violent fight in the first place. Does that say 'unselfish love'? I'm reading that as something quite different.
I guess I missed where Johnson declared herself as heterosexual. Where was that - her facebook, page, People? (I'm not disputing, just asking.) I guess though my thing about the concussion is it shows how violent the exchange was - this wasn't a pillow fight. |
Browse through the "Griner Wedding" topic
http://boards.rebkell.net/viewtopic.php?t=84378
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Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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p_d_swanson
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 05/16/15 7:32 pm ::: |
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| zune69 wrote: |
| Glory should appeal the suspension.Unlike Griner,Johnson did not plead guilty to any charge. |
So what?
First, her case is still pending.
Second, the outcome of her criminal case isn't dispositive in the WNBA's disciplinary determination.
Just because she didn't step up and deal with it doesn't mean she shouldn't be suspened.
Maybe she she be suspended more for failing to accept responsibility.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 05/16/15 7:44 pm ::: |
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| kool-aide wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| UofDel_Alum wrote: |
| This punishment was not about the severity of anyone being hurt, but was a message that the WNBA will not tolerate partner abuse. This was a severe punishment |
This is the part I'm not clear on.
I think domestic abuse should be dealt with severely, but in this case, who's being abused and who's doing the abusing?
It just strikes me that there's a pretty big difference between two relatively equal participants getting in a fight with each other, and a situation in which one plainly stronger dominant individual is taking advantage of and beating the crap out of an obviously weaker individual. |
We're use to thinking of all domestic violence in terms of domestic abuse where one partner has significant power (such as emotional or financial or physical) over the other partner [or a parent over a child]. But there is also domestic violence where there is violence on multiple sides/by two parties. So domestic violence of relative equals can [and does] exist separate from what we think of as an abuser-victim scenario. But it is still dangerous, illegal, and needs to be addressed. |
Regardless of the balance, I still think there is a major difference between a sitution where one person is bullying or "abusing" the other and a fight between relative equals.
The latter strikes me as a very odd definition of "abuse".
It may be disturbing the peace, but who is "abusing" who?
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zune69
Joined: 27 May 2010
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| Posted: 05/16/15 9:13 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| zune69 wrote: |
| Glory should appeal the suspension.Unlike Griner,Johnson did not plead guilty to any charge. |
So what?
First, her case is still pending.
Second, the outcome of her criminal case isn't dispositive in the WNBA's disciplinary determination.
Just because she didn't step up and deal with it doesn't mean she shouldn't be suspened.
Maybe she she be suspended more for failing to accept responsibility. |
Or maybe Johnson doesn't want to take responsibility for a altercation she did not instigate ?
Griner at times comes off as a hot head ,and seems to be very confrontational.I'm looking at her instagram feed and she's verbally aggressive towards many of the posters
This is just one of her quotes
| Quote: |
| FIRST THING IS FIRST! I CAN PIT WHAT EVER THE HELL I WANT IN MY SOCIAL MEDIA ACCOUNT! I LOVE SHARING MY LIFE AND WHAT IM DOING WITH MY FANS AND FRIENDS! It's called making a connection to my fans and friends! I am gay and I will talk and post about it! So this is to a certain person in my family!!!!!!! YOU CAN RUN AND TELL THIS TO ANOTHER PERSON IN MY CLOSE FAMILY! Get over what I do and post its my life you don't like it!! YOU CAN GLADLY LEAVE OUT MY LIFE OR GET SOME BALLS AND SAY IT TO MY FACE! I swear it's so sad that you have to realize that there are snakes in your family that stay in the dark and try to bite you and they smile in your face say they love you but talk behind your back! !! THE END! |
Glory on the other hand is very respectful and level headed(on social media).I understand Griner has put up with a lot of bullsh*t,but publicly lashing out at family members and your followers is not a good look.I don't believe Glory is totally innocent.Griner had a fair share of bumps,bruises,bite marks and scratches on her body.Johnson does deserve some culpability,but how much ?
For what it's worth,Johnson is attending domestic violence counseling with Griner.So I think she understands the severity of the situation.I wish them both the best.I just don't think it's going to end well.
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bballgrl
Joined: 15 Sep 2007
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| Posted: 05/16/15 11:19 pm ::: |
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| zune69 wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| zune69 wrote: |
| Glory should appeal the suspension.Unlike Griner,Johnson did not plead guilty to any charge. |
So what?
First, her case is still pending.
Second, the outcome of her criminal case isn't dispositive in the WNBA's disciplinary determination.
Just because she didn't step up and deal with it doesn't mean she shouldn't be suspened.
Maybe she she be suspended more for failing to accept responsibility. |
Or maybe Johnson doesn't want to take responsibility for a altercation she did not instigate ?
Griner at times comes off as a hot head ,and seems to be very confrontational.I'm looking at her instagram feed and she's verbally aggressive towards many of the posters
This is just one of her quotes
| Quote: |
| FIRST THING IS FIRST! I CAN PIT WHAT EVER THE HELL I WANT IN MY SOCIAL MEDIA ACCOUNT! I LOVE SHARING MY LIFE AND WHAT IM DOING WITH MY FANS AND FRIENDS! It's called making a connection to my fans and friends! I am gay and I will talk and post about it! So this is to a certain person in my family!!!!!!! YOU CAN RUN AND TELL THIS TO ANOTHER PERSON IN MY CLOSE FAMILY! Get over what I do and post its my life you don't like it!! YOU CAN GLADLY LEAVE OUT MY LIFE OR GET SOME BALLS AND SAY IT TO MY FACE! I swear it's so sad that you have to realize that there are snakes in your family that stay in the dark and try to bite you and they smile in your face say they love you but talk behind your back! !! THE END! |
Glory on the other hand is very respectful and level headed(on social media).I understand Griner has put up with a lot of bullsh*t,but publicly lashing out at family members and your followers is not a good look.I don't believe Glory is totally innocent.Griner had a fair share of bumps,bruises,bite marks and scratches on her body.Johnson does deserve some culpability,but how much ?
For what it's worth,Johnson is attending domestic violence counseling with Griner.So I think she understands the severity of the situation.I wish them both the best.I just don't think it's going to end well. |
re Johnson not wanting to take responsibility for an altercation she did not start- in Ritchie's detailed statement she said "the fight started when GLORY pushed Griner and Griner pushed her back".
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so don't look for them to go out of their way to help spur interest by upping programing 
