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Diana3Taurasi
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 Posted: 08/17/11 11:03 pm ::: Maya Moore vs. Tina Charles |
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| Can someone here tell me why Maya seemed to get much more attention than Tina while they were both at UCONN and why Maya is much more popular among casual fans and the media? I really didn't follow them closely when they were at UCONN, but I compared their stats from 09-10 and it's debatable as to who the better player was. As a pro in the WNBA, Tina is currently having a much better season and she had a better rookie season as well. Is it just me or does Tina not get as much credit as she deserves? |
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PatriciaT
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pilight
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| Posted: 08/17/11 11:23 pm ::: |
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Tina Charles was the best player on each of UConn's last two undefeated teams.
Maya was more popular among UConn fans in part because her recruitment got Pat Summitt's hackles up.
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Michelle89
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seeword
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bballfan2005
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| Posted: 08/18/11 9:13 am ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
Tina Charles was the best player on each of UConn's last two undefeated teams.
Maya was more popular among UConn fans in part because her recruitment got Pat Summitt's hackles up. |
I am really starting to believe this.
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jaye
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| Posted: 08/18/11 9:21 am ::: |
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| maya moore is still developing... tina charles is already the truth....
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jap
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| Posted: 08/18/11 10:07 am ::: |
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| seeword wrote: |
| Michelle89 wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
Tina Charles was the best player on each of UConn's last two undefeated teams.
Maya was more popular among UConn fans in part because her recruitment got Pat Summitt's hackles up. |
And more popular with Geno. Charles had a hard road at UConn under Geno. Seriously people were saying that Maya was a better player then DT etc is just funny  |
Also, Pat Summitt was wooing Maya and Geno got her. Petulant Pat made a big deal about it, claiming recruiting irregularities, so it became a media thing. And UCONN fans, who loath Pat, grabbed onto it and adored Maya partly because Pat didn't get her. Also, Maya was very good from the first day, Tina took a little longer to develop. |
A huge part of Tina's problem, in addition to fundamentals, is that she is a genuinely sweet kid. Geno got on her case early on and treated her pretty rough because he wanted her to toughen up and play focused, determined ball every play. All that tough love helped to result in the double double machine we see today.
I remember Geno talking about how he told Tina that UConn couldn't win championships unless she did her job. He placed the responsibility for getting the crown squarely on her shoulders, and that responsible attitude has carried over into her WNBA career.
As much as I like Maya, she cannot handle the rock like even CP3, much less your typical guard. Despite her athletics, that lack places limitations on her ability to take players off the dribble or create her own shot.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
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| Posted: 08/18/11 10:22 am ::: |
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| I think perimeter-oriented players who dominate the ball tend to get more attention. Even Lisa Leslie and Lauren Jackson are 4/5's who could/can also play on the perimeter, and they garner/garnered lots of attention. Even in the W Charles probably does not get as much attention as her performance indicates she should. Especially the fact that she is a surprisingly tough defensive player for a second-year post player.
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whitedudeluvswnba
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| Posted: 08/18/11 4:10 pm ::: |
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Even while both were at Uconn, I always thought Tina was the better player. The Huskies won 2 national championships because of Tina Charles, not because of Moore. Moore just helped them to win, but Tina was the main factor. When Uconn lost Tina to graduation, Uconn lost the national championship.
And yes Geno was harder on Tina, but that is because Tina went to Uconn and told him right from the start that she wanted to become the best center in the country and told Geno to help her become that. Which he did, and which she did. Geno was hard on her at times, but Tina wanted that, to push her to her extremes because she wanted to be the best.
If Tina went to another college, I highly doubt she'd be the dominate player she is today. Geno did the same thing to Charde, because he believed she could be a superstar. Charde just didn't respond to it, and that is why she's playing off Minnesota's bench, getting barely any playing time, and doing pretty much nothing with the time she gets.
Geno was hard on Maya a lot of times too. Just not as much, because he didn't have to be. The one thing he was on her about all the time was that she never drives to the basket enough. He stated that when she drives to the basket, no one in the country can stop her, except to foul her, which get's the other teams best player into foul trouble. Maya never listened because she hates contact.
And now in the WNBA, she's still not driving to the basket. If Maya want's to be a true WNBA superstar, she needs to start doing what Geno always wanted her to do.
Tina listened to Geno, and that is one of the reason's she's the player she is today.
I was a lot happier to get Tina Charles on my Sun team than if they would have gotten Maya Moore. Maya's a good WNBA player, but Tina's a great WNBA player. There's a big difference. I don't think Maya will ever be a real superstar until she stops relying on far out jump shots. Just like Lindsay Whalen drives to the rim, Maya needs to do the same because like Whalen, no one would be able to stop Maya from scoring layups.
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whitedudeluvswnba
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| Posted: 08/18/11 4:16 pm ::: |
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| LibWNBAFan wrote: |
| I think perimeter-oriented players who dominate the ball tend to get more attention. Even Lisa Leslie and Lauren Jackson are 4/5's who could/can also play on the perimeter, and they garner/garnered lots of attention. Even in the W Charles probably does not get as much attention as her performance indicates she should. Especially the fact that she is a surprisingly tough defensive player for a second-year post player. |
Well, Tina has won ROY, a bunch of player of the week awards, and leads the league this year in the MVP rankings.
That's quite a lot of attention.
Maya won Rookie of the Month, and will probably win ROY as well but I don't think she's won any player of the week awards, and is unlikely to the rest of the season, and she's clearly not in the MVP running.
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whitedudeluvswnba
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| Posted: 08/18/11 4:18 pm ::: |
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| jap wrote: |
| seeword wrote: |
| Michelle89 wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
Tina Charles was the best player on each of UConn's last two undefeated teams.
Maya was more popular among UConn fans in part because her recruitment got Pat Summitt's hackles up. |
And more popular with Geno. Charles had a hard road at UConn under Geno. Seriously people were saying that Maya was a better player then DT etc is just funny |
Also, Pat Summitt was wooing Maya and Geno got her. Petulant Pat made a big deal about it, claiming recruiting irregularities, so it became a media thing. And UCONN fans, who loath Pat, grabbed onto it and adored Maya partly because Pat didn't get her. Also, Maya was very good from the first day, Tina took a little longer to develop. |
A huge part of Tina's problem, in addition to fundamentals, is that she is a genuinely sweet kid. Geno got on her case early on and treated her pretty rough because he wanted her to toughen up and play focused, determined ball every play. All that tough love helped to result in the double double machine we see today.
I remember Geno talking about how he told Tina that UConn couldn't win championships unless she did her job. He placed the responsibility for getting the crown squarely on her shoulders, and that responsible attitude has carried over into her WNBA career.
As much as I like Maya, she cannot handle the rock like even CP3, much less your typical guard. Despite her athletics, that lack places limitations on her ability to take players off the dribble or create her own shot. |
He also told the media one time in a post game interview, I think after they lost to Rutgers in the regular season a few years back, that they won't win a championship because we have zero post presence on our team. Directly squarely to Tina Charles. Right after that, we started seeing the Tina that we see today.
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luvDhoops
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| Posted: 08/18/11 4:20 pm ::: |
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| whitedudeluvswnba wrote: |
And now in the WNBA, she's still not driving to the basket. If Maya want's to be a true WNBA superstar, she needs to start doing what Geno always wanted her to do.
Tina listened to Geno, and that is one of the reason's she's the player she is today.
I was a lot happier to get Tina Charles on my Sun team than if they would have gotten Maya Moore. Maya's a good WNBA player, but Tina's a great WNBA player. There's a big difference. I don't think Maya will ever be a real superstar until she stops relying on far out jump shots. Just like Lindsay Whalen drives to the rim, Maya needs to do the same because like Whalen, no one would be able to stop Maya from scoring layups. |
Maya has to learn to be an effective ball handler to do this. I remember Geno stating as much. I don't know why this was never developed more, especially at her position. Sometimes though, I wonder if she does pick up her handling ability and creates her own shot more if it will negatively effect her shooting percentage. Coming off of screens and shooting is a different ball game than creating your own shot, going in, taking contact and finishing. She needs to spend some time with Cappie.
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ucdt3
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| Posted: 08/18/11 4:45 pm ::: |
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| whitedudeluvswnba wrote: |
Even while both were at Uconn, I always thought Tina was the better player. The Huskies won 2 national championships because of Tina Charles, not because of Moore. Moore just helped them to win, but Tina was the main factor. When Uconn lost Tina to graduation, Uconn lost the national championship.
And yes Geno was harder on Tina, but that is because Tina went to Uconn and told him right from the start that she wanted to become the best center in the country and told Geno to help her become that. Which he did, and which she did. Geno was hard on her at times, but Tina wanted that, to push her to her extremes because she wanted to be the best.
If Tina went to another college, I highly doubt she'd be the dominate player she is today. Geno did the same thing to Charde, because he believed she could be a superstar. Charde just didn't respond to it, and that is why she's playing off Minnesota's bench, getting barely any playing time, and doing pretty much nothing with the time she gets.
Geno was hard on Maya a lot of times too. Just not as much, because he didn't have to be. The one thing he was on her about all the time was that she never drives to the basket enough. He stated that when she drives to the basket, no one in the country can stop her, except to foul her, which get's the other teams best player into foul trouble. Maya never listened because she hates contact.
And now in the WNBA, she's still not driving to the basket. If Maya want's to be a true WNBA superstar, she needs to start doing what Geno always wanted her to do.
Tina listened to Geno, and that is one of the reason's she's the player she is today.
I was a lot happier to get Tina Charles on my Sun team than if they would have gotten Maya Moore. Maya's a good WNBA player, but Tina's a great WNBA player. There's a big difference. I don't think Maya will ever be a real superstar until she stops relying on far out jump shots. Just like Lindsay Whalen drives to the rim, Maya needs to do the same because like Whalen, no one would be able to stop Maya from scoring layups. |
You are right that Tina has been a much better pro...but also look at the level of competition in both their positions...the SF spot is a lot deeper in talent in the WNBA than the Center spot...
But you couldn't be MORE wrong about the 2010 NCAA title game. Try re-watching the 2010 Final Four and then tell me who you think was the MAIN reason UConn defeated Baylor and Stanford...Tina might've done the job defensively in both games, but it was Maya's 34pt, 12reb performance against Baylor along with 23pt, 11reb effort against Stanford that won the MOP award that was beyond deserving especially after scoring 18 of those points after halftime of what felt like UConn's worst scoring 1st half of their history and LED them to victory over Stanford. |
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pilight
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| Posted: 08/18/11 4:53 pm ::: |
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| ucdt3 wrote: |
| whitedudeluvswnba wrote: |
Even while both were at Uconn, I always thought Tina was the better player. The Huskies won 2 national championships because of Tina Charles, not because of Moore. Moore just helped them to win, but Tina was the main factor. When Uconn lost Tina to graduation, Uconn lost the national championship.
And yes Geno was harder on Tina, but that is because Tina went to Uconn and told him right from the start that she wanted to become the best center in the country and told Geno to help her become that. Which he did, and which she did. Geno was hard on her at times, but Tina wanted that, to push her to her extremes because she wanted to be the best.
If Tina went to another college, I highly doubt she'd be the dominate player she is today. Geno did the same thing to Charde, because he believed she could be a superstar. Charde just didn't respond to it, and that is why she's playing off Minnesota's bench, getting barely any playing time, and doing pretty much nothing with the time she gets.
Geno was hard on Maya a lot of times too. Just not as much, because he didn't have to be. The one thing he was on her about all the time was that she never drives to the basket enough. He stated that when she drives to the basket, no one in the country can stop her, except to foul her, which get's the other teams best player into foul trouble. Maya never listened because she hates contact.
And now in the WNBA, she's still not driving to the basket. If Maya want's to be a true WNBA superstar, she needs to start doing what Geno always wanted her to do.
Tina listened to Geno, and that is one of the reason's she's the player she is today.
I was a lot happier to get Tina Charles on my Sun team than if they would have gotten Maya Moore. Maya's a good WNBA player, but Tina's a great WNBA player. There's a big difference. I don't think Maya will ever be a real superstar until she stops relying on far out jump shots. Just like Lindsay Whalen drives to the rim, Maya needs to do the same because like Whalen, no one would be able to stop Maya from scoring layups. |
You are right that Tina has been a much better pro...but also look at the level of competition in both their positions...the SF spot is a lot deeper in talent in the WNBA than the Center spot...
But you couldn't be MORE wrong about the 2010 NCAA title game. Try re-watching the 2010 Final Four and then tell me who you think was the MAIN reason UConn defeated Baylor and Stanford...Tina might've done the job defensively in both games, but it was Maya's 34pt, 12reb performance against Baylor along with 23pt, 11reb effort against Stanford that won the MOP award that was beyond deserving especially after scoring 18 of those points after halftime of what felt like UConn's worst scoring 1st half of their history and LED them to victory over Stanford. |
Moore was able to put those numbers up because Charles had to be double or triple teamed in the post. They ganged up on Charles because the the only possibility of beating the Hussies was to stop her at any cost. When Charles was allowed to dominate the post, they were unbeatable. Everybody knew Charles was the best player on the team, to the point that the best opponents designed their defenses around her.
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MuneravenMN
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| Posted: 08/18/11 5:16 pm ::: |
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I love Tina Charles. I just think some players are way more media savvy or socially adept than others, and those are the players who often get the most attention. Maya is a crowd-pleaser not only with her playing skills but with her outgoing personality. Some players just have an "it" factor that makes them more popular with the masses.
Please note I am not saying that Tina is not every bit as likable as Maya. I am just saying that some players manage their public persona more easily than do others.
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whitedudeluvswnba
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| Posted: 08/18/11 7:01 pm ::: |
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| MuneravenMN wrote: |
I love Tina Charles. I just think some players are way more media savvy or socially adept than others, and those are the players who often get the most attention. Maya is a crowd-pleaser not only with her playing skills but with her outgoing personality. Some players just have an "it" factor that makes them more popular with the masses.
Please note I am not saying that Tina is not every bit as likable as Maya. I am just saying that some players manage their public persona more easily than do others. |
Good point. And I will add that when you hear Maya speaking to the media compared to Tina speaking to the media, Maya is clearly the better speaker. Tina is a bit awkward and shy when talking to the media.
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blaase22
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| Posted: 08/18/11 8:43 pm ::: Re: Maya Moore vs. Tina Charles |
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| Diana3Taurasi wrote: |
| Can someone here tell me why Maya seemed to get much more attention than Tina while they were both at UCONN and why Maya is much more popular among casual fans and the media? I really didn't follow them closely when they were at UCONN, but I compared their stats from 09-10 and it's debatable as to who the better player was. As a pro in the WNBA, Tina is currently having a much better season and she had a better rookie season as well. Is it just me or does Tina not get as much credit as she deserves? |
Maya is prettier.
There's a reason why Ace, Maya and Diggins are soo popular, just saying.
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pilight
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| Posted: 08/18/11 8:46 pm ::: Re: Maya Moore vs. Tina Charles |
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| blaase22 wrote: |
| Maya is prettier. |
That's a matter of opinion.
| Quote: |
| There's a reason why Ace, Maya and Diggins are soo popular, just saying. |
#teamlightskin
One could argue it's the same reason Swin Cash was never as popular as Sue Bird up there.
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whitedudeluvswnba
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| Posted: 08/18/11 8:49 pm ::: Re: Maya Moore vs. Tina Charles |
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| blaase22 wrote: |
| Diana3Taurasi wrote: |
| Can someone here tell me why Maya seemed to get much more attention than Tina while they were both at UCONN and why Maya is much more popular among casual fans and the media? I really didn't follow them closely when they were at UCONN, but I compared their stats from 09-10 and it's debatable as to who the better player was. As a pro in the WNBA, Tina is currently having a much better season and she had a better rookie season as well. Is it just me or does Tina not get as much credit as she deserves? |
Maya is prettier.
There's a reason why Ace, Maya and Diggins are soo popular, just saying. |
So if Tina flashes her titties, she'll be more popular?
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mabell3368
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| Posted: 08/19/11 5:20 am ::: Re: Maya Moore vs. Tina Charles |
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| whitedudeluvswnba wrote: |
So if Tina flashes her titties, she'll be more popular? |
In some circles, yes, that would probably get her some attention. Depends on what kind of attention she wants!
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luvDhoops
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| Posted: 08/19/11 11:12 am ::: Re: Maya Moore vs. Tina Charles |
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| blaase22 wrote: |
| Diana3Taurasi wrote: |
| Can someone here tell me why Maya seemed to get much more attention than Tina while they were both at UCONN and why Maya is much more popular among casual fans and the media? I really didn't follow them closely when they were at UCONN, but I compared their stats from 09-10 and it's debatable as to who the better player was. As a pro in the WNBA, Tina is currently having a much better season and she had a better rookie season as well. Is it just me or does Tina not get as much credit as she deserves? |
Maya is prettier.
There's a reason why Ace, Maya and Diggins are soo popular, just saying. |
Maya being pretty is a matter of opinion. I also wouldn't consider her "light skinned" either. (That was for pilight) She's certainly lighter than Tina though, yes.
At the same time though Candace and Diggins actually were the undisputed leaders of their teams, so let's not take anything away from them just because they happened to be attractive.
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bballfan2005
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| Posted: 08/19/11 1:26 pm ::: |
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| jap wrote: |
| As much as I like Maya, she cannot handle the rock like even CP3, much less your typical guard. Despite her athletics, that lack places limitations on her ability to take players off the dribble or create her own shot. |
Back in March, it was psheehy who said that Candace Parker was better than Maya Moore (comparing their senior years in college based on his metrics--which I can't explain). Needless to say, that didn't settle well with the pro-UConn types on here. Now, I really don't think it's up for debate anymore.
So wherever you are, Patrick (hope you're okay), I'd like to give you your props on that call.
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jap
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| Posted: 08/19/11 1:36 pm ::: |
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| bballfan2005 wrote: |
| jap wrote: |
| As much as I like Maya, she cannot handle the rock like even CP3, much less your typical guard. Despite her athletics, that lack places limitations on her ability to take players off the dribble or create her own shot. |
Back in March, it was psheehy who said that Candace Parker was better than Maya Moore (comparing their senior years in college based on his metrics--which I can't explain). Needless to say, that didn't settle well with the pro-UConn types on here. Now, I really don't think it's up for debate anymore. |
Even though I saw members here declaring Maya to be better than Ace, I was nonetheless surprised it was even considered a debatable issue. The dominance that Maya showed over collegiates simply will not translate very well to the pros, unless somehow she manages to improve her handle.
No, Candace is not a five position player at the pro level, but she plays the other positions well enough that she often creates great mismatches when she faces front court players who lack her quickness and sheer athleticism. Candace's rookie year was the best rookie year in WNBA history, with honorable mention to quiet Tina Charles. The same certainly cannot be said about Maya's first pro year.
I wanted Maya for the Sparks for her skill set: her turbo quick release and her defensive efforts, but I never imagined her to replace Ace as the top gun.
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Diana3Taurasi
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| Posted: 08/19/11 1:59 pm ::: |
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| bballfan2005 wrote: |
| jap wrote: |
| As much as I like Maya, she cannot handle the rock like even CP3, much less your typical guard. Despite her athletics, that lack places limitations on her ability to take players off the dribble or create her own shot. |
Back in March, it was psheehy who said that Candace Parker was better than Maya Moore (comparing their senior years in college based on his metrics--which I can't explain). Needless to say, that didn't settle well with the pro-UConn types on here. Now, I really don't think it's up for debate anymore.
So wherever you are, Patrick (hope you're okay), I'd like to give you your props on that call. |
You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that Candace's game translates to the pros much better than Maya's game does. My bro was a big Maya fan in college and he always said that she's going to end up being the best player to ever play. I've only watched a handful of UCONN games, but I immediately knew that Tina was going to be a better player than Maya and that UCONN wasn't going to win a championship being led by Maya. I was also surprised by Diana saying that Maya will go down as the GOAT by the time she retires. I do think Maya has superstar potential, but I definitely don't think she has GOAT potential. |
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