RebKell's Junkie Boards

[J-Spoon]

I think Liberty fans were too depressed at the end of the season to bother with one of these, but now that some time has passed, and every other team seems to have one, it is time to come up with a plan for the Liberty in 2015.

Plan for 2015
Hope everyone comes back healthy!
Hope Cruz comes back period!
Build around Charles and Pondexter (in that order).
A. Montgomery is a RFA, so make some decision there.
Find a player at #16 in the draft.
Scour free agency, players not in the league, and the waiver wire to find our Larkins or Breland success story (hey both those players were on the Liberty once its our turn to spin someone's straw into gold).

Any thoughts on moves we can make to better ourselves, feel free to be creative, I think we're going to have to be creative, hoping for health and a little luck isn't really going to give New York fans much to talk about until training camp.

[myrtle]

I think the good news is that PG and C are the rarest commodities and that is where the Lib are fairly solid, especially if Cruz comes back. There tend to be quite a few possibilities at the other positions. Probably the most important thing is to somehow get Cappie back on track but don't ask me how to do that.

I've never been impressed with Montgomery. A sign and trade would be optimal IMO.

Plenette is still useful in limited minutes.

Hopefully Essence re-finds her mojo. I really think this is possible - it just takes longer for some players than others.

Sugar is scary but probably a keeper.

The rest can just ride off into the sunset. I think a random nine players off the scrap heap wouldn't be worse.

Cruz/ ?
Cappie/Sugar
Essence/ ?
?? / PPP/ maybe Warley
Tina/ ?

Lots of ?? there, but the biggest is a starting PF. Could anything of value be gotten for Montgomery? Probably not enough but it's about all there is. How about Montgomery for Jackson-Jones. Tiff was well liked when she was in NY before and maybe she can regain form. Or maybe Montgomery for Griffin.

Yeah, the scrap heap will have to be scoured. Maybe a gem in Europe from a country not good enough to be in the Euros...

It's kind of depressing.

_________________
For there is always light,
if only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
- Amanda Gorman

[ClayK]

It's true of all pro sports -- you have to get top picks to build through the draft, and if you're like the Liberty, you're always in the middle. And there's just nothing you can do unless you get lucky.

And when a superstar fades into above average, it makes it even worse.

The Lib's picks:

2014: Alyssa Thomas
2013: Kelsey Bone

Worth the deal for Tina Charles

2012: Kelley Cain (but not much after her; Damiris Dantas and Tiffany Hayes the only two, really)
2011: Alex Montgomery (serviceable for an 11 pick; Danielle Adams, Jasmine Thomas, Jessica Breland picked later)
2010: No pick
2009: Kia Vaughn (solid at 9; Shavonte Zellous the only one below her)
2008: Essence Carson (good at 7; Larkins the only potential better pick, but who knew?)
2007: Tiffany Jackson (Ivory Latta, Camille Little?)
2006: Sherill Baker (Mistie Bass)
2005: Loree Moore (Tanisha Wright, Erin Phillips)

_________________
Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā

[Shades]

[J-Spoon]

[J-Spoon]

So now all my crazy A. Montgomery trade ideas.

In all seriousness I'm going to try and be realistic, but I have no illusions that probably none of thes trades actually happen, I'm also not sure if they improve the Liberty by any real margin but I'm going to try and target players I think we could get, that if things fell into place could contribute at least as much as Alex did this year, or more.

Also I actually like A. Montgomery i just think she is the only piece we have that we would be willing to trade, that might be able to get something in return, everyone else is either too old, too injured from the previous season, or an untouchable building block, or in Pondexter's case a little bit of all of the above. And while I think the coach/GM may be in win now mode I think it is simply too risky to put our 2016 1st round pick up on the block, so I'm not going to consider trade ideas for the pick (for now).

OK here we go

A. Montgomory to

Atl for the #10 pick
Chicago for Gatling (or Faulkner)
Conn for R. Montgomery
Indiana for Kizer (or Lucas)
Washington for Hawkins

LA for Wiggins
Minnesota for Peters (or #11 pick)
PX for the #12 pick
SA for #9 pick
Seattle for Quinn (or Rolle)
Tulsa for Tiff JJ (maybe with Her just coming back from injury with Sims and Diggins on board Tulsa would be willing to move R. Williams for a defensive sf who can shoot the 3, but that is wishful thinking.)

My 3 favorites and the places I think that would like Montgomery the most on the list are Atlanta for the #10 then we can get Hamby at #10 and still pick up a back up PG like A. Orrange at #16, and Montgomery can back up Angel and shoot 3s for Atl off the bench. Wiggins who I've always though would work well with Pondexter and Laimbeer, and who I think Laimbeer has targeted in the past and Montgomery could be a good back up at the 3 and 2 for LA playing behind Beard and pairing up with Toliver on defense in the back-court or shooting 3s in the 2nd unit, and as Myrtle pointed out maybe Tiff J can get her mojo back in NY and Tulsa needs a defensive 3 who doesn't need to shoot who could play beside Diggins and Sims or come in next to R. Williams.

Next installment targeting free agents, waiver wire, and player not on anyone's current roster.

[Happycappie25]

These monty trades are not off...Bill's catch 22 is this. The position that needs to be upgraded the most is 3.

The position where we have the most trade value is...3.

Right now the issues I see are:

1 and 2 are stable with Cruz and Cappie kinda switching off with Cruz as the primary 1 and cappie sliding over to play 1 when Cruz is off the court. I would like to see a 2 who's more consistent or at least someone who can share in the streakiness of Rodgers, this doesn't have to be someone big, but hey if we can get R Williams for Monty. I would keep Lacy or a lacy type (true 1 for when we just need passing) in P 12....and that outta do it...IF cruz comes back...if she doesn't or if you feel she isn't, then you need to make a move, but at this stage of her career I'm more inclined at going after an R. Williams (and if it can be done WITHOUT giving up the 2016 first rounder even Prince) and making Cappie more of a 1 than going after a pure 1 (Namely cuz I see more 2s than 1s on the block/market)

4 is stable but could use improvement. If you can trade back into the first round to get one of the stable of 4s there I think you can do it. I will say Stokes seems to be more of a 5 to me and well you don't need a 5 with Talbert. But if a big name 4 comes on the market that we can get, you do it. Pierson is 36 and can only play 20-24 minutes a game with her knees. Talbert is a potboiler at best but an important one. Not a slight at McKinney who worked very hard to make the roster but really you don't need a backup 5 with Charles, having a 4/5 who can take over for pierson and eat fouls and keep Charles out of foul trouble makes more sense than a lumbering pure 5 who is only there for 3-6 minutes a game. Use that luxury for guard depth which allows you to have streaky players like Rodgers as your backup. Basically unless something really sexy shows up at 4, you hold for this year but try to get a 4 project behind pierson through your pick in the 2nd round, or try to trade back into the first.

So 3's the magic number, there has to be a consistent 10ppg threat somewhere on this team to take the load off Charles and Cappie. Pierson can score 10-12 off the bench on occasion and that's good we won the games where she did so...but we need a consistent threat there. We have 3 options really

Gamble on Carson

Move Carson

Find a 2nd Carson

Option 1: I like this the least. I don't trust Carson to come back at all...in a perversion I'd rather see her playing overseas to show me she has ANYTHING left of the old Carson to matter. I am of the firm belief that we had her at even at even a 6-8ppg average with consistent defense, we win at least 2 more games, make the playoffs and do more than get swept. There's a reason she went all the way from P3 to P12 and it wasn't just the knees as the team would like you to believe. The knee made her change her mechanics and I saw enough wild shots to wonder if she'd ever regain form. This is too risky.

Option 2: Would another team gamble on Carson. Perhaps Tulsa would be my questionable player (R. Williams) with bad knees for Yours. And this wouldn't be a bad trade as Williams and Rodgers I'd take as 2 halves make a whole behind cappie allowing Cruz to shoot more, Cappie to play more 1 and to have a better shot at getting pure offense off the bench. but again without any evidence...this would be a tough sell and Monty would be the better option.

Option 3: I like this better IF T. Young is a UFA...She may not have any jumper but she's Monty with more points and experience. I think Chicago goes to re-sign but is up against the cap so they have to move Prince before free agency. Trade wise, I don't see many 3s I'd want. Also if Cash retires (as all signs point to.) If you move Monty you may be dangerously thin at the 3. 3 guard sets don't work in today's W. In fact the trend is to put 4s who can shoot at the 3 (The merc as the extreme example with Taylor at the TWO, EDD as the benchmark and LA with Parker as the cautionary tale)...unless there's a europost Bill can steal off the open market, not seeing that as a viable option.

Moving monty makes sense, but again 3 is our biggest need but also our only trading position, that's not a great spot.

Now also 5 questions:

1. Will Carson play overseas to get some reps in and show she can play...the answer seems to be no.

2. Will Pondexter stay and heal up...This seems to be leaning yes and can be as big as a trade...this is what the 50k fund was set up for...player who clearly needs to take a euro year off due to injuries. now can do so without such an economic sacrifice.

3. Will Cash Retire. If she does this makes moving Monty that much more difficult, she's little more than a backup now, but she is a good placeholder. Im not going so all in on Carson to make our 3s options Carson, Draft and Scrap heap by trading monty for a player at another position.

4. What about UFAs. If Bill is going to make a splash it may be in the UFA market, who's out there who we want, we dumped Braxton and cut Mitchell early to free up move, Cash retires that leaves a little more space...this could be the place we aren't looking. So let's explore. Don't leave out Europe, he struck gold in Cruz, he could do so again.

5. Can we get Cruz back: If not, going after Prince (But don't touch that 2016 first rounder) is a big deal as Cappie at 1 becomes more ideal. Cappie may have gone downhill playing wise but she grew up and showed me something on how she played hurt and by taking more leadership. The ball hogging if you need something done right do it yourself cappie left after that one debacle early in the year. I'd rather have cruz back but figure this out NOW not Later, as it really determines more than you think.

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"Leave it to the NCAA women's basketball committee to turn a glass slipper into glass ceiling" Graham Hays

[J-Spoon]

I also agree with everything HappyCapie25 has said. Even though I've been focusing more on the PF spot as something that needs to be dealt with for the future, and I still have questions about the PG spot, but I guess if worst comes to worst and Cruz isn't available for 15 we slide a more mature Pondexter back to the 1 spot and can bring in additional 2s if need be.

The question that the above post does bring up is, can the Liberty realistically solve its problem at the 3? Is there a better option than the two headed approach of a Carson/A. Montgomery 3? If Yes who and how do we get them? If No then is it worth it to risk being even weaker at the 3 and trading Montgomery fro another piece? or should we just re-sign her and hope that combined with a healthy Carson we can get enough shooting, scoring, defense, size and athleticism out of the two of them that we should stay the course with what we have? I'm not sure, it is hard to find decent and available SFs who the Liberty could bring in. Any thoughts? Is there someone out there worth risking the 2016 pick combined with Montgomery if it means we can wrangle them in?

[myrtle]

Cappie at the one is suicide for the team.

_________________
For there is always light,
if only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
- Amanda Gorman

[NYL_WNBA_FAN]

I think the 2016 draft choice should be only up for debate under two circumstances. If it's known as training camp approaches that Carson is 100%, or Nolan signs with the Liberty and it's known that she has enough left to solidify the spot.

That way you can trade it for a 4, along with possibly Montgomery and you have a team that can contend in the East. If Pierson is next year's starter, I don't think you can trade that pick because the team would have one iffy position. As in, she might be good, but her body has been through so much now. Even if right, she really shouldn't play anymore than 20-22 minutes a night. If your 3 is already solidified without trade, and you can get a 4, then your 5 starters are all scoring threats, with PP off the bench. That would be a major step toward winning the East. Bearing in mind Laimbeer has said numerous times he is more comfortable with PP off the bench, I think a true starter at 4 is critical.

But if PP is your primary at the 4 in terms of minutes and Warley or another marginal player is still your starter and/or your 3 spot is in flux, you may or may not make the playoffs, hence in my eyes the pick is off the table in that circumstance.

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The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.

[Happycappie25]

[NYL_WNBA_FAN]

I'd be game for Langhorne. The 2016 first and Montgomery strikes me as similar in value to the Hartley/Hawkins combo yielded to get her in the first place.

Agler may not be game though. But it would put Seattle in a better position to get Stewart in terms of their own record, with an additional 2016 first rounder on the horizon. He has said he wants more size, which implies he would desire one of Little/Lang not to start anyway.

I stress I only do this if I know Carson's 100% or Nolan's here and able to contribute.

For NY not only would you get another proven scorer in the paint, but she is also an improved defensive player, who did a real solid job on Charles in NY's two games vs. Seattle last year. Even though Little has the (rightful) defensive rep, Lang was the primary defender vs. Charles when Seattle played NY last year. Plus, Langhorne has proven she can be both a complementary scorer as well as a primary one, with a high FG% either way. And I bet in NY she would learn the one thing she isn't really good at...passing. Besides that need for improvement, she's a logical fit in Laimbeer's system in a lot of ways.

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The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.

[toad455]

Nolan ain't showing up.

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LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!

Twitter: @TBRBWAY

[Michelle89]

I dont see Montgomery fitting with the Storm. She is not better then Stricklen and id probably take Clark over her tbh

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"Sue Bird and Lauren Jackson were and are the dynamic duo. They're the one-two punch. They're all the clich�s possible to describe people that perfectly complement each other, who make each other better and also bring out the best in the team." �Karen Bryant

[J-Spoon]

I doubt we could pry either of these RFA from their current teams but I'd try to throw some money at D. Adams or K. Christmas to see if we could bring either to NY.

I have no idea who might be out there as an UFA I know T. Young's name is brought up a lot which leads me to think that maybe Wiggins, Langhorne, Latta, or Herrington could be UFA in which case I'd offer them some money.

Some other plays floating around out there that I wouldn't mind seeing in training camp;

Gilbreath, (already brought up) Ty Marshall, Foggie, Mathies, Gemelos, K. Hampton I wonder if it is worth it to give Jeffreys another shot (or J.Coley or M. Simmons). There don't seem to be too many posts out there at the moment.

[J-Spoon]

Its sort of unrealistic, a little crazy and extremely ironic but one trade I would consider is the undoing of last years trade.

NY 2016 1st round pick and A. Montgomery for A. Thomas and the #4 pick
(Or just the pick for Thomas if you want to keep it simple.)

Before you laugh yourself silly Conn will have Hightower coming back, will be adding Gray to its guard core and a Hightower/A. Montgomery 3 could work well. Conn would also still have the #3 pick to add to the front court. In Montgomery they get a defensive specialist with a 3 point shot who could be a nice compliment to Conn younger roster off the bench, and then Conn would also have a second 2016 1st round pick that could get them another possible lottery pick in the Stewart lottery. Is a steady role player and a possible lottery pick in a draft with the next mega-star worth giving up a top rookie and a low lottery pick in a weaker draft? Maybe?

A. Thomas would be a great fit in NY as she has tons of potential, is a great front-court passer, and could start for NY now and in the future at the 3 or the 4.

the #4 pick could be used on a guard like Boyd or Banham or a big like Harrison, Gray or Ibiam.

Obviously this trade is risky and absurd but if you're NY and you think adding Thomas and the #4 pick to the current roster minus Montgomery is enough to get you into the playoffs then you don't have to worry about giving up the pick and Thomas is a building block for now and the future. If you end up with injuries and landing in the lottery again well then you're screwed, but TBH the current GM might lose his job if we end up in the lottery next year no matter what moves we make, so while I wouldn't risk the pick, I can see it being risked. With that said getting a player the caliber of A. Thomas would be good for the Liberty so it is a scenario where I could understand the risk. I'm not sure Conn would even consider this since Thomas and Ogwumike seem like a good pairing for their future, but maybe the allure of Stweart would be too much for them not to consider it.

Cruz/#16
Pondexter/Rodgers
A. Thomas/Carson
Pierson/#4 R. Gray
Charles/Warley-Talbert

#16 and the 11th and 12th spot need to be shooters but I could get into that team, even if it is just a fantasy.

[snlMINAJ]

cash isn't retiring
she said she's not going out like that (no playoffs, no full year with team)

she also said she wasn't able to train, prepare etc leading up to the 2014 season as she normally would. that leaves me to believe she had an injury.



i think she will be better next year, especially if laimbeer remains coach

[Youth Coach]

Just curious, will Katie Smith be back as an assistant coach?

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The Cassette Chronicles #242 - Europe - The Final Countdown

CD Review - Judas Priest - Invincible Shield


Concert Review - Ronny Munroe's Holy Dio

[myrtle]

[Shades]

Remember Jessica Adair? I wonder what's going on with her? She looked like she was going to have a bright future and now nobody even acknowledges her existence.

_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned

[kool-aide]

[J-Spoon]

So I'm against trading the 2016 pick but since it could happen these are the trades I'd be OK with.

2016 1st round pick and Montgomery for Nneka Ogwumike (doubt it but you can dream. Nneka would be the perfect front-court player to pair with Charles.)

2016 1st round pick for Bonner (I doubt a championship team would trade a starter, and I'm sure some NY fans would think this wasn't worth the risk but I've always liked Bonner, and think she's a great fit for NY at the SF spot.)

2016 1st round pick and Montgomery for Sims and Tulsa #14 pick in 2015 (Again can't see Tulsa doing this but Sims is the solution for the future at either the 1 or the 2 for NY, solves the if Cruz doesn't show issue, and her and Cappie with Charles inside is the core of a contender.)

[myrtle]

[Shades]

Spooner, the thing you don't realize the 2016 first round pick isn't very valuable if it's not a lottery pick. So the team you're trading with has to be reasonably confident that parting with their ALREADY STAR PLAYER isn't going to help your team make the playoffs.

On top of that, it's not even a Three To See (which made tanking less of a gamble for PHX), it's a Two To Know.

So the least shocking of your trades is the Bonner one. She might not help the NYL make the playoffs. Sims or Nneka most likely would. I know PHX is greedy for star players, but you would think that has subsided for at least a few more years until the next big thing comes along.

_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned

[J-Spoon]