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Smoovie
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 Posted: 10/28/05 5:40 am ::: I wonder what's going on in Tots camp, right now |
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| I know one really doesn't have anything to do with the other. But, how the league deals with Swoopes coming out, will most likely have to have an impact on Tots case.
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suemar
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| Posted: 10/28/05 7:58 am ::: |
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| I know the case was dropped but what about those pictures? Also there is a HUGE difference in the two things. Swoopes has CLASS. Pimp girl didnt and never wil. A team would have to want someone like that around and that just isnt going to happen.
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Smoovie
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| Posted: 10/28/05 10:17 am ::: |
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| When was her civil case against the Sparks dropped? She's also claiming she's been blackballed because of it
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Impossible is just a big word thrown around by the small minded, who find it easier to live in the world they've been given, than to explore the power they have to change it. Impossible is not a fact. It's a opinion. Impossible is not a declaration. It's a DARE! DARE to explore the potential and let no one hold you back. Because, impossible only exist in their small mind.
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bluewolfvii
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| Posted: 10/28/05 10:42 am ::: |
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From what I remember, Byear's wrongful termination suit against the Los Angeles Lakers is on the court docket for next month. The Los Angeles Lakers deny the charges. To my knowledge there has been no settlement, nor has Byears' charges against the LAL been dropped.
It is doubtful that any evidence, photo or otherwise, lends weight to since dismissed allegations that Byears participated in an assault. The DA dropped the charges against Byears after the maximum time period citing lack of evidence as the reason for dropping the charges.
Don't know much about Byears but what I read. She wears her rough edges on the outside, but was gracious and accommodating with kids and auotgraph hounds in Cleveland. Also, I have read statements of support from Michael Cooper and some of her former teammates.
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suemar
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| Posted: 10/28/05 10:48 am ::: |
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| I read the statement also but then I read her pimp thing. I also think her suit is pending. I was talking about the alligations against her that did not come to actual charges due to lack of evidence. The whole thing really stunk from both her end and LA end. Still there shouldnt be a comparison made.
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BCBG25
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| Posted: 10/28/05 11:44 am ::: |
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Are we going there AGAIN???
If there is no victim, there is no case. It doesn't mean she's innocent or guilty, it means they didn't have enough evidence because the alledged victim (this should make some here happy) didn't make herself available.
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bluewolfvii
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| Posted: 10/28/05 11:52 am ::: |
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| BCBG25 wrote: |
Are we going there AGAIN???
If there is no victim, there is no case. It doesn't mean she's innocent or guilty, it means they didn't have enough evidence because the alledged victim (this should make some here happy) didn't make herself available. |
You'd think that someone who was actually guilty of such a thing would be so happy she dodged the bullet that the last thing she would want to do was bring it to everyone's attention again, including the DA and the alleged victim, by going to the press.
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Admiral_Needa
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 10/28/05 11:53 am ::: I wonder what's going on in Tots camp, right now |
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| Smoovie wrote: |
| I know one really doesn't have anything to do with the other. But, how the league deals with Swoopes coming out, will most likely have to have an impact on Tots case. |
It probably goes back to same related idea that issues with star players will be handled better than 2nd tier players. Which, is what Byears was claiming all along, comparing her situation against Kobe's... |
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pilight
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Carol Anne
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tritogeneia
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womens_hoops
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| Posted: 10/30/05 10:22 am ::: |
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[quote="tritogeneia] Everything else was old news.[/quote]
other than the quotes from the accuser's agent. and the suggestion that there might be a settlement announced within 7 days.
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sparkfan33
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| Posted: 10/30/05 10:29 am ::: |
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I do not care about any of the above. All I want is Byears back in any WNBA uniform; hopefully a SPARK uniform.
How can we make this happen?
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Slovydal
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 10/30/05 10:51 am ::: |
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| The Sparks would have to have new ownership for that to happen.
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bigsportzbabe
Joined: 21 Apr 2005
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| Posted: 10/30/05 10:54 am ::: |
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| Slovydal wrote: |
| The Sparks would have to have new ownership for that to happen. |
Why couldn`t it be made part of the settlement?
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Slovydal
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| Posted: 10/30/05 10:55 am ::: |
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| The San Jose Sparks?
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womens_hoops
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| Posted: 10/30/05 11:06 am ::: |
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| bigsportzbabe wrote: |
| Why couldn`t it be made part of the settlement? |
it could. but it's pretty unlikely.
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rooky
Joined: 09 Jun 2005
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| Posted: 10/30/05 11:44 am ::: |
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| Slovydal wrote: |
| The San Jose Sparks? |
Er, Sharks? Tot as a Shark might be more fitting, considering her behavior toward women can be seen as predatory!
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Sass
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| Posted: 10/30/05 11:51 am ::: |
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| sparkfan33 wrote: |
I do not care about any of the above. All I want is Byears back in any WNBA uniform; hopefully a SPARK uniform.
How can we make this happen? |
Really? You WANT Tot back? Just out of curiosity, why?
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ILuvCatch
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| Posted: 10/30/05 2:19 pm ::: |
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| tritogeneia wrote: |
| Carol Anne wrote: |
Toto? 
If the New York Daily News can't get Latasha Byears' inaptonymous nickname right, how much credence can we put in the rest of the story? |
I don't think it matters, anyway. The only thing new, as far as I can tell, is her reaction to the Swoopes announcement. Everything else was old news. |
I don't remember the bold part.
| Quote: |
The alleged victim, a promising young South American player, returned home almost immediately after the incident was reported by a third party.
"She was never willing to come back to testify," Mason says. "From what I understand, she didn't really know what happened, although she felt like something happened based on what some other people at the party have said had taken place. It wasn't her bringing the allegations, it was another person at the party." |
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tritogeneia
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| Posted: 10/30/05 4:32 pm ::: |
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| ILuvCatch wrote: |
| tritogeneia wrote: |
| Carol Anne wrote: |
Toto?
If the New York Daily News can't get Latasha Byears' inaptonymous nickname right, how much credence can we put in the rest of the story? |
I don't think it matters, anyway. The only thing new, as far as I can tell, is her reaction to the Swoopes announcement. Everything else was old news. |
I don't remember the bold part.
| Quote: |
The alleged victim, a promising young South American player, returned home almost immediately after the incident was reported by a third party.
"She was never willing to come back to testify," Mason says. "From what I understand, she didn't really know what happened, although she felt like something happened based on what some other people at the party have said had taken place. It wasn't her bringing the allegations, it was another person at the party." |
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Hmm... Perhaps I made too broad a statement. It all sounds familiar to me, but I've had a lot of margaritas this weekend, so my memory could be somewhat impaired. 
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womens_hoops
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| Posted: 10/30/05 5:08 pm ::: |
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yeah, the bold stuff is definitely new. As was the DA's statement about what charges were considered.
The DA referred to California's twin rape law provisions for "rape of an unconscious person" and "rape of an intoxicated person." Those laws work the same as statutory rape laws -- consent is irrelevant.
In other words -- if someone drunk says they wanna do it, it's still rape. Even if someone says in advance "I'm gonna get really drunk and then I wanna do it," it's still rape.
If the woman honestly doesn't remember what happened, then it would mean that anyone who had sex with her during that time would be guilty. But without her testimony, it would be (almost) impossible to prove the crime.
bizarre situation. i wonder what the settlement press release will say...
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tritogeneia
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womens_hoops
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pilight
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| Posted: 10/30/05 6:42 pm ::: |
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| womens_hoops wrote: |
| If the woman honestly doesn't remember what happened, then it would mean that anyone who had sex with her during that time would be guilty. But without her testimony, it would be (almost) impossible to prove the crime. |
Would her testifying that she doesn't remember be that helpful?_________________ If you want a revolution, the only solution's evolve
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womens_hoops
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| Posted: 10/30/05 8:07 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| Would her testifying that she doesn't remember be that helpful? |
yeah, it would be very helpful.
if you can prove (1) that she doesn't remember some period of time, and (2) that someone had sex with her during that time, you've won.
even if she doesn't remember the sex, it's pretty easy to show the second part -- either by physical evidence, or her own testimony about the effects, or someone else's testimony that knew the sex happened, or any defendant's admission (like to police) that there was sex.
i've been working on a case prosecuted under this law. and the woman basically testified that they were drinking a lot and flirting/fooling around, and she didn't really remember what happened after that, but she had some very spotty memories of having sex, and she could tell the next morning that she had had sex. defendant was found guilty.
that's the quirky thing about these laws -- that saying "i don't remember what happened" is itself a proof of one element of the crime.
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Queenie
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| Posted: 10/31/05 7:03 am ::: |
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Uh, yeah, they put a few more details in that article than those of us on the East Coast have had a chance to read- I hadn't known about the drugging. But this detail is one they should NEVER have mentioned.
| Quote: |
| The alleged victim, a promising young South American player, |
How many South American players have played for the Sparks?
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womens_hoops
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| Posted: 10/31/05 9:33 am ::: |
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| Queenie wrote: |
| But this detail is one they should NEVER have mentioned. |
yeah, that was pretty outta line. That's some good tabloid journalism for ya...
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bigsportzbabe
Joined: 21 Apr 2005
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| Posted: 10/31/05 10:36 am ::: |
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| womens_hoops wrote: |
| Queenie wrote: |
| But this detail is one they should NEVER have mentioned. |
yeah, that was pretty outta line. That's some good tabloid journalism for ya... |
Why?
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womens_hoops
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| Posted: 10/31/05 10:58 am ::: |
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| bigsportzbabe wrote: |
| Why? |
i just don't really like it when the press identifies accusers in rape cases.
the model code of ethics for journalism says that you're not supposed to do that. the paper here skirted that rule by identifying her without using her name.
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Queenie
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| Posted: 10/31/05 11:26 am ::: |
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| bigsportzbabe wrote: |
| womens_hoops wrote: |
| Queenie wrote: |
| But this detail is one they should NEVER have mentioned. |
yeah, that was pretty outta line. That's some good tabloid journalism for ya... |
Why? |
It's something that could very easily be used to identify the lady in question, or at least seriously narrow down who it could be. A "promising young player" would have been enough to underscore how bad the situation was; by giving the South American detail, it pins her down, essentially, to one nationality. Even had I not been appraised of her identity prior to this article, I would have been able to do a minimum amount of research to figure out who she was. (And yes, I know I'm a WNBA fan, and someone who knows more about the league than your average woman-on-the-street, but a layman could simply search Sparks rosters for players from South American countries and come up with verry few names.)
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BCBG25
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| Posted: 10/31/05 11:32 am ::: |
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What color was Napoleon's white horse?
Giving the fact that only one country in South America has had players play in the WNBA and that the Sharks have had only one player from said country play for them, the idiot would be more honest saying the name of the accuser already. A very promising young player who might never play in the W again because of this unfortunate incident.
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Jimi3
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| Posted: 10/31/05 11:37 am ::: |
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| Queenie wrote: |
| bigsportzbabe wrote: |
| womens_hoops wrote: |
| Queenie wrote: |
| But this detail is one they should NEVER have mentioned. |
yeah, that was pretty outta line. That's some good tabloid journalism for ya... |
Why? |
It's something that could very easily be used to identify the lady in question, or at least seriously narrow down who it could be. A "promising young player" would have been enough to underscore how bad the situation was; by giving the South American detail, it pins her down, essentially, to one nationality. Even had I not been appraised of her identity prior to this article, I would have been able to do a minimum amount of research to figure out who she was. (And yes, I know I'm a WNBA fan, and someone who knows more about the league than your average woman-on-the-street, but a layman could simply search Sparks rosters for players from South American countries and come up with verry few names.) |
I'm sure the reveal was unintentional and is a reflection of the lack of thought or understanding on the part of the paper. Recently a friend of mine was "named" unintentionaly by a paper in the same way. The paper in a big city , under direction to not reveal the idenity of jurors in a criminal trial, gave the City and occupation of all the jurors and not the names. In his case there is only one person in his small city with his specific occupation title. It is a very public occupation and they may as well have posted his name. My guess is they had no clue how easy it was to identify him from their information.
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ClayK
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| Posted: 10/31/05 11:54 am ::: |
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Lost in all this is why Byears isn't in the league ...
It's not that she's gay.
It's not that she's an ineffective player, though she's hardly a starter.
It's that she's more trouble than she's worth, in terms of attitude and actions.
There are some players you probably don't want on your team, no matter how good they are -- and if they're not exceptional, you don't want them at all. I think the general attitude among WNBA GMs is that Byears' positives are heavily outweighed by her negatives (and being gay isn't one of them).
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bigsportzbabe
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| Posted: 10/31/05 11:59 am ::: |
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| womens_hoops wrote: |
| bigsportzbabe wrote: |
| Why? |
i just don't really like it when the press identifies accusers in rape cases.
the model code of ethics for journalism says that you're not supposed to do that. the paper here skirted that rule by identifying her without using her name. |
firstly, read the article, she was never the accuser....in fact she never even corroborated the charge
There are many of us who believe that these charges were false....
It amazes me how everybody believed the alleged accuser without even knowing the facts....why
because we have profiled Tot as a "bad person", an "unsavory character"...so we take partial information and mold it to fit the guilty profile
we rationalized the other party`s refusal to testifiy, as fear of Tot.....
looking at the facts, I think, there are other possible scenerios....
suppose she was a closeted lesbian, who, while having consentual relations with Byears, got busted by her other teammates....they thinking she is straight, assumed it was rape and accused Byears.... the woman, to protect her closeted status, left town, never discussing the matter.
perhaps it is not fear of Byears, but fear of exposure as a gay woman that keeps her from speaking out
If that`s the case then there are two victims here, at least in my eyes.
My point is that none of us know all the facts....but it saddens me that we rush to judgement..
It would be very sad if Byears life was ruined, not because of what she did, but because of what we assume her capable of doing.
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bigsportzbabe
Joined: 21 Apr 2005
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| Posted: 10/31/05 12:02 pm ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
Lost in all this is why Byears isn't in the league ...
It's not that she's gay.
It's not that she's an ineffective player, though she's hardly a starter.
It's that she's more trouble than she's worth, in terms of attitude and actions.
There are some players you probably don't want on your team, no matter how good they are -- and if they're not exceptional, you don't want them at all. I think the general attitude among WNBA GMs is that Byears' positives are heavily outweighed by her negatives (and being gay isn't one of them). |
Clay if that is the case, why all the positive quotes from her teammates and coaches?
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Senility Prayer: God grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference. Amen.
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womens_hoops
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| Posted: 10/31/05 12:13 pm ::: |
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| bigsportzbabe wrote: |
| It amazes me how everybody believed the alleged accuser without even knowing the facts....why |
i never said i believed the accuser. i have avoided calling her a "victim," because i don't really know if that fits. i'm not really sure the lable "accuser" fits either, but i'm not sure what else to use.
something happened, i don't know what. this woman wants to move on with her life. i think the papers shouldn't identify her, either directly or indirectly. that's all.
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BCBG25
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 10/31/05 12:16 pm ::: |
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| bigsportzbabe wrote: |
| womens_hoops wrote: |
| bigsportzbabe wrote: |
| Why? |
i just don't really like it when the press identifies accusers in rape cases.
the model code of ethics for journalism says that you're not supposed to do that. the paper here skirted that rule by identifying her without using her name. |
firstly, read the article, she was never the accuser....in fact she never even corroborated the charge
There are many of us who believe that these charges were false....
It amazes me how everybody believed the alleged accuser without even knowing the facts....why
because we have profiled Tot as a "bad person", an "unsavory character"...so we take partial information and mold it to fit the guilty profile
we rationalized the other party`s refusal to testifiy, as fear of Tot.....
looking at the facts, I think, there are other possible scenerios....
suppose she was a closeted lesbian, who, while having consentual relations with Byears, got busted by her other teammates....they thinking she is straight, assumed it was rape and accused Byears.... the woman, to protect her closeted status, left town, never discussing the matter.
perhaps it is not fear of Byears, but fear of exposure as a gay woman that keeps her from speaking out
If that`s the case then there are two victims here, at least in my eyes.
My point is that none of us know all the facts....but it saddens me that we rush to judgement..
It would be very sad if Byears life was ruined, not because of what she did, but because of what we assume her capable of doing. |
BSB, you assume too much for someone who doesn't know the facts. You are making up facts. While I don't know Tot's version of the truth, I know the other side.
Your blind defense of Byears is what puzzles me if you have no earthly idea of what happened and only know what you've read. Hearsay and second-hand versions are the problem in this case.
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womens_hoops
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| Posted: 10/31/05 12:18 pm ::: |
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| bigsportzbabe wrote: |
| firstly, read the article, she was never the accuser....in fact she never even corroborated the charge |
i did read the article. it essentially said that she was too drunk (or otherwise intoxicated) to know what happened.
and that came from Byears's agent.
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sambista
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| Posted: 10/31/05 12:35 pm ::: |
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| i'm with bcbg on this (the truth is out there, some people know more than most, and speculation to the contrary just doesn't wash), as well as others who believe this story was way out of bounds identifying the party under a too-flimsy veil of protection. jimi3, not to diminish your own personal story, but in this story's case these guys knew exactly what they were doing (my fervent opinion) and skirted journalistic ethics by pretending to abide by them. i'd love to be proved wrong, but i doubt it would happen because it would've been easy to simply say "a foreign player." even that would've been too much, in my book. all they had to say was "a player." the fact that the description was narrowed as it was speaks volumes.
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bigsportzbabe
Joined: 21 Apr 2005
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| Posted: 10/31/05 12:39 pm ::: |
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| Quote: |
BSB, you assume too much for someone who doesn't know the facts. You are making up facts. While I don't know Tot's version of the truth, I know the other side.
Your blind defense of Byears is what puzzles me if you have no earthly idea of what happened and only know what you've read. Hearsay and second-hand versions are the problem in this case |
my assumptions are no better or worse than those who ASSUME Tot is guilty...and that`s my point
Tot has been found guilty in the court of public opinion based on profiling and assumptions
My defense of Tot is not blind,it is based on my firm belief in the Constution of the United States. In this country we have the "presumption of innocence". When Tot was stripped of her livelihood, based on an uncorroborated accusation......her constitutional rights , as a citizen of the U.S., were trampled. ANY TIME CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS ARE TRAMPLED THEY ARE DIMINISHED JUST A LITTLE BIT FOR ALL OF US!!!!!
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Senility Prayer: God grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference. Amen.
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Slovydal
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| Posted: 10/31/05 12:46 pm ::: |
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In LA, shortly after Byears was waived, Sparks "fans" were talking about how the "knew" it was drugs that got her fired.
Then when the story came out, those same people claimed to have seen pictures of the alleged incident.
Remember, this is L.A. we're talking about. - (Tabloid Town)
BSB is ABSOLUTELY right.
TOT'S rights have clearly been violated.
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CamrnCrz1974
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| Posted: 10/31/05 12:46 pm ::: |
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I agree with BSB on this one. None of (presumably) have seen the photos. None of us (presumably) have spoken to the alleged victim or to the men involved. None of us had access to the District Attorney's file. None of us (presumably) have spoken with Byears.
Tot gets a bad rap, and a lot of it is deserved based upon HER own comments and actions. But that alone is not enough to prove guilt...and it certainly is not enough to rebut the presumption of innocence.
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Jimi3
Joined: 24 Nov 2004
Posts: 597
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| Posted: 10/31/05 12:53 pm ::: |
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| sebibb wrote: |
| i'm with bcbg on this (the truth is out there, some people know more than most, and speculation to the contrary just doesn't wash), as well as others who believe this story was way out of bounds identifying the party under a too-flimsy veil of protection. jimi3, not to diminish your own personal story, but in this story's case these guys knew exactly what they were doing (my fervent opinion) and skirted journalistic ethics by pretending to abide by them. i'd love to be proved wrong, but i doubt it would happen because it would've been easy to simply say "a foreign player." even that would've been too much, in my book. all they had to say was "a player." the fact that the description was narrowed as it was speaks volumes. |
You could be right. Btw, my sig line has been in place for a week or two and had nothing to do with this thread. In any case WHY the person was revealed is way less improtant than they were.
_________________
"When you are dissatisfied and would like to go back to youth, think of Algebra." Will Rogers
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 27767
Location: Where the action is
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| Posted: 10/31/05 1:01 pm ::: |
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| BCBG25 wrote: |
| Giving the fact that only one country in South America has had players play in the WNBA... |
Levys Torres would disagree._________________ If you want a revolution, the only solution's evolve
My WNBA Fan Site |
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womens_hoops
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 2831
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| Posted: 10/31/05 1:01 pm ::: |
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| bigsportzbabe wrote: |
| My defense of Tot is not blind,it is based on my firm belief in the Constution of the United States. In this country we have the "presumption of innocence". |
i forget where in the Constitution it says that no one can make any judgment about any incident until it has been proven in court.
in fact, i forget where in the Constitution it says "presumption of innocence." i musta missed that day of Con Law.
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bluewolfvii
Joined: 08 Mar 2005
Posts: 5006
Location: The Happening
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| Posted: 10/31/05 1:05 pm ::: |
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"She's never talked (about the incident) to anyone in Europe, never talked to any teammates or other players," the agent says. "These are very personal things from the past that nobody wants to remember.
-The alleged victim's agent
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 7842
Location: Lafayette, Ind.
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| Posted: 10/31/05 1:06 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| BCBG25 wrote: |
| Giving the fact that only one country in South America has had players play in the WNBA... |
Levys Torres would disagree. |
Erika Valek hasn't been in a game, but she has been to camps and she is a Columbian citizen.
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bluewolfvii
Joined: 08 Mar 2005
Posts: 5006
Location: The Happening
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bluewolfvii
Joined: 08 Mar 2005
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Location: The Happening
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