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| Who will be the high scorer for the USA? |
| Augustus |
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4% |
[ 1 ] |
| Bird |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Cash |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Catchings |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Charles |
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18% |
[ 4 ] |
| Fowles |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Jones |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| McCoughtry |
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27% |
[ 6 ] |
| Moore |
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4% |
[ 1 ] |
| Parker |
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4% |
[ 1 ] |
| Taurasi |
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22% |
[ 5 ] |
| Whalen |
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18% |
[ 4 ] |
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| Total Votes : 22 |
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ucdt3
Joined: 09 Jun 2006
Posts: 5104
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 Posted: 08/06/12 12:56 pm ::: |
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| luvDhoops wrote: |
| norwester wrote: |
| TBH, I agree with the decision to bench Candace, anyway. She needs to not take the ball down the court like a guard. And she needs to stop shooting jump shots. That's not her role on this team. We don't need a jack of all trades, because we practically have specialists at each position. |
Well then she shouldn't have been picked for the team. You can't tell someone who's been doing something their entire career, the thing that wins, that's won them games, that's made them who they are "oh, all that stuff you're use to doing, we need you to turn it off now." It's in their DNA. It's how she plays. I wouldn't no more tell her to quit doing that, then I'd tell Catchings to quit playing with reckless abandon because she's likely to kill one of her own teammates. It's how she plays. It's what's made her Catchings.
Maybe Geno doesn't like how Parker plays. That being the case, why select a player and try to tell them to change the entire way they play? Candace catches rebounds and pushes it up court. She's done this since high school. It's led to easy layins, it's led to easy assists, likewise it's led to turnovers as well. You take the good with the bad. Most of the time, it leads to good things because it pushes tempo. You have a big who can catch a rebound and then lead the break, you're likely to get totally ahead of any defense that has time to set up.
But whatever. This is probably her last Olympics anyway. Just get the gold. |
I don't think he has a problem with that EVER. He probably loves that she can do that and when she does it. He wants this team to push the ball in transition. I think (like he said - and not what others are saying) is that he decided to go with a line-up of 3 shooters on the perimeter with Catch at the 4 to put more 3-pt. shooters on the floor and spread the floor more. He likes Parker and Angel's defensive engery and offensive talents against a wore down opposing starting unit...it makes them even MORE successful and makes THEM look better. Parker didn't look all that great in the starting line-up (both before and during the Olympics) save for one game and so far in two games off the bench has (IMO) looked better and more focused. Besides, who cares who starts, in a close game Parker will most likely be on the floor (unless she's having a horrid game) because Geno doesn't care about favorites, he cares about winning! Did you see Jones or Cash in until the 4th? No! If he was playing favorites with his UConn girls, they would be in the rotation and yet they're not. This is why they were chosen. They are the perfect 11th & 12th players. They will not bitch to him about playing time and if/when he needs them they will be ready and give him all they've got. Lawson was perfect in that role in 2008 and she ended up leading Team USA to Gold against Australia, so you never know WHO is going to come through. They are all talented!!
If you've noticed the line-up has gone from...
PG: Bird, Whalen
SG: Taurasi, Augustus
SF: Catchings, Moore, McCoughtry
PF: Parker, Cash
C: Fowles, Charles, Jones
to...
PG: Bird, Whalen
SG: Taurasi, Augustus
SF: Moore, McCoughtry
PF: Catchings, Parker, Cash
C: Charles, Fowles, Jones
...I think that's a much more effective line-up and rotation of a VERY solid 10. Now, could any of those 2nd string players be starting, absolutely, but again, who really fucking cares! |
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grrlagent
Joined: 20 Feb 2012
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scullyfu
Joined: 01 Jan 2006
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| Posted: 08/06/12 1:10 pm ::: |
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i have been more than a little impressed with angel. she has admitted to being able to change her game focus from what it is normally to do what is best for the team. if angel can do it, anyone who wants to can.
GO USA!!!
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Michelle89
Joined: 17 Nov 2010
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| Posted: 08/06/12 2:41 pm ::: |
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| dtsnms wrote: |
I'm just not getting this, other than some people think starting is the biggest thing in the world. Has anybody looked at the total minutes played?
1. Bird - 126 (I don't think anyone is surprised or should complain about that)
2. Taurasi - 113 (Not a big surprise, only people complaining are the ones mad about her sitting)
3. Charles - 111 (No Fowles for 2 games, led team in scoring early on, leads in rebounding overall, a true center)
4. (tie) Catchings/Whalen - 94 (can't complain there I'd say)
5. (tie) Parker/Augustus - 93 (one minute less than Catchings/Whalen).
So essentially there are three players with more time really than Parker. Two of which are the starting guards, and the third is the center who didn't have her regular backup due to injury. Parker has played the same as Catchings, Whalen and Augustus, and more minutes than Moore and McCoughtry.
She was phenomenal off the bench vs China, clearly her best game, especially at the head of the 3/4 court press, when she was in with Fowles (allowing her to play the 4). She is rebounding great, but she is shooting only 43%, second lowest on the team.
She is a tremendous player, maybe most talented on the team. However in some cases, its who you play with that makes things most effective for the team. Personally, I think that combo of Parker/Fowles/Whalen/McCoughtry/Augustus was better than the unit with Parker/Charles/Bird/Taurasi/Catchings. I also think that Moore has played better with the Bird/Taurasi unit as well.
Is it really that big a deal who starts? I think the team's performance yesterday really showed the best combos. |
Thank you for bringing in some facts! This and all of this!
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"Sue Bird and Lauren Jackson were and are the dynamic duo. They're the one-two punch. They're all the clich�s possible to describe people that perfectly complement each other, who make each other better and also bring out the best in the team." �Karen Bryant
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luvDhoops
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 8229
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| Posted: 08/06/12 4:37 pm ::: |
Reply |
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| Michelle89 wrote: |
| dtsnms wrote: |
I'm just not getting this, other than some people think starting is the biggest thing in the world. Has anybody looked at the total minutes played?
1. Bird - 126 (I don't think anyone is surprised or should complain about that)
2. Taurasi - 113 (Not a big surprise, only people complaining are the ones mad about her sitting)
3. Charles - 111 (No Fowles for 2 games, led team in scoring early on, leads in rebounding overall, a true center)
4. (tie) Catchings/Whalen - 94 (can't complain there I'd say)
5. (tie) Parker/Augustus - 93 (one minute less than Catchings/Whalen).
So essentially there are three players with more time really than Parker. Two of which are the starting guards, and the third is the center who didn't have her regular backup due to injury. Parker has played the same as Catchings, Whalen and Augustus, and more minutes than Moore and McCoughtry.
She was phenomenal off the bench vs China, clearly her best game, especially at the head of the 3/4 court press, when she was in with Fowles (allowing her to play the 4). She is rebounding great, but she is shooting only 43%, second lowest on the team.
She is a tremendous player, maybe most talented on the team. However in some cases, its who you play with that makes things most effective for the team. Personally, I think that combo of Parker/Fowles/Whalen/McCoughtry/Augustus was better than the unit with Parker/Charles/Bird/Taurasi/Catchings. I also think that Moore has played better with the Bird/Taurasi unit as well.
Is it really that big a deal who starts? I think the team's performance yesterday really showed the best combos. |
Thank you for bringing in some facts! This and all of this! |
You mean the fact that the Uconn players are getting the most minutes. Wasn't that what was being said anyway lol
Also from Geno:
| Quote: |
| Yeah, I’ve coached Diana since before her freshman year in college... And right before we were playing Brazil I said ‘Look stop screwing around and trying to get everybody involved, and we need you to get 30 tonight.’ And she got 29... And the rest of the team I think really really gets their confidence from her.... |
Geez, we get it coach, you LOVE you some DT, lol!
I don't care (I really don't). I just noticed the team's new approach to substitutions, saw Marcus' tweet and thought, wowza, interesting. I want a gold medal. If a coach for a school wants to play the players he's comfortable with the most because he actually coached them, so be it.
On a related note, one would think the squad that would play best together would be the Whalen, Moore, Augustus + whoever combo. They should know each other's very thoughts at this point. Then of course, folks would say it isn't fair that the Lynx squad is getting the most minutes.
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norwester
Joined: 14 Jun 2006
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mercfan3
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Shades
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 08/06/12 5:22 pm ::: |
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And Parker is a bad defensive player -- all she wants to do is block shots, so she gets herself out of position.
She's still a great player, though, and if she started again, that's fine. As long as Cash and Jones don't get big minutes, it's all good ...
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 08/06/12 5:50 pm ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
| And Parker is a bad defensive player -- all she wants to do is block shots, so she gets herself out of position. |
All Griner wants to do is block shots. Would you consider her a bad defensive player?
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sambista
Joined: 25 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 08/06/12 6:44 pm ::: |
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well, i FINALLY got to see a real game. chinese tv stayed true by showing only chinese competitions and showed the game. my gods - felt like china fielded five players and the u.s., double that. i saw the chinese team play in other contests, and they were more aggressive in the other games. intimidated as hell?
two interesting notes: 1) the chinese commentator must've said "maya moore" about 30 times. i may have missed it, but i didn't hear any other names except parker once and geno once. he even said maya's name when she was sitting on the bench! i listened for at least "sue bird," figuring he could say that, but he didn't.
i was able to understand a few bits in chinese. commentator said "mei you" a LOT (don't have, there isn't) when a chinese player shot and missed. and he repeated that the chinese team needed a stop right now (he stopped saying that by the third quarter).
i also don't know if the game feed was the same for everybody, so you may have seen this, too: during a timeout, geno said to the team something like, "it's fun watching you guys play." that was cool.
btw, whoever's providing downloads on eztv must be in canada, and it's so refreshing to see an impartial broadcast. i watched the women's all-around gymnastics and, while they did focus some on the canadian favorite (don't remember her name), they gave all the top gymnasts their due with special focus, rightfully so, on gabby douglas.
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dtsnms
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 08/06/12 7:50 pm ::: |
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| sambista wrote: |
well, i FINALLY got to see a real game. chinese tv stayed true by showing only chinese competitions and showed the game. my gods - felt like china fielded five players and the u.s., double that. i saw the chinese team play in other contests, and they were more aggressive in the other games. intimidated as hell?
two interesting notes: 1) the chinese commentator must've said "maya moore" about 30 times. i may have missed it, but i didn't hear any other names except parker once and geno once. he even said maya's name when she was sitting on the bench! i listened for at least "sue bird," figuring he could say that, but he didn't.
i was able to understand a few bits in chinese. commentator said "mei you" a LOT (don't have, there isn't) when a chinese player shot and missed. and he repeated that the chinese team needed a stop right now (he stopped saying that by the third quarter).
i also don't know if the game feed was the same for everybody, so you may have seen this, too: during a timeout, geno said to the team something like, "it's fun watching you guys play." that was cool.
btw, whoever's providing downloads on eztv must be in canada, and it's so refreshing to see an impartial broadcast. i watched the women's all-around gymnastics and, while they did focus some on the canadian favorite (don't remember her name), they gave all the top gymnasts their due with special focus, rightfully so, on gabby douglas. |
Maya has signed to play in China this winter. I would suspect that is why she was named so much.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 63770
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| Posted: 08/06/12 7:57 pm ::: |
Reply |
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| dtsnms wrote: |
| sambista wrote: |
well, i FINALLY got to see a real game. chinese tv stayed true by showing only chinese competitions and showed the game. my gods - felt like china fielded five players and the u.s., double that. i saw the chinese team play in other contests, and they were more aggressive in the other games. intimidated as hell?
two interesting notes: 1) the chinese commentator must've said "maya moore" about 30 times. i may have missed it, but i didn't hear any other names except parker once and geno once. he even said maya's name when she was sitting on the bench! i listened for at least "sue bird," figuring he could say that, but he didn't.
i was able to understand a few bits in chinese. commentator said "mei you" a LOT (don't have, there isn't) when a chinese player shot and missed. and he repeated that the chinese team needed a stop right now (he stopped saying that by the third quarter).
i also don't know if the game feed was the same for everybody, so you may have seen this, too: during a timeout, geno said to the team something like, "it's fun watching you guys play." that was cool.
btw, whoever's providing downloads on eztv must be in canada, and it's so refreshing to see an impartial broadcast. i watched the women's all-around gymnastics and, while they did focus some on the canadian favorite (don't remember her name), they gave all the top gymnasts their due with special focus, rightfully so, on gabby douglas. |
Maya has signed to play in China this winter. I would suspect that is why she was named so much. |
Hmmm....will she be playing with Cambage?
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sambista
Joined: 25 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 08/06/12 8:04 pm ::: |
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| dtsnms wrote: |
| Maya has signed to play in China this winter. I would suspect that is why she was named so much. |
what team/city? i saw swinny on tv briefly last season, but it's hard finding info beyond schedules. i'm surrounded by chinese colleagues, but none could find out for me where the women play in shanghai. i looked at the site myself via chrome translation and saw no info about arena or address.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 08/06/12 8:09 pm ::: |
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| sambista wrote: |
| dtsnms wrote: |
| Maya has signed to play in China this winter. I would suspect that is why she was named so much. |
what team/city? i saw swinny on tv briefly last season, but it's hard finding info beyond schedules. i'm surrounded by chinese colleagues, but none could find out for me where the women play in shanghai. i looked at the site myself via chrome translation and saw no info about arena or address. |
Shangxu Xing Rui Flame in Taiyuan, China
BTW, Cambage signed with Zheijang Chouzhou
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Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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Nerd2
Joined: 06 Jun 2010
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| Posted: 08/06/12 11:44 pm ::: |
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| luvDhoops wrote: |
| norwester wrote: |
| TBH, I agree with the decision to bench Candace, anyway. She needs to not take the ball down the court like a guard. And she needs to stop shooting jump shots. That's not her role on this team. We don't need a jack of all trades, because we practically have specialists at each position. |
Well then she shouldn't have been picked for the team. You can't tell someone who's been doing something their entire career, the thing that wins, that's won them games, that's made them who they are "oh, all that stuff you're use to doing, we need you to turn it off now." It's in their DNA. It's how she plays. I wouldn't no more tell her to quit doing that, then I'd tell Catchings to quit playing with reckless abandon because she's likely to kill one of her own teammates. It's how she plays. It's what's made her Catchings.
Maybe Geno doesn't like how Parker plays. That being the case, why select a player and try to tell them to change the entire way they play? Candace catches rebounds and pushes it up court. She's done this since high school. It's led to easy layins, it's led to easy assists, likewise it's led to turnovers as well. You take the good with the bad. Most of the time, it leads to good things because it pushes tempo. You have a big who can catch a rebound and then lead the break, you're likely to get totally ahead of any defense that has time to set up.
But whatever. This is probably her last Olympics anyway. Just get the gold. |
Angel's managed to change the way she plays. Whalen and Augustus are not complaining about being second string. Bottom line is that she is used to being the best one on the floor and the alpha dog. When she is surrounded by players as good as her, her weaknesses become a bit more glaring.
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luvDhoops
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
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| Posted: 08/07/12 12:14 am ::: |
Reply |
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| Nerd2 wrote: |
| luvDhoops wrote: |
| norwester wrote: |
| TBH, I agree with the decision to bench Candace, anyway. She needs to not take the ball down the court like a guard. And she needs to stop shooting jump shots. That's not her role on this team. We don't need a jack of all trades, because we practically have specialists at each position. |
Well then she shouldn't have been picked for the team. You can't tell someone who's been doing something their entire career, the thing that wins, that's won them games, that's made them who they are "oh, all that stuff you're use to doing, we need you to turn it off now." It's in their DNA. It's how she plays. I wouldn't no more tell her to quit doing that, then I'd tell Catchings to quit playing with reckless abandon because she's likely to kill one of her own teammates. It's how she plays. It's what's made her Catchings.
Maybe Geno doesn't like how Parker plays. That being the case, why select a player and try to tell them to change the entire way they play? Candace catches rebounds and pushes it up court. She's done this since high school. It's led to easy layins, it's led to easy assists, likewise it's led to turnovers as well. You take the good with the bad. Most of the time, it leads to good things because it pushes tempo. You have a big who can catch a rebound and then lead the break, you're likely to get totally ahead of any defense that has time to set up.
But whatever. This is probably her last Olympics anyway. Just get the gold. |
Angel's managed to change the way she plays. Whalen and Augustus are not complaining about being second string. Bottom line is that she is used to being the best one on the floor and the alpha dog. When she is surrounded by players as good as her, her weaknesses become a bit more glaring. |
Angel has always played like this. Do people seriously think she wasn't this good before?
Also Candace hasn't complained about a damn thing. Her fans have. So have the fans of the above two you also mentioned.
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Nerd2
Joined: 06 Jun 2010
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| Posted: 08/07/12 4:09 am ::: |
Reply |
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| luvDhoops wrote: |
| Nerd2 wrote: |
| luvDhoops wrote: |
| norwester wrote: |
| TBH, I agree with the decision to bench Candace, anyway. She needs to not take the ball down the court like a guard. And she needs to stop shooting jump shots. That's not her role on this team. We don't need a jack of all trades, because we practically have specialists at each position. |
Well then she shouldn't have been picked for the team. You can't tell someone who's been doing something their entire career, the thing that wins, that's won them games, that's made them who they are "oh, all that stuff you're use to doing, we need you to turn it off now." It's in their DNA. It's how she plays. I wouldn't no more tell her to quit doing that, then I'd tell Catchings to quit playing with reckless abandon because she's likely to kill one of her own teammates. It's how she plays. It's what's made her Catchings.
Maybe Geno doesn't like how Parker plays. That being the case, why select a player and try to tell them to change the entire way they play? Candace catches rebounds and pushes it up court. She's done this since high school. It's led to easy layins, it's led to easy assists, likewise it's led to turnovers as well. You take the good with the bad. Most of the time, it leads to good things because it pushes tempo. You have a big who can catch a rebound and then lead the break, you're likely to get totally ahead of any defense that has time to set up.
But whatever. This is probably her last Olympics anyway. Just get the gold. |
Angel's managed to change the way she plays. Whalen and Augustus are not complaining about being second string. Bottom line is that she is used to being the best one on the floor and the alpha dog. When she is surrounded by players as good as her, her weaknesses become a bit more glaring. |
Angel has always played like this. Do people seriously think she wasn't this good before?
Also Candace hasn't complained about a damn thing. Her fans have. So have the fans of the above two you also mentioned. |
Angel has been a ball hog on the Dream. She is less so here. And she never seems to be such a defensive game changer in the WNBA (but I may not have seen her enough). And I don't recall a lot of jawing about how Whalen should be starting instead of Sue and Augustus instead of Catch. Moore simply looks more suited to play with the particular five that are starting.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 08/07/12 6:50 am ::: |
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| Nerd2 wrote: |
| Angel has been a ball hog on the Dream. She is less so here. And she never seems to be such a defensive game changer in the WNBA (but I may not have seen her enough) |
She has teammates who can be counted on to make shots on Team USA. She has less so on the Dream.
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Michelle89
Joined: 17 Nov 2010
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| Posted: 08/07/12 7:59 am ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| Nerd2 wrote: |
| Angel has been a ball hog on the Dream. She is less so here. And she never seems to be such a defensive game changer in the WNBA (but I may not have seen her enough) |
She has teammates who can be counted on to make shots on Team USA. She has less so on the Dream. |
Even with DeSouza, Lyttle and Harding she still is a ballhog. She was a ballhog when she came to Fenerbahce but she realised very quikly that it wasnt the basketball that they played and that the coach and the team were not going to accept that from her
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