| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
SkyBrett
Joined: 17 Sep 2012
Posts: 9
Back to top |
 Posted: 09/24/12 2:44 pm ::: International Competition In Women's Soccer vs. Basketball |
Reply  |
|
I've been a fan of women's sports for a long time. But I am more interested in women's soccer than women's basketball for a simple reason: one country does not dominate women's soccer the way one country dominates women's basketball.
The 2012 Olympic women's soccer tournament was great theater because four or five countries had a legitimate shot to win it. And Germany didn't even qualify for the tournament. If they had qualified they would have contended for the gold medal too.
On the other hand, USA Women's basketball is a victim of its own success. Their dominance in the sport has depressed the value of international competition. It's not the USA's fault that other countries haven't caught up. It's just an unfortunate situation. What do you think?
Dave
P.S. Here is my women's soccer video site:
http://www.davebrett.com/Women.htm
|
|
Hawkeye
Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Posts: 760
Location: Houston, TX
Back to top |
|
SkyBrett
Joined: 17 Sep 2012
Posts: 9
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/30/12 12:01 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| No, I wouldn't say that women's basketball should be eliminated from the Olympics. But I would say that the USA should send a team of college all stars instead of professionals. That would improve the competition and give other countries a shot of winning gold. What do you think of that idea?
|
|
Hawkeye
Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Posts: 760
Location: Houston, TX
Back to top |
| Posted: 12/03/12 2:18 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| I don't like it--as the USA would be the only country sending amateurs. The rest of the world sends it's pros--so should the USA
|
|
SkyBrett
Joined: 17 Sep 2012
Posts: 9
Back to top |
| Posted: 07/09/13 8:29 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Softball was eliminated from the Olympics because one country (the USA) always won it. But I never liked softball anyway. It always seemed like a bastardized version of baseball. Women don't play a different version of soccer or a different version of basketball. They shouldn't play a different version of baseball either. They should just play the same thing that men play.
|
|
pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66912
Location: Where the action is
Back to top |
| Posted: 07/09/13 9:07 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| SkyBrett wrote: |
| Softball was eliminated from the Olympics because one country (the USA) always won it. |
Except that they didn't. The US won three times and the Japanese won once.
_________________
I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
|
|
SkyBrett
Joined: 17 Sep 2012
Posts: 9
Back to top |
| Posted: 07/09/13 9:32 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| pilight wrote: |
| Except that they didn't. The US won three times and the Japanese won once. |
I stand corrected. Japan did win once. Has the USA ever lost in Olympic women's basketball? Not that I can remember.
|
|
pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66912
Location: Where the action is
Back to top |
| Posted: 07/09/13 11:11 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| SkyBrett wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| Except that they didn't. The US won three times and the Japanese won once. |
I stand corrected. Japan did win once. Has the USA ever lost in Olympic women's basketball? Not that I can remember. |
The USSR won gold in 1976 and 1980. The Unified Team won in 1992.
There are other team events where a single country has been more dominant than the US women's softball team, at least initially.
South Korea has won all seven women's team archery Gold Medals.
The USA won 12 of the first 14 men's 4x100 relays and four of the first five 4x400 relays
China has won five of the six women's doubles badminton Gold Medals
The USA won eight of the first nine men's basketball Gold Medals (and should have won all nine)
The USSR won the first six Biathlon 4x7.5km relay Gold Medals, and might have won more if not for the country breaking up.
The USA has won four of the five women's soccer Gold Medals
India won six of the first eight men's field hockey Gold Medals
Canada won six of the first seven men's ice hockey Gold Medals and three of the first four women's ice hockey Golds
Russia has won four of the five rhythmic gymnastics Gold Medals
The USA won the first five men's double skulls rowing Gold Medals. Germany won the first five women's quadruple skulls rowing Gold Medals.
South Korea won four of the first five women's 3000m relay speed skating Gold Medals
There are plenty more.
_________________
I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
|
|
SkyBrett
Joined: 17 Sep 2012
Posts: 9
Back to top |
| Posted: 07/10/13 12:02 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| pilight wrote: |
| Except that they didn't. The US won three times and the Japanese won once. |
Although in 2006 when the decision was made to drop softball from the
Olympics the USA had a winning streak that had gone on forever.
|
|
pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66912
Location: Where the action is
Back to top |
| Posted: 07/10/13 7:30 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| SkyBrett wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| Except that they didn't. The US won three times and the Japanese won once. |
Although in 2006 when the decision was made to drop softball from the
Olympics the USA had a winning streak that had gone on forever. |
They'd won three. Like I said, there are plenty of other sports where one team has been more dominant when it was first introduced.
_________________
I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
|
|
sbcatcher45
Joined: 05 Dec 2008
Posts: 638
Location: san marcos
Back to top |
| Posted: 07/12/13 2:24 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Softball was not eliminated from the Olympics because one team one too much. It was eliminated because it was lumped in with baseball and baseball was eliminated because of the steroid problem they are still having and because of MLB's refusal to send its best athletes because they didn't want to lose out on a few weeks of pay during their season and MLB won't take an Olympic break like basketball and soccer does in their seasons.
ALso, softball is not a different version of baseball. It was its own sport actually invented for men to play indoors when they could not play baseball outside. We still have professional men's fastpitch softball teams all over the country. Yes the two sports are similar but there are also a lot of differences in rules and strategy. There are also women's professional baseball teams and leagues around the country. The IOC admitted after voting on the elimination of softball that they had never seen a softball game before and assumed it was just women's baseball. They later recanted after attending one of the final Olympic games that softball is a different sport and should be considered separate of baseball and that a mistake was made lumping the two of them together as one vote._________________ Avatar: The home opener of the new 1,000 seat Texas State Softball Bobcat Stadium against Texas A&M... Total attendance 1,365  |
|
pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66912
Location: Where the action is
Back to top |
| Posted: 07/12/13 2:26 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| sbcatcher45 wrote: |
| Softball was not eliminated from the Olympics because one team one too much. It was eliminated because it was lumped in with baseball and baseball was eliminated because of the steroid problem they are still having and because of MLB's refusal to send its best athletes because they didn't want to lose out on a few weeks of pay during their season and MLB won't take an Olympic break like basketball and soccer does in their seasons. |
Basketball doesn't have to take a break for the Olympics. The Olympics accommodated them by holding it in the Summer Games even though basketball is and always has been a Winter sport.
_________________
I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
|
|
sbcatcher45
Joined: 05 Dec 2008
Posts: 638
Location: san marcos
Back to top |
| Posted: 07/12/13 2:39 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| pilight wrote: |
| sbcatcher45 wrote: |
| Softball was not eliminated from the Olympics because one team one too much. It was eliminated because it was lumped in with baseball and baseball was eliminated because of the steroid problem they are still having and because of MLB's refusal to send its best athletes because they didn't want to lose out on a few weeks of pay during their season and MLB won't take an Olympic break like basketball and soccer does in their seasons. |
Basketball doesn't have to take a break for the Olympics. The Olympics accommodated them by holding it in the Summer Games even though basketball is and always has been a Winter sport. |
We are not talking about the NBA we are talking about the WNBA. The WNBA takes a break during their season in Olympic years so their players can go play in the olympics._________________ Avatar: The home opener of the new 1,000 seat Texas State Softball Bobcat Stadium against Texas A&M... Total attendance 1,365 |
|
pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66912
Location: Where the action is
Back to top |
| Posted: 07/12/13 2:41 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| sbcatcher45 wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| sbcatcher45 wrote: |
| Softball was not eliminated from the Olympics because one team one too much. It was eliminated because it was lumped in with baseball and baseball was eliminated because of the steroid problem they are still having and because of MLB's refusal to send its best athletes because they didn't want to lose out on a few weeks of pay during their season and MLB won't take an Olympic break like basketball and soccer does in their seasons. |
Basketball doesn't have to take a break for the Olympics. The Olympics accommodated them by holding it in the Summer Games even though basketball is and always has been a Winter sport. |
We are not talking about the NBA we are talking about the WNBA. The WNBA takes a break during their season in Olympic years so their players can go play in the olympics. |
The WNBA didn't exist when basketball was started at the Olympics. Everyone else plays in the winter, as was intended.
_________________
I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
|
|
sbcatcher45
Joined: 05 Dec 2008
Posts: 638
Location: san marcos
Back to top |
| Posted: 07/12/13 2:46 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| pilight wrote: |
| sbcatcher45 wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| sbcatcher45 wrote: |
| Softball was not eliminated from the Olympics because one team one too much. It was eliminated because it was lumped in with baseball and baseball was eliminated because of the steroid problem they are still having and because of MLB's refusal to send its best athletes because they didn't want to lose out on a few weeks of pay during their season and MLB won't take an Olympic break like basketball and soccer does in their seasons. |
Basketball doesn't have to take a break for the Olympics. The Olympics accommodated them by holding it in the Summer Games even though basketball is and always has been a Winter sport. |
We are not talking about the NBA we are talking about the WNBA. The WNBA takes a break during their season in Olympic years so their players can go play in the olympics. |
The WNBA didn't exist when basketball was started at the Olympics. Everyone else plays in the winter, as was intended. |
And this is all relevant to the convo why? The point was, softball was removed from the Olympics because of baseballs refusal to take the Olympics seriously and that was what eliminated both them and softball, not because one team dominates._________________ Avatar: The home opener of the new 1,000 seat Texas State Softball Bobcat Stadium against Texas A&M... Total attendance 1,365 |
|
SkyBrett
Joined: 17 Sep 2012
Posts: 9
Back to top |
| Posted: 07/12/13 4:14 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| sbcatcher45 wrote: |
| softball was removed from the Olympics because of baseballs refusal to take the Olympics seriously |
Major League Baseball would not suspend its season to accommodate the Olympics. And as a result the best baseball players could not participate in the Olympics. But that had no bearing on how the IOC viewed softball. The best softball players were in the Olympics. It didn't matter. Softball wasn't popular enough.
The dominance of one team (the USA) in softball sure didn't help. If there had been five or six countries that were equally good at softball I bet the sport would have stayed in the Olympics.
|
|
pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66912
Location: Where the action is
Back to top |
| Posted: 07/12/13 4:22 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| sbcatcher45 wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| sbcatcher45 wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| sbcatcher45 wrote: |
| Softball was not eliminated from the Olympics because one team one too much. It was eliminated because it was lumped in with baseball and baseball was eliminated because of the steroid problem they are still having and because of MLB's refusal to send its best athletes because they didn't want to lose out on a few weeks of pay during their season and MLB won't take an Olympic break like basketball and soccer does in their seasons. |
Basketball doesn't have to take a break for the Olympics. The Olympics accommodated them by holding it in the Summer Games even though basketball is and always has been a Winter sport. |
We are not talking about the NBA we are talking about the WNBA. The WNBA takes a break during their season in Olympic years so their players can go play in the olympics. |
The WNBA didn't exist when basketball was started at the Olympics. Everyone else plays in the winter, as was intended. |
And this is all relevant to the convo why? The point was, softball was removed from the Olympics because of baseballs refusal to take the Olympics seriously and that was what eliminated both them and softball, not because one team dominates. |
The point being that they were willing to make an accommodation for basketball even though it was completely dominated by one country for decades. They were not willing to do the same for baseball/softball.
_________________
I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
|
|
SkyBrett
Joined: 17 Sep 2012
Posts: 9
Back to top |
|
pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66912
Location: Where the action is
Back to top |
|
sbcatcher45
Joined: 05 Dec 2008
Posts: 638
Location: san marcos
Back to top |
| Posted: 07/12/13 4:45 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| SkyBrett wrote: |
| sbcatcher45 wrote: |
| softball was removed from the Olympics because of baseballs refusal to take the Olympics seriously |
Major League Baseball would not suspend its season to accommodate the Olympics. And as a result the best baseball players could not participate in the Olympics. But that had no bearing on how the IOC viewed softball. The best softball players were in the Olympics. It didn't matter. Softball wasn't popular enough.
The dominance of one team (the USA) in softball sure didn't help. If there had been five or six countries that were equally good at softball I bet the sport would have stayed in the Olympics. |
How the IOC viewed baseball has everything to do with why softball was eliminated. IOC even admitted to knowing nothing about the sport. Baseball and softball were a package deal, they were voted on as one entity, and the IOC wanted baseball gone. And the best athletes could have gone if they wanted to they just chose not to._________________ Avatar: The home opener of the new 1,000 seat Texas State Softball Bobcat Stadium against Texas A&M... Total attendance 1,365 |
|
btharner
Joined: 17 Feb 2008
Posts: 109
Back to top |
| Posted: 07/12/13 7:18 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
First of all, basketball is not a winter sport (at least by the IOC's definition of a sport contested on snow or ice) and will never be a part of the winter games.
Softball sadly did pay the price for looking too similar to baseball. How ironic is that both sports are now part of the same international federation as they attempt to regain a spot on the Olympic program. I do not feel this maneuver will be successful as the uproar caused by the dropping of wrestling will likely lead to its reinstatement.
As to the original point of this thread. Women's soccer is head and shoulders above basketball when it comes to competitiveness at the international level. Simply because height is not the factor in soccer than it is in basketball. The teams with the bigs will always have an advantage in hoops while in soccer, a country like Japan wins the World Cup with players who are certainly not physically imposing.
|
|
pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66912
Location: Where the action is
Back to top |
| Posted: 07/12/13 10:44 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| btharner wrote: |
| First of all, basketball is not a winter sport (at least by the IOC's definition of a sport contested on snow or ice) and will never be a part of the winter games. |
They didn't define it that way until 2007 and there's nothing preventing them from changing the definition if they see fit.
_________________
I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
|
|
btharner
Joined: 17 Feb 2008
Posts: 109
Back to top |
| Posted: 07/13/13 2:31 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| pilight wrote: |
| btharner wrote: |
| First of all, basketball is not a winter sport (at least by the IOC's definition of a sport contested on snow or ice) and will never be a part of the winter games. |
They didn't define it that way until 2007 and there's nothing preventing them from changing the definition if they see fit. |
Actually I find references to that in the Olympic Charter dating back to the 1980s. They could change it at anytime, but I do not think they will mess with their black and white definition of what constitutes a winter sport.
|
|
Richard 77
Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 4141
Location: Lake Mills, Wisconsin
Back to top |
| Posted: 07/13/13 3:04 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
The way I see this, the reason one international soccer team hasn't been dominate over other team is because more countries want to win an international soccer championship than any other sport. To them, a soccer championship means bragging rrights. Many countries could possibly not care less to get those same rights for basketball. As for the U.S., they Russia and China are interchangeable. They just want to win everything._________________ If you cannot inspire yourself to read a book about women's basketball, or any book about women's sports, you cannot inspire any young girl or boy to write a book about them. http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/Richardstrek |
|
|
|
