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readyAIMfire53



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PostPosted: 01/13/05 9:42 pm    ::: POY stats to date Reply Reply with quote

POY candidates
TEAM Rec Pts Rebs FG% Ast A/TO Stl Blk
Currie Duke 15-1 17.7 7.7 0.454 3.31 1.26 2.62 0.56
Augustus LSU 14-1 20.5 4.7 0.565 2.33 1.13 2.07 0.67
Batteast ND 13-3 18.4 6.8 0.451 3.13 1.52 1.37 1.13
McCarville Minn 13-2 16.1 10.2 0.519 4.23 1.25 2.46 2.54
Irvin TCU 11-5 21.9 13.1 0.483 2.31 0.64 2.31 4.0
Wecker K.St. 11-3 21.1 9.5 0.495 3.27 1.29 2.18 0.36


It hardly looks like time to coronate Augustus, to me! Yes, you've got to throw in Strength of Schedule, which I think boosts Currie, Augustus and Batteast a little, or at least modifies Irvin's incredible numbers so far.

If anybody wants to add more players, be my guest. This looks like a pretty good top 6 to me, with no clear leader. In comparing Augustus and Currie, their points and rebounds cancel each other out, then Seimone's FG% vs Monique's higher assists, A/TO ratio, and steals.

Anybody else want to have a go at it?

~rAf



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pilight



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PostPosted: 01/13/05 9:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I might throw in Jessica Davenport or Alesha Robertson.

Stats only tell part of the story, of course.



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BBallFanCT729



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PostPosted: 01/13/05 10:13 pm    ::: Re: POY stats to date Reply Reply with quote

Honestly, I think that the POY Award should go to either Seimone Augustus, Monique Currie, or Sandora Irvin. Those three players stand out to me. All three of them lead their team, and make the plays they need to make in order to put their team in position to win.

Seimone is just so smooth and can beat you in a variety ways on offense. She is definitely a top player in the nation, and when she goes one-on-one, she is one of the most difficult players to stop. That said, Seimone has the benefit of playing on a team with a nice collection of players (Temeka Johnson, Sylvia Fowles, Tillie Willis, etc).

Monique Currie is wonderful on both ends of the floor. One of my favorite players in the country. Like Seimone, she can beat you in a variety of ways on offense. She is such a passionate player, on both ends of the floor, and is always in the position to make the plays Duke needs in order to win. Against Tennessee, she just simply took over down the stretch in order to lead Duke to the win. She is a very complete player, and is a leader for the #1 team in the country. Monique also has a nice supporting cast (Bales, Williams, Smith, Foley, Kurz, Black, etc.). The fact that she is on the #1 team in the country also helps her.

Sandora Irvin is great (if Phoenix doesn't get McCarville, Currie, or trade...I would really like her to be on the Mercury...my favorite player in the country). Sandora is a double-double machine, and is very difficult to guard in the post. What makes her unique is that she also has a fairly decent three-point shot to compliment her low post game. While her team isn't the elite of the elite, they do have nice wins over Michigan St., Georgia, UCLA, and Oklahoma. She is a do-all type of player for TCU. She has a great shot-blocking ability, and can also get into the passing lanes in the post. She is a great player on both ends of the floor, and her stats represent that. Her A/TO ratio isn't the best, as she sometimes tends to do too much. She is definitely a premiere player in this country, and now that I think about it, I think I would put her as first team All-American (watch as people gasp knowing I put her above Janel McCarville).

Another player to watch out for is Sophia Young. She is the leading scorer, rebounder, and shot blocker on a Baylor team that is one of the best in the nation (despite it's puzzling loss to Nebraska). Her size may hurt her in the WNBA, but her stats prove that she is a player to keep an eye on: 17.9 ppg, 9.9 rpg, 2.2 spg, 2.1 apg, and 1.2 bpg. She is shooting 50.2% on FGs.

Other Players To Watch:

Jessica Davenport (Ohio St.)
Alesha Robertson (Texas Tech)
Candice Wiggins (Stanford)~Yes, I know she's a freshman.


Keegan



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PostPosted: 01/13/05 11:13 pm    ::: Re: POY stats to date Reply Reply with quote

Tiffany Jackson was in the running. Till Texas went down the drain anyways.

Can Sophia Young handle?
BBallFanCT729



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PostPosted: 01/13/05 11:46 pm    ::: Re: POY stats to date Reply Reply with quote

Sophia Young has 30 assists and 25 turnovers on the season, good for a 1.2 A/TO ratio.

A little more info on Sophia: http://baylorbears.collegesports.com/sports/w-baskbl/mtt/young_sophia00.html


readyAIMfire53



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PostPosted: 01/14/05 4:59 am    ::: Re: POY stats to date Reply Reply with quote

"Honestly, I think that the POY Award should go to either Seimone Augustus, Monique Currie, or Sandora Irvin. Those three players stand out to me. All three of them lead their team, and make the plays they need to make in order to put their team in position to win. "

Yes, this is exactly the point. I completely agree that Augustus is a great player, along with Currie and Irvin, followed by the others mentioned in this thread. I haven't seen Irvin play this year against top competition so I don't know what this season's numbers really mean about just how good she is. I get to see Currie in person a lot and I've seen Augustus on TV a couple of times now.

Augustus has a deadly pull up jumper that is the smoothest since Mique. However, her rebounding and other stats are not that impressive. Currie is an excellent rebounder and has a solid all around game, especially in the big games. Augustus can be characterized as "smooth" while Currie is "explosive". Basically, I haven't seen Augustus take over on defense, while Currie does exactly that. When Mo senses that Duke needs a run, she'll force a couple of turnovers and score on the runout (or assist a teammate in doing so). Or if the team gets a shot off, she'll power in for the rebound "one and done". Mo has a touch of flair and there are some rebounds that are "statement rebounds" in which she comes from nowhere and SNATCHES the rebound in such a way that is demoralizing to the other team.

~rAf



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BBallFanCT729



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PostPosted: 01/14/05 12:32 pm    ::: Re: POY stats to date Reply Reply with quote

Great post rAf. As I said above, Seimone, Monique, and Sandora stand out. I think that Sandora and Monique are most deserving of it at this point.

Here are some of Sandora's stats from games against top teams:

UCLA: 8 points, 13 rebounds, 8 turnovers, 1 block
Georgia: 28 points, 15 rebounds, and 8 blocks
Michigan St.: 23 points, 17 rebounds, 6 assists, 2 blocks & 2 steals
Oklahoma: 32 points, 18 rebounds, 3 blocks, and 3 assists
Tennessee: 21 points, 16 rebounds, 7 blocks, and 6 turnovers


Gaucho Don



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PostPosted: 01/14/05 12:58 pm    ::: Re: POY stats to date Reply Reply with quote

I would add Kristen Mann, with her stats, but with UCSB's dismal performance so far this year it'd be an extremely tough argument to win... I actually think UCSB is suffering from the same problem that Duke did last year (only the mid-major version of it?)... Kristen Mann is so much better than the rest of the team that everyone wants to just give her the ball and let her do her thing. We end up with just one scoring option even if others are actually capable. There are signs that the other players are getting the message that Kristen needs help, but we won't really know until March since we won't see too much real competition until then.


KatValeska



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PostPosted: 01/15/05 12:10 am    ::: Re: POY stats to date Reply Reply with quote

I know nobody gives a dang about a lil' ol team like the St. Francis Red Flash, but senior center Beth Swink's numbers are as good - if not better than the other players mentioned here. No. 2 leading scorer in the nation, and the Red Flash played a pretty good non-con schedule - at Vanderbilt, Virginia, Virginia Tech and Kentucky.

She's been among the national leaders in scoring, FG% and rebounds the past three seasons. And she plays her best against the big schools - just ask a Purdue fan.

It's a disgrace she doesn't get the credit she deserves.


readyAIMfire53



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PostPosted: 01/16/05 2:40 pm    ::: Re: POY stats to date Reply Reply with quote

ProfessorChaos06 wrote:
I know nobody gives a dang about a lil' ol team like the St. Francis Red Flash, but senior center Beth Swink's numbers are as good - if not better than the other players mentioned here. No. 2 leading scorer in the nation, and the Red Flash played a pretty good non-con schedule - at Vanderbilt, Virginia, Virginia Tech and Kentucky.

She's been among the national leaders in scoring, FG% and rebounds the past three seasons. And she plays her best against the big schools - just ask a Purdue fan.

It's a disgrace she doesn't get the credit she deserves.


Hey PC: Great contribution! Since I get to see one of the best in person, that's who I'm gonna talk about. But I love to hear about other great players who don't get the airtime such as Swink. Please help keep the rest of us up-to-date on the exploits of the "lesser known" greats of the league.

On another note, is WV's Yolanda Paige a senior? I'm quite certain the WNBA scouts have made lots of trips to watch her play. I'm curious as to who will get picked up first between Paige and Temeka Johnson from LSU. Heaven knows the WNBA could benefit from a few more really good point guards coming in.

~rAf



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BBallFanCT729



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PostPosted: 01/16/05 5:25 pm    ::: Re: POY stats to date Reply Reply with quote

Yolanda Paige is a senior at WVU.

Update on Sandora Irvin:

In today's game against UAB (a win), she had:

20 points, 18 rebounds, 16 blocks, 6 assists, and 5 steals.


Keegan



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PostPosted: 01/16/05 8:03 pm    ::: Re: POY stats to date Reply Reply with quote

Temeka Johnson is 5'2" and shooting range only extends to about 15 feet consistently. I think she's a "good in college, dubious in the WNBA" prospect.

I have little idea about Yolanda Paige but her numbers seem to be racked up against cupcakes and she doesn't seem to have a three point shot.
KatValeska



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PostPosted: 01/17/05 8:32 am    ::: Re: POY stats to date Reply Reply with quote

rAf,

*sigh*

I have to admit my track record of deciding which college players' success in college ball wil translate into WNBA sucess is not very good.

Honestly, I'm not sure where Paige fits in in the W. I follow the pros, but not at all like I follow college ball. As you know, I thought the world of Jess Brungo when she was at PSU, but I wouldn't have dreamed she'd have stuck on a WNBA roster - or even have received a look.

I reckon Paige will be drafted and stick. And while I agree with Keegan about her lack of a 3-point shot, I think it's silly to suggest that a player who was sixth in the nation last year in assists while playing in the Big East did so against "cupcakes". I was impressed w/ what I saw from Yolanda against Ohio Stae in the NCAA first-round last year as well - and again, I don't consider OSU to be a cupcake either.

BTW Keegan, regarding Sinead O'Connor - one of my more recent musical fascinations. While I like the remake of the Prince tune, it's "Last Day of Our Acquaintance" that nails me to the floor. That is truly one of most powerful, soulful vocal performances I have ever heard - and the words safely remove scar tissue.


dtsnms



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PostPosted: 01/17/05 9:19 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
As you know, I thought the world of Jess Brungo when she was at PSU, but I wouldn't have dreamed she'd have stuck on a WNBA roster - or even have received a look.


we Sun fans are still surprised too


pilight



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PostPosted: 01/17/05 1:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Yolanda Paige is only 5'6, taller than Johnson but still short for a WNBA PG. Game-wise, she's reminiscent of Helen Darling at Penn State more than anyone else I can think of.



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BBallFanCT729



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PostPosted: 01/17/05 1:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The 16 blocks by Sandora Irvin yesterday set a new record for blocks in a single game in Division 1.

Now, if only Sandora had listened to her uncle, who told her to go to UConn. I'm kidding, of course. She's obviously happy at TCU.


mercfan3



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PostPosted: 01/17/05 7:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

BBallFanCT729 wrote:
The 16 blocks by Sandora Irvin yesterday set a new record for blocks in a single game in Division 1.

Now, if only Sandora had listened to her uncle, who told her to go to UConn. I'm kidding, of course. She's obviously happy at TCU.


Jeez, it looks like Charde wants to make a run at POY Very Happy Really though, If Charde is this good, I wonder what Parker is gonna be like. ( I don't know if I wanna see her play against Uconn though..)


BBallFanCT729



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PostPosted: 01/17/05 9:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Charde thrives when she is starting...which she might be doing for the rest of her career. Today, as opposed to her other high-scoring games, she didn't have the happy feet, which I was happy to see.

Charde could *maybe* be NFOY. It should be an interesting race between Matee, Charde, Erlana, Crystal, Candice, Wanisha, and Tasha.

I maintain, the NPOY award is between:

Seimone
Monique
Sandora

Monique & Sandora are the favorites in my opinion.


mercfan3



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PostPosted: 01/18/05 1:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

BBallFanCT729 wrote:
Charde thrives when she is starting...which she might be doing for the rest of her career. Today, as opposed to her other high-scoring games, she didn't have the happy feet, which I was happy to see.

Charde could *maybe* be NFOY. It should be an interesting race between Matee, Charde, Erlana, Crystal, Candice, Wanisha, and Tasha.

I maintain, the NPOY award is between:

Seimone
Monique
Sandora

Monique & Sandora are the favorites in my opinion.


LOL, I was joking. MY guess is Seimone is going to get it. When she is everyone's most definite pick in the begining of the year, someone else is giong to have to play a lot better than her in order to take the award from her.

I hope I'm wrong, but I think Houston started too late, but then again, if she averages 20 points a game for the rest of the season it would be kind of hard not to give it too her.


KatValeska



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PostPosted: 01/18/05 3:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

"I hope I'm wrong, but I think Houston started too late, but then again, if she averages 20 points a game for the rest of the season it would be kind of hard not to give it too her."

There are over a dozen players averaging more than 20 points per game. And they've been doing so for two months now.

Not meaning to rain on anyone's parade, but for as many minutes as Houston missed in the first half of the season, it would be a travesty if she were to even be considered for POY.


readyAIMfire53



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PostPosted: 01/18/05 7:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

"I maintain, the NPOY award is between:

Seimone
Monique
Sandora

Monique & Sandora are the favorites in my opinion."

So why are ALL the media annointing Seimone already? Honestly, I just don't see it. Her defense is only slightly above average and her rebounding is only average at best. Don't get me wrong, she's got a remarkable offensive game and yes, she IS smoooooth. But both Monique and Sandora are great on both ends of the floor. Monique is doing it against the top teams in the country, while Sandora is busting out the top with her huge numbers against so-so competition. This might be a year where the POY awards get split up and divvied around to all the best players.

~rAf



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GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 01/19/05 2:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The media have anointed Augustus since before the season began, and that is probably that. The inertial momentum of this media favoritism will probably carry her through to the POY, unless something dramatically bad happens to Augustus or something dramatically great happens to someone else.

It shouldn't be so. Neither should cold stats be the determinant.

I love Augustus, and have written glowingly of her midrange game. But I think Monique Currie is a slightly better POY candidate.

Why? Because Currie has a very reasonable 3pt shot, whereas Augustus has none. Also, I think Currie is the somewhat better and faster slasher. Currie's shooting % is lower than Augustus' at least in part because a greater percentage of her shots are higher risk shots--i.e., 3's and drives in traffic. Curry also seems to project more of an infectious warrior ("crush 'em") attitude.

These are also reasons why Currie may be more valuable as a WNBA pick. It is questionable whether Augustus can play any guard position or an inside big position. She would seem to be limited solely to a wing/small forward role, where she no doubt will be superb as a pro. Currie, it seems, could credibly play guard postions in addition to wing/small forward.

Finally, I think is is a shame that these POY awards are purportedly given only on the basis of regular season play. It seems to me that, all other things being equal, a player who carries her team deep into tournament play is more valuable than a player who fails to do so. What "valuableness" is more valuable than the value exhibited under the the most intense competitive pressure--namely, tournament play.


mercfan3



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PostPosted: 01/19/05 1:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ProfessorChaos06 wrote:
"I hope I'm wrong, but I think Houston started too late, but then again, if she averages 20 points a game for the rest of the season it would be kind of hard not to give it too her."

There are over a dozen players averaging more than 20 points per game. And they've been doing so for two months now.

Not meaning to rain on anyone's parade, but for as many minutes as Houston missed in the first half of the season, it would be a travesty if she were to even be considered for POY.


Sorry again for being unclear, I was talking about freshman. How many freshman, in a major program (top 15) are averaging 20 points. (Not even Charde, but I bet she will.) Not many, is my guess. I don't think Charde is in the running for POY, I was joking. I hope, by the end of the year, she will be the leading canidate for FOY.


mercfan3



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PostPosted: 01/19/05 1:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ProfessorChaos06 wrote:
"I hope I'm wrong, but I think Houston started too late, but then again, if she averages 20 points a game for the rest of the season it would be kind of hard not to give it too her."

There are over a dozen players averaging more than 20 points per game. And they've been doing so for two months now.

Not meaning to rain on anyone's parade, but for as many minutes as Houston missed in the first half of the season, it would be a travesty if she were to even be considered for POY.


Sorry again for being unclear, I was talking about freshman. How many freshman, in a major program (top 15) are averaging 20 points. (Not even Charde, but I bet she will.) Not many, is my guess. I don't think Charde is in the running for POY, I was joking. I hope, by the end of the year, she will be the leading canidate for FOY.


mercfan3



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PostPosted: 01/19/05 1:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ProfessorChaos06 wrote:
"I hope I'm wrong, but I think Houston started too late, but then again, if she averages 20 points a game for the rest of the season it would be kind of hard not to give it too her."

There are over a dozen players averaging more than 20 points per game. And they've been doing so for two months now.

Not meaning to rain on anyone's parade, but for as many minutes as Houston missed in the first half of the season, it would be a travesty if she were to even be considered for POY.


Sorry again for being unclear, I was talking about freshman. How many freshman, in a major program (top 15) are averaging 20 points. (Not even Charde, but I bet she will.) Not many, is my guess. I don't think Charde is in the running for POY, I was joking. I hope, by the end of the year, she will be the leading canidate for FOY.


BBallFanCT729



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PostPosted: 01/19/05 3:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

readyAIMfire53 wrote:
Monique is doing it against the top teams in the country, while Sandora is busting out the top with her huge numbers against so-so competition.


RPI & SOS for Duke & TCU

Duke:
RPI~#3
SOS~#48

TCU:
RPI~#24
SOS~#41

TCU is actually playing a tougher schedule than Duke this year, but Duke definitely has the edge in RPI (one loss to TCU's five). TCU's five losses to USC (#27/#39), Arkansas St. (#99/#43), Tennessee (#1/#1), Utah (#38/#75), and Miami (#67,#17) have hurt them.

Still, both Monique Currie and Sandora Irvin have had great seasons. If it were me, I think I would give the award to both of them.


CamrnCrz1974



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PostPosted: 01/19/05 3:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

What site are you using?

Duke:
#4 RPI
#23 SOS

TCU:
#26 RPI
#28 SOS

http://www.collegerpi.com/women/05/rpi.html


KatValeska



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PostPosted: 01/19/05 5:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hmm. Wonder what it means when the national media starts raving about one of my diamonds in the rough? Maybe I'm just not needed anymore Crying or Very sad

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/womensbasketball/2005-01-18-notes_x.htm

OTOH, I am so thrilled to see her getting the deserved recogntion.

Go Beth!!!


pilight



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PostPosted: 01/19/05 5:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I thought you were part of the national media. Wink



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PostPosted: 01/19/05 5:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
What site are you using?

Duke:
#4 RPI
#23 SOS

TCU:
#26 RPI
#28 SOS

http://www.collegerpi.com/women/05/rpi.html


Two different sites have TCU's SOS better than Duke's by 7/8 places. Real Time RPI has Duke at #42 SOS and TCU at #34 SOS. WBCA's RPI has Duke at #48 SOS and TCU at #41 SOS.

Regardless, their schedules aren't that far off to be saying that Duke is playing the top teams in the country while TCU is playing average competition.


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PostPosted: 01/19/05 11:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Freshmen averaging close to 20 points? Candace Wiggins? I would love to see a team of Wiggins, Houston, Fowles, Wiley-Gatewood and Wanisha Smith.



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BBallFanCT729



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PostPosted: 01/20/05 12:11 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Alepp03 wrote:
Freshmen averaging close to 20 points? Candace Wiggins? I would love to see a team of Wiggins, Houston, Fowles, Wiley-Gatewood and Wanisha Smith.


Humphrey, Hornbuckle, Allen, Langhorne, and Larkins wouldn't be that bad either.


Keegan



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PostPosted: 01/20/05 12:29 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

BBallFanCT729 wrote:
Alepp03 wrote:
Freshmen averaging close to 20 points? Candace Wiggins? I would love to see a team of Wiggins, Houston, Fowles, Wiley-Gatewood and Wanisha Smith.


Humphrey, Hornbuckle, Allen, Langhorne, and Larkins wouldn't be that bad either.


Only four more years... Wink
Alepp03



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PostPosted: 01/20/05 12:29 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
Alepp03 wrote:
Freshmen averaging close to 20 points? Candace Wiggins? I would love to see a team of Wiggins, Houston, Fowles, Wiley-Gatewood and Wanisha Smith.


Humphrey, Hornbuckle, Allen, Langhorne, and Larkins wouldn't be that bad either.


Jolene Anderson could be the first person off the bench for either team.



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PostPosted: 01/30/05 9:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

POY candidates - Stats updated - 1/29/05


Rec Pts Rebs FG% Asst TO ratio Steals Blocks
Currie 19-2 18.5 7.9 0.470 3.33 1.207 2.48 0.57
Augustus 18-1 20.0 4.8 0.565 2.26 1.265 1.74 0.53
Batteast 17-3 18.6 6.9 0.460 2.95 1.439 1.45 1.35
McCarville 16-3 15.6 10.2 0.517 4.06 1.211 2.71 2.47
Irvin 14-6 20.9 12.7 0.460 2.25 .652 2.35 4.55
Wecker 16-3 21.3 9.6 0.484 3.06 1.195 2.25 0.50

The race looks to be tightening up even more. This is a fun year to compare the best players in the game. Which stat categories do you value more? How does Strength of Schedule impact the stats. How do the intangible gifts of each player affect them being considered THE best?

And, I agree that Jessica Davenport and Tiffany Jackson should be in the discussion, so if anyone wants to post their stats, feel free to do so!

I'd LOVE to see a special on these 8 players. Monique continues to get less than her fair share of media attention. Are people afraid to notice another Duke player the year after Alana graduates? Monique has patiently waited her turn, playing her role on last year's team and now showing all what she can do.

~rAf



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PostPosted: 01/31/05 3:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Some people like stats, but in college ball the level of competition is so highly variable as to make direct comparison almost useless. How about we just check results against ranked opponents:

Augustus. 7 games against ranked opponents. Average 23 points, 6.3 rebounds, 2.3 assists, 1.1 steals, 0.7 blocks, 2.3 TOs, .515 FG%. Team is 6-1 in those games.

Batteast. 7 games against ranked opponents. Average 18.6 points, 6.1 rebounds, 3.0 assists, 1.0 steals, 1.7 blocks, 3.0 TOs, FG% .357. Team is 5-2 in those games.

Currie. 8 games against ranked opponents. Average 20.0 points, 8.5 rebounds, 3.1 assists, 2.6 steals, 0.4 blocks, 3.5 TOs, FG% .387. Team is 6-2 in those games.

Irvin. 3 games against ranked opponents. Average 24.7 points, 16.0 rebounds, 2.7 assists, 0.7 steals, 5.0 blocks, 3.7 TOs, FG% .431. Team is 2-1 in those games.

McCarville. 4 games against ranked opponents. Average 16.8 points, 11.3 rebounds, 3.3 assists, 2.8 steals, 3.3 blocks, 3.5 TOs, FG% .452. Team is 2-2 in those games.

Wecker. 4 games against ranked opponents. Average 19.5 points, 7.8 rebounds, 2.0 assists, 2.0 steals, 1.5 blocks, 3.3 TOs, FG% .384. Team is 2-2 in those games.

I would rate Augustus & Irvin as the top contenders based on those numbers. But they're just numbers...



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