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bekcat1
Joined: 24 Feb 2011
Posts: 874
Location: The ATL
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 Posted: 06/12/14 9:26 pm ::: |
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| Youth Coach wrote: |
I'm conflicted about this.
A player of the talent level DeShields possesses coming to Tennessee is great.
But I saw her piss poor attitude on display when I attended the UNC-BC game AT BC this past season and it disgusted me.
I hope during the year she sits out, she gets a better attitude. |
She wasn't happy where she was. That's the attitude you saw displayed (and I saw it as well). It doesn't make it right, but it does explain why.
I think that now she is where she wanted to be all along, the attitude changes for the better. If not, I know the coaching staff will help her adjust it.
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Jlcarter
Joined: 03 Jul 2013
Posts: 461
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| Posted: 06/12/14 9:31 pm ::: |
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| She was injured last year and won freshman of the year. It's kind of scary to think how she will do when fully healthy.
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Rock Hard
Joined: 02 Aug 2010
Posts: 5385
Location: Chocolate Paradise
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| Posted: 06/12/14 11:23 pm ::: |
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All of you DD haters please allow this young woman to grow and mature. Please do not crucify her because she does not display the PROPER ATTITUDE that you believe that she should show. She is a teenager. If her attitude does not grow and mature over the next four years then you have the right to make all the negative comments about her that needs to be said.
I have a niece her age and she has an ugly attitude. But I also understand that she is a teenager and will mature as life teaches her lessons that she is not the center of the Universe.
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You can win, as long as you keep your head to the SKY! Be OPTIMISTIC!
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Youth Coach
Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 4760
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| Posted: 06/13/14 5:54 am ::: |
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Oh please, disgusted by a piss poor attitude is not hating someone.
What would be nice is seeing people not dismissing her attitude issues because she's a teenager. |
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Jlcarter
Joined: 03 Jul 2013
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 11157
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| Posted: 06/13/14 10:13 am ::: |
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One of the issues any fan of basketball has is how to deal with comments about young players. On both the men's and women's side, players are in the spotlight as early as age 15, and if they are at the elite level, it stays there until they retire.
Of course, we can blame a lot of things on youth, but what exactly do we mean by "youth"? I can't believe some of the stupid things I did in my late 20s, and I still wonder how I survived adolescence -- and the issues, though not major, all sprang from my attitude, not my abilities.
And success in basketball, or anything, is determined as much by attitude as by physical skill, so how can we not comment about a young player's work ethic or treatment of teammates or willingness to do what the coach asks of her?
To say any comments about "attitude" are off limits basically means all we could talk about would be physical attributes -- and any criticism there can be just as painful.
I've wrestled with this over the years, and come to this (self-serving) conclusion: The young athlete gets special treatment, most of the time, from middle school on, if not before. A college scholarship worth $150,000 or more awaits, not to mention local adulation (headlines, adults following on Twitter, etc.), and that comes with a price. Young athletes learn early that they have to take the bitter with the sweet (they don't always make that game-winning shot), and after the age of 18, they are legally adults.
Are these constant comments fair or fun? No. But how about when fans cheer you and people give you a free education? You really can't have one without the other.
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Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
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| Posted: 06/13/14 10:43 am ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
One of the issues any fan of basketball has is how to deal with comments about young players. On both the men's and women's side, players are in the spotlight as early as age 15, and if they are at the elite level, it stays there until they retire.
Of course, we can blame a lot of things on youth, but what exactly do we mean by "youth"? I can't believe some of the stupid things I did in my late 20s, and I still wonder how I survived adolescence -- and the issues, though not major, all sprang from my attitude, not my abilities.
And success in basketball, or anything, is determined as much by attitude as by physical skill, so how can we not comment about a young player's work ethic or treatment of teammates or willingness to do what the coach asks of her?
To say any comments about "attitude" are off limits basically means all we could talk about would be physical attributes -- and any criticism there can be just as painful.
I've wrestled with this over the years, and come to this (self-serving) conclusion: The young athlete gets special treatment, most of the time, from middle school on, if not before. A college scholarship worth $150,000 or more awaits, not to mention local adulation (headlines, adults following on Twitter, etc.), and that comes with a price. Young athletes learn early that they have to take the bitter with the sweet (they don't always make that game-winning shot), and after the age of 18, they are legally adults.
Are these constant comments fair or fun? No. But how about when fans cheer you and people give you a free education? You really can't have one without the other. |
Interesting that I never read anyone saying criticism is wrong about 18 year old boys. I find the attitude about girls to be incredibly patronizing. It's unfortunate that stereotypes that they are fragile little girls rather than just athletes are often perpetuated by the very people who are fans of the women's game.
Women can join the Marine corps and get shot at in Afganistan when they're 18. I think they can handle internet criticism about their crappy attitude.
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 2819
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: 06/13/14 10:47 am ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
Interesting that I never read anyone saying criticism is wrong about 18 year old boys. I find the attitude about girls to be incredibly patronizing. It's unfortunate that stereotypes that they are fragile little girls rather than just athletes are often perpetuated by the very people who are fans of the women's game.
Women can join the Marine corps and get shot at in Afganistan when they're 18. I think they can handle internet criticism about their crappy attitude. |
On this we agree.
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 8233
Location: Heisenberg
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| Posted: 06/13/14 12:09 pm ::: |
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I don't think there's anything wrong with criticizing the attitude, play or skills of any college athlete.
However, I think this business of Diamond DeShield's "bad attitude" is way overblown. I watched most of the televised UNC games, and didn't see any behaviors by her that offended me or that I haven't seen in scores of other players. Nor do I think there is anything wrong with her changing her mind about schools and transferring to wherever she wants.
My sense is a lot of people are just repeating things other people say. |
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7852
Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 06/13/14 1:36 pm ::: |
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| bekcat1 wrote: |
| bullsky wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Shades wrote: |
| bullsky wrote: |
| I think the big question is, will Holly be there to coach her? |
Who else would it be? I'm sure DeShields doesn't want to go to an unstable coaching situation. |
I don't understand that. DeShields doesn't know any more than this board knows about Holly's future. I'm sure Holly told her she'll be around, but so what? The AD would probably say that today. He'd probably say that 24 hours before firing her too.
I'm not predicting Holly is going to get fired (I doubt she will) but Diamond wanting a stable situation has nothing to do with it and makes it neither more nor less likely. |
Tennessee can do much better than Holly Warlick. That's all I'm saying. Remember, Diamond has to sit out a year. Lots of time before she'll be in orange. |
What an completely absurd statement to make from someone who, it seems, knows absolutely nothing about Tennessee.
Firstly, Holly Warlick is the exact right coach for Tennessee. I'm not exactly sure just who you think would be the better choice for head coach there, but I'm sure that right now, there isn't one. Not too many coaches would have duplicated her accomplishments by the end of their second year, especially after succeeding a legend who she cared about deeply.
At Tennessee, it's about more than wins and losses (although the Lady Vols do their fair share of winning). It's also about educating and graduating student athletes, developing their character,and going about their business in the most ethical way possible. No program goes about it cleaner than Tennessee, and no one knows that better than Holly.
I don't know where anyone gets the idea that Holly's situation is anything less than permanent. She's not going anywhere. The Lady Vols are in very good, very qualified hands. |
I agree. What you have here is just bullsky never missing a chance to trash Holly, that's all. Best to ignore it.
_________________
Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 11157
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| Posted: 06/13/14 4:33 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| ClayK wrote: |
One of the issues any fan of basketball has is how to deal with comments about young players. On both the men's and women's side, players are in the spotlight as early as age 15, and if they are at the elite level, it stays there until they retire.
Of course, we can blame a lot of things on youth, but what exactly do we mean by "youth"? I can't believe some of the stupid things I did in my late 20s, and I still wonder how I survived adolescence -- and the issues, though not major, all sprang from my attitude, not my abilities.
And success in basketball, or anything, is determined as much by attitude as by physical skill, so how can we not comment about a young player's work ethic or treatment of teammates or willingness to do what the coach asks of her?
To say any comments about "attitude" are off limits basically means all we could talk about would be physical attributes -- and any criticism there can be just as painful.
I've wrestled with this over the years, and come to this (self-serving) conclusion: The young athlete gets special treatment, most of the time, from middle school on, if not before. A college scholarship worth $150,000 or more awaits, not to mention local adulation (headlines, adults following on Twitter, etc.), and that comes with a price. Young athletes learn early that they have to take the bitter with the sweet (they don't always make that game-winning shot), and after the age of 18, they are legally adults.
Are these constant comments fair or fun? No. But how about when fans cheer you and people give you a free education? You really can't have one without the other. |
Interesting that I never read anyone saying criticism is wrong about 18 year old boys. I find the attitude about girls to be incredibly patronizing. It's unfortunate that stereotypes that they are fragile little girls rather than just athletes are often perpetuated by the very people who are fans of the women's game.
Women can join the Marine corps and get shot at in Afganistan when they're 18. I think they can handle internet criticism about their crappy attitude. |
I don't follow the boys' side much, but I know when I was covering high school sports, I got just as many complaints about negative comments from boys' parents as girls.
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Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
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| Posted: 06/13/14 4:50 pm ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
I don't follow the boys' side much, but I know when I was covering high school sports, I got just as many complaints about negative comments from boys' parents as girls. |
It's one thing for high school parents to defend their own kid or their kid's teammate, regardless of their sex (heck, Allen Iverson's mom was defending him against all the criticism when he was 30 year old and a 10 year NBA millionaire). But that's not the same as internet posters making sweeping objections to any criticism of any female college player with the worn out "they're just delicate little flowers who can't handle criticism" rubbish about players they've never met in their lives. I expect Stephanie Dolson and Kayla McBride and Odyssey Sims would find that highly condescending.
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Rock Hard
Joined: 02 Aug 2010
Posts: 5385
Location: Chocolate Paradise
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Phil
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 1274
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| Posted: 06/14/14 8:19 am ::: |
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| Antonelli's piece makes the case that Tennessee is a natural fit for DD. Nothing in the article explains why anything is different than when she made her decision. So why did she choose UNC?
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 11157
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PRballer
Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 2544
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| Posted: 06/14/14 11:23 am ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
| Rock Hard wrote: |
It does not matter if you love her attitude or hate it. She has to do what is best for her and to mature at her own speed. If you do not like her attitude then make it your business not to watch any games she participates in. That way your eyes will not be offended.  |
I think that's a little disingenuous. For one thing, DeShields is a huge, huge talent who could be a charismatic star at the highest levels -- and at that point, in terms of the game as a whole, her attitude is crucial. If she's perceived positively, the whole sport benefits; if she's perceived negatively, a chance to grow is missed.
I'm not blaming Chamique Holdsclaw, but her problems not only hurt her, but the game as a whole. |
Interesting point on Holdsclaw. She was wildly popular coming out of Tennessee and it seems she could have had a nice, long career in the WNBA and helped keep the Mystics franchise going at a high rate well into her 30s. But there are also a lot of "what if they..." in the women's game and it's usually more about injury (Gemelos, Stiles) than attitude or mental health issues (Braxton, Holdsclaw.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7852
Location: Shenandoah Valley
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beknighted
Joined: 11 Nov 2004
Posts: 11050
Location: Lost in D.C.
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| Posted: 06/14/14 1:01 pm ::: |
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| PRballer wrote: |
| ClayK wrote: |
| Rock Hard wrote: |
| It does not matter if you love her attitude or hate it. She has to do what is best for her and to mature at her own speed. If you do not like her attitude then make it your business not to watch any games she participates in. That way your eyes will not be offended. |
I think that's a little disingenuous. For one thing, DeShields is a huge, huge talent who could be a charismatic star at the highest levels -- and at that point, in terms of the game as a whole, her attitude is crucial. If she's perceived positively, the whole sport benefits; if she's perceived negatively, a chance to grow is missed.
I'm not blaming Chamique Holdsclaw, but her problems not only hurt her, but the game as a whole. |
Interesting point on Holdsclaw. She was wildly popular coming out of Tennessee and it seems she could have had a nice, long career in the WNBA and helped keep the Mystics franchise going at a high rate well into her 30s. But there are also a lot of "what if they..." in the women's game and it's usually more about injury (Gemelos, Stiles) than attitude or mental health issues (Braxton, Holdsclaw. |
I'm not really comfortable putting "attitude" and "mental health issues" together. Attitude is voluntary and easily fixable if you want to fix it. Mental health issues are real illnesses that are dangerous to your life and that you really can't fix on your own.
(I understand that you didn't mean to denigrate Holdsclaw or the seriousness of her illness, so please don't think I mean this as a dig at you.)
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Rock Hard
Joined: 02 Aug 2010
Posts: 5385
Location: Chocolate Paradise
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 14110
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| Posted: 06/16/14 5:01 am ::: |
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| Youth Coach wrote: |
Oh please, disgusted by a piss poor attitude is not hating someone.
What would be nice is seeing people not dismissing her attitude issues because she's a teenager. |
How about not making a judgement on someone when you know nothing about them, you don't know what happened to her, why she did what she did, what she was thinking, what she felt, etc., yet you are disgusted by her attitude and hope she gets a better one during the year she sits out.
I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't be turned off by her attitude in that one moment, but why are you going to use that one moment to make an overall judgement on her as a person.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
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| Posted: 06/16/14 9:09 am ::: |
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| GEF34 wrote: |
| Youth Coach wrote: |
Oh please, disgusted by a piss poor attitude is not hating someone.
What would be nice is seeing people not dismissing her attitude issues because she's a teenager. |
How about not making a judgement on someone when you know nothing about them, you don't know what happened to her, why she did what she did, what she was thinking, what she felt, etc., yet you are disgusted by her attitude and hope she gets a better one during the year she sits out.
I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't be turned off by her attitude in that one moment, but why are you going to use that one moment to make an overall judgement on her as a person. |
I don't know Dennis Rodman, Allen Iverson, Terrel Owens, Aaron Hernandez, or OJ Simpson personally either, but that doesn't mean I can't criticize what they say or how they act in public or draw conclusions about them from their public behavior.
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#Occasionalwnbafan
Joined: 01 Mar 2012
Posts: 1380
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| Posted: 06/16/14 10:57 am ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| GEF34 wrote: |
| Youth Coach wrote: |
Oh please, disgusted by a piss poor attitude is not hating someone.
What would be nice is seeing people not dismissing her attitude issues because she's a teenager. |
How about not making a judgement on someone when you know nothing about them, you don't know what happened to her, why she did what she did, what she was thinking, what she felt, etc., yet you are disgusted by her attitude and hope she gets a better one during the year she sits out.
I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't be turned off by her attitude in that one moment, but why are you going to use that one moment to make an overall judgement on her as a person. |
I don't know Dennis Rodman, Allen Iverson, Terrel Owens, Aaron Hernandez, or OJ Simpson personally either, but that doesn't mean I can't criticize what they say or how they act in public or draw conclusions about them from their public behavior. |
It sucks that your a fan of the school that Skylar Diggins played for Ugh! |
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 11157
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| Posted: 06/16/14 11:19 am ::: |
Reply |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| GEF34 wrote: |
| Youth Coach wrote: |
Oh please, disgusted by a piss poor attitude is not hating someone.
What would be nice is seeing people not dismissing her attitude issues because she's a teenager. |
How about not making a judgement on someone when you know nothing about them, you don't know what happened to her, why she did what she did, what she was thinking, what she felt, etc., yet you are disgusted by her attitude and hope she gets a better one during the year she sits out.
I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't be turned off by her attitude in that one moment, but why are you going to use that one moment to make an overall judgement on her as a person. |
I don't know Dennis Rodman, Allen Iverson, Terrel Owens, Aaron Hernandez, or OJ Simpson personally either, but that doesn't mean I can't criticize what they say or how they act in public or draw conclusions about them from their public behavior. |
X_______________
And such speculation comes with the territory of being an elite athlete, or any kind of a celebrity. If someone accepts the benefits, then they have to accept the downside.
_________________
Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 14110
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| Posted: 06/16/14 1:08 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| GEF34 wrote: |
| Youth Coach wrote: |
Oh please, disgusted by a piss poor attitude is not hating someone.
What would be nice is seeing people not dismissing her attitude issues because she's a teenager. |
How about not making a judgement on someone when you know nothing about them, you don't know what happened to her, why she did what she did, what she was thinking, what she felt, etc., yet you are disgusted by her attitude and hope she gets a better one during the year she sits out.
I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't be turned off by her attitude in that one moment, but why are you going to use that one moment to make an overall judgement on her as a person. |
I don't know Dennis Rodman, Allen Iverson, Terrel Owens, Aaron Hernandez, or OJ Simpson personally either, but that doesn't mean I can't criticize what they say or how they act in public or draw conclusions about them from their public behavior. |
The fact that you can do it, doesn't mean you should do it.
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 14110
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| Posted: 06/16/14 1:12 pm ::: |
Reply |
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| ClayK wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| GEF34 wrote: |
| Youth Coach wrote: |
Oh please, disgusted by a piss poor attitude is not hating someone.
What would be nice is seeing people not dismissing her attitude issues because she's a teenager. |
How about not making a judgement on someone when you know nothing about them, you don't know what happened to her, why she did what she did, what she was thinking, what she felt, etc., yet you are disgusted by her attitude and hope she gets a better one during the year she sits out.
I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't be turned off by her attitude in that one moment, but why are you going to use that one moment to make an overall judgement on her as a person. |
I don't know Dennis Rodman, Allen Iverson, Terrel Owens, Aaron Hernandez, or OJ Simpson personally either, but that doesn't mean I can't criticize what they say or how they act in public or draw conclusions about them from their public behavior. |
X_______________
And such speculation comes with the territory of being an elite athlete, or any kind of a celebrity. If someone accepts the benefits, then they have to accept the downside. |
While that is true, that is completely stupid in my opinion, and that is what leads fans to thing they can say whatever they want to players at games, on twitter, on facebook, on instagram, etc.
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