RebKell's Junkie Boards

[cometsfan05]

people for the last time those poor people in louisiana are not got damn refugees


a refugee is is an exile who flees from another contry, they did not they are americans they pay taxes just like everyone else and the media is not helping with the portrayl of these poor black people it seems like if a white person stole something they found it but if a black person is seen with something oh they looters lets get them it's ashame that my people meaning my black brother's and sisters were left there to die but that dumb governor of louisiana will get hers you basically left them people there to die I mean do you honestly think they would have stayed if they had the money and transportation to do so I dont think so

So I just wanted to say they are not fuckin refugees they are americans who need all the help and support they can get right now

[Luuuc]

[cometsfan05]

[sambista]

i hear what you're saying, cometsfan, and i respect your opinion. i could refer to this definition of the word:

ref·u·gee (rĕf'yʊ-jē') n.

One who flees in search of refuge, as in times of war, political oppression, or religious persecution.

[French réfugié, from past participle of réfugier, to take refuge, from Old French, from refuge, refuge. See refuge.]


but i'm personally using this word in the connotative sense, to reflect my anger at the way my people are being treated. they are being treated as refugees. as if they are not americans worthy of the highest level of attention, aid and relief.

if this offends you on a level that you find intolerable, i won't use it again. but i wanted to explain why i was using it.

_________________
no justice, no peace.

[cometsfan05]

I am so sorry I took it the wrong way totally I apologize I understand that this is hurting and dissapointing alot of people regardless or race color and gender it's just ashame and I think it hurts me more cause I am black and I want something done better than the way it was handled I respect your opinion and you

[sambista]

luuuc makes a good point, and i'm trying to see your point, too, cometsfan. i know people could rip my post, too, by arguing there are also white people in the flood zone. but we know what this is really about. it's about race and class and economics. still, doesn't make what luuuc has said untrue. in fact, i was flashing on the huge brasilian community (and some brasilians who live here in the u.s. know that they might not be "black" in brasil, but they sure as hell are here!). i just picked up a couple of brasilian papers yesterday, struggling to read what i could.

bottom line, it still comes down to race and class and economics. it is the reality of the united states. indeed, most of the world.

_________________
no justice, no peace.

[Luuuc]

Refugee = person seeking refuge. Is that not what is happening here?

Ohhhhh, snap! Cometsfan is offended by having their fellow Americans compared to the regular types of refugees you see, who are just worthless Africans, Asians, and so on... I get it... my bad.

_________________
Thanks for calling. I wait all night for calls like these.

[sambista]

i think a lot of us are stressed. i'm in the news business, and i've not had much sleep this week, not only working day hours and night hours but having this story so in my face nonstop that now it has kind of possessed me. even when i've gone to bed, i've left the tv on so i wouldn't miss anything. i called a colleague this morning, said i couldn't let this story go. she said, "you need to let it go" and advised me to get out of the house. that was two hours ago, and i'm still trying. so, apologies, and i'm gonna (try to) sign off for now.

_________________
no justice, no peace.

[Slovydal]

Lord Luuuc has spoken!

[cometsfan05]

[Luuuc]

Guess I put my foot in it, huh.

All I was trying to say is that a 'refugee' does not necessarily belong to any particular racial or economic category, it is just someone who needs help getting out of a situation.
IMO, any connotations you put on that word are due to your own prejudices.

I honestly didn't mean to come off as a "lord" of any sort

_________________
Thanks for calling. I wait all night for calls like these.

[pilight]

[thatGAgirl]

[BBallFanCT729]

The people displaced from this hurricane are refugees in my opinion. While they may not be taking refuge from religious or political persecution in a foreign country, they are taking refuge from the fact that they have nothing and that there are limited supplies/shelter and disease-ridden water everywhere that they have to wade through.

They are refugees at this point. They are seeking refuge from the harsh reality of having *nothing* left, except for their lives. They need food, water, shelter, somewhere to get clean, medicince, etc...that makes them no different than someone coming here to seek refuge from their home country. The people impacted by this hurricane need help, and a lot of it.

[Slovydal]

Luuuc was absolutely right. A bit harsh - but right.
The people fleeing N.O. are by definition refugees. Americans are so used to refugee meaning, "those poor people from far away that need our help" it's no wonder there was confusion as to what the term meant.

[mikejofm]

PEACE! They are displaced persons. They are our sisters and brothers, just like the displaced persons in Afaganastan and Iraq and Sudan and many other African and South American countries.

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JOY and PEACE, mike

[Keegan]

This thread is even more pointless than the threads INTENDED to be fluff. Of all the things to discuss about New Orleans, people are worrying about the use of the word "refugee". Yeah, you have your priorities straight.

_________________
Beware of snarky monotremes...

[herrade]

[Keegan]

I subscribe to Luuuc's POV

[herrade]

two articles discussing jackson and others' comments re the refugee question:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nationworld/bal-te.refugees05sep05,1,7837078.story?coll=bal-news-nation

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,16494573%255E1702,00.html

_________________
A single act of carelessness leads to the eternal loss of beauty.

[Keegan]

Thanks - interesting reading.

To me though, it sounds like people from "developed" countries claiming that they can't have/be refugees because they're somehow inherently superior to the countries they perceive to have "real" refugees. I can understand their POV but I don't attach any baggage to the term "refugee" (and I'm probably in the minority) and I think they're fussing over nothing.

_________________
Beware of snarky monotremes...

[smenko]

Personally, Keegan, I believe it is the feeling of the evacuees who probably feel they should have the right to be called whatever they want or don't want. They do not wish to be called refugees. Political a statement as that may be. Perception has granted them the right to feel negative about the connotation. I, for one, believe that evacuees fit the description of their predictament just fine.

[pilight]

It's a political semantic game. Their needs are unchanged regardless of the terminology.

_________________
I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home

[womens_hoops]

i sort of come down on the pilight/keegan side of this one.

Folks and the Baltimore Sun quoted one dictionary definition. But other dictionary definitions (starting with the OED) are broader, and would apply to this situation. Dictionary definitions are, as herrade says, not the end of the debate. But they do reflect the way people use words, and at least some of the time when people use the word, they mean something other than a victim of political oppression.

"Evacuee" is a fine alternative. But it actually sounds less serious than "refugee." I would think that, if we're trying to help these folks, we need to make this sound as serious as possible to impress on political leaders and everyone else how important it is to act.

Jessee Jackson said "To see them as refugees is to see them as other than Americans." I really don't see why that follows. Nor do I really agree with the herrade's descriptive claim that the use of the term, in a foulcauldian constructionist sense, destabilizes their citizenship.

I think the central point can be stated more simply, less esoterically.

The government (and society, and the media, or whatever you want to say) hasn't responded well enough or quickly enough. It hasn't treated the victims of this tragedy with the care they deserve. You can say that the poor treatment suggests that the government views them as less than full citizens...

... but more fundamentally, you can just say that the government views them as less than full humans. Calling them "refugees" as opposed to "evacuees," if it really has any significance, is really the least of the worries.

[herrade]