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So has anyone's opinion on McCarville changed?

 
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dtsnms



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PostPosted: 12/15/04 10:11 am    ::: So has anyone's opinion on McCarville changed? Reply Reply with quote

I was very impressed with the shape she was in, the passing, the shot, and the footwork.

However, Fowles made her look silly sometimes on offense, Janel trying to get around/through her.

I have more confidence she'll be a solid pro prospect now, but I still think she's going to be in big trouble against the mobile, athletic bigs in the WNBA.

That said, I'll take her on the Sun.


womens_hoops



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PostPosted: 12/15/04 10:54 am    ::: Re: So has anyone's opinion on McCarville changed? Reply Reply with quote

Fowles rejected her two or three times and did a good job defending. But McCarville also beat her a bunch of times. In the first half, eg, Janel scored over or around her the first 3 times she got the ball with Sylvia on her.

Janel had a much bigger line -- more points, rebounds, assists, steals -- but that was partly because she had Willis on her for about 10 minutes, and Willis (who I thought was supposed to be a good defender) couldn't handle her at all.

Sylvia also did an excellent job denying Janel the ball and deflecting some passes into the post. That was more the fault of our guards, who are simply terrible at feeding the post.

LSU rarely posted up Fowles directly on Janel, so it's hard to tell how the low post matchup went on the other end. Most of Fowles points came when LSU guards would beat our guards, Janel would help, and Fowles would be left for a layup, or more often, an easy offensive rebound and put-back.

So all in all, I'd say the low post matchup between the two of them was about a draw. I'd give the slight edge to Janel, but I'll go back and watch the game tape again today to rethink.

Of course, the low post matchup isn't really a fair comparison. Fowles at 6'6" is a pure center, a pure low post power player (which is not to say she isn't athletic, because she is). As I said in the last debate, Janel isn't that at all.

As you saw last night, Janel often initiates our offense from the top of the key, in a high center set. She (sadly) is a better passer than any of our guards, so she often feeds the other post players.

Also, in on of our bread and butter plays, Janel gets fed at the high post, elbow or elbow extended, and then the rest of the team cuts around her.

In short, Janel does a lot more than just get in the low post and score, because we need her to. Right now, Fowles doesn't play any of those roles for her team. For an overall game comparison right now -- taking into account both the low post action but also everything else -- Janel is far more versatile and valuable.

As far as the W... I continue to assume that Janel will be a PF in the W while Fowles will be a center. They probably won't matchup much there, and I doubt that Janel will very often have to face people who are 6'6" at PF.

Finally, I hope last night put to rest the idea that McCarville is slow. Take a look at those two moves in the second half where, standing at the elbow, she ball-faked left then took two steps right to the rim. Not many bigs can do that.


womens_hoops



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PostPosted: 12/15/04 10:58 am    ::: Re: So has anyone's opinion on McCarville changed? Reply Reply with quote

but let me add one more thing --

If you ask who will be the better WNBA player in 7-8 years between McCarville and Fowles, the answer is Fowles. She is simply an amazing specimen. Huge, strong, and can jump. And she already looks like she's playing smarter than she was when I saw her in the Baylor game. Even as a green freshman, her talent looks limitless.

I think McCarville will be a good or very good WNBA player. I think Fowles will be an All-Star and a potential MVP.


ILuvCatch



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PostPosted: 12/15/04 11:20 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
Finally, I hope last night put to rest the idea that McCarville is slow. Take a look at those two moves in the second half where, standing at the elbow, she ball-faked left then took two steps right to the rim. Not many bigs can do that.


Who was the last player down the court 95% of the time? That's where she is slow.


womens_hoops



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PostPosted: 12/15/04 11:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ILuvCatch wrote:

Who was the last player down the court 95% of the time? That's where she is slow.


Well, she's not the last one down the court when getting back on D. She's often the last person down the court on offense, but there are reasons for that:

1. she often inbounds the ball.
2. she often sets back-court or half-court screens to free our point guard (who has trouble getting the ball up the court).
3. we often initiate our offense with her at the high center, so she's supposed to be the last one down the court.


KeiraNY



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PostPosted: 12/15/04 11:32 am    ::: Re: So has anyone's opinion on McCarville changed? Reply Reply with quote

I think McCarville is a fine college player. In the W she'll be eaten allive by the likes of LL, TT, Yo and yes even Tari Phillips. I'm not really concerned about her being the 'last one' to cross the half court mark, since centers usually end up as the trailer, however, almost (if not all) every center in the league can probably outrunner.

I have nothing against McCarville...if she stays in shape and keeps her work ethic she can potentially be a banger. If she gets lazy, she'll be another Tausha Mills: slow and slow and did I mention, slow??




dtsnms wrote:
I was very impressed with the shape she was in, the passing, the shot, and the footwork.

However, Fowles made her look silly sometimes on offense, Janel trying to get around/through her.

I have more confidence she'll be a solid pro prospect now, but I still think she's going to be in big trouble against the mobile, athletic bigs in the WNBA.

That said, I'll take her on the Sun.


womens_hoops



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PostPosted: 12/15/04 11:39 am    ::: Re: So has anyone's opinion on McCarville changed? Reply Reply with quote

did you watch the second half last night, Keira? did you see the plays when McCarville schooled her defender at the elbow, and was at the rim before anyone could help? did she look slow to you then?


gumption72



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PostPosted: 12/15/04 11:42 am    ::: Janel... the number one pick? Reply Reply with quote

Of course I have always thought Janel has that magic in her game... I sometimes wonder if she would be a different player if she had started playing before she was 14. I also wonder if she will actually choose to go into the WNBA. She is such a hard-headed yet 'take it or leave it' girl.

Were there any other incredibly talented girls who chose not to go into the WNBA when they were one of the top picks? And why didn't they?

By the way, did you see how Stacy Dales-Schuman actually called Janel THE number one pick? Did I hear that wrong? I better rewind and watch that again!


pilight



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PostPosted: 12/15/04 12:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

My opinion is unchanged.

Nobody is denying that she's a fine college player. Her pro prospects are another matter entirely.



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KeiraNY



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PostPosted: 12/15/04 12:47 pm    ::: Re: So has anyone's opinion on McCarville changed? Reply Reply with quote

Women's hoops:

Don't make me the bad guy here...I'm not saying anything personally negative towards Janel. I KNOW she's a fine college player, but do you actually see Janel beating Lisa Leslie to the hoop?? Do you see her leaving Tina Thompson in the dust?? How about banging up against Cheryl Ford?? Cause I certainly don't. That's not to say she won't make it in the W or anything like that. The vets will eat her up...is all!!



womens_hoops wrote:
did you watch the second half last night, Keira? did you see the plays when McCarville schooled her defender at the elbow, and was at the rim before anyone could help? did she look slow to you then?


womens_hoops



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PostPosted: 12/15/04 12:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
My opinion is unchanged.

Nobody is denying that she's a fine college player. Her pro prospects are another matter entirely.


Do you really think she's only a "fine" college player?

Last night, she had 31 points, 13 rebounds, 5 steals, 4 assists, and 3 blocks against the #1 team in the country. Other than a little help from Broback, she was basically alone out there all night.

She was given the jobs of: running our offense, creating the open shots for everyone on the floor (since no one else can create their own), helping on d when our guards got beat (every time), and both defending and posting up against a preternaturally talented player 4 inches taller than she.

And she did it all well.

Yes, her pro prospects are another matter entirely. But I'll ask the same question I asked last time -- is she better than Tamika Williams? The answer is obvious.


dtsnms



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PostPosted: 12/15/04 12:57 pm    ::: Re: So has anyone's opinion on McCarville changed? Reply Reply with quote

KeiraNY wrote:
Women's hoops:

Don't make me the bad guy here...I'm not saying anything personally negative towards Janel. I KNOW she's a fine college player, but do you actually see Janel beating Lisa Leslie to the hoop?? Do you see her leaving Tina Thompson in the dust?? How about banging up against Cheryl Ford?? Cause I certainly don't. That's not to say she won't make it in the W or anything like that. The vets will eat her up...is all!!




Keira I don't think wh is making you the bad guy. We already know your rotten, dissing poor Blaze and trying to steal poor little Mique. Laughing

Seriously, I thought your comments were pretty accurate too. It's not the centers like LL, and for that matter Fowles that concern me about Janel's journey to stardom. It's Cheryl Ford, Delisha Milton, TT, Tamika Williams, etc. that I think are so quick at the four.

I'd like to have Janel as a role player, but I don't know about her being much more than that. I know I'll incur the wrath of the Minnesota fans, but I'm not sure who on the Sun I would be willing to give up for her (ignoring the unrestricted players). If it was one vs. the other, I'm not sure I would even give up Asjha for her, having seen upside in AJ this year.


womens_hoops



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PostPosted: 12/15/04 1:03 pm    ::: Re: So has anyone's opinion on McCarville changed? Reply Reply with quote

KeiraNY wrote:
Women's hoops:

Don't make me the bad guy here...I'm not saying anything personally negative towards Janel. I KNOW she's a fine college player, but do you actually see Janel beating Lisa Leslie to the hoop?? Do you see her leaving Tina Thompson in the dust?? How about banging up against Cheryl Ford?? Cause I certainly don't. That's not to say she won't make it in the W or anything like that. The vets will eat her up...is all!!


Oh, bad guy nothing. I'm the bad guy, always.

There is, as I have said before, ample reason to criticize aspects of McCarville's game and to question her ability to move up to the pros. But the criticism that she is "slow" is just the mindless repetition of an old reputation. The only people who say that are people who haven't seen her play, at least in the last 3 years.

You asked me last time the exact same question -- do I think she will beat the crap out of Leslie, Thompson, and Ford? I already answered -- maybe you missed it -- but here goes again anyway:

no, I don't. Those are some of the best players in the league, and Janel isn't close to that level yet. Luckily for McCarville, when she's on the court in the W, she won't be matched up with those folks very often, because she'll be more of an outside player, so the question doesn't make much sense anyway.


p_d_swanson



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PostPosted: 12/15/04 1:30 pm    ::: Re: Janel... the number one pick? Reply Reply with quote

gumption72 wrote:
By the way, did you see how Stacy Dales-Schuman actually called Janel THE number one pick? Did I hear that wrong? I better rewind and watch that again!


If the 2005 Draft were held today, McCarville would in all probability be Charlotte's choice (or that of whomever traded for the pick). Whether that's true in April remains to be seen... I'm unclear as to how Cheryl Ford is mentioned with Tina Thompson. McCarville is more athletic than Ford and has significantly better basketball skills. If that's where the bar has been placed for inclusion in the WNBA's elite, McCarville will have no problem surpassing that standard...


pilight



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PostPosted: 12/15/04 1:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

womens_hoops wrote:

Yes, her pro prospects are another matter entirely. But I'll ask the same question I asked last time -- is she better than Tamika Williams? The answer is obvious.



She's a better college player than Tamika Williams was. OTOH, Williams was the 5th best starter on her team as a senior, albeit on a team better than what Minnesota has or likely ever will have. Williams is also taller and faster than McCarville and at least as thick, those things come much more heavily into play in the W than in WCBB. In any event, Williams is just a role player and the Lynx are so impressed with her that they spent two first round picks on post players to replace her.



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womens_hoops



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PostPosted: 12/15/04 2:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Tamika is listed at 6'2" and 205 lbs. Janel is listed at 6'2", and though there's no weight official listing, she says she's 220.

I've never worked at the State Fair guessing age, height, and weight, but having seem them both up close more than a few times, I'd say those are both about accurate, other than I bet Tamika is more in the 210-220 range.

Janel carries more of it around the middle, Tamika's weight is more in the trunk.

As to speed -- well, no numbers there. If you had a sprint from one end of the court to the other, maybe Tamika wins. If you ask who has the quicker first step, the quicker drop step, the quicker pivot swing, Janel wins easily.

and let's not forget the better hands, better passing, and higher vertical. And better on-court personality.


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PostPosted: 12/15/04 2:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The Lynx only need McCarville if she is going to be 1) better than Hayden and/or 2) attendance.

If McCarville will be as good as Hayden and will bring an extra 2000 paid fans to every game, the Lynx should try and get her.


womens_hoops



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PostPosted: 12/15/04 2:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
The Lynx only need McCarville if she is going to be 1) better than Hayden and/or 2) attendance.

If McCarville will be as good as Hayden and will bring an extra 2000 paid fans to every game, the Lynx should try and get her.


she'll bring extra fans, but probably not 2,000. As our disappointing turnout last night may have proved, Minnesota basketball fans really care only about one woman, and she now plays in Connecticut.

Better than Hayden? Hard to say, especially since they're different positions. I wish we could find a way to keep Hayden (as center), Ohlde (as a combo center/PF), and get Janel (as a PF)... but that just ain't gonna happen.

Bottom line: we will not start 2005 with Janel on our team. I just hope she ends up in the West so I get to see her at least twice.


Alepp03



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PostPosted: 12/15/04 3:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I suppose I understand people's concerns with her getting up and down the court. Still, if Janel is on a team that is half-court offense oriented, then I believe she could be a great asset in a high-low post game. I think that there are ways that a team could work around her deficiencies of getting up and down the court and played to her strengths of passing the ball from the high post, using her low post moves, and rebounding. I am much more impressed with what I have seen of her in her college career than I ever was of Cheryl Ford. Get someone to keep working on Janel's conditioning and she will be a good player for a team. I would take her on Houston any day to team with Snow, moving Tina to the 3, Sheryl to the 2 and Lambert at the 1. Would I prefer Irvin? I don't know, but I would take Janel over what we got now.



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PostPosted: 12/15/04 4:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Janel at the 4? I don't know - I'm having difficulty seeing her chase LJ or TT around the perimeter.

I think she'll be a solid player but it's also indicative of how top-light this draft is (though Currie and Polk coming out will help remedy this).
MNfan22



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PostPosted: 12/15/04 10:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Interesting conversation here. I've had a real pissy wk at work & when I read this thread earlier at work some stuff didn't set well w/me. Well I've mellowed & want to post some thoughts anyway & ask a few question, so humor me ... Very Happy

womens_hoops wrote:
Tamika is listed at 6'2" and 205 lbs. Janel is listed at 6'2", and though there's no weight official listing, she says she's 220.....

and let's not forget the better hands, better passing, and higher vertical. And better on-court personality.


"A better on-court personality" ? huh ? I'm not sure what there wouldn't be to like about Tamika's "on-court" personality. I think in their own ways both are fun loving types. Fun is part of both of their natures so I'll assume you just enjoy more about Janel's gm vibe then Tamika's. I enjoy T-Dubs personality on court & on the bench. She shows her emotions, she's animated & supportive of her teammates when she's on the bench, but hey thats me.


MNfan22



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PostPosted: 12/15/04 10:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:

... In any event, Williams is just a role player ...



Just a role player. Hummm. Wasn't sure of your tone here.
My thought would be that like 85% of the players in the league are "role" players. Some are better at their "roles" then others and Tamika is one of the better one to me. Are there things she need to work improve on, of course. In her 3 season w/the Lynx she has done what was needed & done it well. As a matter of fact up until last season she would rank in my top 2 best post the Lynx have ever had, scary ah. Which brings me to the next part .....

pilight wrote:
...the Lynx are so impressed with her that they spent two first round picks on post players to replace her.


Oh come on dude, Tamika didn't get replaced, she got help ! We got 2 great post in the draft who together showed more then all the previous 'post' player the Lynx have ever had.

Prior to Tamika, Andrea Lloyd Curry, another undersized post , was one of my favs. ALC in the 1st yrs was the Jen Gillom, Vicky Bullet, Tammy Jackson old school type vet who was just more savvy then some of the other post in the league. Bad knees did her in. 3rd on my list would be Janle Burse & w/3yrs invested in her we traded her which helpeed bring in our 2 rookie post players. Only other 'post' I can remember are Maylana Martin, Val Whiting-Raymond, Van Gorp, Ketha Dickerson, help me if you can remember any others for the Lynx ? Talk about scary.

While I like J-Mac alot & think she'll be a solid 'role' player in the pros I still wouldn't trade Tamika, Nicole or Vanessa for her.


MNfan22



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PostPosted: 12/15/04 11:06 pm    ::: Will they come ? Reply Reply with quote

CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
The Lynx only need McCarville if she is going to be 1) better than Hayden and/or 2) attendance.

If McCarville will be as good as Hayden and will bring an extra 2000 paid fans to every game, the Lynx should try and get her.


I wouldn't like it if we traded V or other key players to get Janel but I could live w/it. Like WH has mentioned I don't know if she would sway 2000 more folks down to the Target center. So called "sprots fans" up here are fickle.

Just last wk there was an article in I think the Trib that last season of 41 home dates for the T-wolves, only 15 gms sold out. This was a team that had the league MVP & won more gms then they ever had. I went to 2 of the westen conf final gms vs. the Lakers & I can tell you there where seats to be had, not sold out.

It may cost me my team but I would just assume the Lynx continue to try putting the best team on the floor they can & go out trying to win a chamionship then go backwards by making moves to bring in a player (which there will only be 2) who some so called "women's b-ball fans" here can put their money where their whining has been. If folks still dont' come around ...... Confused

Ok I'm going to work off some of this pent up stress .... I'm done venting Rolling Eyes


womens_hoops



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PostPosted: 12/15/04 11:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

well, MnFan, points well taken. When I said a better personality, I just mean that JM seems to have so much fun, talks a little trash, sets some mean picks, tries for the flashy plays, plays with a lot of intensity, laughter, anger, etc. She'll go for the amazing but slightly stupid play when it's there. I like that -- I don't have anything against T Williams, but she doesn't have that kind of emotion. It's just not as much fun to watch her play.

About who's a "role player" and who isn't... I don't really care. The phrase "role player" is one of the dumbest basketball cliches. (ranks up there with "she makes everyone else better.")

Greg Anthony said the other night: "every player on the floor is a 'role player.' It's just that different players have different roles."

McGrady and Kobe's role is to take 30 shots even if they only make 40%. Bowen and Hassell's role is to play defense on the perimeter. Duncan's role is to dominate the low post. Garnett's role is to run the team. Kidd's role is to pass. Francis's role is to score off penetration. Mark Madsen's role is to hustle, go to the floor, clear space. Every player has a "role."

When people say someone is a "role player," they usually just mean that that player won't score as much. Or they just mean it as a vague insult. But saying someone is a role player doesn't really tell you anything interesting.

You can say that Tamika Williams is a "role player," but she's a damn good one. Tamika's role on the Lynx is to run the floor, get in position for open layups, and box out to protect the defensive glass. That's an important role.

Janel's role on the Gophers is to do everything, to lead the team in scoring, rebounding, assists, and steals. Obviously, in the W, she'll have a much different role. That doesn't mean she won't be valuable. If she finds the right coach and the right team, she can play a valuable role.


KeiraNY



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PostPosted: 12/16/04 12:44 pm    ::: Re: So has anyone's opinion on McCarville changed? Reply Reply with quote

Thanks DTS!! I'm rotten to the core...how dare I dis Blaze!! Blasphemy I tell ya!!! LOL!!

I still think Janel will be a role player in the W. She reminds me of an agile Summer Erb...but I really don't see her beating players like TT, D-Nasty, Ruth Riley or Yo.

Hey I can't wait for the schedule to see if another road trip to Uncasville is warranted...I loved that place!!!




dtsnms wrote:
KeiraNY wrote:
Women's hoops:

Don't make me the bad guy here...I'm not saying anything personally negative towards Janel. I KNOW she's a fine college player, but do you actually see Janel beating Lisa Leslie to the hoop?? Do you see her leaving Tina Thompson in the dust?? How about banging up against Cheryl Ford?? Cause I certainly don't. That's not to say she won't make it in the W or anything like that. The vets will eat her up...is all!!




Keira I don't think wh is making you the bad guy. We already know your rotten, dissing poor Blaze and trying to steal poor little Mique. Laughing

Seriously, I thought your comments were pretty accurate too. It's not the centers like LL, and for that matter Fowles that concern me about Janel's journey to stardom. It's Cheryl Ford, Delisha Milton, TT, Tamika Williams, etc. that I think are so quick at the four.

I'd like to have Janel as a role player, but I don't know about her being much more than that. I know I'll incur the wrath of the Minnesota fans, but I'm not sure who on the Sun I would be willing to give up for her (ignoring the unrestricted players). If it was one vs. the other, I'm not sure I would even give up Asjha for her, having seen upside in AJ this year.


dtsnms



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PostPosted: 12/16/04 1:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
Hey I can't wait for the schedule to see if another road trip to Uncasville is warranted...I loved that place!!!


We upped yesterday. Same seats, with an option for even closer if the opportunity is there.

Although I do not how much the kid has left for autographs, except for Smoovie's stuff now!


KeiraNY



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PostPosted: 12/16/04 3:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I noticed my Lib tickets are actually cheaper than last year's....which makes me very happy!!! I like my seats (I hope my neighbors renew their tickets -- aka Linda), but I like me seats...if I need an upgrade, I'll hit up Donna!! LOL!!

Speaking of which, where is Donna???




dtsnms wrote:
Quote:
Hey I can't wait for the schedule to see if another road trip to Uncasville is warranted...I loved that place!!!


We upped yesterday. Same seats, with an option for even closer if the opportunity is there.

Although I do not how much the kid has left for autographs, except for Smoovie's stuff now!


dtsnms



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PostPosted: 12/16/04 3:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

They bumped mine $5 per game higher!


BCBG25



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PostPosted: 12/16/04 10:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

KeiraNY wrote:
I noticed my Lib tickets are actually cheaper than last year's....which makes me very happy!!! I like my seats (I hope my neighbors renew their tickets -- aka Linda), but I like me seats...if I need an upgrade, I'll hit up Donna!! LOL!!

Speaking of which, where is Donna???


Last I heard from her, she was at a Club Med in Florida, but I do know that she'll be in Miami tomorrow for the Nuggets/Heat game.
I'd be cool if you all (Linda included) could be sitting in the same section, so I don't have to be all around the Garden to complain about the team and the refs lol



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KeiraNY



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PostPosted: 12/17/04 10:09 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hey Mel...you know the seat next to mine is almostalways empty. My friend Cheryl from DC can't make it to all the games...so you're more than welcome to come by if they ban you from Donna's section Smile

I wish I could be Donna's neighbor but I can't afford those seats. It's always fun to yell at Bill Laimbeer and the rest of the visiting team Wink




BCBG25 wrote:
KeiraNY wrote:
I noticed my Lib tickets are actually cheaper than last year's....which makes me very happy!!! I like my seats (I hope my neighbors renew their tickets -- aka Linda), but I like me seats...if I need an upgrade, I'll hit up Donna!! LOL!!

Speaking of which, where is Donna???


Last I heard from her, she was at a Club Med in Florida, but I do know that she'll be in Miami tomorrow for the Nuggets/Heat game.
I'd be cool if you all (Linda included) could be sitting in the same section, so I don't have to be all around the Garden to complain about the team and the refs lol


fang



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PostPosted: 12/17/04 10:24 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

womens_hoops wrote:


Do you really think she's only a "fine" college player?

Last night, she had 31 points, 13 rebounds, 5 steals, 4 assists, and 3 blocks against the #1 team in the country. Other than a little help from Broback, she was basically alone out there all night.

She was given the jobs of: running our offense, creating the open shots for everyone on the floor (since no one else can create their own), helping on d when our guards got beat (every time), and both defending and posting up against a preternaturally talented player 4 inches taller than she.

And she did it all well.

Yes, her pro prospects are another matter entirely. But I'll ask the same question I asked last time -- is she better than Tamika Williams? The answer is obvious.


Yes, the answer is obvious - Williams is better than McCarville will ever be in the pros. Look at Williams' 2004 statistics. She is faster than McC, she is a better defensive player than McC will ever be, and, as in college, she is incredibly efficient from the floor.

Ranks #13 in the WNBA in Rebounds Per Game(6.0)
Ranks #1 in the WNBA in Field-Goal Percentage(0.54)
Ranks #7 in the WNBA in Offensive Rebounds(82.0)
Ranks #5 in the WNBA in Offensive Rebounds Per Game(2.4)
Ranks #18 in the WNBA in Defensive Rebounds(123.0)
Ranks #18 in the WNBA in Defensive Rebounds Per Game(3.6)
Ranks #13 in the WNBA in Total Rebounds(205.0)
Ranks #11 in the WNBA in Double-doubles(3.0)
Ranks #7 in the WNBA in Offensive Rebounds Per 40 Minutes(3.4)

Comparing what McC does in college with what Williams is doing in the W is disengenuous, at best.

The on-court personality comment is kind of strange. Off the court, Williams is a riot. She is very funny and fast talking. On the court she just takes care of business.

Stating that McC is more athletic than Cheryl Ford.. we'll see about that.

McCarville is a very clever passer and quick around the basket. In these things, the comparison to Tamika Williams is valid. McC will have a role in the W, and will be better off in the east, where there are more half-court offenses. However, I still think she will be a defensive liability, and, given that she will not be the focus ofthe offense, her total value will be greatly diminished.

As far as SDS saying that Charlotte should take her first - I'd like to have some of what she's smoking. Charlotte needs to get someone to take Dawn Staley's place. They should take Cappie Pondexter, if she gets her life straightened out. As I said in the previous thread on McC, Minn needs guards, not posts. When the Lynx start to win with regularity, they will draw all the fans they ever will draw, no matter what amount that ends up being.


womens_hoops



Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 12/17/04 11:54 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

well, I'm a Lynx season ticket holder and I like Tamika. But her production has declined each year. She is a solid W player, but not a great one. I believe Janel will be better.

As I said yesterday, Janel is not slower than Tamika in any respect other than getting up the court.

As far as defensive skills, I think Janel will end up being a better rebounder, and a better shot blocker, in large part because of her bigger, stronger hands and her much higher verticle. With her quicker feet and better hands, I also think she'll get more steals.

I've never met Tamika, bet most everyone says she's a great person off the floor. And I like watching her play just fine, but it's not as much fun to me as watching Janel.

As I see it, Tamika's greatest asset is her Basketball IQ, her Gretzky-like knack for being in the right place at the right time. That's why she is such a good rebounder for her size. That's why she's so effecient -- because lots of her points are from uncontested layups.

The drawback is that, while she has some great games, there are some games where she disappears. Frankly, sometimes I think Tamika lacks the intensity we need out there. And I wonder whether she really likes it here (who can blame her?).

Disingenuous, eh? Well, I never compared Tamika's pro numbers to Janel's college numbers, as far as I can recall. I see them both play a lot, so I try to give some comparison of their games based on what I see. Predicting what Janel will do in the pros is just predicting.

In terms of on-court personality.... Janel gets us out of our seats. Tamika doesn't. Maybe Janel won't be able to in the W. But I'd love to be able to see her try.

The Lynx and the Gophs are my teams. I like Tamika and Janel, but I like Janel better, and I'm predicting she'll have a better pro career. I don't say that with a high degree of confidence -- it's just my prediction, and you never can tell till we get there. This debate won't be settled for about 5 years. With luck, they'll both still be in the league and doing great by then.


accommodatingly



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 2191
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PostPosted: 12/18/04 7:55 pm    ::: Tamika vs Janel vs TT vs whoever Reply Reply with quote

Personality: Tamika's an inspiring extrovert (and a great interview) off-court but doesn't seem able to bring that sunshine on-court, or to inspire her teammates. Janel does.

Stats: on a good night Tamika does two things: rebounds from missed interior shots-- lots of them, on both ends-- and putbacks. On a bad night Tamika does nothing. Of course she leads the league in FG%: she only takes layups, and she's not a great passer. Janel can do so many, many more things, though of course we can't KNOW if she'll do them in the W.

Lynx needs, past and present: Glen and Suzie clearly think more of Tamika than I do: they ruled out any trades involving her. Ohlde and Hayden weren't there to replace Tamika, though Hayden has played that role at times: we took them both because without them our only real 5 was the injury-prone, foul-prone, slow Michelle Van Gorp. (Whose hard work and integrity I admire, but still.) Right now the Lynx need guards, guards, guards, guards.

Player comparisons: too soon to know, of course, but that hasn't stopped us before: I'll take Janel in two years over Ford or Riley (or Williams or Asja) as they are now. (Another player she resembles in some ways: Taj McWilliams-Franklin.) LJ and TT comparisons don't make much sense-- Janel's not a 3-ball shooter, never will be (last week she made her first three-pointer EVER); LJ and TT won't set hard picks or turn into low-post bangers when their team needs it, because other players (at least in Seattle) do that-- Janel can turn those skills on at will.


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