RebKell's Junkie Boards
Board Junkies Forums
 
Log in Register FAQ Memberlist Search RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index

Russian Teams Financial Troubles?

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index » WNBA
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
shrrew



Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 6098
Location: Missouri


Back to top
PostPosted: 11/19/08 11:21 am    ::: Russian Teams Financial Troubles? Reply Reply with quote

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.beckyhammon.ucoz.ru%2F&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=ru&tl=en


This seems to be mostly CSKA but what about the other teams?





You know the Hammonites hear everything first....... Laughing




_________________
(shrrew)
HotForHammon



Joined: 04 Jul 2007
Posts: 5008
Location: Hammonite Nation


Back to top
PostPosted: 11/19/08 11:36 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Korstin: many of the women's Superleague clubs will not survive until the end of the season

The captain of women's basketball club CSKA Ilona Korstin said that going through a difficult transition Maria Stepanova of the army team at UMMC.

It is very difficult without Mashi, because it is a lot of years to play for our club. Moreover, I have it, too, have started to play basketball. We were in St. Petersburg with the same coach - Kiry Trzheskal. Naturally, when you have long worked with people side by side, and then he goes, it is not very pleasant. I am talking about personal feelings. But the club took this decision because it happened and very sad. Including for our fans, as many came to see and it, too. But this has nothing to be helped », - sends word basketbolistki, Just Korstin said that world economic negative impact on the Russian basketball.

«Problems in the global economy will impact on the game in the worst way. . Of course, sports and show business depends on the country's economy and the world. If the industry there are any problems, they affect and basketball. Now there is a crisis in basketball. Many sponsors refused to finance teams, where some players are not being paid within one to two months. . I am referring to the Russian clubs, of course. . Already aware that many of the women's Superleague clubs will not survive until the end of the season because they did not have enough financial resources. But we did hope that it'll all », - said basketbolistka.

At the end of his speech Korstin told whom she would like to see as a mentor team of Russia, instead fled the office of Igor belly
«Now it is very difficult to answer the question of who should replace the sternum. . Among women, this post could claim only Natalia Heykova, which has been an assistant belly. . On the other hand, we have very few good mentors Russians, a lot of foreigners. And take a foreigner in the team ... Yes, it is fashionable, but now the matter is discussed. It is still not fully resolved. Messina? He did not want - one hundred percent », - Korstin added.

http://translate.google.com/translat...hl=en&ie=UTF-8



_________________
www.silverstarsnation.com
www.beckyhammon25.com
Avatar...August 21, 2010 River Walk...Hammonites partying w/ Becky...AWESOME NIGHT!
baker10



Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 2560
Location: California


Back to top
PostPosted: 11/19/08 11:59 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

with the way the global economy has been going, you could see this coming..


shrrew



Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 6098
Location: Missouri


Back to top
PostPosted: 11/19/08 12:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I am just hoping it is not a domino effect....



_________________
(shrrew)
StevenHW



Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 9200
Location: Sacramento, California


Back to top
PostPosted: 11/19/08 12:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Part of the translated post:
Quote:
...At the end of his speech [Ilona] Korstin told whom she would like to see as a mentor team of Russia, instead fled the office of Igor belly «Now it is very difficult to answer the question of who should replace the sternum. . Among women, this post could claim only Natalia Heykova, which has been an assistant belly...



"Replace the sternum"? "Assistant belly"? Sorry, but I couldn't resist. Very Happy



_________________
"You know what I like about sports? Half the people go home unhappy." - Comedian George Carlin (R.I.P.)
bullsky



Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 20122



Back to top
PostPosted: 11/19/08 1:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This is good for the WNBA. See, the WNBA might not make the most money, but our money is far more secure than the European leagues.



_________________
"Don't do something until you get it right, do it until you can't do it wrong."
- Geno Auriemma
CB



Joined: 16 Nov 2006
Posts: 11089



Back to top
PostPosted: 11/19/08 1:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If the WNBA is like Stern and the NBA, they like seeing basketball spread worldwide.

I doubt the WNBA thinks this is a good thing.



_________________
"All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." Edmund Burke
bullsky



Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 20122



Back to top
PostPosted: 11/19/08 1:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CB wrote:
If the WNBA is like Stern and the NBA, they like seeing basketball spread worldwide.

I doubt the WNBA thinks this is a good thing.


Of course they want basketball to be spread worldwide, but this could mean that some of Europe's best may now think about coming to the States to make money. The last couple of years, leagues in Europe have paid their players more and more, while the international number of WNBA players has decreased.

Point blank, the more internationals in the WNBA the better. We're not the world's best league. We may be the world's most competitive league, but we're not the best. With the financial issues in Russia, this may free up some of those players to now consider spending the summer in the States, which will be better for the WNBA.



_________________
"Don't do something until you get it right, do it until you can't do it wrong."
- Geno Auriemma
ClayK



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 6521



Back to top
PostPosted: 11/19/08 1:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

As with most bubbles, the European women's basketball bubble will inevitably burst -- no system can stand in this culture without coming close to breaking even, and all reports indicate that the Russian women's basketball league is not within range of turning a profit.

Sooner or later, some kind of correction will take place, and most likely, it will result in a drastic lowering of European salaries. When that happens, the WNBA will suddenly become much more attractive for European players. (If you're making $300,000, an extra $50,000 doesn't mean that much; if you're making $100,000, it increases your income by 50%.)

A collapse in Europe would also give the WNBA an opportunity to restructure some women's leagues under the WNBA banner, if that would make sense. For example, the WNBA could conceivably run the Euroleague if its sponsors bail -- the opportunity might make sense because it would position the NBA to move in the same direction at some point.

Most likely, though, the major impact of a drastic correction in European women's basketball will result in more European women exploring the WNBA option. How many would actually come, and how many would actually elevate the caliber of play in the league in a noticeable manner are different questions entirely.



_________________
Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
CB



Joined: 16 Nov 2006
Posts: 11089



Back to top
PostPosted: 11/19/08 3:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

bullsky wrote:
CB wrote:
If the WNBA is like Stern and the NBA, they like seeing basketball spread worldwide.

I doubt the WNBA thinks this is a good thing.


Of course they want basketball to be spread worldwide, but this could mean that some of Europe's best may now think about coming to the States to make money. The last couple of years, leagues in Europe have paid their players more and more, while the international number of WNBA players has decreased.

Point blank, the more internationals in the WNBA the better. We're not the world's best league. We may be the world's most competitive league, but we're not the best. With the financial issues in Russia, this may free up some of those players to now consider spending the summer in the States, which will be better for the WNBA.


First, to include some response to ClayK's post as well as yours, this is the Russia League (Superleague) Korstin was talking about, not necessarily EuroLeague though that includes some Russian League teams it sounds like.

If it's just Russian teams, I don't think it will make a difference in any of them coming to the WNBA. Very few came here over the last 12 years though in the last few years it seems many WNBA players have started going overseas.

I'm surprised at your statement that the amount of WNBA players going overseas is decreasing, it seems to have swelled in recent years but I'm only aware of these leagues over the last few years anyway. Where did you get that info?



_________________
"All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." Edmund Burke


Last edited by CB on 11/19/08 3:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
bullsky



Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 20122



Back to top
PostPosted: 11/19/08 5:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CB wrote:
I'm surprised at your statement that the amount of WNBA players going overseas is decreasing, it seems to have swelled in recent years but I'm only aware of these leagues over the last few years anyway. Where did you get that info?


Not the amount of WNBA players going overseas. I meant the amount of foreign players coming to the WNBA has shrunk. The WNBA is not really an "international" league.



_________________
"Don't do something until you get it right, do it until you can't do it wrong."
- Geno Auriemma
Luuuc



Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 14920



Back to top
PostPosted: 11/19/08 5:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'd be happy to see more of the world's best international players in the WNBA, but I wish it was under better circumstances.
I would much rather that they came due to the league's excellent pay & conditions than the fact that their alternative opportunities were drying up Sad
Still, this situation has been discussed here several times before and we all knew that it was basically inevitable. If it affects Russia then it is also going to have a flow-on effect to every other league that plays at the same time.



_________________
Seems rike no one takes me serirousreee
CB



Joined: 16 Nov 2006
Posts: 11089



Back to top
PostPosted: 11/19/08 5:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

bullsky wrote:
CB wrote:
I'm surprised at your statement that the amount of WNBA players going overseas is decreasing, it seems to have swelled in recent years but I'm only aware of these leagues over the last few years anyway. Where did you get that info?


Not the amount of WNBA players going overseas. I meant the amount of foreign players coming to the WNBA has shrunk. The WNBA is not really an "international" league.


Oh, I see what you meant.

I still don't think it will entice more Russians especially nor many more internationals to the WNBA. There are plenty of countries with basketball leagues over there. Just my opinion. Smile

I will be extremely happy if Ann and Edwige come back to SASS as both hadn't played in the WNBA for a year or two as it is.



_________________
"All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." Edmund Burke
bballfan2005



Joined: 22 Aug 2005
Posts: 25318
Location: Somewhere here and there


Back to top
PostPosted: 11/19/08 5:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The WNBA plays in the summer, when many European national teams are busy trying to qualify for FIBA-sanctioned events. It's not a league that's accommodating of European players. Asian players, in general, aren't strong WNBA prospects.

While some Russian teams are having financial issues, I don't see this as the "end of EuroLeague" or European basketball. Too big a jump is being made for those who come to that conclusion.


STLnTDOT



Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 607
Location: Toronto


Back to top
PostPosted: 11/19/08 6:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

bballfan2005 wrote:
The WNBA plays in the summer, when many European national teams are busy trying to qualify for FIBA-sanctioned events. It's not a league that's accommodating of European players. Asian players, in general, aren't strong WNBA prospects.

While some Russian teams are having financial issues, I don't see this as the "end of EuroLeague" or European basketball. Too big a jump is being made for those who come to that conclusion.


I agree, I dont think it is the end of EuroLeague play, but maybe just the downfall of the Russian SuperLeague Womens Division as it is known now.


bullsky



Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 20122



Back to top
PostPosted: 11/19/08 6:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

STLnTDOT wrote:
bballfan2005 wrote:
The WNBA plays in the summer, when many European national teams are busy trying to qualify for FIBA-sanctioned events. It's not a league that's accommodating of European players. Asian players, in general, aren't strong WNBA prospects.

While some Russian teams are having financial issues, I don't see this as the "end of EuroLeague" or European basketball. Too big a jump is being made for those who come to that conclusion.


I agree, I dont think it is the end of EuroLeague play, but maybe just the downfall of the Russian SuperLeague Womens Division as it is known now.


Yes, but the Russian league is where the best players are at. Players will have to take pay cuts (sometimes significant) to play in lesser countries such as France, Italy or the Czech Republic. There will still be basketball in Europe, but it won't be near as economically sound.



_________________
"Don't do something until you get it right, do it until you can't do it wrong."
- Geno Auriemma
root_thing



Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 2228
Location: Underground


Back to top
PostPosted: 11/19/08 10:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Before we start dancing on the grave of European basketball, let's make sure we're not standing in a hole ourselves. Possibly 3 million jobs lost if the auto industry goes down and takes with it suppliers and maybe media companies (automakers are major advertisers). A commercial mortgage crisis is on the horizon. Underfunded pension funds in both the private and public sectors are at risk. State and municipal governments are looking at huge budget shortfalls. Everyone is standing on line waiting for a bailout from the Federal government, which is itself deep in debt. Our economy is likely to get a lot worse, and believe me, the WNBA will feel its share of pain.



_________________
Skylar before she became controversial.
accommodatingly



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 2191
Location: Saint Paul, MN


Back to top
PostPosted: 11/19/08 10:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Basketball in western europe might remain economically sound enough to keep most elite players who grew up in europe in europe, since their salaries weren't at russian levels in the first place-- but those salaries were high enough to draw, year after year, US players who weren't good enough for the top-playing russian teams (Ohlde in Belgium, to take one of many examples).

So if the russian bubble pops but the western european teams stay where they are, it may be that the only change is that diana, sue, cappie & co spend the winter in france or spain rather than siberia. Remember, most elite US players were playing overseas most years even before the Russian tycoons began to throw their big rubles around.

I'd like to see the WNBA pay its players so well that the best players usually choose not to go overseas. But that's not coming any time soon. with the economy where it is, I'll be delighted just to see all the teams solvent at this time next year, and to see somebody purchase the comets. Remember, it only takes one well-capitalized owner (or group of owners, as in Seattle) to save a team.

As for Euros into the WNBA, I don't think it's going to matter very much whether the second-round draft picks are foreign or not. From a PR perspective, it's probably better to have the reserves and role players come from US college teams, rather than overseas, especially since Euros don't make reliable multi-year commitments, hence they are hard to market around. But if we can get the next LJ over here, obviously we should. Is there a "next LJ"?


eurobasket



Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 670



Back to top
PostPosted: 11/20/08 12:36 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Becaue one or two clubs in the Russian Super League do not have as much money as before will not bring down EuroLeague or basketball in Europe. EuroLeague is just a competition that clubs actually pay to play in. It is not like FIBA Europe pay clubs to travel all round Europe to play one another.

If Clubs cannot arrange their own sponsorship and finances then they do not take part. Last season CSKA , Spartak and UMMC had Budgets of more than 10 million Euro. When CSKA missed out on qualifying for the EuroLeague final four some people where not happy. As a result the pressure is now on, they must qualify for the final four.

If you remember CSKA moved from Volgaburmash to Moscow last season. One of the reasons for the move was to keep certain players happy and have fewer excuses for not winning everything.

They are only four clubs in Russia that have really big budget, the other clubs may have more money than clubs in some of the better leagues in Europe.

When we hear a player from the top 4 clubs has not been paid for a couple of months then we can finally said the bubble has burst.

If Maria Steponova can leave CSKA and then walk into UMMC, the same club that paid off Harrower and will have Parker joining in January, it is difficult to believe that anything has changed.

It will always be difficult to get players who are playing for national teams to play in the WNBA as they have changed the European Calendar. This season the EuroBasket for Women is in June, right at the start of the WNBA season.

This means that international players will miss WNBA preseason. Why do I say this is because all the leagues stop December 20th and do not start again till the end of January because of the EuroBasket Additional round games.
FS02



Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 9392
Location: Husky (west coast) Country


Back to top
PostPosted: 11/20/08 3:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
Before we start dancing on the grave of European basketball, let's make sure we're not standing in a hole ourselves. Possibly 3 million jobs lost if the auto industry goes down and takes with it suppliers and maybe media companies (automakers are major advertisers). A commercial mortgage crisis is on the horizon. Underfunded pension funds in both the private and public sectors are at risk. State and municipal governments are looking at huge budget shortfalls. Everyone is standing on line waiting for a bailout from the Federal government, which is itself deep in debt. Our economy is likely to get a lot worse, and believe me, the WNBA will feel its share of pain.


Yeah, and no one is going to bail out the WNBA. Crying or Very sad

Russian league owners were spending money like drunken sailors, so it was only a matter of time.


HotForHammon



Joined: 04 Jul 2007
Posts: 5008
Location: Hammonite Nation


Back to top
PostPosted: 11/20/08 8:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

eurobasket wrote:
If Clubs cannot arrange their own sponsorship and finances then they do not take part. Last season CSKA , Spartak and UMMC had Budgets of more than 10 million Euro. When CSKA missed out on qualifying for the EuroLeague final four some people where not happy. As a result the pressure is now on, they must qualify for the final four.

When we hear a player from the top 4 clubs has not been paid for a couple of months then we can finally said the bubble has burst.

If Maria Steponova can leave CSKA and then walk into UMMC, the same club that paid off Harrower and will have Parker joining in January, it is difficult to believe that anything has changed.


The way CSKA has been playing they will have a very hard time qualifying. Releasing Stepanova and not replacing her is very telling (it now sounds like the left her go to free up her 700k salery) and from what we have been told is that unless they find a sponsor they won't make payroll past November and the Americans, Wauters and Lawson-Wade will be released. According to a blog on Becky's Russian fan site it sounds like the players agreed to play through December. Team officials are also encouraging the players to take offers if they get them from other teams. They have a meeting Friday to try and figure out what to do.

Either way, a women's basketball team folding in not good for the game and just adds more fuel for the haters of womens sports be they here in the US or in Europe. One of the reports was that the people that bought the previous sponsors business have sports interests other then womens sports. Sad



_________________
www.silverstarsnation.com
www.beckyhammon25.com
Avatar...August 21, 2010 River Walk...Hammonites partying w/ Becky...AWESOME NIGHT!
ClayK



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 6521



Back to top
PostPosted: 11/20/08 1:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm not in Europe or as familiar with the economic system there, but in general, salaries are driven by what the top companies pay -- and other companies tend to follow along.

If that holds true in women's basketball, then the Russian salaries forced the western European clubs to raise their salaries (maybe a lot, maybe a little) in return. Athletes are notorious for using other players' incomes to demand more for themselves, and I can't believe that had no impact in Europe. It might have been small, though, and thus not really an issue.

But if Italian salaries, say, for top players, went up $50,000 to $100,000 while Russian salaries went up $200,000, then I do think the WNBA will be more attractive to a few players.

Of course, the national teams will always have an effect, and second-round picks don't matter (go local, certainly, and get a few stories by bringing nearby players to camp), so maybe the overall impact won't be much. But even two or three big-time Euros could change the fortunes of a couple of teams -- look at Ann Wauters and San Antonio.



_________________
Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
BCBG25



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 20112
Location: Sampa


Back to top
PostPosted: 11/20/08 2:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Regardless of what happens in Europe, I still don't think the WNBA will be a main source of income for the top players. Or even the middle of the pack who can still get paid more in Europe.
They will probably just take a paycut that will still make their salaries significantly higher than their WNBA salaries.



_________________
Kings of the World!
CB



Joined: 16 Nov 2006
Posts: 11089



Back to top
PostPosted: 11/20/08 2:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
I'm not in Europe or as familiar with the economic system there, but in general, salaries are driven by what the top companies pay -- and other companies tend to follow along.

If that holds true in women's basketball, then the Russian salaries forced the western European clubs to raise their salaries (maybe a lot, maybe a little) in return. Athletes are notorious for using other players' incomes to demand more for themselves, and I can't believe that had no impact in Europe. It might have been small, though, and thus not really an issue.

But if Italian salaries, say, for top players, went up $50,000 to $100,000 while Russian salaries went up $200,000, then I do think the WNBA will be more attractive to a few players.

Of course, the national teams will always have an effect, and second-round picks don't matter (go local, certainly, and get a few stories by bringing nearby players to camp), so maybe the overall impact won't be much. But even two or three big-time Euros could change the fortunes of a couple of teams -- look at Ann Wauters and San Antonio.


SASS was already a pretty good team but I'm not sure we would have made the Finals had Ann not come in regardless of if we got Griffith or someone else instead and still had Camille. Edwige really did play an important part in our success as well coming in with that hot 3 point shot all summer.



_________________
"All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." Edmund Burke
eurobasket



Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 670



Back to top
PostPosted: 11/20/08 10:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

When one of the biggest basketball men clubs in Germany went of business last season it did not make the headlines. Since March this year and the time I am writing this, 20 basketball clubs have disappeared off the radar screen, so if CSKA was to go the same way, it will be quickly forgotten.

It will not be viewed as a problem of women's basketball or sport. It is just the way things are at the moment.

Due to the influx of money in Russia, the only league to really raise it salary was Italy.

In Belgium it had the opposite effect as the salaries actually dropped.

In France the budgets of most of the top clubs have remained static or dropped in recent years, and as the clubs have a strict budget, they cannot meet the salaries currently played in Russia and Italy.

But what is more interesting is the money offered in Latvia, Czech Republic, Slovakia and Poland. They can almost meet what is paid in Russia and beat Italy, Spain and France.

All the same I cannot see what is happening in Europe having any effect on the WNBA and its Business model

With or without overseas players, it will still be an exciting league and even if the bubble bursts in Russia, the stars from the WNBA will still find clubs that will play them well during the off season.
shrrew



Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 6098
Location: Missouri


Back to top
PostPosted: 11/21/08 10:00 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The latest news off the Silver Stars Nation board where they are translating key pieces of the russian boards is that CSKA is only funded until December 1st.

CSKA already looking for new backers but so far no luck. They are not answering their office phones either.

Players have already been encouraged to find new clubs to play for. This might work for the lower paid members of the team but the top choice players are going to have a hard time finding a new team.


CSKA going down.... down.... down..... Crying or Very sad



_________________
(shrrew)
CB



Joined: 16 Nov 2006
Posts: 11089



Back to top
PostPosted: 11/21/08 10:05 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

eurobasket wrote:
When one of the biggest basketball men clubs in Germany went of business last season it did not make the headlines. Since March this year and the time I am writing this, 20 basketball clubs have disappeared off the radar screen, so if CSKA was to go the same way, it will be quickly forgotten.

It will not be viewed as a problem of women's basketball or sport. It is just the way things are at the moment.

Due to the influx of money in Russia, the only league to really raise it salary was Italy.

In Belgium it had the opposite effect as the salaries actually dropped.

In France the budgets of most of the top clubs have remained static or dropped in recent years, and as the clubs have a strict budget, they cannot meet the salaries currently played in Russia and Italy.

But what is more interesting is the money offered in Latvia, Czech Republic, Slovakia and Poland. They can almost meet what is paid in Russia and beat Italy, Spain and France.

All the same I cannot see what is happening in Europe having any effect on the WNBA and its Business model

With or without overseas players, it will still be an exciting league and even if the bubble bursts in Russia, the stars from the WNBA will still find clubs that will play them well during the off season.


Thanks for this.

I heard most teams overseas are on very solid financial ground.



_________________
"All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." Edmund Burke
MuneravenMN



Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Posts: 3702



Back to top
PostPosted: 11/21/08 11:05 am    ::: Bubbles burst Reply Reply with quote

This whole world economic mess is the result of many bubbles bursting at once, and sports are going to be part of that. WNBA salaries and ticket prices are reasonable but at some point men's pro sports are going to have to bite the bullet and lower slaries and ticket prices because we are in the midst of a huge middle class lifestyle correction here, and we are not going to get back permanently to middle-class equaling living in a suburban Mcmansion with two SUVs and lots of extra money to throw at terribly expensive sporting events. It may not happen right away but, over time, pro sports are going to have to get affordable again or die off. And that's world-wide.

Women will feel it first, but men will feel it more severely over time.



_________________
[CENTER]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/18.jpg[/CENTER]
root_thing



Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 2228
Location: Underground


Back to top
PostPosted: 11/21/08 4:10 pm    ::: Re: Bubbles burst Reply Reply with quote

MuneravenMN wrote:
This whole world economic mess is the result of many bubbles bursting at once, and sports are going to be part of that.


That's exactly it. We are not talking about business models or the fortunes of particular teams. This is a worldwide economic problem. All businesses are being affected by the credit crunch and the recession. IN ADDITION, the emerging market countries are dealing with a currency problem because everyone is fleeing to the dollar and yen. Consequently, they have to convert to dollars or yen at increasingly higher rates if they want to do business. That's if they can convert at all. This is affecting all businesses in these countries and will obviously filter down to sports teams.



_________________
Skylar before she became controversial.
HotForHammon



Joined: 04 Jul 2007
Posts: 5008
Location: Hammonite Nation


Back to top
PostPosted: 11/21/08 4:20 pm    ::: Re: Bubbles burst Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
MuneravenMN wrote:
This whole world economic mess is the result of many bubbles bursting at once, and sports are going to be part of that.


That's exactly it. We are not talking about business models or the fortunes of particular teams. This is a worldwide economic problem. All businesses are being affected by the credit crunch and the recession. IN ADDITION, the emerging market countries are dealing with a currency problem because everyone is fleeing to the dollar and yen. Consequently, they have to convert to dollars or yen at increasingly higher rates if they want to do business. That's if they can convert at all. This is affecting all businesses in these countries and will obviously filter down to sports teams.


That's pretty much what this says...
Crisis reaches Russia

Quote:
Our contact in Russia informed us about some major development in Russia. According to him the global financial crisis has a direct effect on the Russian basketball now. If you really think it about it - it just makes sense and critics of the high paying Russian investors are finally proven right.

He also explains us why Russia is having problems:

Much depends on the Dollar value. If the oil price keeps dropping - the Ruble (Russian currency) will fall. It is expected that the Ruble will fall. From here - everything will get worse. Many Russian basketball contracts are in dollars, and the sponsoring of the clubs and salaries is in rubles. - meaning the clubs will have to pay more money to their players.



_________________
www.silverstarsnation.com
www.beckyhammon25.com
Avatar...August 21, 2010 River Walk...Hammonites partying w/ Becky...AWESOME NIGHT!
eurobasket



Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 670



Back to top
PostPosted: 11/21/08 10:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Based on the previous post by HotForHammon, I will try and explain why CSKA is really in trouble.

Andrei Ischuk who has run the club from the start has pulled out of the Russian Market. With him gone they do not have anybody to run the payroll.

He was responsible for the budgets and with his departure, which was actually in September the club was on borrowed time.

The club is actually under the control of a group of people from Volgaburmash who are not ready to bank roll the club to the same extend.

No payment for October and it looks like nothing for November. The European season come to a break on Dec 20. I guess if a solution is not found then CSKA will end its activities.

It is a sign of the times when Spartak Moscow after playing in France, two weeks did not return to Russia, but stayed in France and then flew out to Italy (I am assuming they flew- because they could have gone by train or bus).

In the good old days they would have certainly have flown back to Moscow between games.


Dynamo Moscow are the second team in the Russia League that are in trouble.
STLnTDOT



Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 607
Location: Toronto


Back to top
PostPosted: 11/21/08 10:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

eurobasket wrote:


No payment for October and it looks like nothing for November. The European season come to a break on Dec 20. I guess if a solution is not found then CSKA will end its activities.



From a very good source, they could be done even before that


HotForHammon



Joined: 04 Jul 2007
Posts: 5008
Location: Hammonite Nation


Back to top
PostPosted: 11/24/08 11:44 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Looks like CSKA is done. Crying or Very sad

Quote:
Women' s CSKA of removed of from of the of country' s of championship of because of of funding of problems, transmits of radio of " Mayak" , referring to of the Of president of of the Of russian Of federation Of sergei Of chernov of basketball. In the club itself information about the removal from the championship they did not confirm, but also they did not refute, after saying that the official solution thus far no one assumed. In of the of club of about of withdrawing of from of the of championship is of not of confirmed of nor of refuted, saying of that a of formal of decision of yet, no of one of has. In the federation of the basketball of Russia the information so remained unconfirmed; however, the representatives OF [RFB] were intended to soon meet with the management the TsSKA (Central Sports Club of the Army) and to discuss the future of command in the championship of Russia. In of the Of basketball Of federation of Of russia in of the of same of information of remains of unconfirmed, but of the RFB of intend of shortly to of meet of with of the of leaders CSKA and discuss of the of future of of the of team of championship in Of russia. Source: http://news.sportbox.ru/ Source: http://news.sportbox.ru/



_________________
www.silverstarsnation.com
www.beckyhammon25.com
Avatar...August 21, 2010 River Walk...Hammonites partying w/ Becky...AWESOME NIGHT!
bullsky



Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 20122



Back to top
PostPosted: 11/24/08 11:46 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So where will the players go?



_________________
"Don't do something until you get it right, do it until you can't do it wrong."
- Geno Auriemma
HotForHammon



Joined: 04 Jul 2007
Posts: 5008
Location: Hammonite Nation


Back to top
PostPosted: 11/24/08 11:53 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

bullsky wrote:
So where will the players go?


They have to find new teams.
We had feeling it was comming yesterday. Some of our Russian members reported Becky and her parents went out after the game yesterday and she told them she would likely be leaving the club soon then gave over her signed shoes and posed for pics and signed autographs for the members of her Russian fan site that traveled to the game. It sounded like a goodbye.



_________________
www.silverstarsnation.com
www.beckyhammon25.com
Avatar...August 21, 2010 River Walk...Hammonites partying w/ Becky...AWESOME NIGHT!
Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 17779
Location: London


Back to top
PostPosted: 11/24/08 2:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hope Becky got most of that money in her Russia/CSKA deal guaranteed by the Russian Federation rather than the club. Otherwise she might be missing out on some of that cash that was such a large part of the discussion for the last year or so.


baker10



Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 2560
Location: California


Back to top
PostPosted: 11/24/08 2:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
Hope Becky got most of that money in her Russia/CSKA deal guaranteed by the Russian Federation rather than the club. Otherwise she might be missing out on some of that cash that was such a large part of the discussion for the last year or so.


If she didn't get her money upfront than it sounds like the russians used the contract to get her to play in the olympics for a very small amount.


HotForHammon



Joined: 04 Jul 2007
Posts: 5008
Location: Hammonite Nation


Back to top
PostPosted: 11/24/08 2:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CSKA is done with Euroleage too. From a very reliable source. There will be no game Wednesday and the Americans are all heading home this week.



_________________
www.silverstarsnation.com
www.beckyhammon25.com
Avatar...August 21, 2010 River Walk...Hammonites partying w/ Becky...AWESOME NIGHT!
amaha05



Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 798



Back to top
PostPosted: 11/24/08 3:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

baker10 wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
Hope Becky got most of that money in her Russia/CSKA deal guaranteed by the Russian Federation rather than the club. Otherwise she might be missing out on some of that cash that was such a large part of the discussion for the last year or so.


If she didn't get her money upfront than it sounds like the russians used the contract to get her to play in the olympics for a very small amount.


I was thinking the same thing when this thread began.



_________________
I Don't know why they want to Test Me they Know I'm from Jersey... DeMya Walker July 18, 2004
Big Girls Rule...

I'd rather be trapped in someone else's dutch oven than deal with the "breath of fresh air" Gavin Newsom would bring to Sacramento.
That's change NO-ONE can believe in.
internationalbball



Joined: 10 Mar 2005
Posts: 122



Back to top
PostPosted: 11/24/08 3:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

baker10 wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
Hope Becky got most of that money in her Russia/CSKA deal guaranteed by the Russian Federation rather than the club. Otherwise she might be missing out on some of that cash that was such a large part of the discussion for the last year or so.


If she didn't get her money upfront than it sounds like the russians used the contract to get her to play in the olympics for a very small amount.


Richyvv no contract in russia is gauranteed at all you you would be going
through russian courts for years and would never see a dime.


shrrew



Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 6098
Location: Missouri


Back to top
PostPosted: 11/24/08 4:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hearing Dynamo Moscow is next.................. waaahhhh! Crying or Very sad



_________________
(shrrew)
Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 17779
Location: London


Back to top
PostPosted: 11/24/08 6:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

internationalbball wrote:
baker10 wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
Hope Becky got most of that money in her Russia/CSKA deal guaranteed by the Russian Federation rather than the club. Otherwise she might be missing out on some of that cash that was such a large part of the discussion for the last year or so.


If she didn't get her money upfront than it sounds like the russians used the contract to get her to play in the olympics for a very small amount.


Richyvv no contract in russia is gauranteed at all you you would be going
through russian courts for years and would never see a dime.


Yeah, I appreciate that no standard club contract is remotely guaranteed - if the club goes under you're screwed. But Hammon signed a combined deal with CSKA Moscow and the Russian Basketball Federation, so if she's got a really smart agent they could've got it guaranteed by the national association (who were unlikely to ever go under). Chances are though, she'll get fully paid for last season and the whole Olympic exercise, and then just miss out on this season's salary.

Anyway, I'm sure there are still contracts out there for players the caliber of those on CSKA's roster. Hell, there's a couple of them who could just fall back on catwalk work to make a few bucks Smile.


eurobasket



Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 670



Back to top
PostPosted: 11/24/08 9:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I have always been told when dealing with countries in Eastern Europen for Basketball it is important to get your money up front as they promise a lot and have a history of delivering.

It will be very difficult to win anything in the courts as the process will just go on for years and years.

I guess the advisers of Becky are aware of all of this and would have madeot sure she got what due to her for her Olympic appearance.

As she was not sure about EuroBasket according to the press I am not sure she will be able to get anything more out of the Russian Federation unless she plays.

With her Russian Passport she can join any other team in the Russian SuperLeague without effecting the quota off overseas Players and still be well paid.
eurobasket



Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 670



Back to top
PostPosted: 11/26/08 7:48 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

As mentioned previously Dynamo Moscow is also in trouble.

The other teams also not paying players at the moment from the mens league are:

CSK VVS, Khimki and Triumph Lyubertsy.


So it not only women's basketball
Actionled



Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 46
Location: Madrid (Spain)


Back to top
PostPosted: 11/26/08 11:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

somebody said that was good for WNBA, because players will earn more money in the States now...but this isn't true.

Everywhere in Europe (not only in Russia) you can earn much more money than in the States...Spain, Italy...France, Israel...they pay a lot...the problem of Russian League is that they pay much, much, much more than the others. But In Spain there are players earning 200.000 Euros per Season (10 months) Wink


caune



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 17571
Location: Valley of the Bun


Back to top
PostPosted: 11/26/08 11:48 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Actionled wrote:
somebody said that was good for WNBA, because players will earn more money in the States now...but this isn't true.




It would be good because the players would be here at the start of training camp making for a better season of basketball in the W.
Of course they'll all be fighting each other for those broadcasting jobs in the W's off season Wink but that's not necessarily bad if it get's some of the existing ones off our screens Laughing



_________________
Because there is only one Diana Taurasi.
@Phoenix Mercury
Actionled



Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 46
Location: Madrid (Spain)


Back to top
PostPosted: 11/26/08 12:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think Spain will be the place for most of them in January. In fact some of them already know Spanish League.


norwester



Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 5238
Location: Seattle


Back to top
PostPosted: 11/26/08 12:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Actionled wrote:
somebody said that was good for WNBA, because players will earn more money in the States now...but this isn't true.

Everywhere in Europe (not only in Russia) you can earn much more money than in the States...Spain, Italy...France, Israel...they pay a lot...the problem of Russian League is that they pay much, much, much more than the others. But In Spain there are players earning 200.000 Euros per Season (10 months) Wink


Yeah, but how much more is that really than the WNBA? 4 months in WNBA = $100,000 (though, granted, not everyone makes the max, so for rookies, etc. the difference is greater). 10 months (just over double the amount of playing time) in Euroleague=$200,000 Euros. Right now a Euro is about $1.28. So if you normalize it per month, you're looking at approximately $25K/month in the W, and $25,600/month in EL. Not a giant difference, if you ask me. Certainly not the rumored "much more" money everyone is so fond of throwing around.

Though on the other hand, it likely is much more money than they'd make just hanging around working a different job in the States or training in the off-season.



_________________
Don't you know the plural of "anecdote" is "data"?
caune



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 17571
Location: Valley of the Bun


Back to top
PostPosted: 11/26/08 1:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Actionled wrote:
I think Spain will be the place for most of them in January. In fact some of them already know Spanish League.


and the Spanish food and weather beat Russia all to hell!
Laughing



_________________
Because there is only one Diana Taurasi.
@Phoenix Mercury
root_thing



Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 2228
Location: Underground


Back to top
PostPosted: 11/26/08 2:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The bad economy that hit the Russian League will hit everyone else too. With corporations doing badly, you can expect teams in the other foreign leagues to lose sponsorships too. That means some teams will fold and the remaining teams will pay less. For the WNBA, you will see lower attendance and possibly contraction for the weaker franchises. You may also see other less drastic budget cutting moves like teams carrying fewer players even if they have the cap space. It's hard to imagine how this won't hurt all leagues in some way.

Obviously, this filters down to the players. I get no joy from seeing the players lose opportunities -- even if it benefits the WNBA. These are top-notch athletes, and I'm glad they can go overseas to supplement their income. If they didn't have that opportunity, I suspect some of them would stop playing. Not many, but a few who are good academically and could go into a profession might end up making more money outside of basketball. Then, what's to say leaving isn't the better choice?



_________________
Skylar before she became controversial.
RedEqualsLuck



Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 4775



Back to top
PostPosted: 11/26/08 2:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

IIRC, the Russian "boom" was because they were ego-teams, not businesses... what may bode well for the W is it's strick adherence to a salary cap...

Other fallouts -- salaries lower across Europe. More players vying for fewer spots. Less change a player who might improve by playing abroad actually doing so (?).

For the W - it's secure, more europeans etc. coming over looking to suplement their now decreased income. Perhaps player pressure to modify the international schedule to better address the requirements of the W??

all pure speculation, of course....



_________________
When Jefferson wrote: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal," he didn't include the word "except."
eurobasket



Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 670



Back to top
PostPosted: 11/26/08 4:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

A lot of the clubs in the established leagues work to predefined budgets and would find it difficult to move out of that ranges. They are not many players earning 200,000 Euro perseason in Spain. You just have to check out the budgets of these clubs.

In order for clubs to bring in the players from the Russian, Leagues they will have to release players currently on contract. One thing is for sure that will not be paid what they got in Russia.

Spain also has a quota for non EC players that they respect so they cannot sign players just to sit on the bench.

Also as previously mentioned, Sponsorship is hard enough for women's sport without the current financial crisis. So they will not be an increase in payment to the players.

They are clubs outside of the big leagues that may decide to pay the big bucks for these players but these teams are not in the EuroLeague or even in the EuroCup


Last edited by eurobasket on 11/26/08 4:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
HotForHammon



Joined: 04 Jul 2007
Posts: 5008
Location: Hammonite Nation


Back to top
PostPosted: 11/26/08 4:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
The bad economy that hit the Russian League will hit everyone else too. With corporations doing badly, you can expect teams in the other foreign leagues to lose sponsorships too. That means some teams will fold and the remaining teams will pay less. For the WNBA, you will see lower attendance and possibly contraction for the weaker franchises. You may also see other less drastic budget cutting moves like teams carrying fewer players even if they have the cap space. It's hard to imagine how this won't hurt all leagues in some way.


You have a good point here. I'm not sure about other organization around the league but this has been addressed several times already in our local media by Spurs Sports & Entertainment in how the econemy will effect all of it's teams. If you can believe the articles it something they started planning for over the summer. They did some internal restructuring and streamlining to help get through this accoroding to a recent Business Journal article. Not because they had to but because they expected a drop in ticket sales due to the ecomeny. We are already seeing the effects of this in ticket sales. Ticket brokers are stuck with more then half their inventory and selling at half face value because the organization planned some amazing ticket packages and discounts for Spurs games. They are doing the same with the Rampage hockey team and I would expect to see similar marketing for the Silver Stars. This will effect all sports eventually.



_________________
www.silverstarsnation.com
www.beckyhammon25.com
Avatar...August 21, 2010 River Walk...Hammonites partying w/ Becky...AWESOME NIGHT!
Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 17779
Location: London


Back to top
PostPosted: 11/26/08 6:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
The bad economy that hit the Russian League will hit everyone else too. With corporations doing badly, you can expect teams in the other foreign leagues to lose sponsorships too. That means some teams will fold and the remaining teams will pay less. For the WNBA, you will see lower attendance and possibly contraction for the weaker franchises. You may also see other less drastic budget cutting moves like teams carrying fewer players even if they have the cap space. It's hard to imagine how this won't hurt all leagues in some way.

I doubt you'll see much of that, because the WNBA has something that no European league can have (because it's probably illegal) - a salary cap minimum. For example, next season, the most each WNBA team is allowed to spend on player salary is $803,000; the least they are allowed to spend is $694,000. I think most teams will feel like spending a bit more, and potentially being in a playoff race and/or having a half-decent team, is worth that bit of extra cash. It's not a big enough saving to be worth intentionally under-spending.

In Europe, on the other hand, teams can restrict themselves to only spending as much as they can bring in via sponsorship, ticket sales, owner investment etc. If you only make 50,000 Euros per season then that's all you spend on players, or you're screwed. If it means the team is going to suck then that's tough luck, because that's all the money that there is to spend.


PattyforPresident



Joined: 25 Sep 2008
Posts: 935



Back to top
PostPosted: 11/26/08 8:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:

I doubt you'll see much of that, because the WNBA has something that no European league can have (because it's probably illegal) - a salary cap minimum. For example, next season, the most each WNBA team is allowed to spend on player salary is $803,000; the least they are allowed to spend is $694,000. I think most teams will feel like spending a bit more, and potentially being in a playoff race and/or having a half-decent team, is worth that bit of extra cash. It's not a big enough saving to be worth intentionally under-spending.


Absolutely. Especially with the new influx of Russians trying to make a living. That extra $100,000 could mean a championship. Interest in the W isn't high, so if teams suck, it's going to hurt the bottom line a lot more. Conversely, a championship could generate huge buzz. So could a delicious PG like Ilona Korstin. Plus, team owners are so rich that it's really nothing. The economic downturn is having an effect on everybody, but it isn't killing Mr. Dolan. You've seen the Knicks payroll. $95,000 to sign Maria Stepanova would be like you or me buying a pack of gum.


root_thing



Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 2228
Location: Underground


Back to top
PostPosted: 11/26/08 10:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PattyforPresident wrote:
Richyyy wrote:

I doubt you'll see much of that, because the WNBA has something that no European league can have (because it's probably illegal) - a salary cap minimum. For example, next season, the most each WNBA team is allowed to spend on player salary is $803,000; the least they are allowed to spend is $694,000. I think most teams will feel like spending a bit more, and potentially being in a playoff race and/or having a half-decent team, is worth that bit of extra cash. It's not a big enough saving to be worth intentionally under-spending.


Absolutely. Especially with the new influx of Russians trying to make a living. That extra $100,000 could mean a championship. Interest in the W isn't high, so if teams suck, it's going to hurt the bottom line a lot more. Conversely, a championship could generate huge buzz. So could a delicious PG like Ilona Korstin. Plus, team owners are so rich that it's really nothing. The economic downturn is having an effect on everybody, but it isn't killing Mr. Dolan. You've seen the Knicks payroll. $95,000 to sign Maria Stepanova would be like you or me buying a pack of gum.


First of all, no one else in the WNBA (or NBA) is as profligate as Dolan and Cablevision. Besides, Dolan doesn't treat the Liberty like the Knicks. People need to stop comparing the WNBA to the NBA. You had a local furniture store guy as owner of the Comets. There are other ownership groups made up of rich but not super-rich people. They likely own businesses that are struggling and/or hold assets such as stock and real estate that are worth significantly less than at the beginning of the year. If your income has decreased and your assets are worth 40% less, suddenly subsidizing a money-losing basketball team may feel like a burden. Then, you'd be surprised at the petty things people will do -- if not out of necessity, then out of frustration or as a symbolic gesture.

Secondly, if you're out of the race early and attendance is way down, then that $100,000 savings may start to look more tempting. We're not talking about cutting players in your rotation -- it's the 11th, 12th or 13th player who gets dropped. IR players don't even suit up, so if cash is tight, a team might wait until an injury occurs to add that extra player.



_________________
Skylar before she became controversial.
PattyforPresident



Joined: 25 Sep 2008
Posts: 935



Back to top
PostPosted: 11/27/08 11:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
PattyforPresident wrote:
Richyyy wrote:

I doubt you'll see much of that, because the WNBA has something that no European league can have (because it's probably illegal) - a salary cap minimum. For example, next season, the most each WNBA team is allowed to spend on player salary is $803,000; the least they are allowed to spend is $694,000. I think most teams will feel like spending a bit more, and potentially being in a playoff race and/or having a half-decent team, is worth that bit of extra cash. It's not a big enough saving to be worth intentionally under-spending.


Absolutely. Especially with the new influx of Russians trying to make a living. That extra $100,000 could mean a championship. Interest in the W isn't high, so if teams suck, it's going to hurt the bottom line a lot more. Conversely, a championship could generate huge buzz. So could a delicious PG like Ilona Korstin. Plus, team owners are so rich that it's really nothing. The economic downturn is having an effect on everybody, but it isn't killing Mr. Dolan. You've seen the Knicks payroll. $95,000 to sign Maria Stepanova would be like you or me buying a pack of gum.


First of all, no one else in the WNBA (or NBA) is as profligate as Dolan and Cablevision. Besides, Dolan doesn't treat the Liberty like the Knicks. People need to stop comparing the WNBA to the NBA. You had a local furniture store guy as owner of the Comets. There are other ownership groups made up of rich but not super-rich people. They likely own businesses that are struggling and/or hold assets such as stock and real estate that are worth significantly less than at the beginning of the year. If your income has decreased and your assets are worth 40% less, suddenly subsidizing a money-losing basketball team may feel like a burden. Then, you'd be surprised at the petty things people will do -- if not out of necessity, then out of frustration or as a symbolic gesture.

Secondly, if you're out of the race early and attendance is way down, then that $100,000 savings may start to look more tempting. We're not talking about cutting players in your rotation -- it's the 11th, 12th or 13th player who gets dropped. IR players don't even suit up, so if cash is tight, a team might wait until an injury occurs to add that extra player.


Just because the market is down 40% from it's very highest point, doesn't mean every business and every person is worth (and making) 40% less. Businesses actually do still conduct business, they don't just rely on the stock market to make money based on past business. The typical WNBA owner can absolutely afford the extra $100,000 and it is like purchasing a pack of gum for you and me. Hilton Koch is the exception. Get ready for the facts about who these people really are and not empty speculation. Dolan is certainly not making as much money as the Mohegan Tribe. The Maloofs... you think they're starving? The Simons? Seems they own half the malls in the country. My mall (a Simon mall) doesn't have any empty stores and expansion plans are still in the works. Glen Taylor? $2.7 billion personal net worth. Sheila Johnson had to pick between electricity and running water last month too, right? William Davidson gave $30 million to his alma mater. You think $100,000 is really troubling him right now? You should have done your homework. Just because Dolan is the most out there and the most well known doesn't mean he's only one worth serious money. The aforementioned are all (still) billionaires. The Spurs ownership group owns the Silver Stars and they've obviously got the $100K too. The economic downturn is NOT killing any of them. Terwilliger and Alter are in real estate, an industry that has been slow at best of late, but they're not struggling. They're also so committed to their teams that they've both publicly stated that taking a loss is okay with them. The female owners in PHX, LA and SEA are worth a lot less money, I'm sure, but they're women and all seem very passionate and will probably be equally committed.

It's important to have a few extra players on your roster so you have subs in practice. The 11th, 12th and 13th players are already on the block to bring in the potential Europeans in search of secure, paying jobs. The extra $100,000 must be spent early to secure the best player newly available. You have to generate a buzz to make money in the W. It's worth $100,000 to win games and sell tickets and build for the future. To succeed in business you have to take risks and spend money. The smart owners are good businessmen who know this. Hilton Koch isn't smart. That's why the league took his team.


root_thing



Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 2228
Location: Underground


Back to top
PostPosted: 11/28/08 12:44 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PattyforPresident wrote:

Just because the market is down 40% from it's very highest point, doesn't mean every business and every person is worth (and making) 40% less. Businesses actually do still conduct business, they don't just rely on the stock market to make money based on past business. The typical WNBA owner can absolutely afford the extra $100,000 and it is like purchasing a pack of gum for you and me. Hilton Koch is the exception. Get ready for the facts about who these people really are and not empty speculation. Dolan is certainly not making as much money as the Mohegan Tribe. The Maloofs... you think they're starving? The Simons? Seems they own half the malls in the country. My mall (a Simon mall) doesn't have any empty stores and expansion plans are still in the works. Glen Taylor? $2.7 billion personal net worth. Sheila Johnson had to pick between electricity and running water last month too, right? William Davidson gave $30 million to his alma mater. You think $100,000 is really troubling him right now? You should have done your homework. Just because Dolan is the most out there and the most well known doesn't mean he's only one worth serious money. The aforementioned are all (still) billionaires. The Spurs ownership group owns the Silver Stars and they've obviously got the $100K too. The economic downturn is NOT killing any of them. Terwilliger and Alter are in real estate, an industry that has been slow at best of late, but they're not struggling. They're also so committed to their teams that they've both publicly stated that taking a loss is okay with them. The female owners in PHX, LA and SEA are worth a lot less money, I'm sure, but they're women and all seem very passionate and will probably be equally committed.

It's important to have a few extra players on your roster so you have subs in practice. The 11th, 12th and 13th players are already on the block to bring in the potential Europeans in search of secure, paying jobs. The extra $100,000 must be spent early to secure the best player newly available. You have to generate a buzz to make money in the W. It's worth $100,000 to win games and sell tickets and build for the future. To succeed in business you have to take risks and spend money. The smart owners are good businessmen who know this. Hilton Koch isn't smart. That's why the league took his team.


If we haven't learned anything else through this financial crisis, we've learned that businesses always tell you they are financially sound until the day they suddenly collapse. Bear, Stearns? Lehman Brothers? AIG? All doing fine until they weren't. There is an impending commercial real estate crisis, and malls are among the most vulnerable assets. Also, if you follow hotel and casino stocks, you'd know that industry is having a crisis. These are capital-intensive businesses during the middle of a credit crunch. I'm not going to argue about specific situations. I never said all owners would reduce players, nor did I ever mention that they wouldn't pursue a quality player if available. My greater point was that the world economic crisis would affect all leagues -- including the WNBA. You don't have to get wiped out to feel the pinch. The effect is psychological. If you're wise, you cut back sooner rather than later. I used to be the finance director of a prominent non-profit dance company. Our board was full of millionaires, but it didn't mean they would throw money at the company with impugnity whenever we were in trouble. I'm sure those Russian millionaires who are bailing out of teams overseas aren't starving either. But when people pull back, they often cut across the board. And if these WNBA owners are so universally willing to spend, why is the salary cap only $803,000? More to the point, why is there a payroll minimum written into the CBA? Doesn't that tell you that the players union or the league office is afraid that some owner will spend even less than $694,000?



_________________
Skylar before she became controversial.
PattyforPresident



Joined: 25 Sep 2008
Posts: 935



Back to top
PostPosted: 11/28/08 12:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
PattyforPresident wrote:

Just because the market is down 40% from it's very highest point, doesn't mean every business and every person is worth (and making) 40% less. Businesses actually do still conduct business, they don't just rely on the stock market to make money based on past business. The typical WNBA owner can absolutely afford the extra $100,000 and it is like purchasing a pack of gum for you and me. Hilton Koch is the exception. Get ready for the facts about who these people really are and not empty speculation. Dolan is certainly not making as much money as the Mohegan Tribe. The Maloofs... you think they're starving? The Simons? Seems they own half the malls in the country. My mall (a Simon mall) doesn't have any empty stores and expansion plans are still in the works. Glen Taylor? $2.7 billion personal net worth. Sheila Johnson had to pick between electricity and running water last month too, right? William Davidson gave $30 million to his alma mater. You think $100,000 is really troubling him right now? You should have done your homework. Just because Dolan is the most out there and the most well known doesn't mean he's only one worth serious money. The aforementioned are all (still) billionaires. The Spurs ownership group owns the Silver Stars and they've obviously got the $100K too. The economic downturn is NOT killing any of them. Terwilliger and Alter are in real estate, an industry that has been slow at best of late, but they're not struggling. They're also so committed to their teams that they've both publicly stated that taking a loss is okay with them. The female owners in PHX, LA and SEA are worth a lot less money, I'm sure, but they're women and all seem very passionate and will probably be equally committed.

It's important to have a few extra players on your roster so you have subs in practice. The 11th, 12th and 13th players are already on the block to bring in the potential Europeans in search of secure, paying jobs. The extra $100,000 must be spent early to secure the best player newly available. You have to generate a buzz to make money in the W. It's worth $100,000 to win games and sell tickets and build for the future. To succeed in business you have to take risks and spend money. The smart owners are good businessmen who know this. Hilton Koch isn't smart. That's why the league took his team.


If we haven't learned anything else through this financial crisis, we've learned that businesses always tell you they are financially sound until the day they suddenly collapse. Bear, Stearns? Lehman Brothers? AIG? All doing fine until they weren't. There is an impending commercial real estate crisis, and malls are among the most vulnerable assets. Also, if you follow hotel and casino stocks, you'd know that industry is having a crisis. These are capital-intensive businesses during the middle of a credit crunch. I'm not going to argue about specific situations. I never said all owners would reduce players, nor did I ever mention that they wouldn't pursue a quality player if available. My greater point was that the world economic crisis would affect all leagues -- including the WNBA. You don't have to get wiped out to feel the pinch. The effect is psychological. If you're wise, you cut back sooner rather than later. I used to be the finance director of a prominent non-profit dance company. Our board was full of millionaires, but it didn't mean they would throw money at the company with impugnity whenever we were in trouble. I'm sure those Russian millionaires who are bailing out of teams overseas aren't starving either. But when people pull back, they often cut across the board. And if these WNBA owners are so universally willing to spend, why is the salary cap only $803,000? More to the point, why is there a payroll minimum written into the CBA? Doesn't that tell you that the players union or the league office is afraid that some owner will spend even less than $694,000?


Of course it tells me that they're afraid someone will spend less than $694,000. Let's not talk about what could be. Let's talk about what is. The owners can't spend less than that, so it doesn't matter. And the reason that the difference IS only $100,000 is to make it less of a stretch to a billionaire team owner to max out his salary cap. To be fair, don't all American sports leagues with salary caps also have minimum salary? It's for protection of the league and its teams. The Russian owners are spending a lot more money, making a lot less money, and currently struggling more than these W owners because of various circumstances (among them, being idiots and throwing a lot of money into ego projects that aren't going to make the money back). It's my opinion that an owner (a billionaire businessman or very rich women who doesn't want anything more than to push women to the point where they are equal to men) is more likely to say, if they feel this way, "fuck it, I'm not putting another dime into this pit that is the WNBA, you guys take the team and figure it out" or, "hey, any of you girls around here wanna put together an ownership group and buy a profitless sports franchise on the cheap that you can use to promote your feminist agenda if you feel so inclinced" than to save a mere $100,000 when he/she/they could be signing better players and selling tickets. People on the smaller scale in those industries you mentioned are certainly in trouble. Not the tycoons. Cablevision is pretty much invincible. Most people aren't cutting TV yet. The others are owned by the person. The other thing we've learned is that, a business might be in trouble, but the idiots at the top are trimming fat from the bottom and still giving themselves raises and giant bonuses. These are the people who own teams. Nobody's afraid they're going to cut the salaries on their NBA teams to the minimum. I'm not comparing, but there's a reason NBA owners who own W teams are still NBA owners who own W teams. They want them, or are intrigued by what could be, at least a little bit. All the losses are being written off anyway. It's crazy to assume they're just going to save $100,000 when they could throw their hands up and run, like Bob Johnson (another billionaire who wasn't interested in saving $100,000 when he could just up and quit).


Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index » WNBA All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB 2.0.17 © 2001- 2004 phpBB Group
phpBB Template by Vjacheslav Trushkin