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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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 Posted: 11/28/08 1:54 pm ::: EuroLeague and EuroCup |
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Could someone explain what the difference is between the two. I know they are similiar in the sense that its a league with teams around Europe then they go to a playoff series, but whats the difference: how are teams chosen for which one they participate in? Is it possible for a team to play in EuroLeague for a few seasons then switch over to EuroCup?
Is on league more prestigious than the other and do players pick which team the play on based on whether the team plays in EuroLeague or EuroCup?
Thanks for your responses.
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vanyogan
Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 9673
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| Posted: 11/28/08 2:51 pm ::: Re: EuroLeague and EuroCup |
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| GEF34 wrote: |
Could someone explain what the difference is between the two. I know they are similiar in the sense that its a league with teams around Europe then they go to a playoff series, but whats the difference: how are teams chosen for which one they participate in? Is it possible for a team to play in EuroLeague for a few seasons then switch over to EuroCup?
Is on league more prestigious than the other and do players pick which team the play on based on whether the team plays in EuroLeague or EuroCup?
Thanks for your responses. |
Not sure I can add much, but Euro cup is a minor league but still prestigious. A lot of clubs would kill to get in either league. I think the winner of EuroCup each year is awarde a spot in the Euroleague playoffs each year. I think all clubs play both a domestic league, and one of the two Euro leagues if they are lucky enough to get in.
What I've noticed about some of these lesser clubs, is they are actually schools, where some players are still in their teens. Yep, some of these clubs may start a 17 year old next to a WNBA player! They are for the most part basketball schools with the purpose of graduating pro ball players. This presents a kind of double edged sword, because the best opportunities in women basketball are USA colleges and universities. Obviously if you play for a club that has pros, the NCAA has a problem with that. My two cents... |
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 24349
Location: London
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| Posted: 11/28/08 3:04 pm ::: Re: EuroLeague and EuroCup |
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| vanyogan wrote: |
| This presents a kind of double edged sword, because the best opportunities in women basketball are USA colleges and universities. Obviously if you play for a club that has pros, the NCAA has a problem with that. My two cents... |
That's enormously debateable. Plenty of players have done pretty damn well without ever going anywhere near the US college system, the most recent example being Sandrine Gruda, who got to get paid at 18 (and earlier) rather than travel thousands of miles to play a lesser standard of basketball for nothing in a foreign country. For some players it's a great way to go; for some it'd be a complete waste of time. And yes, playing for a 'pro' team can sometimes cause problems for players who do then go to play in US colleges.
As for the original question, the best teams in each country's domestic league qualify for the following season's EuroLeague (more teams qualify from the stronger leagues/countries), then the ones just below those teams qualify for the EuroCup. It's a reasonably standard and well-understood system over here because it's the same as the Champions' League/UEFA Cup system that's used in European soccer. Basically the EuroLeague's the top one, and the EuroCup's the consolation.
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bullsky
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: 11/28/08 3:15 pm ::: Re: EuroLeague and EuroCup |
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| Richyyy wrote: |
| vanyogan wrote: |
| This presents a kind of double edged sword, because the best opportunities in women basketball are USA colleges and universities. Obviously if you play for a club that has pros, the NCAA has a problem with that. My two cents... |
That's enormously debateable. Plenty of players have done pretty damn well without ever going anywhere near the US college system, the most recent example being Sandrine Gruda, who got to get paid at 18 (and earlier) rather than travel thousands of miles to play a lesser standard of basketball for nothing in a foreign country. For some players it's a great way to go; for some it'd be a complete waste of time. And yes, playing for a 'pro' team can sometimes cause problems for players who do then go to play in US colleges. |
In a lot of countries, people aren't able to play both pro sports and get an education, which is why you see a good amount of players come to the USA for college. I don't think it's necessarily the level of the play, but the fact that you can prepare for your life after basketball. I think this is also why you see a lot of European players, such as Elena Tornikidu, play at such a long age. I don't think she went to college and she might not be prepared for life after basketball, thus stretching her career until her legs give out.
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vanyogan
Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 9673
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| Posted: 11/28/08 3:21 pm ::: Re: EuroLeague and EuroCup |
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| Richyyy wrote: |
| vanyogan wrote: |
| This presents a kind of double edged sword, because the best opportunities in women basketball are USA colleges and universities. Obviously if you play for a club that has pros, the NCAA has a problem with that. My two cents... |
That's enormously debateable. Plenty of players have done pretty damn well without ever going anywhere near the US college system, the most recent example being Sandrine Gruda, who got to get paid at 18 (and earlier) rather than travel thousands of miles to play a lesser standard of basketball for nothing in a foreign country. For some players it's a great way to go; for some it'd be a complete waste of time. And yes, playing for a 'pro' team can sometimes cause problems for players who do then go to play in US colleges.
As for the original question, the best teams in each country's domestic league qualify for the following season's EuroLeague (more teams qualify from the stronger leagues/countries), then the ones just below those teams qualify for the EuroCup. It's a reasonably standard and well-understood system over here because it's the same as the Champions' League/UEFA Cup system that's used in European soccer. Basically the EuroLeague's the top one, and the EuroCup's the consolation. |
I don't dispute that, but apparently you can't frigg'n read. I said "opportunites".
But as long as you stuck your neck out, how about doing a probability distribution on players in FIBA Europe, try correlating salary to USA college credentials. Your argument just plain sucks.
Why is there a limit on non European passports, where do these players come from and did they or did they not go to USA colleges or universities? |
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 24349
Location: London
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| Posted: 11/28/08 3:39 pm ::: Re: EuroLeague and EuroCup |
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| vanyogan wrote: |
| Richyyy wrote: |
| vanyogan wrote: |
| This presents a kind of double edged sword, because the best opportunities in women basketball are USA colleges and universities. Obviously if you play for a club that has pros, the NCAA has a problem with that. My two cents... |
That's enormously debateable. Plenty of players have done pretty damn well without ever going anywhere near the US college system, the most recent example being Sandrine Gruda, who got to get paid at 18 (and earlier) rather than travel thousands of miles to play a lesser standard of basketball for nothing in a foreign country. For some players it's a great way to go; for some it'd be a complete waste of time. And yes, playing for a 'pro' team can sometimes cause problems for players who do then go to play in US colleges.
As for the original question, the best teams in each country's domestic league qualify for the following season's EuroLeague (more teams qualify from the stronger leagues/countries), then the ones just below those teams qualify for the EuroCup. It's a reasonably standard and well-understood system over here because it's the same as the Champions' League/UEFA Cup system that's used in European soccer. Basically the EuroLeague's the top one, and the EuroCup's the consolation. |
I don't dispute that, but apparently you can't frigg'n read. I said "opportunites". |
I can read fine (although apparently you have trouble with English). My (fairly frigg'n obvious) point was that the 'opportunity' to play basketball at a better level and get paid very well for it at 18 is, in many eyes, better than travelling to an alien environment for a college education.
| vanyogan wrote: |
But as long as you stuck your neck out, how about doing a probability distribution on players in FIBA Europe, try correlating salary to USA college credentials. Your argument just plain sucks.
Why is there a limit on non European passports, where do these players come from and did they or did they not go to USA colleges or universities? |
What an idiotic, sideways and spurious argument. The reason a large proportion of the highest paid players in Europe went to US colleges is because a large proportion of the best basketball players in the world are American. Women's basketball is a thoroughly miinor sport around the globe; millions play it in the US. So you guys develop the most players of a decent standard. They all go to US colleges. Hence the large proportion of high-paid players that went to US colleges.
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ulynxfan
Joined: 01 Aug 2008
Posts: 387
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| Posted: 11/28/08 4:00 pm ::: |
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| *eats popcorn bit, by bit *
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vanyogan
Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 9673
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| Posted: 11/28/08 4:08 pm ::: Re: EuroLeague and EuroCup |
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| Richyyy wrote: |
| vanyogan wrote: |
| Richyyy wrote: |
| vanyogan wrote: |
| This presents a kind of double edged sword, because the best opportunities in women basketball are USA colleges and universities. Obviously if you play for a club that has pros, the NCAA has a problem with that. My two cents... |
That's enormously debateable. Plenty of players have done pretty damn well without ever going anywhere near the US college system, the most recent example being Sandrine Gruda, who got to get paid at 18 (and earlier) rather than travel thousands of miles to play a lesser standard of basketball for nothing in a foreign country. For some players it's a great way to go; for some it'd be a complete waste of time. And yes, playing for a 'pro' team can sometimes cause problems for players who do then go to play in US colleges.
As for the original question, the best teams in each country's domestic league qualify for the following season's EuroLeague (more teams qualify from the stronger leagues/countries), then the ones just below those teams qualify for the EuroCup. It's a reasonably standard and well-understood system over here because it's the same as the Champions' League/UEFA Cup system that's used in European soccer. Basically the EuroLeague's the top one, and the EuroCup's the consolation. |
I don't dispute that, but apparently you can't frigg'n read. I said "opportunites". |
I can read fine (although apparently you have trouble with English). My (fairly frigg'n obvious) point was that the 'opportunity' to play basketball at a better level and get paid very well for it at 18 is, in many eyes, better than travelling to an alien environment for a college education.
| vanyogan wrote: |
But as long as you stuck your neck out, how about doing a probability distribution on players in FIBA Europe, try correlating salary to USA college credentials. Your argument just plain sucks.
Why is there a limit on non European passports, where do these players come from and did they or did they not go to USA colleges or universities? |
What an idiotic, sideways and spurious argument. The reason a large proportion of the highest paid players in Europe went to US colleges is because a large proportion of the best basketball players in the world are American. Women's basketball is a thoroughly miinor sport around the globe; millions play it in the US. So you guys develop the most players of a decent standard. They all go to US colleges. Hence the large proportion of high-paid players that went to US colleges. |
Yea, well, OK, I didn't really want to go off on this topic. Sorry bout that.
I think the basic question is whether or not NCAA basketball, at the highest level, is the most desirable preparation for a pro career. As you point out, it's not the only avenue, but I think it is the best avenue.
I don't think it is anything more than the fact that NCAA is where the best players happen to be, so when you play against the best, it is your best opportunity to be the best. |
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eurobasket
Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 673
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| Posted: 11/28/08 6:55 pm ::: |
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What attracted to me this site was information such as this.
http://www.womensbasketball-in-france.com/euroleague.html
http://www.womensbasketball-in-france.com/eurocup.html
It is important that each Federation has it rules about qualification for EuroLeague. For example in France this season, the winner of the French Clubs will take one of the French places in the EuroLeague.
Because of a FIBA ranking points system per country so good clubs sides in certain leagues do not have the opportunity to play in the EuroLeague and will play in the EuroCup.
The Winner of the EuroCup now qualifies for the EuroLeague.
In the past the EuroCup was more regional to reduce the travel costs and allow more teams to take part. But in the last two seasons the regional aspect has disappeared so only clubs that really afford all the travel costs that go with this competition take part.
If you take Belgium Dexia did not take part in the EuroLeague this year and was the only club from Belgium in European competition. No clubs from Germany took part either.
As Richyyy more or less explained the EuroLeague is number one competition while the Eurocup is for team that cannot participate in the EuroLeague due to missing out on domestic qualification.
Some clubs refuse to play in the EuroLeague because it is too expensive although they have qualified and participate in the EuroCup.
They are certain financial obligations for EuroLeague Games which are much more expensive than EuroCup game.
I hope this helps as you will have noticed it has nothing to do with the standard.
I guess it is already forgotten but Lisa Leslie led Spartak Moscow Region to the EuroCup title in 2006.
On that same team you had Ticha Penicheiro and Linda Fröhlich
In 2007 Dynamo Moscow also won the EuroCup
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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vanyogan
Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 9673
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| Posted: 11/28/08 8:05 pm ::: |
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| eurobasket wrote: |
What attracted to me this site was information such as this.
http://www.womensbasketball-in-france.com/euroleague.html
http://www.womensbasketball-in-france.com/eurocup.html
It is important that each Federation has it rules about qualification for EuroLeague. For example in France this season, the winner of the French Clubs will take one of the French places in the EuroLeague.
Because of a FIBA ranking points system per country so good clubs sides in certain leagues do not have the opportunity to play in the EuroLeague and will play in the EuroCup.
The Winner of the EuroCup now qualifies for the EuroLeague.
In the past the EuroCup was more regional to reduce the travel costs and allow more teams to take part. But in the last two seasons the regional aspect has disappeared so only clubs that really afford all the travel costs that go with this competition take part.
If you take Belgium Dexia did not take part in the EuroLeague this year and was the only club from Belgium in European competition. No clubs from Germany took part either.
As Richyyy more or less explained the EuroLeague is number one competition while the Eurocup is for team that cannot participate in the EuroLeague due to missing out on domestic qualification.
Some clubs refuse to play in the EuroLeague because it is too expensive although they have qualified and participate in the EuroCup.
They are certain financial obligations for EuroLeague Games which are much more expensive than EuroCup game.
I hope this helps as you will have noticed it has nothing to do with the standard.
I guess it is already forgotten but Lisa Leslie led Spartak Moscow Region to the EuroCup title in 2006.
On that same team you had Ticha Penicheiro and Linda Fröhlich
In 2007 Dynamo Moscow also won the EuroCup |
Thanks for the info eurocup, it really is helpful, the FIBA site is like nothing and the translations can get rather bizzare.
Speaking of bizzare, am I the only one who finds it a bit creepy that the FIBA site hasn't reported a word on CSKA? |
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 32335
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| Posted: 11/29/08 12:11 am ::: |
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[quote="vanyogan]
Speaking of bizzare, am I the only one who finds it a bit creepy that the FIBA site hasn't reported a word on CSKA?[/quote]
It was alluded to albeit in a roundabout way in the Faurie article - in terms of " keep in mind teams might change in the next weeks, even more with the arrival on the market of some players from CSKA."
Wonder if JMac will end up back at Kosice
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 14109
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| Posted: 11/29/08 12:25 am ::: |
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| myrtle wrote: |
It was alluded to albeit in a roundabout way in the Faurie article - in terms of " keep in mind teams might change in the next weeks, even more with the arrival on the market of some players from CSKA."
Wonder if JMac will end up back at Kosice |
according to the CSKA is out of EuroLeague (I think thats the name) thread all the players are returning to CSKA
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