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bullsky



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PostPosted: 07/31/08 11:57 am    ::: Sue Bird ready to lead Team USA Reply Reply with quote

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/olympics/2008082720_bird31.html
Quote:
When Storm star Sue Bird began playing basketball on the neighborhood courts in Syosset, N.Y., there wasn't a visible professional women's league like the WNBA. The Olympics were her dream.



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PostPosted: 07/31/08 1:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

One of the striking things about this article is the way it laid out the path that Sue took to becoming the starting point guard on the National Team. It really highlights how it's not necessarily based on suddenly being considered one of the best point guards in the WNBA, or recently elevating your game (not that she hasn't done both), but how it's definitely a process and involves putting your time in in the system.



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PostPosted: 07/31/08 3:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

norwester wrote:
One of the striking things about this article is the way it laid out the path that Sue took to becoming the starting point guard on the National Team. It really highlights how it's not necessarily based on suddenly being considered one of the best point guards in the WNBA, or recently elevating your game (not that she hasn't done both), but how it's definitely a process and involves putting your time in in the system.



Thank you. I also think people should look more to Dawn Staley than to Anne Donovan here. Dawn was the outgoing point guard, and unquestioned leader of team USA for how many years? If Sue was the player she'd groomed and felt the most comfortable turning over the reigns to, then that's the player she got. The parts in there about managing egos is big, too - that's something Sue has always worked on, getting along with everyone and being a peacemaker. If there is anyone that that many ultra-talented women are going to listen to and want to play with, it's Sue. She's intelligent, she pays attention to you, she's fair.

It's like, does part of me want her to go out and try to score 20 to 30 points a game? Hell yes. Did I want her to get up in Donovan or Lennox's face on more than one occasion? Hell yes. But does she? No, because she's the prototype international, old school point guard first and foremost.


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PostPosted: 08/02/08 7:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This is a great article to read for those that have been shouting to the roof tops why Whalen or Hammon was not selected over Sue, or not as her back-up and either you will get it or you won't, but I still see those complaining. Sue has been working towards this goal for, what over a decade? The fact is Hammon nor Whalen were on a team in college that gets noticed and as much TV coverage as UConn does, but had their college team done what UConn has then I bet they would have been noticed; especially if they got the awards Sue did.

Quote:

"Sue is big because she did her homework and studied under Dawn in 2004,"


Quote:
She also saw her desired future.

"When I was watching that game, I said, 'I'd love to play for that team,' " Bird said. "It became my goal. That's when it was really real


Quote:

"I played against her and we gave them a pretty good spanking," Staley said of Bird and the USA Select team that played against the national team in 2000. "I started watching her through the ranks because I knew I was going to retire soon. I wanted the leadership, the point-guard position, in good hands. They were touting Sue as the next point guard, so I wanted to see her style.



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PostPosted: 08/02/08 9:24 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
The fact is Hammon nor Whalen were on a team in college that gets noticed and as much TV coverage as UConn does, but had their college team done what UConn has then I bet they would have been noticed; especially if they got the awards Sue did.




It's a good thing Sue never had to face diversity her first 3 years of collage. Rolling Eyes Damn you ESPN for not covering us when we were on the bottom of the standing and placed on probation. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes



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PostPosted: 08/02/08 9:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Which team was at the bottom on the standings and who was placed on probabtion?



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PostPosted: 08/02/08 9:56 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

LakotaStorm wrote:
Which team was at the bottom on the standings and who was placed on probabtion?


Minnesota.



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PostPosted: 08/02/08 10:07 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

braveniler58 wrote:
LakotaStorm wrote:
Which team was at the bottom on the standings and who was placed on probabtion?


Minnesota.


So why did Whalen go to school there?



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norwester



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PostPosted: 08/02/08 10:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It's not adversity (what I assume was meant by "diversity) to get a season-ending injury at the very beginning of the season? Besides, it's not a good game to play: this player faced more issues that player. Bad karma.

I understand that Whalen went to MN because they were turning that program around, and she believed the coach. Then she helped recruit McCarville. I think it was actually a pretty good story. And I think MN got as much press as UConn in the tournament, anyway, what with Whalen's broken hand and all.

I like her. I know that a couple years ago there was talk of grooming Harding to be Sue's back-up, but she got hurt (repeatedly). I wonder what they're rethinking about that and if they might look to Whalen in the future as she gets more international experience. If she sticks with the National Team's system I think she'll have a chance. However, I also wonder if they (by which I mean the selection committee, of course, or perhaps Dawn Staley) think they have it sewn up with who's on the team this year. Lawson? Pondexter?



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PostPosted: 08/02/08 11:25 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

My rebuttal is simple. Which is by far the best team USA will send to the Olympics? Look at how they choose the players. Look at how they prepare.

Look at who tried and failed to make the team.

Jenny Topping
Lisa Fernandez.

USA Softball took the best players, that had the most to bring to the team.

Enough said.



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LakotaStorm



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PostPosted: 08/02/08 11:44 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Where is it that Whalen's dream was the same as Sue's? Did she do what Sue did to get noticed? I know nothing about Whalen before the Sun gopher, so you have to be more specific.



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"My mother said I must always be intolerant of ignorance but understanding of illiteracy. That some people, unable to go to school, were more educated and more intelligent than college professors."
gopherfan



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PostPosted: 08/02/08 12:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

icey23 wrote:
braveniler58 wrote:
LakotaStorm wrote:
Which team was at the bottom on the standings and who was placed on probabtion?


Minnesota.


So why did Whalen go to school there?


Because she loves Minnesota and didn't of think going to any other school but the UofM. These things happen in the first 3 years in Lindsay collage year when Little john was the coach and recruited Whalen.



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PostPosted: 08/02/08 12:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
It's not adversity (what I assume was meant by "diversity) to get a season-ending injury at the very beginning of the season? Besides, it's not a good game to play: this player faced more issues that player. Bad karma.


I'm not talking about her broken hand I'm talking about the major violations that were created by Littlejohn this is by far worst then the Men's (team) "Clem Haskins years".



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PostPosted: 08/02/08 1:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

vanyogan wrote:
My rebuttal is simple. Which is by far the best team USA will send to the Olympics? Look at how they choose the players. Look at how they prepare.

Look at who tried and failed to make the team.

Jenny Topping
Lisa Fernandez.

USA Softball took the best players, that had the most to bring to the team.

Enough said.


Personally, I think Sue is the best pick. And makes the team better.

And I really don't know whether Whalen would have been the best choice to be on the team. Between chemistry (the way teams fit together) and how AD coaches (she's not going to use anyone but Bird at the point, there is no need for a backup point guard, really.. Rolling Eyes ) I feel like Whalen would have been a wasted pick. Even if they were grooming Whalen to be the next PG, she's not that much younger than Bird anyway..

I think Whalen deserves to be on the team, but I'm not sure she would have been the best pick.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 08/02/08 1:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:
vanyogan wrote:
My rebuttal is simple. Which is by far the best team USA will send to the Olympics? Look at how they choose the players. Look at how they prepare.

Look at who tried and failed to make the team.

Jenny Topping
Lisa Fernandez.

USA Softball took the best players, that had the most to bring to the team.

Enough said.


Personally, I think Sue is the best pick. And makes the team better.

And I really don't know whether Whalen would have been the best choice to be on the team. Between chemistry (the way teams fit together) and how AD coaches (she's not going to use anyone but Bird at the point, there is no need for a backup point guard, really.. Rolling Eyes ) I feel like Whalen would have been a wasted pick. Even if they were grooming Whalen to be the next PG, she's not that much younger than Bird anyway..

I think Whalen deserves to be on the team, but I'm not sure she would have been the best pick.


But you don't just bring players as backups - you bring them to cover as many eventualities as you can. If Sue Bird goes out in the first game, falls over and breaks her leg, this team is going to be desperately trying to cover throughout the tournament with some combination of Smith/Pondexter/Lawson/Taurasi at the point. That's why you take an actual point-guard as back-up (and by back-up I mean among the 12 selected, not in the 'reserve' list).

The comparison with softball/baseball doesn't really work though. Those are essentially individual sports played within a team framework. If the best player in the world were to randomly become available you could insert him/her into the lineup immediately with minimal disruption. In basketball (or soccer, or any other true team sport where all the players interact with each other constantly) you can't just select the best 12 players and expect it to work. Creating a unit and chemistry is too important a component of trying to win.


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PostPosted: 08/02/08 2:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

icey23 wrote:
braveniler58 wrote:
LakotaStorm wrote:
Which team was at the bottom on the standings and who was placed on probabtion?


Minnesota.


So why did Whalen go to school there?

For the same reason Seimone stayed home & went to LSU.



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MNfan22



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PostPosted: 08/02/08 3:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

gohperfan wrote:
Because she loves Minnesota and didn't of think going to any other school but the UofM. These things happen in the first 3 years in Lindsay collage year when Little john was the coach and recruited Whalen.

I believe most if not all violations sited where before Whalens freshman year. Littlejohn was fired after her frosh yr. Probation came during her stay.


gopherfan wrote:
I'm not talking about her broken hand I'm talking about the major violations that were created by Littlejohn this is by far worst then the Men's (team) "Clem Haskins years".

By far worse ? Aaah no. Clem's doings were worse. They striped all the records. They wiped away the Haskins years as if they never happened.
Not that much happened during the Littlejohn years other then lots of losing, some clothes buying and team drama Laughing



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PostPosted: 08/02/08 4:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The point is even with the violations, probation and being on the bottom of the standing Minnesota wasn't team that was going to get coverage unless it was the negative kind.



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PostPosted: 08/02/08 4:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

How did this thread get dragged off topic into some dredging up of the past travails at MN? Granted, they had problems. Whalen seems to have risen above that and had some success, however. And those issues didn't affect Sue's journey to becoming National Team point guard. At least not directly.



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PostPosted: 08/02/08 4:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

LakotaStorm wrote:
This is a great article to read for those that have been shouting to the roof tops why Whalen or Hammon was not selected over Sue, or not as her back-up and either you will get it or you won't, but I still see those complaining. Sue has been working towards this goal for, what over a decade? The fact is Hammon nor Whalen were on a team in college that gets noticed and as much TV coverage as UConn does, but had their college team done what UConn has then I bet they would have been noticed; especially if they got the awards Sue did.


This isn't really a straw man of course because obviously there are some people who think that way and are complaining about Sue as the first choice point guard, but they are the vast minority. The real concern for most people, I think, is the very realistic concern that there is no legitimate back-up point guard for team USA. This article does nothing to undermine that concern and, in fact, only supports it.

All we hear over and over is how the road to the national team takes time and commitment, it comes with years of specifically aiming for this goal, and of course Sue was groomed by Dawn Staley herself. That this is what makes her ideal at leading this team.

I actually buy that. So who the hell does the selection committee see as putting in the time right now and why isn't Sue Bird grooming them at this Olympics? If this is the process, why don't we see it being applied in the present?

There was a quote a few days ago, I believe from AD, comparing Lawson's position to Sue four years ago. That's absolutely frightening for the future of this team and an article about how awesome Sue is -- which I think the majority of people do agree on anyway, despite a vocal minority -- doesn't make it less so.



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PostPosted: 08/02/08 4:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I totally agree on the no-back-up point; it worries me. I even think I asked about it in my post. Who's being groomed now? I wish Whalen or someone had made the team for Sue to be grooming for future USAB starting point guard duties. Because are we really saying that Lawson or Pondexter are the point guards we need in the future?

Considering just the current Olympics, their choices likely make sense. But if we're talking about the vaunted "system" what are they saying abou their future direction here? It's weird.



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PostPosted: 08/02/08 4:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

norwester wrote:
How did this thread get dragged off topic into some dredging up of the past travails at MN? Granted, they had problems. Whalen seems to have risen above that and had some success, however. And those issues didn't affect Sue's journey to becoming National Team point guard. At least not directly.



Then don't compare collages in which has nothing to as to why lindsay didn't get picked.



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PostPosted: 08/02/08 4:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

norwester wrote:
I totally agree on the no-back-up point; it worries me. I even think I asked about it in my post. Who's being groomed now? I wish Whalen or someone had made the team for Sue to be grooming for future USAB starting point guard duties. Because are we really saying that Lawson or Pondexter are the point guards we need in the future?

Considering just the current Olympics, their choices likely make sense. But if we're talking about the vaunted "system" what are they saying abou their future direction here? It's weird.


Bird's pretty young. Perhaps USA Basketball is expecting her to be their go to point guard for two Olympics, and are planning on her grooming a successor next time around.


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PostPosted: 08/02/08 4:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

gopherfan wrote:
norwester wrote:
How did this thread get dragged off topic into some dredging up of the past travails at MN? Granted, they had problems. Whalen seems to have risen above that and had some success, however. And those issues didn't affect Sue's journey to becoming National Team point guard. At least not directly.



Then don't compare collages in which has nothing to as to why lindsay didn't get picked.

I didn't. Wink



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PostPosted: 08/02/08 4:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

newkid wrote:
Bird's pretty young. Perhaps USA Basketball is expecting her to be their go to point guard for two Olympics, and are planning on her grooming a successor next time around.

Risky, despite her youth, but I'm sure you're right.



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