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Where Do You Rank Candace Parker Among The All-Time Greats?
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Candace Ranks Within The...
Top 5
13%
 13%  [ 12 ]
Top 10
27%
 27%  [ 25 ]
Top 20
47%
 47%  [ 44 ]
Top 40
11%
 11%  [ 11 ]
Total Votes : 92

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Genero36



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PostPosted: 04/23/15 10:00 am    ::: Where Do You Rank Candace Parker Among The All-Time Greats? Reply Reply with quote


2x Olympic Gold Medalist
2x WNBA MVP
2x NCAA Champion
All-Star MVP
WNBA Rookie of the Year
2x Wooden Award Winner
Female Athlete of the Year (2008)
5x All-WNBA (4x First Team)
2x Rebounding Champion


<embed><iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/9T-94yOC9w0?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe></embed>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T-94yOC9w0


jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 04/23/15 10:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Let's not get too specific or anything with the polling answers. I need a nice range to feel comfortable. Feeling a bit constrained with the possible choices. Maybe open it up a little. Very Happy


pilight



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PostPosted: 04/23/15 10:29 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

You mean among WNBA players? Top 20, borderline top 10. Among every woman who has ever played the game? Top 40, maybe sneaking in to the bottom of the top 20.



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PostPosted: 04/23/15 10:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Is she the first women's basketball player whose legacy could be negatively affected by 'never having won it all', a la Barkley, Malone etc.? Is that a sign of the WNBA's progress or development as part of the established landscape?



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pilight



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PostPosted: 04/23/15 11:06 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
Is she the first women's basketball player whose legacy could be negatively affected by 'never having won it all', a la Barkley, Malone etc.? Is that a sign of the WNBA's progress or development as part of the established landscape?


Chamique Holdsclaw might be able to claim first on that. Of course her legacy has so many outside influences that not winning a WNBA championship winds up a secondary issue.

Margo Dydek gets some of it as well.



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#Occasionalwnbafan



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PostPosted: 04/23/15 11:12 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If anyone has Parker outside the top 10 I'd like to see 9 players that are better then her. The only thing she's missing is a WNBA title and I'm sure she'll get one, probably not with the Sparks tho.
Hoops9092



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PostPosted: 04/23/15 11:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The hype of Parker coming into Tennessee and the hype of Parker coming into the WNBA seemed to have been unparalleled.

Winning the MVP and Rookie of the Year as a Rookie was absolutely incredible.

I think she needs to win a title or two to really solidify herself amongst the greats but I think she is right there, easily top 10 in my book, in fact perhaps even top 5.

The college and WNBA dunks, the 6'5 versatility, the MVP as a Rookie, her success at Tennessee, McDonald's AA Dunk, USA Basketball Golds - easily top 10


pilight



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PostPosted: 04/23/15 11:24 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

#Occasionalwnbafan wrote:
If anyone has Parker outside the top 10 I'd like to see 9 players that are better then her. The only thing she's missing is a WNBA title and I'm sure she'll get one, probably not with the Sparks tho.


I got to nine with barely any effort at all. Alphabetically:

Tamika Catchings
Cynthia Cooper
Yolanda Griffith
Lauren Jackson
Lisa Leslie
Katie Smith
Sheryl Swoopes
Diana Taurasi
Tina Thompson

Parker might get the 10th spot, but it could just as easily go to Sue Bird or Maya Moore or Becky Hammon or even Swin Cash, depending on what you consider important.



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I mean, we’re in a difficult spot because we love playing at home and we love this league, and it’s not for the money. So then you could also argue, if it’s not for the money, then why are you leaving?
jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 04/23/15 11:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
#Occasionalwnbafan wrote:
If anyone has Parker outside the top 10 I'd like to see 9 players that are better then her. The only thing she's missing is a WNBA title and I'm sure she'll get one, probably not with the Sparks tho.


I got to nine with barely any effort at all. Alphabetically:

Tamika Catchings
Cynthia Cooper
Yolanda Griffith
Lauren Jackson
Lisa Leslie
Katie Smith
Sheryl Swoopes
Diana Taurasi
Tina Thompson

Parker might get the 10th spot, but it could just as easily go to Sue Bird or Maya Moore or Becky Hammon or even Swin Cash, depending on what you consider important.


lol


#Occasionalwnbafan



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PostPosted: 04/23/15 12:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
#Occasionalwnbafan wrote:
If anyone has Parker outside the top 10 I'd like to see 9 players that are better then her. The only thing she's missing is a WNBA title and I'm sure she'll get one, probably not with the Sparks tho.


I got to nine with barely any effort at all. Alphabetically:

Tamika Catchings
Cynthia Cooper
Yolanda Griffith
Lauren Jackson
Lisa Leslie
Katie Smith
Sheryl Swoopes
Diana Taurasi
Tina Thompson

Parker might get the 10th spot, but it could just as easily go to Sue Bird or Maya Moore or Becky Hammon or even Swin Cash, depending on what you consider important.


I'd take Parker over both Griffith, Catchings, and Smith I think she stacks up well vs all 3, only thing she's missing is a WNBA title.
pilight



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PostPosted: 04/23/15 12:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

#Occasionalwnbafan wrote:
pilight wrote:
#Occasionalwnbafan wrote:
If anyone has Parker outside the top 10 I'd like to see 9 players that are better then her. The only thing she's missing is a WNBA title and I'm sure she'll get one, probably not with the Sparks tho.


I got to nine with barely any effort at all. Alphabetically:

Tamika Catchings
Cynthia Cooper
Yolanda Griffith
Lauren Jackson
Lisa Leslie
Katie Smith
Sheryl Swoopes
Diana Taurasi
Tina Thompson

Parker might get the 10th spot, but it could just as easily go to Sue Bird or Maya Moore or Becky Hammon or even Swin Cash, depending on what you consider important.


I'd take Parker over both Griffith, Catchings, and Smith I think she stacks up well vs all 3, only thing she's missing is a WNBA title.


She's missing a lot of intensity and leadership compared to those three, and really everyone I have listed. Parker has talent aplenty, but she doesn't get the most out of it and she certainly doesn't use it to make her team or teammates better. No way I would pass up the Tamikaze in favor of Lazy Ace.



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I mean, we’re in a difficult spot because we love playing at home and we love this league, and it’s not for the money. So then you could also argue, if it’s not for the money, then why are you leaving?
Richyyy



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PostPosted: 04/23/15 12:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Yeah, I think it's at least fair to say that she ranks notably higher in the Top X Most Gifted Female Basketball Players than she does in the Top X Greatest list.



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zune69



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PostPosted: 04/23/15 1:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Top 10 greatest players that never won a championship.She is one of the top 3 individual talents of all-time.


MuneravenMN



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PostPosted: 04/23/15 3:00 pm    ::: Outside Top Ten Reply Reply with quote

The truth is that she has never blown me away as an opponent. What I mean is: There are players you kind hate to see come in to your team's house because they can take over a game and rip it away even when your team is playing well. Parker is really talented, but I have never been worried about her taking over a game like, say, LLL or Taurasi might. I've never felt like a good team just could not stop her. Not like Katie Smith going on a tear. Not like Sue Bird used to do.

I can't explain it very well. It's just this higher level of balling...the one Jordan, Magic, and Bird could put on display in the NBA. That ability to make the other team look like rookies because nothing they do can stop GREATNESS.

I just don't feel Parker is in that elite class that can bring the unstoppable.



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ucdt3



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PostPosted: 04/23/15 4:56 pm    ::: Re: Outside Top Ten Reply Reply with quote

MuneravenMN wrote:
I just don't feel Parker is in that elite class that can bring the unstoppable.


Because most of the time she's the one getting in her own way.
ucdt3



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PostPosted: 04/23/15 4:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Top 5 - BAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA (yeah right, homer votes).
Top 10 - No way, not until she LEADS a WNBA to a WNBA title.
Top 20 - I voted for that just based on her pure talent and NCAA/USA accomplishments. But I could find 20 (ALL-TIME) better.
Top 40(50) - Definitely.
p_d_swanson



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PostPosted: 04/23/15 7:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

#Occasionalwnbafan wrote:
Griffith, Catchings, and Smith

If the WNBA had a historical All-Defensive First Team, those three would be on it...


NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 04/23/15 9:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It's kind of hard to compare a player whose career is part-way through to players whose careers are finished.

Personally I also think she takes some unfair criticism. Put Taurasi with some of the Phoenix teams of the last several years, and multiply that over her entire career. If she's never a champion perhaps her greatness is diminished. On the other hand, put her with Cappie early in her career and Griner last year, and she's won championships. Parker's situation has some similarities. Some of these LA teams have been good but you need more than one superstar to win a title usually.



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Luuuc



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PostPosted: 04/23/15 9:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
It's kind of hard to compare a player whose career is part-way through to players whose careers are finished.

Personally I also think she takes some unfair criticism. Put Taurasi with some of the Phoenix teams of the last several years, and multiply that over her entire career. If she's never a champion perhaps her greatness is diminished. On the other hand, put her with Cappie early in her career and Griner last year, and she's won championships. Parker's situation has some similarities. Some of these LA teams have been good but you need more than one superstar to win a title usually.

Well put. Her story is not yet written and there is still plenty of time for her to elevate her own status into that very top group of players. And actually this season looks like an excellent opportunity for her to do that with the Sparks.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 04/23/15 9:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

she BARELY makes my top 10.

1. Swoopes
2. Cooper
3. Leslie
4. Jackson
5. Taurasi
6. Catchings
7. Thompson
8. Griffith
9. Maya Moore
10. Parker
11. Katie Smith
12. Bird
13. McWilliams-Franklin



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zune69



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PostPosted: 04/24/15 6:23 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
she BARELY makes my top 10.

1. Swoopes
2. Cooper
3. Leslie
4. Jackson
5. Taurasi
6. Catchings
7. Thompson
8. Griffith
9. Maya Moore
10. Parker
11. Katie Smith
12. Bird
13. McWilliams-Franklin


There's no way I would rank Parker above whalen or Bird.Their impact goes far beyond points and rebounds.I understand it's hard to compare a pg to a pf,but the intangibles that Bird & Whalen bring to the table far exceed the individual greatness of Parker.There are aspects of the game that separate Bird/whalen from Candace Parker:

1.Leadershp/Verbal communication skills.
2.calming influence on the rest of the team
3.Clutch shot making ability.
4.Running the offense and not settling for low percentage shots
5.Not hanging their heads or walking off the court in an indignant manner.
6.Bird and whalen make their teammates better.

Not to mention,they both have won multiple championships.

Based on talent alone,Parker is the clear choice.But when you look at the accumulated resume in addition to the intangibles,Bird & whalen > Parker.

Of course.this is your list.So my opinion is irrelevant.


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PostPosted: 04/24/15 6:53 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Injury prone and never translated her game to great team success except the one year with Leslie as her mentor.

I have her 12th 13th and if you got her lower I will respect that while if you have her higher than 10th Id respectfully disagree.



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cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 04/24/15 7:48 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
#Occasionalwnbafan wrote:
pilight wrote:
#Occasionalwnbafan wrote:
If anyone has Parker outside the top 10 I'd like to see 9 players that are better then her. The only thing she's missing is a WNBA title and I'm sure she'll get one, probably not with the Sparks tho.


I got to nine with barely any effort at all. Alphabetically:

Tamika Catchings
Cynthia Cooper
Yolanda Griffith
Lauren Jackson
Lisa Leslie
Katie Smith
Sheryl Swoopes
Diana Taurasi
Tina Thompson

Parker might get the 10th spot, but it could just as easily go to Sue Bird or Maya Moore or Becky Hammon or even Swin Cash, depending on what you consider important.


I'd take Parker over both Griffith, Catchings, and Smith I think she stacks up well vs all 3, only thing she's missing is a WNBA title.


She's missing a lot of intensity and leadership compared to those three, and really everyone I have listed. Parker has talent aplenty, but she doesn't get the most out of it and she certainly doesn't use it to make her team or teammates better. No way I would pass up the Tamikaze in favor of Lazy Ace.


A perfect summation, imo.

As good as she's been, she c/should have been a whole lot better. It's always been between the ears w/ her.



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jap



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PostPosted: 04/24/15 8:39 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I still rank Cheryl Miller above them all.



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sambista



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PostPosted: 04/24/15 8:48 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
Yeah, I think it's at least fair to say that she ranks notably higher in the Top X Most Gifted Female Basketball Players than she does in the Top X Greatest list.


i'll vote for this one.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 04/24/15 9:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jap wrote:
I still rank Cheryl Miller above them all.


I was only considering WNBA achievements and had her as borderline top 10.



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 04/24/15 9:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
#Occasionalwnbafan wrote:
If anyone has Parker outside the top 10 I'd like to see 9 players that are better then her. The only thing she's missing is a WNBA title and I'm sure she'll get one, probably not with the Sparks tho.


I got to nine with barely any effort at all. Alphabetically:

Tamika Catchings
Cynthia Cooper
Yolanda Griffith
Lauren Jackson
Lisa Leslie
Katie Smith
Sheryl Swoopes
Diana Taurasi
Tina Thompson

Parker might get the 10th spot, but it could just as easily go to Sue Bird or Maya Moore or Becky Hammon or even Swin Cash, depending on what you consider important.


You come up ith that list and leave Cheryl Miller and Nancy Lieberman off? Both top 5.

And even with her short history I'd already put Griner in the top 10 of all time.

And no, Parker isn't close.


pilight



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PostPosted: 04/24/15 9:43 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
pilight wrote:
#Occasionalwnbafan wrote:
If anyone has Parker outside the top 10 I'd like to see 9 players that are better then her. The only thing she's missing is a WNBA title and I'm sure she'll get one, probably not with the Sparks tho.


I got to nine with barely any effort at all. Alphabetically:

Tamika Catchings
Cynthia Cooper
Yolanda Griffith
Lauren Jackson
Lisa Leslie
Katie Smith
Sheryl Swoopes
Diana Taurasi
Tina Thompson

Parker might get the 10th spot, but it could just as easily go to Sue Bird or Maya Moore or Becky Hammon or even Swin Cash, depending on what you consider important.


You come up ith that list and leave Cheryl Miller and Nancy Lieberman off? Both top 5.

And even with her short history I'd already put Griner in the top 10 of all time.

And no, Parker isn't close.


I was only considering WNBA achievements.



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PostPosted: 04/24/15 10:10 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't think it's fair to compare players who are still active with those who have retired ...

Solon told Croesus "Count no man happy until he be dead ...," and retirement is a kind of athletic death.



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 04/24/15 10:15 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
I don't think it's fair to compare players who are still active with those who have retired ...

Solon told Croesus "Count no man happy until he be dead ...," and retirement is a kind of athletic death.


I'm not so sure. If you were doing this for men would you really leave Labron and Kobe and Duncan out of the discussion?


myrtle



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PostPosted: 04/24/15 10:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sambista wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
Yeah, I think it's at least fair to say that she ranks notably higher in the Top X Most Gifted Female Basketball Players than she does in the Top X Greatest list.


i'll vote for this one.


yeah, me too. amazing talent. with amazing talent you expect amazing results.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 04/24/15 10:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
As good as she's been, she c/should have been a whole lot better. It's always been between the ears w/ her.


I'm not sure that's where I would place it. Her rookie year she looked like she would be a transformative player. People might quibble about whether she should have won MVP but she was unquestionably a strong, viable candidate. Then she got pregnant and she hasn't been the same since. Childbirth seems to have taken some of her competitive fire.



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PostPosted: 04/24/15 11:02 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Great talent, but definitely not top 10 when you start talking GOAT, even if you restrict it to WNBA (and maybe ABL, since it was contemporary). For her flashes of greatness (and a solid rookie year) I have her in top 20. She is missing that solid leadership ability, in my opinion. It's nothing personal. She's still an excellent player. It's just not in her wheelhouse. She can still be a good teammate and important contributor.

She has been in a difficult position re: coaching carousel, surrounding talent, etc. But Holdsclaw has had a wicked row to hoe, and I'd potentially put her above Parker on my list.



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PostPosted: 04/24/15 11:19 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
jap wrote:
I still rank Cheryl Miller above them all.


I was only considering WNBA achievements and had her as borderline top 10.


Perhaps so, but the title didn't restrict this to the WNBA.



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PostPosted: 04/24/15 1:10 pm    ::: Re: Outside Top Ten Reply Reply with quote

MuneravenMN wrote:
The truth is that she has never blown me away as an opponent. What I mean is: There are players you kind hate to see come in to your team's house because they can take over a game and rip it away even when your team is playing well. Parker is really talented, but I have never been worried about her taking over a game like, say, LLL or Taurasi might. I've never felt like a good team just could not stop her. Not like Katie Smith going on a tear. Not like Sue Bird used to do.

I can't explain it very well. It's just this higher level of balling...the one Jordan, Magic, and Bird could put on display in the NBA. That ability to make the other team look like rookies because nothing they do can stop GREATNESS.

I just don't feel Parker is in that elite class
that can bring the unstoppable.


Not taking anything away from LLL or Katie Smith But ive seen parker take over many games. WCF Game 3 vs Minny 2013 although a losing effort this game showed how special a player she is . id Rank her Top 5 most influential to this sport with Miller Leib and DT and Swoopes Or Cooper



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jap



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PostPosted: 04/24/15 1:34 pm    ::: Re: Outside Top Ten Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
MuneravenMN wrote:
The truth is that she has never blown me away as an opponent. What I mean is: There are players you kind hate to see come in to your team's house because they can take over a game and rip it away even when your team is playing well. Parker is really talented, but I have never been worried about her taking over a game like, say, LLL or Taurasi might. I've never felt like a good team just could not stop her. Not like Katie Smith going on a tear. Not like Sue Bird used to do.

I can't explain it very well. It's just this higher level of balling...the one Jordan, Magic, and Bird could put on display in the NBA. That ability to make the other team look like rookies because nothing they do can stop GREATNESS.

I just don't feel Parker is in that elite class
that can bring the unstoppable.


Not taking anything away from LLL or Katie Smith But ive seen parker take over many games. WCF Game 3 vs Minny 2013 although a losing effort this game showed how special a player she is . id Rank her Top 5 most influential to this sport with Miller Leib and DT and Swoopes Or Cooper


Unfortunately, when CP3 is on fire like that, too oftentimes she seems to be playing almost by herself. That WCF Game 3 left no question who was the best looking player on the floor that day.

Moving forward, I hope that a more balanced team will allow to see the best in Candace come out.



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p_d_swanson



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PostPosted: 04/24/15 7:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

There was no Western Conference Finals Game 3 in 2013, but if you're talking about the Sparks' Game 2 loss in 2012, yes, she was pretty good that day...


jap



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PostPosted: 04/24/15 11:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

p_d_swanson wrote:
There was no Western Conference Finals Game 3 in 2013, but if you're talking about the Sparks' Game 2 loss in 2012, yes, she was pretty good that day...


Thanks, PD. I was too lazy to confirm the exact game and just went along with WNBA_09. I guess we both have fuzzy memories. Wink



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PostPosted: 04/25/15 12:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The problem with rating WNBA players is that we still have only one generation. For major league baseball you have to play 10 years to even get on the Hall of Fame ballot. Almost every player that should be considered lost some years at the start or is still playing.

Another problem is divorcing their college play from their pro play. And as we move forward foreign play may also become a consideration, particularly as some top talents decide not to play in the league for at least part of their career.

Candace Parker clearly gets an incomplete as of now. She is highly talented and has at times looked like the superstar she was in college, but more often than not she doesn't seem fully invested. The Sparks have gone downhill since she got there. They have had some talent but it hasn't been well utilized. This may be due to the front office, coaching or something else, but Parker hasn't made things better. Sitting out the start of the season may be just what she needs in an overall sense, but it doesn't help her standing in the WNBA.

Parker is a top 10 all time college player, but no better than top 40 WNBA so far.


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PostPosted: 04/25/15 1:05 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
As good as she's been, she c/should have been a whole lot better. It's always been between the ears w/ her.

I'm not sure that's where I would place it. Her rookie year she looked like she would be a transformative player. People might quibble about whether she should have won MVP but she was unquestionably a strong, viable candidate. Then she got pregnant and she hasn't been the same since. Childbirth seems to have taken some of her competitive fire.


I was thinking along those same lines, too; it may sound sexist, but being a mother AND having a husband as a pro athlete can be....well....a distraction. I actually think she's balanced it pretty well, as have many other WNBA moms/wives.

And it's really not about juggling schedules and other mundane-but-taxing details: it's more about how having a child shifts one's focus on what's MOST important, and which *passions* will get the lion's share of your energies. Frankly, if Sheldon and Laila are her priorities over her career, I can get that. Let's face it, Candace doesn't need the money anymore.

That said, I DO think she could make the Top 10 if one considers OVERALL Impact On The Game. Candace has been a Game Changer since her TN days. Her remarkable skill set and her stage presence have combined to give the game a significant profile boost before Griner and Diggins came along.

Her biggest 'flaw', imo, is her mental game. I s'pose it's related to not being familiar with losing too much in her pre-pro career: with her skills and her coaching, she never got much practice at that. So now, when LA is in a tight game, or momentum shifts, or whatever, she often doesn't demonstrate the Iron Guts of a Katie Smith or a DT or a Catch. But I also don't follow LA's games that closely--maybe I'm way off on that.

Overall, tho? She's been good for The Game. Real Good. Cool



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PostPosted: 04/25/15 11:25 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

To me, the top three women basketball players are Cheryl Miller, Cynthia Cooper and Diana Taurasi. CP3 is not there yet. Is she top 10, probably. Is she top 5, no, but could be. Can she bump Cheryl, Cynthia or Diana, She has the talent, but I am not sure about the drive.

I am happy she is a Spark, and look forward to her return.


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PostPosted: 04/25/15 1:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Parker frustrates me. She's such a gifted basketball player, and there are very few female players in history with her combination of size, coordination and mobility. You can think she's having a pretty crappy game, then check the box score and she's got 20 and 10, often pretty efficiently. But it always feels like there could be more. Like she could play more defense, or be more focussed at the key times, or produce more consistently from game-to-game or minute-to-minute, or make smarter decisions.

Maybe she has the skills but doesn't have the greatest 'basketball brain' in the world. Maybe she just doesn't care quite as much as some of the true greats. Maybe I'm being a bit unfair. But even if she wins a WNBA title or two, I feel like when she retires I'll be disappointed by the sum total of her career. Because it'll feel like it could've been better.



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PostPosted: 04/25/15 1:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
Parker frustrates me. She's such a gifted basketball player, and there are very few female players in history with her combination of size, coordination and mobility. You can think she's having a pretty crappy game, then check the box score and she's got 20 and 10, often pretty efficiently. But it always feels like there could be more. Like she could play more defense, or be more focussed at the key times, or produce more consistently from game-to-game or minute-to-minute, or make smarter decisions.

Maybe she has the skills but doesn't have the greatest 'basketball brain' in the world. Maybe she just doesn't care quite as much as some of the true greats. Maybe I'm being a bit unfair. But even if she wins a WNBA title or two, I feel like when she retires I'll be disappointed by the sum total of her career. Because it'll feel like it could've been better.


x_____________x Well said.

P.S. Also she is a Spark, which is an automatic deduction.



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PostPosted: 04/25/15 5:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This is gonna be long, folks. My apologies in advance for this.

Howee wrote:
pilight wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
As good as she's been, she c/should have been a whole lot better. It's always been between the ears w/ her.

I'm not sure that's where I would place it. Her rookie year she looked like she would be a transformative player. People might quibble about whether she should have won MVP but she was unquestionably a strong, viable candidate. Then she got pregnant and she hasn't been the same since. Childbirth seems to have taken some of her competitive fire.


I was thinking along those same lines, too; it may sound sexist, but being a mother AND having a husband as a pro athlete can be....well....a distraction. I actually think she's balanced it pretty well, as have many other WNBA moms/wives.


I think your comments are less about being sexist than about being all about reality. Priorities tend to shift dramatically when a child enters the picture.

How many WNBA moms have been consistently competitive after pregnancy? Lisa Leslie left the WNBA as the reigning MVP after the 2006 season, taking a year's sabbatical in 2007. She came back as a much diminished player, capable of dramatic play in spurts, but not much more. The dominant play was mostly gone. Marta Ferdinand-Harris never approached her former all-star playing status after she gave birth.

The two exceptions appear to be Sheryl Swoopes, who had at least two MVP seasons after pregnancy, and, to a lesser extent, Tina Thompson, who, all-star that she was, was nevertheless often playing second- or third fiddle to more dominant players. I thought Swoopes played with a much more mature Houston team that provided much more support than Ace often received.

Oftentimes, when the Rebkellian witch hunters are partaking in one of their Parker fire-burning threads, I was often thinking. "Do these crazy people realize they are talking about the mother of a young child who is still expected
to shoulder the brunt of her team's struggles on her shoulders?" The 'laziness' comments tend to really surprise me, since, until Nneka's arrival, Ace used to average consistently among the top leaders in scoring, rebounding, blocks, non-guard assists, and even steals. With Nneka's arrival, the rebounding has dipped some since Nneka has helped to shoulder some of that burden. Still, even with Nneka's presence, Ace is still always among the leaders in important categories, and she tends to do so quietly often, despite all eyes on her.

Parker has also been hurt at times by the so-called "superstar mantra," which has also afflicted NBA players like MJ and Kobe in that, at times, especially on the less-talented pro teams these players have led, when their very own teammates tend to stand around and watch to see what their superstar is going to do, rather than effectively help. This has ranged from the earliest years when teammates were surprised completely when Ace's no-look passes bounced off their heads/backs/hands to even recent times when some teammates appear to be at a loss how to act when Ace has the ball in her hands on a full court drive to the basket. I cannot see why should they act any different to a good normal PG who is driving the floor, but they often do.

There is also the multi-talented dimension to Parker that, at times, has her get in her own way. This is true of other multi-dimensional players (MJ, Kobe) or even other non-basketball super talented players (Pete Sampras, Peyton Manning, Serena) who come up with some of their greatest wins while hurt or limited in some way(s). While healthy, they may have so many options on individual plays that they over-process their options and make poor choices at times when they cannot make up their mind what they want to do. When sick or hurt, those many options become severely limited, and they make much better decisions only because there is only so much they can do. In that sense, the inability to choose the right option from all that multi-dimensional talent can make the superstars appear to be their own worst enemy---can make their sports IQ seem so much less.

For example, I recall tennis' Pete Sampras, having an injured leg at Wimbledon, and having to depend on his dominant service game to win a string of matches all the way to the championship cup. Everybody remembers MJ's sick game where Scottie Pippen had to lead him off the court afterward. Kobe had his crazy games playing with a bad hand in an improvised splint where he was forced to refine his options to deal with his limitations. Towards the end of the 2014 season, when Ace was playing hurt with a bad leg, Nneka took over tip-off duties to relieve an injured CP3. She still produced good games even though there were times it was clear she could have done more with two healthy legs. Parker is a player who has shown herself to be willing to play through injuries, and for someone with her history of injuries, some of which she has played through, I still wonder if she has still figured out what what she is fully capable of when fully healthy as an an individual player and even more so as a selfless teammate.

I have been at times been perhaps un-mercilessly hard on GM Penny Toler on some team acquisitions. If you have a dominant post, you search heaven & earth to get her a good PG. To date the only PG Candace has ever enjoyed who was a better passer than herself was an over-the-hill Ticha, and due to injuries to both, they never spent that much time on the floor together on game days. Lauren had Sue. Yoyo had prime-time Ticha. Lisa worked with a number of decent PG's from Penny & Ukari Figgs to Nikki Teasley & Sandy Brundello. In all honesty, top PG's are probably basketball's rarest commodity, but it has been so frustrating to see a talent like Ace play for the overwhelming part without a truly solid PG---and no!, Harding doesn't count as she never has been very good at passing the rock. (I really, really, really! wanted the Sparks to move heaven & earth to get Chelsea Gray!!!) LA has possessed some dominant front courts in the Parker era . . . with no solid passing PG---I mean, like, what the hell!?! All the criticisms of Ace notwithstanding, can we please get a balanced team in here sometime before she leaves?



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 04/25/15 6:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Kobe's career is pretty much done, but if he were to come back next year and average 15 a game and lead the Lakers to a first-round playoff win, that would affect his overall ranking.

If Duncan wins another title, and plays another year or two, his case gets stronger and stronger.

LeBron has such a long way to go, it's impossible to say.

I don't think we can assess Parker at this point, because what if the Sparks win three WNBA titles in the next six years? Or what if they win none?



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PostPosted: 04/25/15 6:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jap wrote:
This is gonna be long, folks. My apologies in advance for this.

Howee wrote:
pilight wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
As good as she's been, she c/should have been a whole lot better. It's always been between the ears w/ her.

I'm not sure that's where I would place it. Her rookie year she looked like she would be a transformative player. People might quibble about whether she should have won MVP but she was unquestionably a strong, viable candidate. Then she got pregnant and she hasn't been the same since. Childbirth seems to have taken some of her competitive fire.


I was thinking along those same lines, too; it may sound sexist, but being a mother AND having a husband as a pro athlete can be....well....a distraction. I actually think she's balanced it pretty well, as have many other WNBA moms/wives.


I think your comments are less about being sexist than about being all about reality. Priorities tend to shift dramatically when a child enters the picture.

How many WNBA moms have been consistently competitive after pregnancy? Lisa Leslie left the WNBA as the reigning MVP after the 2006 season, taking a year's sabbatical in 2007. She came back as a much diminished player, capable of dramatic play in spurts, but not much more. The dominant play was mostly gone. Marta Ferdinand-Harris never approached her former all-star playing status after she gave birth.

The two exceptions appear to be Sheryl Swoopes, who had at least two MVP seasons after pregnancy, and, to a lesser extent, Tina Thompson, who, all-star that she was, was nevertheless often playing second- or third fiddle to more dominant players. I thought Swoopes played with a much more mature Houston team that provided much more support than Ace often received.

Oftentimes, when the Rebkellian witch hunters are partaking in one of their Parker fire-burning threads, I was often thinking. "Do these crazy people realize they are talking about the mother of a young child who is still expected
to shoulder the brunt of her team's struggles on her shoulders?" The 'laziness' comments tend to really surprise me, since, until Nneka's arrival, Ace used to average consistently among the top leaders in scoring, rebounding, blocks, non-guard assists, and even steals. With Nneka's arrival, the rebounding has dipped some since Nneka has helped to shoulder some of that burden. Still, even with Nneka's presence, Ace is still always among the leaders in important categories, and she tends to do so quietly often, despite all eyes on her.

Parker has also been hurt at times by the so-called "superstar mantra," which has also afflicted NBA players like MJ and Kobe in that, at times, especially on the less-talented pro teams these players have led, when their very own teammates tend to stand around and watch to see what their superstar is going to do, rather than effectively help. This has ranged from the earliest years when teammates were surprised completely when Ace's no-look passes bounced off their heads/backs/hands to even recent times when some teammates appear to be at a loss how to act when Ace has the ball in her hands on a full court drive to the basket. I cannot see why should they act any different to a good normal PG who is driving the floor, but they often do.

There is also the multi-talented dimension to Parker that, at times, has her get in her own way. This is true of other multi-dimensional players (MJ, Kobe) or even other non-basketball super talented players (Pete Sampras, Peyton Manning, Serena) who come up with some of their greatest wins while hurt or limited in some way(s). While healthy, they may have so many options on individual plays that they over-process their options and make poor choices at times when they cannot make up their mind what they want to do. When sick or hurt, those many options become severely limited, and they make much better decisions only because there is only so much they can do. In that sense, the inability to choose the right option from all that multi-dimensional talent can make the superstars appear to be their own worst enemy---can make their sports IQ seem so much less.

For example, I recall tennis' Pete Sampras, having an injured leg at Wimbledon, and having to depend on his dominant service game to win a string of matches all the way to the championship cup. Everybody remembers MJ's sick game where Scottie Pippen had to lead him off the court afterward. Kobe had his crazy games playing with a bad hand in an improvised splint where he was forced to refine his options to deal with his limitations. Towards the end of the 2014 season, when Ace was playing hurt with a bad leg, Nneka took over tip-off duties to relieve an injured CP3. She still produced good games even though there were times it was clear she could have done more with two healthy legs. Parker is a player who has shown herself to be willing to play through injuries, and for someone with her history of injuries, some of which she has played through, I still wonder if she has still figured out what what she is fully capable of when fully healthy as an an individual player and even more so as a selfless teammate.

I have been at times been perhaps un-mercilessly hard on Penny on some team acquisitions. If you have a dominant post, you search heaven & earth to get her a good PG. To date the only PG Candace has ever enjoyed who was a better passer than herself was an over-the-hill Ticha, and due to injuries to both, they never spent that much time on the floor together on game days. Lauren had Sue. Yoyo had prime-time Ticha. Lisa worked with a number of decent PG's from Penny & Ukari Figgs to Nikki Teasley & Sandy Brundello. In all honesty, top PG's are probably basketball's rarest commodity, but it has been so frustrating to see a talent like Ace play for the overwhelming part without a truly solid PG---and NO, Harding doesn't count as she never has been very good at passing the rock. (I really, really, really! wanted the Sparks to move heaven & earth to get Chelsea Gray!!!) LA has possessed some dominant front courts in the Parker era . . . with solid passing PG---I mean, like, what the hell!?! All the criticisms of Ace notwithstanding, can we please get a balanced team in here sometime before she leaves?


I agree. The teams have been very imbalanced. Last year particularly, when Harding went from being adequate to being unproductive. And Toliver never really seemed integrated into the team even when she was there. It's hard to win without outside shooting.

And say what you want about Parker's defense, but:

A) She was asked to play a small portion of that time out of position at center.

B) Historically, if you look at P_D_'s numbers, LA's defensive points per possession are usually if not always better in the years when Parker has been playing and healthy as opposed to years when she has been hurt and missed time.



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PostPosted: 04/25/15 7:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

on my list she is #11...



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PostPosted: 04/25/15 11:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Yeah, I can't imagine how anyone could expect a team heavily tilted towards the front court with a PG no better than Lindsey Harding to get to the WNBA finals. How big a superstar would it take to make that happen?



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PostPosted: 04/25/15 11:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Yeah, I can't imagine how anyone could expect a team heavily tilted towards the front court with a PG no better than Lindsey Harding to get to the WNBA finals. How big a superstar would it take to make that happen?


It's better to be lucky than good. Very Happy


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PostPosted: 04/25/15 11:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Yeah, I can't imagine how anyone could expect a team heavily tilted towards the front court with a PG no better than Lindsey Harding to get to the WNBA finals. How big a superstar would it take to make that happen?


Lindsey had one decent year with the Sparks. She disappeared for the most part last year with respect to good play. Besides, the Sparks had other issues, like Kristi having a mostly off year, Jantel disappearing at key points despite greatly improved play, Sandrine Gruda not integrating well with the team, Candice Wiggins getting injured early and never really establishing her play.



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