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justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
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 Posted: 08/22/14 10:30 am ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
| So why would anyone trade anything of value for her? |
Same reason value is traded all the time. She is a good perimeter defender, is fast, and has a huge upside. Many teams will feel that given a starting role she will rise to the challenge. I mean, the Lynx got great value for Wiggins who I felt was being severely overrated.
But we are talking about a 5th or 6th pick in what many are calling a weak draft. Seems about right for a player like Wright.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 08/22/14 11:00 am ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
What they need a 6'3" or 6'4" forward who can defend (and is actually willing to play defense), rebound, and score inside, and can run the court. |
I don"t know if she's sticking around, but it sounds like you could be describing Glory Johnson.
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| I think they would be best off drafting Williams, IF (and I think that's a big if) Williams is actually serious about playing pro basketball rather than going to med school, or perhaps they'd be better off with Harrison depending on how she looks this year. |
I might be on board with Williams. People have talked about med school with players before but when does it ever win out with a serious prospect?
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| They have a young, high energy team. I fear that keeping Cambage will not fit and will not help this team move forward. |
Oh, but Paris fits nicely? Cambage just recently turned 23, and she has a load of experience at 23.
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| They should get whatever they can for her and move on. Maybe Indiana would give them either Natasha Howard or Natalie Achonwa for Cambage. I'd make that trade in one millisecond, and then draft either Williams or Harrison. |
I'm sure Indy would be intrigued by this trade, but it's not going to happen. TUL has already indicated the door is open for Cambage and they're going to work on getting her back.
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Oh, and I'd hire a full time personal trainer to spend the next nine months with Paris wherever in the world she spends that time and see if I couldn't get her at least a little bit serious about improving her conditioning. She's good now; she could really be a star with a little more effort. |
People always advise this kinda of thing but nothing ever comes of it. The only oversized player I've seen make a significant change is Jessica Adair, and she slipped out of the league with nary a peep.
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Last edited by Shades on 08/22/14 11:04 am; edited 1 time in total |
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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| Posted: 08/22/14 11:01 am ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
1. It must be an attempt to get enthusiastic about the 2015 draft, but people have been overvaluing KML all night.
2. I'm not sure about Harrison over Williams. Any reasons? Sell me on Harrison. Will she represent Tennessee as well as Simmons?
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1. agree. still as Clay says she could go #1, though I don't see it happening to Seattle. Love her as a college player, but wondering if she won't be Sidney Spencer part 2. Can really stroke it, but anything else?
2. Think GloJo, not Simmons. And unlike GloJo in college, Izzy has actually shown that she can already make layups. Personally I think E.Will is over-rated and a bit soft as well. At best, she is like JLav (who I really like)...but she doesn't have JLav's touch from midrange. The fact that she is already waffling about wanting to play would also make me scared that her heart isn't really in it and that even if she does play, she would retire early.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 08/22/14 11:16 am ::: |
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| myrtle wrote: |
| Shades wrote: |
1. It must be an attempt to get enthusiastic about the 2015 draft, but people have been overvaluing KML all night.
2. I'm not sure about Harrison over Williams. Any reasons? Sell me on Harrison. Will she represent Tennessee as well as Simmons?
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1. agree. still as Clay says she could go #1, though I don't see it happening to Seattle. Love her as a college player, but wondering if she won't be Sidney Spencer part 2. Can really stroke it, but anything else?
2. Think GloJo, not Simmons. And unlike GloJo in college, Izzy has actually shown that she can already make layups. Personally I think E.Will is over-rated and a bit soft as well. At best, she is like JLav (who I really like)...but she doesn't have JLav's touch from midrange. The fact that she is already waffling about wanting to play would also make me scared that her heart isn't really in it and that even if she does play, she would retire early.
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I think more defense and shot blocking with Williams than I do with Lavendar.
Hooper was waffling too, but it looks like she fits in at TUL, the land of opportunity.
Should TUL go All-Tennessee with Johnson, Harrison, and Baugh? How much is too much?
But Cambage is the key for TUL. People forget she was the main reason the club improved in 2013, not Diggins. The combo of Cambage, an improved Diggins, and Sims could prove fruitful. I'm hoping to see it happen.
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Michelle89
Joined: 17 Nov 2010
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| Posted: 08/22/14 11:18 am ::: |
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| PUmatty wrote: |
| Michelle89 wrote: |
Pumatty are you saying that Seattle has more talented.players then the Shock or the Sun? And that they arr not a team thats desperately needs a talented young player maybe even.more then all the other teams(outside of the fever)
The storm need a young talented center that is taller then 6'2 to provide us some length. And they need this more then a great shooting forward. So they need to either trade Stricklen and if we cant.get enough for her thrn.trade that first pick/KML |
I am saying that the top players consistently end up drafted into the West. I am saying that the Storm will now be drafting No. 1 for the third time. The only other team that has done that is another Western team - Phoenix.
I have been saying for years that the pooling of talent and draft picks in a small number of teams is bad. I will grant you that the space between Seattle's No. 1 picks is wide, but they could very well have all three of them on the same team next year. |
Oke i understand and probably would agree with you if there were a lot of teams that are not as talented as the Storm and are not draftng any good players to strengthen their team. The Dream, Sky, Con all have talented young players(not to mention strong not that old vets for the Dream and Sky) And the Liberty just made a move that got them a 2nd franchise player and MVP type of player in Tina Charles who is still in her prime. But the Storm made it to the playoffs for the last 8-9 seasons i believe. So they had no chance (besides trades) to really strengthen their team and get some top rookies like Phoenix, Sparks, Sky, Shock and the Sun got...
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Fishhappy
Joined: 15 Mar 2014
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| Posted: 08/22/14 11:24 am ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
| I see it now: The Seattle Storm trade their #1 overall pick & Shekinna Stricklen to the Connecticut Sun for Ashja Jones & Renee Montgomery. |
Hey Toad --- No chance Renee is not old enough
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 08/22/14 11:25 am ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
What they need a 6'3" or 6'4" forward who can defend (and is actually willing to play defense), rebound, and score inside, and can run the court. |
I don"t know if she's sticking around, but it sounds like you could be describing Glory Johnson. |
The "and is willing to play defense" was there for a reason.
| Shades wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| I think they would be best off drafting Williams, IF (and I think that's a big if) Williams is actually serious about playing pro basketball rather than going to med school, or perhaps they'd be better off with Harrison depending on how she looks this year. |
I might be on board with Williams. People have talked about med school with players before but when does it ever win out with a serious prospect? |
If she needs basketball to make some money to attend med school, she'd be better off spending one or two years playing oversees and just skip the WNBA. She is serious about her studies and med school, by all accounts, and indeed I think most Dukies think her preoccupation with school is a big reason why she has never lived up to her HS billings. How many "serious prospects" at her level were ever really serious about going to med school? Are there any?
| Shades wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| They have a young, high energy team. I fear that keeping Cambage will not fit and will not help this team move forward. |
Oh, but Paris fits nicely? Cambage just recently turned 23, and she has a load of experience at 23. |
Paris may not be "high energy" but at least she plays hard. Cambage may be the most, shall we say, disinterested or unmotivated player I've seen in the WNBA.
| Shades wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| They should get whatever they can for her and move on. Maybe Indiana would give them either Natasha Howard or Natalie Achonwa for Cambage. I'd make that trade in one millisecond, and then draft either Williams or Harrison. |
I'm sure Indy would be intrigued by this trade, but it's not going to happen. TUL has already indicated the door is open for Cambage and they're going to work on getting her back. |
It doesn't surprise me that they would do that, I just think it's a bad approach and doesn't maximize their potential. But, it may not be in their control. Does anyone think Cambage wants to play in Tulsa? I think the odds of her returning go way down if she doesn't get traded to another city where she wants to play. Which is another reason to get what they can and move on.
| Shades wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| ]Oh, and I'd hire a full time personal trainer to spend the next nine months with Paris wherever in the world she spends that time and see if I couldn't get her at least a little bit serious about improving her conditioning. She's good now; she could really be a star with a little more effort. |
People always advise this kinda of thing but nothing ever comes of it. The only oversized player I've seen make a significant change is Jessica Adair, and she slipped out of the league with nary a peep. |
Oh, I know it doesn't. It takes real commitment and effort. But I've also never seen a team actually make an investment like hiring a full time PT for the offseason, to try and make it happen. And I doubt if any WNBA team would be willing to spend the money, although I think it would be a very good investment in this case. It's apparent she's not going to do it on her own.
Last edited by ArtBest23 on 08/22/14 11:37 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Michelle89
Joined: 17 Nov 2010
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| Posted: 08/22/14 11:30 am ::: |
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| Sounds almost like Agler already knows that LJ is not going to be back. In that behind the scenes interview he says missing Lauren will leave us with a big whole so we need some lenghth to guard the rim and groom some young guards (something like that)
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 08/22/14 11:53 am ::: |
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| justintyme wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| PUmatty wrote: |
| I am saying that the top players consistently end up drafted into the West. I am saying that the Storm will now be drafting No. 1 for the third time. The only other team that has done that is another Western team - Phoenix. |
I assume you mean Minnesota, which had the #1 pick in 2006, 2007, and 2011. Phoenix has only had the #1 pick twice. |
Phoenix won the 2007 lotto. They drafted Harding and then traded her to Minny. |
That is what I meant. If you want to say Minnesota instead, that is fine too. Either way, Seattle is second.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 08/22/14 11:55 am ::: |
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Johnson doesn't play defense? Seems to do a good job on Ogwumike for somebody that doesn't want to do it.
Kelsey Griffin was pre-med at Nebraska and here is a quote from her in 2010.
| Quote: |
"I'm not 100 percent certain about it, but right now my fantasy is to be an orthopedic surgeon," she said. "I love to learn about the muscles and bones of the body. I think they are fascinating. Right now, I'm looking to shadow and volunteer [in hospitals] to better understand what that's going to take.
"Both of my parents have medical backgrounds. My father is a pharmacist and my mother is a nurse. I understand medical school would be an entirely different situation, but the competitive aspect of it would be very exciting to me. We'll see where that goes." |
Maybe if Williams ends up in CON, she can be advised by Griffin.
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Last edited by Shades on 08/22/14 11:40 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 08/22/14 11:57 am ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
Johnson doesn't play defense? Seems to do a good job on Ogwumike for somebody that doesn't want to do it.
Kelsey Griffin was pre-med at Nebraska and here is a quite from her in 2010.
| Quote: |
"I'm not 100 percent certain about it, but right now my fantasy is to be an orthopedic surgeon," she said. "I love to learn about the muscles and bones of the body. I think they are fascinating. Right now, I'm looking to shadow and volunteer [in hospitals] to better understand what that's going to take.
"Both of my parents have medical backgrounds. My father is a pharmacist and my mother is a nurse. I understand medical school would be an entirely different situation, but the competitive aspect of it would be very exciting to me. We'll see where that goes." |
Maybe if Williams ends up in CON, she can be advised by Griffin. |
My understanding is that with Williams it's a lot more than a fascination or a "fantasy." I think it's a commitment.
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Shades
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| Posted: 08/22/14 12:06 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
My understanding is that with Williams it's a lot more than a fascination or a "fantasy." I think it's a commitment. |
Just a hunch? Do you have some quotes? How much should this hunch drop her stock?
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 08/22/14 12:18 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
My understanding is that with Williams it's a lot more than a fascination or a "fantasy." I think it's a commitment. |
Just a hunch? Do you have some quotes? How much should this hunch drop her stock? |
It's more than a hunch. It's been written about for two or three years. It's not a secret. Her father is a gastroenterologist. Her mother may be a doctor as well. She's in pre-med. A year ago in an interview she said:
"EW on going to college and being a doctor: It's pretty busy but it's not impossible. Duke has a program called CAPE. It stands for Collegiate Athlete Pre-Medical Experience. We meet every two weeks and a doctor will come in and talk to us. In the fall, we get to do clinic hours. We're the only undergrads who get to take histories and stuff because we get to shadow different doctors. Also there is a summer internship where you do the same thing. I'll probably do that next summer.
EW on balancing med school with a WNBA career: I know someone who's been in law school and played professionally -- the Penn State head coach Coquese Washington. She was in law school and played. Med school doesn't work that way. The way I'm starting to see it now is playing for a little bit and then going to school because they're two separate jobs."
I'm sure any team considering drafting her is going to spend considerable effort investigating the level of her commitment to a professional basketball career, and if there is any uncertainty, it almost certainly will effect her draft position. I doubt anyone would use a top 3 pick for someone who is only committed to playing for a couple of years.
And med schools will allow you to delay your admission, but not for very long.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 08/22/14 1:37 pm ::: |
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| justintyme wrote: |
| ClayK wrote: |
| So why would anyone trade anything of value for her? |
Same reason value is traded all the time. She is a good perimeter defender, is fast, and has a huge upside. Many teams will feel that given a starting role she will rise to the challenge. I mean, the Lynx got great value for Wiggins who I felt was being severely overrated.
But we are talking about a 5th or 6th pick in what many are calling a weak draft. Seems about right for a player like Wright. |
I don't see a huge upside for a 27-year-old guard who's an average shooter and a bad ballhandler.
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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| Posted: 08/22/14 1:55 pm ::: |
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Wright would be a good 5th Beatle in Chicago, playing between Sloot and Prince, and EDD and Fowles she'd be a good fit, and with Breland, Young and Quigley getting a lot of minutes off the bench Chicago would be deep. I think Minnesota would be willing to give her up for Banham, and Chicago probably won't get anyone in the draft at #5 who fits their win now mode.
If L. Jackson isn't coming back and Conn wants the #1 for KML how about #1 for A. Thomas? or #1 for #3 and #4? Or #1 for Griffin and #4?
If KML isn't #1 who else would be competing for that spot? Gray? Harrison? Williams? Ibiem?
Who are the players lower in the draft who might be better by the end of their senior season, and might be able to make it in the W? I like Hyrenko.
Could Orrange, Logic or Massengale work their way into the 1st round?
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justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
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| Posted: 08/22/14 2:02 pm ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
| justintyme wrote: |
| ClayK wrote: |
| So why would anyone trade anything of value for her? |
Same reason value is traded all the time. She is a good perimeter defender, is fast, and has a huge upside. Many teams will feel that given a starting role she will rise to the challenge. I mean, the Lynx got great value for Wiggins who I felt was being severely overrated.
But we are talking about a 5th or 6th pick in what many are calling a weak draft. Seems about right for a player like Wright. |
I don't see a huge upside for a 27-year-old guard who's an average shooter and a bad ballhandler. |
Yet you saw one for Wiggins? We are not talking about super high value here (the Storm comment was a joke) but trading her for a 5th or 6th doesn't seem to be a stretch.
The upside for Wright is an excellent defender with speed and a good first step. Will she be an all-star? Probably not, but she could develop into a solid starter.
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TotalCardinalMove
Joined: 13 Oct 2013
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| Posted: 08/22/14 3:05 pm ::: |
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| J-Spoon wrote: |
Just so there is no confusion I have no idea what I'm talking about just having fun
1. Sea KML (Traded to Tulsa for Cambage)
2. Tulsa Harrison
3. Conn E. Williams
4. Conn R. Gray
5. Chicago Banham (traded to Minnesota for M. Wright)
6. Ind Ibiem
7. LA Boyd
8. Was Welsh
9. SA Logic
10. Atlanta Muhammed
11. Minn Hyrenko (Traded to NY for A. Montgomery)
12. PX Davis |
I love your #9 pick actually. I like her game. I would like to see us trading a couple of our current guards maybe.
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Michelle89
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PUmatty
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scrappy
Joined: 18 May 2006
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| Posted: 08/22/14 4:15 pm ::: |
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if the storm can get cambage for the #1 pick? i'm all for it.
give them quinn, o'hae, and powell for free. hell, pay hem to take them.
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ClayK
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| Posted: 08/22/14 4:37 pm ::: |
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I don't recall saying there's a huge upside for Candice Wiggins, who has steadily regressed in the past few years. If I did, I was wrong -- and I said it before she was 27.
The 27 part is crucial for Wright, I think. Very few players get better after age 27, and almost all of them get worse after age 28.
And finally, how can a solid starter at guard have that kind of A/TO? A solid starter at guard should be at 2.5, unless she shoots 46%. Wright isn't close to either number.
I agree that Wright is a nice backup, along the lines of Armintie Herrington, but if she's starting, you're going to need an elite ballhandler with her, and a couple good shooters.
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justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
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| Posted: 08/22/14 5:02 pm ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
I don't recall saying there's a huge upside for Candice Wiggins, who has steadily regressed in the past few years. If I did, I was wrong -- and I said it before she was 27.
The 27 part is crucial for Wright, I think. Very few players get better after age 27, and almost all of them get worse after age 28.
And finally, how can a solid starter at guard have that kind of A/TO? A solid starter at guard should be at 2.5, unless she shoots 46%. Wright isn't close to either number.
I agree that Wright is a nice backup, along the lines of Armintie Herrington, but if she's starting, you're going to need an elite ballhandler with her, and a couple good shooters. |
The Wiggins reference was to point out what someone of similar value to Wright was able to get on the trade market.
The argument isn't that Wright has super high value, it's that she has value worth a 5th or 6th draft pick or its equivalent. She is a solid backup at the moment with the potential to be a solid starter in the right situation.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 08/22/14 5:51 pm ::: |
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| justintyme wrote: |
The argument isn't that Wright has super high value, it's that she has value worth a 5th or 6th draft pick or its equivalent. |
I suppose the question at that point is, if you were a GM picking 6, would you rather have her, knowing that basically what you see is what you get, or would you rather take a chance on a college player? There aren't a lot of household names who were picked sixth, but there are some real gems like Dannielle Robinson.
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Michelle89
Joined: 17 Nov 2010
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| Posted: 08/22/14 6:31 pm ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
I don't recall saying there's a huge upside for Candice Wiggins, who has steadily regressed in the past few years. If I did, I was wrong -- and I said it before she was 27.
The 27 part is crucial for Wright, I think. Very few players get better after age 27, and almost all of them get worse after age 28.
And finally, how can a solid starter at guard have that kind of A/TO? A solid starter at guard should be at 2.5, unless she shoots 46%. Wright isn't close to either number.
I agree that Wright is a nice backup, along the lines of Armintie Herrington, but if she's starting, you're going to need an elite ballhandler with her, and a couple good shooters. |
Since when does a SG/SF need to have a great A/TO of 2,5? You are aware that for example Maya has an A/TO of 1,43 and Augustus 1,49. Yes they shoot a great percentage but that is still a big gap to 2,5
Actually the only players that come close (or have better) to an A/TO of 2,5 are Whalen, Hammon and Toliver.
When you have her starting you need a solid pointguard next to her because she isnt a PG or any kind of a playmaker. But who doesnt? Im not saying she will be your best player in your starting five but IMO she can start and i have no problem having her start for the Storm at the 2 position IF Tanisha retires.
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"Sue Bird and Lauren Jackson were and are the dynamic duo. They're the one-two punch. They're all the clich�s possible to describe people that perfectly complement each other, who make each other better and also bring out the best in the team." �Karen Bryant
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blaase22
Joined: 28 Mar 2011
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| Posted: 08/22/14 7:04 pm ::: |
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| Michelle89 wrote: |
| ClayK wrote: |
I don't recall saying there's a huge upside for Candice Wiggins, who has steadily regressed in the past few years. If I did, I was wrong -- and I said it before she was 27.
The 27 part is crucial for Wright, I think. Very few players get better after age 27, and almost all of them get worse after age 28.
And finally, how can a solid starter at guard have that kind of A/TO? A solid starter at guard should be at 2.5, unless she shoots 46%. Wright isn't close to either number.
I agree that Wright is a nice backup, along the lines of Armintie Herrington, but if she's starting, you're going to need an elite ballhandler with her, and a couple good shooters. |
Since when does a SG/SF need to have a great A/TO of 2,5? You are aware that for example Maya has an A/TO of 1,43 and Augustus 1,49. Yes they shoot a great percentage but that is still a big gap to 2,5
Actually the only players that come close (or have better) to an A/TO of 2,5 are Whalen, Hammon and Toliver.
When you have her starting you need a solid pointguard next to her because she isnt a PG or any kind of a playmaker. But who doesnt? Im not saying she will be your best player in your starting five but IMO she can start and i have no problem having her start for the Storm at the 2 position IF Tanisha retires. |
I know right there's so many teams that would love to have Wright. Indiana for one, she would really thrive there maybe even become an all star.
6th pick for Wright?? Sounds like a good deal for both teams. Minny can get Banham.
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