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bridgehere
Joined: 07 Feb 2010
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 Posted: 07/31/12 2:54 pm ::: |
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| PalaceAthena wrote: |
FYI, for anyone that cares...
The rule about only 2 gymnasts per country allowed to compete in the All Around was changed after the 2000 Sydney Olympics when Romania swept the podium: Andrea Raducan won gold, Simona Amanar took silver and Maria Olaru bronze. Raducan, infamously and sadly, had her gold stripped for testing positive for Sudafed, of all things, which was given to her by the team doctor because she had a cold. So the fourth place girl from China was moved up to bronze. The rest of the story...Raducan had to return her gold, but initially Amanar and Olaru refused to upgrade their medals insisting their teammate was the true all-around champion. Amanar eventually did take the gold but said it was just so she could bring it back to Romania where it belonged. And she supposedly gave the gold back to Raducan once back in Romania.
Andrea Raducan photo then...
http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-athletes-who-lost-their-olympic-medal.php/andreea-raducan-top-tenz-2
And photo now...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andreea_R%C4%83ducan |
That's a sad story. Her coach should have known better than to give her sudafed. Still I don't see why the rule was changed. Other sports have multiple competitors and a country can take all three medals. Anyway, thanks for the story.
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PalaceAthena
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 1084
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| Posted: 07/31/12 3:17 pm ::: |
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| bridgehere wrote: |
| PalaceAthena wrote: |
FYI, for anyone that cares...
The rule about only 2 gymnasts per country allowed to compete in the All Around was changed after the 2000 Sydney Olympics when Romania swept the podium: Andrea Raducan won gold, Simona Amanar took silver and Maria Olaru bronze. Raducan, infamously and sadly, had her gold stripped for testing positive for Sudafed, of all things, which was given to her by the team doctor because she had a cold. So the fourth place girl from China was moved up to bronze. The rest of the story...Raducan had to return her gold, but initially Amanar and Olaru refused to upgrade their medals insisting their teammate was the true all-around champion. Amanar eventually did take the gold but said it was just so she could bring it back to Romania where it belonged. And she supposedly gave the gold back to Raducan once back in Romania.
Andrea Raducan photo then...
http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-athletes-who-lost-their-olympic-medal.php/andreea-raducan-top-tenz-2
And photo now...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andreea_R%C4%83ducan |
That's a sad story. Her coach should have known better than to give her sudafed. Still I don't see why the rule was changed. Other sports have multiple competitors and a country can take all three medals. Anyway, thanks for the story. |
Agreed. I don't think the rule needed to be changed either. We've seen the USA sweep gold/silver/bronze in track events, so why not gymnastics. Bela Karolyi is right about one thing: it should be the best all-around gymnasts...period. Regardless of country. Romania had the best gymnasts in 2000. The USA has the best gymnasts in 2012. If that results in a sweep, so be it, I say.
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 14109
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| Posted: 07/31/12 3:17 pm ::: |
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| bridgehere wrote: |
| PalaceAthena wrote: |
FYI, for anyone that cares...
The rule about only 2 gymnasts per country allowed to compete in the All Around was changed after the 2000 Sydney Olympics when Romania swept the podium: Andrea Raducan won gold, Simona Amanar took silver and Maria Olaru bronze. Raducan, infamously and sadly, had her gold stripped for testing positive for Sudafed, of all things, which was given to her by the team doctor because she had a cold. So the fourth place girl from China was moved up to bronze. The rest of the story...Raducan had to return her gold, but initially Amanar and Olaru refused to upgrade their medals insisting their teammate was the true all-around champion. Amanar eventually did take the gold but said it was just so she could bring it back to Romania where it belonged. And she supposedly gave the gold back to Raducan once back in Romania.
Andrea Raducan photo then...
http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-athletes-who-lost-their-olympic-medal.php/andreea-raducan-top-tenz-2
And photo now...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andreea_R%C4%83ducan |
That's a sad story. Her coach should have known better than to give her sudafed. Still I don't see why the rule was changed. Other sports have multiple competitors and a country can take all three medals. Anyway, thanks for the story. |
It was the team doctor that gave her the medicine, not her coach, but I agree the team doctor should have known.
As for the rule change, 3 gymnasts per country were allowed for the all around because the top 36 qualified, it was changed to 2 per country in 2003 I believe when they decreased the number to the top 24.
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bballgrl
Joined: 15 Sep 2007
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| Posted: 07/31/12 9:47 pm ::: |
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| I just watched Komovo(sp) have a few balance checks and darn near fall on her dismount(landed in a crunch position) then too 3 BIG steps off the mat and receive a 15.033. When Gabby took 3 big steps on floor they gave her a 13.something. Imagine that!
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Genero36
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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| Posted: 07/31/12 10:04 pm ::: |
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| bballgrl wrote: |
| I just watched Komovo(sp) have a few balance checks and darn near fall on her dismount(landed in a crunch position) then too 3 BIG steps off the mat and receive a 15.033. When Gabby took 3 big steps on floor they gave her a 13.something. Imagine that! |
The biggest difference is their d scores because they basically had the same e score. Gabby Douglas on floor starts at a 5.7, her e score was 8.366 plus a .3 deduction for both feet going out of bounds, where as Viktoria Komova on beam starts at a 6.5 with an e score of 8.533. If they both started with the same or closer d scores their scores would have been a lot closer, but Viktoria starts .8 higher than Gabby before either gymnast even started the competition.
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GEF34
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bballgrl
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SORF
Joined: 06 Jan 2005
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LoveJanet
Joined: 22 Feb 2005
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| Posted: 07/31/12 11:11 pm ::: |
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| These young ladies (from every competing country) work their asses off and sacrifice their childhood for this moment. The least these judges could do is pay attention. There shouldn't have been any deduction from Kayla's vault.
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SORF
Joined: 06 Jan 2005
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| Posted: 07/31/12 11:56 pm ::: |
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| LoveJanet wrote: |
| These young ladies (from every competing country) work their asses off and sacrifice their childhood for this moment. The least these judges could do is pay attention. There shouldn't have been any deduction from Kayla's vault. |
When they showed the replay of that fantastic vault, I saw one of the judges with her mouth wide open in amazement! I bet she scored it as perfect!
Best vault of the night. If the judges take 3 tenths off of Kayla's vault, then the Russian gymnast deserved more off than 5 tenths...her legs were apart before she landed it.
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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| Posted: 08/01/12 12:42 am ::: |
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| I love just seeing the joy and excitement each gymnast and coach has after each person competes, they were truly a team and there for one another.
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blaase22
Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 4163
Location: Paradise
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| Posted: 08/01/12 2:29 am ::: |
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| SORF wrote: |
| LoveJanet wrote: |
| These young ladies (from every competing country) work their asses off and sacrifice their childhood for this moment. The least these judges could do is pay attention. There shouldn't have been any deduction from Kayla's vault. |
When they showed the replay of that fantastic vault, I saw one of the judges with her mouth wide open in amazement! I bet she scored it as perfect!
Best vault of the night. If the judges take 3 tenths off of Kayla's vault, then the Russian gymnast deserved more off than 5 tenths...her legs were apart before she landed it. |
I have a feeling she is gonna get a perfect score in the vault finals.
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bridgehere
Joined: 07 Feb 2010
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| Posted: 08/01/12 3:24 am ::: |
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A couple of questions for those in the know:
First: The competition for the individual all-around has not started, correct?
Second: Then there is a competition for each individual event, i.e. the vault, the uneven bars, etc.?
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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| Posted: 08/01/12 3:40 am ::: |
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| bridgehere wrote: |
A couple of questions for those in the know:
First: The competition for the individual all-around has not started, correct?
Second: Then there is a competition for each individual event, i.e. the vault, the uneven bars, etc.? |
That's correct, the women's all finals is August 2 at 8:30am pacific time, vault is August 5, uneven bars August 6, balance beam and floor August 7. I will post links and the start list when they become available. If you look earlier in the thread, the gymnast who have qualified for the all around and individual events is posted in the recap of the final subdivision of prelims.
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bridgehere
Joined: 07 Feb 2010
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| Posted: 08/01/12 3:45 am ::: |
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| GEF34 wrote: |
| bridgehere wrote: |
That's a sad story. Her coach should have known better than to give her sudafed. Still I don't see why the rule was changed. Other sports have multiple competitors and a country can take all three medals. Anyway, thanks for the story. |
It was the team doctor that gave her the medicine, not her coach, but I agree the team doctor should have known.
As for the rule change, 3 gymnasts per country were allowed for the all around because the top 36 qualified, it was changed to 2 per country in 2003 I believe when they decreased the number to the top 24. |
My bad, team doctor not coach and, as you said, the team doctor should have known better. I would have gone for some natural remedies, being careful not to include anything that would be illegal.
So, regarding the rule change, that only allows 24 instead of 36; I can understand that maybe there is not time for 36 to compete, but I am not sure about the 2 per country. So every country that enters the competition is allowed 2 for the all-around. Being a casual Olympic fan (as I am with all sports), how does this compare to other Olympic competitions? Are there similar type events to which this can be compared?
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bridgehere
Joined: 07 Feb 2010
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| Posted: 08/01/12 4:02 am ::: |
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| GEF34 wrote: |
| bridgehere wrote: |
A couple of questions for those in the know:
First: The competition for the individual all-around has not started, correct?
Second: Then there is a competition for each individual event, i.e. the vault, the uneven bars, etc.? |
That's correct, the women's all finals is August 2 at 8:30am pacific time, vault is August 5, uneven bars August 6, balance beam and floor August 7. I will post links and the start list when they become available. If you look earlier in the thread, the gymnast who have qualified for the all around and individual events is posted in the recap of the final subdivision of prelims. |
Great! Thanks. This is the first time I have paid this much attention to women's gymnastics and I never watch the men's. It's not that I don't appreciate the hard work and skill, I do. I remember watching Nadia when she scored the perfect 10 and before her a Soviet Union gymnast that I remember was really a crowd pleaser and really good, Olga Korbut. My dad loved her. I imagine it was the first time he had watched gymnastics, probably it was the first time he had had the time to watch the Olympics.
EDIT: Okay, I had looked for that summary before I posted but missed it.
Last edited by bridgehere on 08/01/12 4:24 am; edited 1 time in total |
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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| Posted: 08/01/12 4:20 am ::: |
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| bridgehere wrote: |
So, regarding the rule change, that only allows 24 instead of 36; I can understand that maybe there is not time for 36 to compete, but I am not sure about the 2 per country. So every country that enters the competition is allowed 2 for the all-around. Being a casual Olympic fan (as I am with all sports), how does this compare to other Olympic competitions? Are there similar type events to which this can be compared? |
Well not exactly the same, but swimming it is a 2 per country rule for each event and each country can qualify 1 relay team per relay event, diving 2 per country and 1 synchro team per synchro event, track and field it's 3 per country per event and 1 relay team per relay event. In equestrian in the team competition each country is allowed 5 riders, and only the top 3 qualify for the individual competition, I believe wrestling is only allowed on wrestler per country per weight class. So the only think that would be similar in the sense that they would qualify for individuals through a team comp is the equestrian, but in the other sports, it's not always the best swimmers/runners/jumpers/etc that are competing because of the I believe in one event the USA has had 4 of the top 10 swimmers in the world, but only 2 could qualify, and some of the running events is probably the same in track, not just for the USA, but other countries as well.
There is also another way to look at it, that the competition doesn't start with the best gymnasts in the world either because if you come from a country that qualifies a team you can't compete individually if you don't make the team, Alicia Sacramone is probably one of the best vaulters and beam workers in the world, Anna Li is one probably one of the best bars workers in the world, and the same can be said for gymnasts from countries like Russia, China, Romania who have gymnast that are event specialist, but don't have a spot on a 5 person team.
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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| Posted: 08/01/12 4:22 am ::: |
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| bridgehere wrote: |
| GEF34 wrote: |
| bridgehere wrote: |
A couple of questions for those in the know:
First: The competition for the individual all-around has not started, correct?
Second: Then there is a competition for each individual event, i.e. the vault, the uneven bars, etc.? |
That's correct, the women's all finals is August 2 at 8:30am pacific time, vault is August 5, uneven bars August 6, balance beam and floor August 7. I will post links and the start list when they become available. If you look earlier in the thread, the gymnast who have qualified for the all around and individual events is posted in the recap of the final subdivision of prelims. |
Great! Thanks. This is the first time I have paid this much attention to women's gymnastics and I never watch the men's. It's not that I don't appreciate the hard work and skill, I do. I remember watching Nadia when she scored the perfect 10 and before her a Soviet Union gymnast that I remember was really a crowd pleaser and really good, Olga Korbut. My dad loved her. I imagine it was the first time he had watched gymnastics, probably it was the first time he had had the time to watch the Olympics. |
You're welcome, and I know you said you don't watch men's gymnastics, but if you are interested in starting, their all around finals is tomorrow at 8:30am pacific time, and their have individual events on the 3 days I listed above for the individual events for the women. More info can be found in the men's gymnastics thread.
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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| Posted: 08/01/12 4:40 am ::: |
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| Watching highlights of Aly Raisman's floor routine seeing her tear up as she lands her final pass and prepares for her final pose reminds me of Alicia Sacramone in 2007 at the World Championships, they just needed to go out and hit, they didn't need a big score, but they hit their routines and as soon as they landed the knew they had clinched the gold, and they both ran off in tears to cheering teammates and coaches and they all just knew they had done something very special.
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bridgehere
Joined: 07 Feb 2010
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| Posted: 08/01/12 4:47 am ::: |
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| GEF34 wrote: |
| bridgehere wrote: |
So, regarding the rule change, that only allows 24 instead of 36; I can understand that maybe there is not time for 36 to compete, but I am not sure about the 2 per country. So every country that enters the competition is allowed 2 for the all-around. Being a casual Olympic fan (as I am with all sports), how does this compare to other Olympic competitions? Are there similar type events to which this can be compared? |
Well not exactly the same, but swimming it is a 2 per country rule for each event and each country can qualify 1 relay team per relay event, diving 2 per country and 1 synchro team per synchro event, track and field it's 3 per country per event and 1 relay team per relay event. In equestrian in the team competition each country is allowed 5 riders, and only the top 3 qualify for the individual competition, I believe wrestling is only allowed on wrestler per country per weight class. So the only think that would be similar in the sense that they would qualify for individuals through a team comp is the equestrian, but in the other sports, it's not always the best swimmers/runners/jumpers/etc that are competing because of the I believe in one event the USA has had 4 of the top 10 swimmers in the world, but only 2 could qualify, and some of the running events is probably the same in track, not just for the USA, but other countries as well.
There is also another way to look at it, that the competition doesn't start with the best gymnasts in the world either because if you come from a country that qualifies a team you can't compete individually if you don't make the team, Alicia Sacramone is probably one of the best vaulters and beam workers in the world, Anna Li is one probably one of the best bars workers in the world, and the same can be said for gymnasts from countries like Russia, China, Romania who have gymnast that are event specialist, but don't have a spot on a 5 person team. |
I didn't realize there was the limit on the other events you mentioned, so really it doesn't seem that gymnastics is much different.
You are right about not having the best gymnasts because of the people who don't make the team may be better than many on other teams. I would think that that would be true for most of the sports. Plus, sometimes you just have a bad night at the wrong time and don't make your own team when 9 times out of 10 you would have.
I might check the men's link out. I think OU has a couple of men who are on the team. Appreciate your providing all this information. Much easier for people like me who really do not know the rules of the sport. Also, the times and all help because my computer times out and I go through many reloads. Got to take the time to set-up my new wireless router and modem.
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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| Posted: 08/01/12 5:11 am ::: |
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| bridgehere wrote: |
I didn't realize there was the limit on the other events you mentioned, so really it doesn't seem that gymnastics is much different.
You are right about not having the best gymnasts because of the people who don't make the team may be better than many on other teams. I would think that that would be true for most of the sports. Plus, sometimes you just have a bad night at the wrong time and don't make your own team when 9 times out of 10 you would have.
I might check the men's link out. I think OU has a couple of men who are on the team. Appreciate your providing all this information. Much easier for people like me who really do not know the rules of the sport. Also, the times and all help because my computer times out and I go through many reloads. Got to take the time to set-up my new wireless router and modem. |
You're welcome, it's no problem at all, if you have any other questions I'll try to answer them or I'm sure others here can answer them as well.
And yes OU has 2 gymnasts that were named to the team, Jake Dalton and Jonathan Horton, both qualified for individual event, Jake will compete in floor finals on August 5 and Jonathan Horton will compete in high bar finals on August 7. On another note the 3 replacement athletes all compete at OU, and Jake Dalton will return for his senor year after the Olympics, so if you are interested you may have a chance to see an Olympic medalist compete in person, plus the other OU alumni support the team, so you may see them in the stands as well.
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Youth Coach
Joined: 23 Mar 2008
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| Posted: 08/01/12 6:12 am ::: |
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That's right ladies, you are indeed #1...
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scullyfu
Joined: 01 Jan 2006
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Location: Niagara Falls
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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