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Total Votes : 67 |
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hyperetic
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 5385 Location: Fayetteville
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Posted: 09/29/12 2:16 pm ::: Perceived Villainy |
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Now that so many perceive the Mercury as tankers, cheaters, villains (if you will), will there be extra incentive for fans to root against a once very favored team? When the Pistons became the Bad Boys, they enjoyed a modicum of success. They really didn't care about perceptions. I wonder how other teams feel about the situation. Will they be more apt to get up for games against the new look PHX than they normally would have. Will they use PHX as a rallying point? |
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coffy73
Joined: 24 Sep 2009 Posts: 2602
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Posted: 09/29/12 2:45 pm ::: |
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I really disliked the Detroit Shock, but I grew to love their antics and bad girl attitude. The team themselves could care less how they were looked at and it buoyed them to success. I have a feeling the Mercury are gonna be the same way. Diana is always better when the opposing crowd boos her, so no change there. The Merc were my favorite team when Cappie was there, but wained a bit after. This season completely destroyed the little like I had for them, but who knows, maybe the love will be back with Griner.
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Rock Hard
Joined: 02 Aug 2010 Posts: 5387 Location: Chocolate Paradise
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Posted: 09/29/12 10:53 pm ::: |
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The majority of the fans that are going to hate the Mercury are fans of Western Conference teams. They are the ones that complained the most about PHX allegedly tanking the 2012 season. Fans of Eastern Conference teams could have cared less if PHX tanked their season or not.
_________________ You can win, as long as you keep your head to the SKY! Be OPTIMISTIC!
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hyperetic
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 5385 Location: Fayetteville
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Posted: 09/30/12 12:33 am ::: |
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If someone believes they cheated and was rewarded with the #1 spot in the draft then I would assume they would use that as a reason to root against PHX. |
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Orion
Joined: 26 Jun 2006 Posts: 952 Location: Washington, DC
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Posted: 09/30/12 7:29 am ::: Perceived Villiany |
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I am a fan of an Eastern Conference team (to greatly simplify my feelings toward the Mystics). I despise what I believe the Phoenix Mercury has done because it is so antithetical to what I think of as the behavior of WNBA teams.
If we were talking about European soccer, the faking that goes on there with fouls and flops are known and reacted to within that fan community. There was even a great commercial where the Italian team was practicing, someone blew a whistle and all the players fell on the ground moaning and grabbing a shin or ankle, etc.
What I believe the Mercury has done and gotten rewarded for is cheating the intention (however imperfect the instrument) the of the draft to even out the league, keep games competitive, etc. I think they cheated and got away with it. Contempt is what they deserve and contempt is what I (FWIW) feel for them.
_________________ An original Mystic fan.
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MuneravenMN Champion Tipster
Joined: 01 Jun 2008 Posts: 3990
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Posted: 09/30/12 12:01 pm ::: |
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Villainy? Lol!!! It is so much more banal than that. Tanking isn't cool-bad. It isn't edgy. It's lame. It's not clever. Hell they didn't even try to cleverly pull it off! Phoenix is about as "Bad girl" as rich suburban housewife taking a pole-dancing class to lose weight.
I find cheaters boring and uninspiring. Not worth hating and not at all likable. I used to admire and like Phoenix fans and their team even though they compete with other teams I like more personally. Now? The gloating of a few fans here has left a bad taste in my mouth and the team is just another business that is willing to be dishonest to get ahead. How dull.
My feelings about Phoenix? I feel the same way about them that I do about the Miami Heat. Yawn. I like teams that are built the old fashioned way.
_________________ Winning takes talent; to repeat takes character.
--John Wooden
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Luuuc #NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 21948
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Posted: 09/30/12 2:03 pm ::: |
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MuneravenMN wrote: |
Villainy? Lol!!! It is so much more banal than that. Tanking isn't cool-bad. It isn't edgy. It's lame. It's not clever. |
I disagree.
_________________ Thanks for calling. I wait all night for calls like these.
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braveniler58
Joined: 30 May 2007 Posts: 10537 Location: Arizona
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Rock Hard
Joined: 02 Aug 2010 Posts: 5387 Location: Chocolate Paradise
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Orion
Joined: 26 Jun 2006 Posts: 952 Location: Washington, DC
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Posted: 09/30/12 8:00 pm ::: perceived villiany |
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Sorry to disappoint you, Braveniler, but for me, contempt is best served cold. You will get nothing hotter than cold disgust from me.
Lisa Leslie was not an organized, system-wide assault on the ethics of the WNBA. She just let her elbows get crazy-wild and dangerous sometimes.
Phoenix tanking, OTOH, is a planned, unethical assault on all the role-model, stand for the good, be different than all the other sports, that the WNBA was supposed to be.
_________________ An original Mystic fan.
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mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004 Posts: 19781
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Posted: 09/30/12 8:10 pm ::: Re: perceived villiany |
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Phoenix and Taurasi have been the villian since LLL retired. The bitching is only going to increase.
I won't care when we're winning. And no matter what anyone says, y'all are gonna watch.
_________________ “Anyone point out that a Donald Trump anagram is ‘Lord Dampnut’”- Colin Mochrie
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63831
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Rock Hard
Joined: 02 Aug 2010 Posts: 5387 Location: Chocolate Paradise
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hyperetic
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 5385 Location: Fayetteville
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Posted: 10/01/12 1:41 pm ::: |
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Villainy, oftentimes, is a perception in the eye of the beholder. And we all know perception is not always reality. |
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Angus24
Joined: 13 Nov 2007 Posts: 686 Location: South Dakota
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Posted: 10/01/12 5:40 pm ::: |
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I am wondering if the league or anybody will have guts enough to react to this situation in any meaningful way. I am guessing probably not, which will be bad for the league. Bad behavior usually breeds more bad behavior.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11166
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Posted: 10/01/12 7:14 pm ::: |
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Again, if the league goes after Phoenix for what is basically unprovable intent, the same case can be made against Washington. And you know, Sylvia Fowles sat out a whole bunch of games down the stretch too, so Chicago would also be in the same category.
So does Tulsa default to the top pick, and the other three get shut out?
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63831
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Posted: 10/01/12 8:14 pm ::: |
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ClayK wrote: |
Again, if the league goes after Phoenix for what is basically unprovable intent, the same case can be made against Washington. And you know, Sylvia Fowles sat out a whole bunch of games down the stretch too, so Chicago would also be in the same category.
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2012 ........GP GS MIN Career MIN
Fowles.......25 25 31.1 31.0
Langhorne..31 31 32.2 29.0
McCoughtry.24 17 29.9 27.3
Bird...........29 29 31.0 33.0
Taurasi........8 8 20.8 31.8
Dupree......13 12 26.5 31.7
I suppose we could do a Olympic stats comparison
Come to think of it, Fowles tallied low MIN in the Olympics, right? Probably because she had a real injury.
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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caune
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 17919 Location: Valley of the Bun
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Nerd2
Joined: 06 Jun 2010 Posts: 7659
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11166
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Posted: 10/02/12 10:32 am ::: |
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Shades wrote: |
ClayK wrote: |
Again, if the league goes after Phoenix for what is basically unprovable intent, the same case can be made against Washington. And you know, Sylvia Fowles sat out a whole bunch of games down the stretch too, so Chicago would also be in the same category.
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2012 ........GP GS MIN Career MIN
Fowles.......25 25 31.1 31.0
Langhorne..31 31 32.2 29.0
McCoughtry.24 17 29.9 27.3
Bird...........29 29 31.0 33.0
Taurasi........8 8 20.8 31.8
Dupree......13 12 26.5 31.7
I suppose we could do a Olympic stats comparison
Come to think of it, Fowles tallied low MIN in the Olympics, right? Probably because she had a real injury. |
But as you point out, this is a black-and-white question. If you tanked for three games, that's the same as tanking for 20. It's either right or it's wrong.
If it's wrong to tank in the last month, it's wrong to tank in the last week, and a case could be made that that's exactly what Chicago and Washington did. I'm not saying they did, but if I'm Phoenix and you sanction me for tanking, I'm going to point to Fowles and Langhorne and say "How was that any different?"
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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MuneravenMN Champion Tipster
Joined: 01 Jun 2008 Posts: 3990
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9663
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Posted: 10/02/12 1:30 pm ::: |
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Teams had players go out with injury. As did Phoenix. But Phoenix had a player go out for tiredness (compounded by the fact that it was the biggest gym rat in the league). And the player made things worse by talking about "sitting down with management to see what's best for the future of the franchise" (regarding playing in the second half of the season after playing in the Olympics) and saying "the plan went as planned" after Phoenix was assured good lottery odds. And while some people, notably Phoenix fans, have no problem with that, a lot of fans are outraged. So at a bare minimum Laurel Richie should provide a stern directive to teams: As your team is drifting towards the bottom of the standings, do not announce players are gonna sit out because they are tired. Have them suit up, play a bit, and then fake a serious injury. And after that tell the player to zip it.
Last edited by tfan on 10/02/12 1:50 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63831
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Posted: 10/02/12 1:48 pm ::: |
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tfan wrote: |
As your team is drifting towards the bottom of the standings, do not announce players are gonna sit out because they are tired. Have them suit up, play a bit, and then fake a serious injury. And after that tell the player to zip it. |
Gee, that's much more admirable. The Merc organization might have a job waiting for you.
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9663
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Posted: 10/02/12 1:52 pm ::: |
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Shades wrote: |
tfan wrote: |
As your team is drifting towards the bottom of the standings, do not announce players are gonna sit out because they are tired. Have them suit up, play a bit, and then fake a serious injury. And after that tell the player to zip it. |
Gee, that's much more admirable. The Merc organization might have a job waiting for you. |
I am not condoning star players sitting out many games for being tired. But if it is gonna happen and the league has no problem with it, they need to provide guidance on how to do it with minimal damage to the league overall. If the reaction on this message board is typical of the fans in general, it has been damaging to the league. Imagine if Phoenix wins the next 3 WNBA championships?
Last edited by tfan on 10/02/12 2:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11166
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Posted: 10/02/12 1:58 pm ::: |
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Shades, I'm still waiting for your answer on how you differentiate between what Phoenix might have done and what Chicago and Washington might have done.
The above point about Phoenix doing it longer might have validity, but you said it's a question of right and wrong.
It's also a question of proof, and how you would prove that Washington and Chicago didn't do what you say Phoenix did do.
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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