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bballfan2005
Joined: 22 Aug 2005
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 Posted: 11/21/09 9:48 am ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| Would they put Wiggins back on the bench or try her out at the point? |
I'd say try her at the point again and see if she can use her size advantage to guard PGs.
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Youth Coach
Joined: 23 Mar 2008
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| Posted: 11/21/09 10:52 am ::: |
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Do you get the feeling of it just doesn't look good?
Houston, Detroit, Sacramento, trouble with Atlanta.... |
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abontorab9
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
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| Posted: 11/21/09 10:55 am ::: |
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| Youth Coach wrote: |
Do you get the feeling of it just doesn't look good?
Houston, Detroit, Sacramento, trouble with Atlanta.... |
It doesn't look good for teams with awful attendance. The teams you mentioned above had the worst attendance in the league in past years (aside from Chicago).
It was no surprise to me that Houston folded. That Detroit folded. That Sacramento folded.
Not a surprise at all. Sure, I was shocked simply because you never want that to happen. But I had been expecting those teams to fold eventually, assuming they didn't get their acts together, which they didn't.
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MuneravenMN
Champion Tipster
Joined: 01 Jun 2008
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| Posted: 11/21/09 11:00 am ::: Re: WNBA Future |
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| BobScoutingReport wrote: |
The question remains how few teams will the league be willing to operate with? My guess is 10 would be ok and 8 the absolute minimum.
Regardless of the number for next year, most NBA owners have concluded the WNBA is a loser and only David Stern's ego might prevent the league from folding entirely. A quick look at the teams:
Seattle - not drawing as well as advertised but still 4000+ - ok for now with private ownership
LA - private ownership with good arena deal & sponsor this past year; poor sports town makes it difficult
PHX - saved by LifeLock; had a great year yet fan support was mediocre; had to give away massive tickets to fill place for game 5; ok so long as LifeLock is on scene, otherwise beware!!
San Antonio - supposedly the Stars did ok at gate, at least enough to keep things going as the arena likes the 17 dates
Minn - a franchise drawing poorly; if the franchise is cursed, Taylor will abandon ship on the verge of winning the title; eventually this team will fold unless gate improves
Sacramento - ???? I wonder when Ms. Donna got wind of this. Hopefully, she knew soon after season's end. The Maloofs give the impression that they just walked making no attempt to find a new owner and perhaps not giving the league time to find one.
Tulsa - new, let's give it two years anyway
CT - loaded financially; the Sun give the casino publicity and this club is probably well managed with costs kept down by owning the arena; if they pack it in, forget the league
NY - attendance continues to be much less than in the early days of the league; team poorly managed but provides summer MSG dates; sadly most critical franchise in league is also one of the most poorly run
Wash - it sounds like they are in for the long haul and are giving tickets away again
ATL - new owner probably hoping to use business contacts to survive with increased corporate sponsorship; team has little chance of making it on ticket sales alone; probably good for a couple of years regardless of uphill struggle
Indy - owner is going to expect increased attendance which may or may not happen; Indiana is a BB hotbed; if ownership wants out hopefully they will look for a local buyer next year rather than just dumpimg the franchise as was the case in Detroit
CHI - moving to new arena hoping to attract more fans to make up for increased arena costs; could be the first non-NBA casualty;
attendance at UIC was terribly low.
So are there 8 in this bunch that will still be in the league in 2012?
Which seem the safest franchises? |
If you are going to make a list like this maybe you should think it through. Regarding Minnesota: They are cursed? LOL, now there's some crack sports analysis! Here is a team that has had years and years of major suckage due to mostly bad front office decisons. They weren't great last year, either, and yet their attendance figures were up a little (as a STH I was there and, while I don't believe the actual numbers, I do believe there were more people). The Lynx owner and his wife come to every game and sit next to the Lynx bench, not up in some box. AND...Minnesota has a long and honorable history of bandwagon-jumping. If they Lynx start to actually contend, more people will come.
Look what happened in DC...the Mystics emerged from years of being awful and --tada-- fans showed up.
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StevenHW
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
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Location: Sacramento, California
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ChicagoAnnie
Joined: 04 Sep 2009
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Location: St. Paul, MN
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| Posted: 11/21/09 11:40 am ::: |
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| Fuzzball Records wrote: |
| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
| Fuzzball Records wrote: |
| Anyone who puts their faith in the word of David Stern is a fool. |
If it weren't for David Stern, there would be no WNBA. |
That was 12 years ago. The NBA owners are now dumping their W franchises, you think Stern is gonna stand in their way?
Ask the people out in Seattle if you can trust David Stern. |
Well Stern cant force a teamowner to continue to bleed money, especially when their nba teams are struggling too.
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ChicagoAnnie
Joined: 04 Sep 2009
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uncommonclay
Joined: 14 May 2008
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Location: the planet
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| Posted: 11/21/09 12:30 pm ::: |
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Is WNBA's Monarchs bound for Oakland?
| Quote: |
An Oakland councilwoman said Friday talks are under way with WNBA officials to relocate the Sacramento Monarchs to Oracle Arena.
"They are very serious about this," said Councilwoman Rebecca Kaplan, who has been pushing the idea to have a team based in Oakland.
Greg Jamison, CEO of Silicon Valley Sports & Entertainment that operates the Sharks and HP Pavilion, issued a statement saying he hasn't had discussions with WNBA officials to bring a team to San Jose. |
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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| Posted: 11/21/09 12:37 pm ::: |
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| uncommonclay wrote: |
Is WNBA's Monarchs bound for Oakland?
| Quote: |
An Oakland councilwoman said Friday talks are under way with WNBA officials to relocate the Sacramento Monarchs to Oracle Arena.
"They are very serious about this," said Councilwoman Rebecca Kaplan, who has been pushing the idea to have a team based in Oakland.
Greg Jamison, CEO of Silicon Valley Sports & Entertainment that operates the Sharks and HP Pavilion, issued a statement saying he hasn't had discussions with WNBA officials to bring a team to San Jose. |
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Crossing pagan fingers and saying theist prayers. At this late date, if they can actually pull it off it will be a miracle.
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Slovydal
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
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DTP
Joined: 24 Dec 2005
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| Posted: 11/21/09 1:26 pm ::: Re: WNBA Future |
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| nickv1025 wrote: |
| BobScoutingReport wrote: |
Nick, I think you summerized it beaufifully.
Right now, Ms. Donna may have wished she bolted for the LPGA as the road ahead appears to be bumpy at best.
The problem with non-NBA ownership is being certain the owners can stomach the losses that go with WNBA teams. From what I have heard, the league is lucky if 25% of the franchises finish in the black in any year.
Also, maybe now we can all agree that WNBA attendance figures for most franchises have been a mirage for years. This summer a Detroit staff member pointed to the fact that the Shock was one of the leaders in WNBA attendance. I diplomatically maintained a straight face! |
Well we know about attendance figures. Some teams are worse than others, while some teams lie very little.
Detroit was obviously far and beyond the worst culprit. Washington is next. Followed by Atlanta, Los Angeles, New York, Phoenix.
Seattle and Connecticut are the most accurate.
But look at the NBA teams, they do it too, it's just not as apparent with the good teams because the lower levels are packed. But the Celtics report a sellout nearly every night, yet when you look closely there are 5+ full upper level sections with nobody seated there. Did anyone watch the Clippers game last night? There were less people there than at most Storm or Sun games. The same can be said for the Grizzlies and a handful of other teams.
Assuming your number is correct, I would take a 25% success rate. Proportionally, the number of NBA teams failing is about the same. Look at businesses worldwide. Most nowadays aren't breaking even. |
At what point will you guys realize the attendance count is not the people that show up but the tickets that are sold/givenaway count.
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O.G.
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 11/21/09 1:48 pm ::: |
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| uncommonclay wrote: |
Is WNBA's Monarchs bound for Oakland?
| Quote: |
An Oakland councilwoman said Friday talks are under way with WNBA officials to relocate the Sacramento Monarchs to Oracle Arena.
"They are very serious about this," said Councilwoman Rebecca Kaplan, who has been pushing the idea to have a team based in Oakland.
Greg Jamison, CEO of Silicon Valley Sports & Entertainment that operates the Sharks and HP Pavilion, issued a statement saying he hasn't had discussions with WNBA officials to bring a team to San Jose. |
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OK ... just found out about the Monarchs folding and am still reeling.
But bring 'em to the Bay Area PLEASE!! I will personally VOLUNTEER to round up STHs. I'm calling Rebecca Kaplan today to see what I can do.
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potd41
Joined: 27 Nov 2004
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mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 11/21/09 5:05 pm ::: |
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| Fuzzball Records wrote: |
| Anyone who puts their faith in the word of David Stern is a fool. |
Stern's been quite supportive of the league. People may have their issues of him, but bottom line, he's been consistent in sticking up for the WNBA.
Just this past year he said the NBA loses much more money than the WNBA and actually expects the WNBA to end up even.
Now, who knows if he's lying, but who cares. He speaks postively, and has supported it for 12 years. He's got a shit ton of money, his ego is what matters to him, and he wants to prove everyone wrong about the league.
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beeball
Joined: 25 May 2006
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| Posted: 11/21/09 5:15 pm ::: Re: WNBA Future |
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| DTP wrote: |
| nickv1025 wrote: |
| BobScoutingReport wrote: |
Nick, I think you summerized it beaufifully.
Right now, Ms. Donna may have wished she bolted for the LPGA as the road ahead appears to be bumpy at best.
The problem with non-NBA ownership is being certain the owners can stomach the losses that go with WNBA teams. From what I have heard, the league is lucky if 25% of the franchises finish in the black in any year.
Also, maybe now we can all agree that WNBA attendance figures for most franchises have been a mirage for years. This summer a Detroit staff member pointed to the fact that the Shock was one of the leaders in WNBA attendance. I diplomatically maintained a straight face! |
Well we know about attendance figures. Some teams are worse than others, while some teams lie very little.
Detroit was obviously far and beyond the worst culprit. Washington is next. Followed by Atlanta, Los Angeles, New York, Phoenix.
Seattle and Connecticut are the most accurate.
But look at the NBA teams, they do it too, it's just not as apparent with the good teams because the lower levels are packed. But the Celtics report a sellout nearly every night, yet when you look closely there are 5+ full upper level sections with nobody seated there. Did anyone watch the Clippers game last night? There were less people there than at most Storm or Sun games. The same can be said for the Grizzlies and a handful of other teams.
Assuming your number is correct, I would take a 25% success rate. Proportionally, the number of NBA teams failing is about the same. Look at businesses worldwide. Most nowadays aren't breaking even. |
At what point will you guys realize the attendance count is not the people that show up but the tickets that are sold/givenaway count. |
Thank you DTP
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GGL
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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Slovydal
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 11/21/09 5:23 pm ::: Re: WNBA Future |
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| beeball wrote: |
| DTP wrote: |
At what point will you guys realize the attendance count is not the people that show up but the tickets that are sold/givenaway count. |
Thank you DTP |
The [correct] point that Bob and Nick are making is that not every WNBA Organization is as inaccurate as the other.
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SuziQ
Joined: 27 Nov 2005
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Location: Phoenix, Arizona
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| Posted: 11/21/09 6:40 pm ::: |
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If tickets were paid for by players or NBA dudes during the Finals (and I've not seen anything that says they didn't actually PAY for them), then technically they were sold. And should be counted as such - they would not be included in comp tickets given away by the teams. Plus, in the case of the Mercury @ USAC, that would account for 7k or so out of over 17k attending. Of course, I have no idea how many tickets the team comp'd. But still - I believe to suggest that people were there only because it was free is not exactly the whole story. They had to want to come.
Where did Robert Sarver ever say in print he was waning in his support of the Mercury? Was this actual fact, or just rumors someone heard? 'Cause I don't remember seeing anything.
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Slovydal
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
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Location: Indianapolis, IN
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| Posted: 11/21/09 6:53 pm ::: |
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| SuziQ wrote: |
If tickets were paid for by players or NBA dudes during the Finals (and I've not seen anything that says they didn't actually PAY for them), then technically they were sold. And should be counted as such - they would not be included in comp tickets given away by the teams. Plus, in the case of the Mercury @ USAC, that would account for 7k or so out of over 17k attending. Of course, I have no idea how many tickets the team comp'd. But still - I believe to suggest that people were there only because it was free is not exactly the whole story. They had to want to come.
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The thing that impressed me about attendance in Indy (during the playoffs/finals) was that when Larry Bird bought and gave away tix to the EC Finals game - the tickets ended up being used. All those upper level seats really did fill up.
Then for the two Finals games, the place sold out.
Completely
Even player's family members had to buy tickets (and couldn't get very good seats)
During the regular season though, I'd say that attendance was inflated a tad (maybe 1000 more than were actually there)
If only the Maloofs could have waited one more season to give the M's a chance to start winning again. Or at least let the league know that a new owner in No CA was needed for 2010.
*sigh*
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FS02
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 11/21/09 7:35 pm ::: |
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| Slovydal wrote: |
If only the Maloofs could have waited one more season to give the M's a chance to start winning again. Or at least let the league know that a new owner in No CA was needed for 2010.
*sigh* |
I don't think people should bail on a team after one bad season. But in a bad economy, it doesn't surprise me. Sometimes we fool ourselves into thinking that everyone who goes to a WNBA game is a hard-core fan like we are, and this is just not the case. (I'm sure the core monarchs fans were very loyal and they are the ones who don't deserve this.)
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luvDhoops
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Spark4Life
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ClayK
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| Posted: 11/21/09 11:58 pm ::: |
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| Both David Stern and Donna Orender are employees of the owners, not the other way around. They have influence, but the power lies with the owners. The owners make the big decisions.
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MNfan22
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 11/22/09 3:29 am ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
| Both David Stern and Donna Orender are employees of the owners, not the other way around. They have influence, but the power lies with the owners. The owners make the big decisions. |
And of some interest; self made billionaire, majority owner of the T-pups/Lynx, Glen Taylor was re-elected to a 2nd term as chairman of the NBA Board of Governors last month.
Of course GT can't make his fellow owners love the idea of the WNBA (as the NBA has it's own issues) but in a small way he can be a positive voice (along w/Stern & Orender) for its existence. (For as long as he stays interested)
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suemar
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