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jimmyk
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 4028
Location: Bristol. TN
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 Posted: 11/21/09 12:41 am ::: |
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I have had enough of this. I can't take another one of these. If any other team in this league folds or moves, you're going to see a fire sale in the Marketplace.
The players found out from someone other than a league or team rep. That's deplorable.
13 championships. 5 remain. All but two of the other five have been in some sort of ownership peril in the past few years. And we say the league is doing BETTER? Not so fast, my friend.
This is absolutely ridiculous.
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PistonShockFan0318
Joined: 05 Feb 2007
Posts: 447
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: 11/21/09 12:51 am ::: |
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| I'm shocked...first the Shock now this... least they could do was tell everyone first..
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BobScoutingReport
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 684
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| Posted: 11/21/09 12:57 am ::: WNBA Future |
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The question remains how few teams will the league be willing to operate with? My guess is 10 would be ok and 8 the absolute minimum.
Regardless of the number for next year, most NBA owners have concluded the WNBA is a loser and only David Stern's ego might prevent the league from folding entirely. A quick look at the teams:
Seattle - not drawing as well as advertised but still 4000+ - ok for now with private ownership
LA - private ownership with good arena deal & sponsor this past year; poor sports town makes it difficult
PHX - saved by LifeLock; had a great year yet fan support was mediocre; had to give away massive tickets to fill place for game 5; ok so long as LifeLock is on scene, otherwise beware!!
San Antonio - supposedly the Stars did ok at gate, at least enough to keep things going as the arena likes the 17 dates
Minn - a franchise drawing poorly; if the franchise is cursed, Taylor will abandon ship on the verge of winning the title; eventually this team will fold unless gate improves
Sacramento - ???? I wonder when Ms. Donna got wind of this. Hopefully, she knew soon after season's end. The Maloofs give the impression that they just walked making no attempt to find a new owner and perhaps not giving the league time to find one.
Tulsa - new, let's give it two years anyway
CT - loaded financially; the Sun give the casino publicity and this club is probably well managed with costs kept down by owning the arena; if they pack it in, forget the league
NY - attendance continues to be much less than in the early days of the league; team poorly managed but provides summer MSG dates; sadly most critical franchise in league is also one of the most poorly run
Wash - it sounds like they are in for the long haul and are giving tickets away again
ATL - new owner probably hoping to use business contacts to survive with increased corporate sponsorship; team has little chance of making it on ticket sales alone; probably good for a couple of years regardless of uphill struggle
Indy - owner is going to expect increased attendance which may or may not happen; Indiana is a BB hotbed; if ownership wants out hopefully they will look for a local buyer next year rather than just dumpimg the franchise as was the case in Detroit
CHI - moving to new arena hoping to attract more fans to make up for increased arena costs; could be the first non-NBA casualty;
attendance at UIC was terribly low.
So are there 8 in this bunch that will still be in the league in 2012?
Which seem the safest franchises?
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mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 19760
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| Posted: 11/21/09 1:18 am ::: Re: WNBA Future |
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| BobScoutingReport wrote: |
The question remains how few teams will the league be willing to operate with? My guess is 10 would be ok and 8 the absolute minimum.
Regardless of the number for next year, most NBA owners have concluded the WNBA is a loser and only David Stern's ego might prevent the league from folding entirely. A quick look at the teams:
Seattle - not drawing as well as advertised but still 4000+ - ok for now with private ownership
LA - private ownership with good arena deal & sponsor this past year; poor sports town makes it difficult
PHX - saved by LifeLock; had a great year yet fan support was mediocre; had to give away massive tickets to fill place for game 5; ok so long as LifeLock is on scene, otherwise beware!!
San Antonio - supposedly the Stars did ok at gate, at least enough to keep things going as the arena likes the 17 dates
Minn - a franchise drawing poorly; if the franchise is cursed, Taylor will abandon ship on the verge of winning the title; eventually this team will fold unless gate improves
Sacramento - ???? I wonder when Ms. Donna got wind of this. Hopefully, she knew soon after season's end. The Maloofs give the impression that they just walked making no attempt to find a new owner and perhaps not giving the league time to find one.
Tulsa - new, let's give it two years anyway
CT - loaded financially; the Sun give the casino publicity and this club is probably well managed with costs kept down by owning the arena; if they pack it in, forget the league
NY - attendance continues to be much less than in the early days of the league; team poorly managed but provides summer MSG dates; sadly most critical franchise in league is also one of the most poorly run
Wash - it sounds like they are in for the long haul and are giving tickets away again
ATL - new owner probably hoping to use business contacts to survive with increased corporate sponsorship; team has little chance of making it on ticket sales alone; probably good for a couple of years regardless of uphill struggle
Indy - owner is going to expect increased attendance which may or may not happen; Indiana is a BB hotbed; if ownership wants out hopefully they will look for a local buyer next year rather than just dumpimg the franchise as was the case in Detroit
CHI - moving to new arena hoping to attract more fans to make up for increased arena costs; could be the first non-NBA casualty;
attendance at UIC was terribly low.
So are there 8 in this bunch that will still be in the league in 2012?
Which seem the safest franchises? |
Seattle, LA, Phoenix, Sass, CT, Wash, NY, and Indy, I would put money on still being around.
But I think Maya Moore REALLY needs to end up in NY for that to be a 100% thing.
I still say, so long as Stern is in charge of the NBA, there will be a WNBA.
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MNfan22
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 2750
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bullsky
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: 11/21/09 2:09 am ::: |
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| What. The. Fuck.
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JRae
Joined: 15 Aug 2008
Posts: 671
Location: somewhere where they got rid of their wnba team cuz the kings suck
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| Posted: 11/21/09 2:17 am ::: |
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| i know understand why houston fans got so upset when we were talking about shelling out their players the same day the team folded.......
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Avatar: From the back of my car. yes it's still there. Maloofs can suck it!
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COMETFEVER
Joined: 17 May 2006
Posts: 278
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mekanos
Joined: 21 Mar 2009
Posts: 756
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| Posted: 11/21/09 3:08 am ::: |
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| Sadly, the dominoes seem to be falling, one .. by .. one.
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Linzin
Joined: 19 May 2007
Posts: 3046
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| Posted: 11/21/09 3:11 am ::: Re: WNBA Future |
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| mercfan3 wrote: |
Seattle, LA, Phoenix, Sass, CT, Wash, NY, and Indy, I would put money on still being around.
But I think Maya Moore REALLY needs to end up in NY for that to be a 100% thing.
I still say, so long as Stern is in charge of the NBA, there will be a WNBA. |
...good for NY, but man. Poor Maya. 
I don't think the league itself is in any danger of folding just yet. I think this recession will be a crisis, but one that the league will survive, and whatever this league needs, it needs time the most.
My heart goes out to Monarchs fans, though.
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Genero36
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 11188
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| Posted: 11/21/09 3:52 am ::: Re: WNBA Future |
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| BobScoutingReport wrote: |
| CT - loaded financially; the Sun give the casino publicity and this club is probably well managed with costs kept down by owning the arena; if they pack it in, forget the league |
I think the Sun is the model franchise by which Orender wants to build on. Loaded financially and totally independent from the NBA, because Orender knows that the WNBA can't lean on the NBA for much longer. It's like the NBA is saying that we got your here; now it's time for you to help yourselves with what we've given to you. The Sun has done that and Orender's hoping that the other teams in the league will follow suit.
If they don't....
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Fuzzball Records
Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 2227
Location: Courtside at Staples Center with Stephanie Miller
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| Posted: 11/21/09 4:04 am ::: |
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| Anyone who puts their faith in the word of David Stern is a fool.
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18371
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: 11/21/09 4:08 am ::: |
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| Fuzzball Records wrote: |
| Anyone who puts their faith in the word of David Stern is a fool. |
If it weren't for David Stern, there would be no WNBA.
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Fuzzball Records
Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 2227
Location: Courtside at Staples Center with Stephanie Miller
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| Posted: 11/21/09 4:25 am ::: |
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| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
| Fuzzball Records wrote: |
| Anyone who puts their faith in the word of David Stern is a fool. |
If it weren't for David Stern, there would be no WNBA. |
That was 12 years ago. The NBA owners are now dumping their W franchises, you think Stern is gonna stand in their way?
Ask the people out in Seattle if you can trust David Stern.
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CourtsideTix
Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 4565
Location: Washington, DC
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| Posted: 11/21/09 5:04 am ::: Re: WNBA Future |
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| Genero36 wrote: |
| BobScoutingReport wrote: |
| CT - loaded financially; the Sun give the casino publicity and this club is probably well managed with costs kept down by owning the arena; if they pack it in, forget the league |
I think the Sun is the model franchise by which Orender wants to build on. Loaded financially and totally independent from the NBA, because Orender knows that the WNBA can't lean on the NBA for much longer. It's like the NBA is saying that we got your here; now it's time for you to help yourselves with what we've given to you. The Sun has done that and Orender's hoping that the other teams in the league will follow suit.
If they don't.... |
The Sun model is unique. It's a tie in with a casino, for heaven's sake. They OWN the arena. It can be a loss leader for them for all we know. At any rate, they have folks coming in there for other reasons (did I mention a casino?).
Having to rent an arena and convince people to go there for the sole reason of seeing a WNBA game is a challenge the Sun do not have. It's not a business model any other franchise can follow.
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Genero36
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 11188
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| Posted: 11/21/09 5:16 am ::: |
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| Fuzzball Records wrote: |
| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
| Fuzzball Records wrote: |
| Anyone who puts their faith in the word of David Stern is a fool. |
If it weren't for David Stern, there would be no WNBA. |
That was 12 years ago. The NBA owners are now dumping their W franchises, you think Stern is gonna stand in their way?
Ask the people out in Seattle if you can trust David Stern. |
He has no right to stand in their way.
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Joe Foss
Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 4066
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shontay33
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Posts: 471
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| Posted: 11/21/09 5:52 am ::: |
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| Maybey the league should have the owners pay one season or a half of a seasons operating costs so in the event that the owners decide that they don't want to have the franchises anymore, the WNBA can operate the franchise until they find a byer. I think that it gives people and playes some job security for a little while. It will give coaches time to find jobs at the college level or pro level and give the players time to decide what they want to do as well. Sure the owners will take a loss but that gives everybody to get some stability. If the owners do pay half then the league can pay the other half through sponsorships.
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Hughsterg
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 76
Location: Near some rivers in Minnesota
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| Posted: 11/21/09 7:00 am ::: Re: WNBA Future |
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| BobScoutingReport wrote: |
The question remains how few teams will the league be willing to operate with? My guess is 10 would be ok and 8 the absolute minimum.
Regardless of the number for next year, most NBA owners have concluded the WNBA is a loser and only David Stern's ego might prevent the league from folding entirely. A quick look at the teams:
Seattle - not drawing as well as advertised but still 4000+ - ok for now with private ownership
LA - private ownership with good arena deal & sponsor this past year; poor sports town makes it difficult
PHX - saved by LifeLock; had a great year yet fan support was mediocre; had to give away massive tickets to fill place for game 5; ok so long as LifeLock is on scene, otherwise beware!!
San Antonio - supposedly the Stars did ok at gate, at least enough to keep things going as the arena likes the 17 dates
Minn - a franchise drawing poorly; if the franchise is cursed, Taylor will abandon ship on the verge of winning the title; eventually this team will fold unless gate improves
Sacramento - ???? I wonder when Ms. Donna got wind of this. Hopefully, she knew soon after season's end. The Maloofs give the impression that they just walked making no attempt to find a new owner and perhaps not giving the league time to find one.
Tulsa - new, let's give it two years anyway
CT - loaded financially; the Sun give the casino publicity and this club is probably well managed with costs kept down by owning the arena; if they pack it in, forget the league
NY - attendance continues to be much less than in the early days of the league; team poorly managed but provides summer MSG dates; sadly most critical franchise in league is also one of the most poorly run
Wash - it sounds like they are in for the long haul and are giving tickets away again
ATL - new owner probably hoping to use business contacts to survive with increased corporate sponsorship; team has little chance of making it on ticket sales alone; probably good for a couple of years regardless of uphill struggle
Indy - owner is going to expect increased attendance which may or may not happen; Indiana is a BB hotbed; if ownership wants out hopefully they will look for a local buyer next year rather than just dumpimg the franchise as was the case in Detroit
CHI - moving to new arena hoping to attract more fans to make up for increased arena costs; could be the first non-NBA casualty;
attendance at UIC was terribly low.
So are there 8 in this bunch that will still be in the league in 2012?
Which seem the safest franchises? |
As long as there are formal wedding invitations, the Lynx will be around. Taylor's company's share of the wedding invitation sales is very high. He loves basketball and will continue to own both teams in the future.
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shrrew
Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 6097
Location: Missouri
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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Location: Where the action is
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| Posted: 11/21/09 8:31 am ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
| However, now we only have a select few WNBA teams owned by their NBA counterparts. New York, Indiana, Minnesota, San Antonio & Phoenix. That's it. |
Yep, if we can live through this trauma five more times, the league will make it.
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abontorab9
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Posts: 6207
Location: Connecticut
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| Posted: 11/21/09 8:38 am ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| toad455 wrote: |
| However, now we only have a select few WNBA teams owned by their NBA counterparts. New York, Indiana, Minnesota, San Antonio & Phoenix. That's it. |
Yep, if we can live through this trauma five more times, the league will make it. |
I truly believe that the Spurs and the TWolves want their teams. I would be fine with them being the only NBA owners. Obviously the Pacers and Suns orgs have made it clear they don't really want the teams, so they are next.
Who knows what's going on in New York.
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BobScoutingReport
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 684
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| Posted: 11/21/09 9:01 am ::: WNBA Future |
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Nick, I think you summerized it beaufifully.
Right now, Ms. Donna may have wished she bolted for the LPGA as the road ahead appears to be bumpy at best.
The problem with non-NBA ownership is being certain the owners can stomach the losses that go with WNBA teams. From what I have heard, the league is lucky if 25% of the franchises finish in the black in any year.
Also, maybe now we can all agree that WNBA attendance figures for most franchises have been a mirage for years. This summer a Detroit staff member pointed to the fact that the Shock was one of the leaders in WNBA attendance. I diplomatically maintained a straight face!
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abontorab9
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Posts: 6207
Location: Connecticut
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| Posted: 11/21/09 9:12 am ::: Re: WNBA Future |
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| BobScoutingReport wrote: |
Nick, I think you summerized it beaufifully.
Right now, Ms. Donna may have wished she bolted for the LPGA as the road ahead appears to be bumpy at best.
The problem with non-NBA ownership is being certain the owners can stomach the losses that go with WNBA teams. From what I have heard, the league is lucky if 25% of the franchises finish in the black in any year.
Also, maybe now we can all agree that WNBA attendance figures for most franchises have been a mirage for years. This summer a Detroit staff member pointed to the fact that the Shock was one of the leaders in WNBA attendance. I diplomatically maintained a straight face! |
Well we know about attendance figures. Some teams are worse than others, while some teams lie very little.
Detroit was obviously far and beyond the worst culprit. Washington is next. Followed by Atlanta, Los Angeles, New York, Phoenix.
Seattle and Connecticut are the most accurate.
But look at the NBA teams, they do it too, it's just not as apparent with the good teams because the lower levels are packed. But the Celtics report a sellout nearly every night, yet when you look closely there are 5+ full upper level sections with nobody seated there. Did anyone watch the Clippers game last night? There were less people there than at most Storm or Sun games. The same can be said for the Grizzlies and a handful of other teams.
Assuming your number is correct, I would take a 25% success rate. Proportionally, the number of NBA teams failing is about the same. Look at businesses worldwide. Most nowadays aren't breaking even.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 63778
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| Posted: 11/21/09 9:37 am ::: |
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| bballfan2005 wrote: |
| irk wrote: |
| I'd take Powell. In a heartbeat. Would she want to come here? |
As long as she's getting paid a high salary and is starting (and winning), I don't think it matters much to her. |
Would they put Wiggins back on the bench or try her out at the point?
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Will it be you or the local witchdoctor that 
