RebKell's Junkie Boards

[stever]

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~107~2817153,00.html

"You're talking about giving women who have played the sport at a high level and have been successful coaches an opportunity, where a male coach already has opportunities on his side of the game. So it matters. And it should matter to the university," Barry said.

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[KatValeska]

I wanted to hug Mike Krizla when i read that a few days ago.

But after reading it I have to say it seems even more bizarre that they passed up a clearly superior female candidate in Joanne Boyle to go after Kevin Borseth. The whole thing makes less than no sense.

[Keegan]

Glad about Boyle... because it appears she's heading to Cal.

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[KatValeska]

"Glad about Boyle... because it appears she's heading to Cal."

Actually she was named the head coach at Cal on Friday.

*cries into beer for 15th time since Friday*

[Keegan]

Good to hear - she has a bunch of new talent to work with and hopefully Cal will no longer be the easy-beats of the Pac-10.

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[pilight]

[Gaucho Don]

Apparently they are ready to announce the new coach tomorrow:

http://www.cubuffs.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=600&ATCLID=118409

[KatValeska]

Seems like a good hire. I reckon they can't possibly go wrong with a gal from Pittsburgh.

[bluewolfvii]

I just saw the news about Kathy McConnell on womenshoopsblog. Thanks, Steve & Jesse. Loved the links, especially the Urban Tulsa Weekly's 'Separate but Equal' ['Also, she gives Girl Scout cookies'].

http://www.womenshoops.blogspot.com/

[bballjunkee212]

Sorry, but I can't agree with the columnist, or anyone who says a coach should be a man or a woman. The coach should be the best person available who can do the job.

And even though it appears forward thinking for a journalist to advocate the selection of a woman on the basis of "opportunity," it is in fact an invidious step backward because it emphasizes the differences among us, further polarizing us into "our" camps. "Divide and conquer," a smart tactician once said. "A nation divided against itself cannot stand," Lincoln once said. You may not view the column as part of the larger "conspiracy," but when it suggests division among us, for whatever lofty goal, it reinforces the divisions which make it easier for those who rule us to do so.

As for Ceal Barry's comments that men should look elsewhere because they have opportunities elsewhere, I think that clearly demonstrates the "us" vs. "them" mentality that is so destructive. I am reminded of something John Thompson once said when he was still coaching at Georgetown, to the effect that he would never recruit a white player because they had so many opportunities elsewhere. Can you imagine the outcry if Barry had said CU was looking for a male coach- for any reason? Can you imagine how fast any coach would have been chastised into ignoble obscurity if they had publicly stated that they would not recruit a black player? (Anyone seen Adolf Rupp lately? Okay, I know he's dead, but how did he finish his career?)

The point being, if preference, bias, prejudice, bigotry, hatred are things to be avoided, the avoidance needs to cut in both directions.

~Bill

[bluewolfvii]

The link I referred to is from Steve & Jesse's story
http://www.womenshoops.blogspot.com/
Its a great background story on Kathy McConnell-Miller and what she's been up to these years building that program in Tulsa.

What columnist said what who where? I'm not interested in the politiical angle. I'd be just as happy if it was Pete Serio, who also can coach. Its a 'burgh thing.

From the articles Steve & Jesse posted, Kathy McConnell-Miller sounds pretty damn well qualified to me. I remember two years back she was a frontrunner for Pitt's vacancy. There was a lot of talk of her in the papers then. Its not the first time her name has surfaced as a candidate for a bigger Division I program.

Edit: OK, I see the Ceal Barry quote in the opinion piece Steve posted from the Denver post two weeks ago. I see the article also quoted the Buffs AD. "We want the best coach and the best fit, whether it's male or female, from college, pro or high school," said Mike Bohn, greeted with a fresh crisis to manage a day after being introduced as athletic director.

Colorado got a great coach.

[pilight]

[Gaucho Don]

I agree with BBJ, gender shouldn't be the question, who is the best coaching candidate for the position should be.

However, until somebody gives a female coach a chance on the men's side of the sport, I find it tough to blame someone for doing the same thing on this side of the sport and only considering female coaches.

[pilight]

[bluewolfvii]

[pilight]

Retaliation in the form of not hiring men to coach women will accomplish nothing towards righting the wrong of women not being hired to coach men. Indeed, the people being harmed by ths action aren't even the ones at fault on the other side. Blacklisting Dan Hughes or Kevin Borseth isn't going to affect the NBA or MCBB establishment in the slightest. They might not even notice it.

If you want change, go about it the same way it was done for other professions that were once male only and now allow both men and women. Get some qualified women that want to do it to apply. When they get turned down, which they will, protest. Letter writing campaigns, petitions, pickets, the whole bit. Call the NCAA, the conference, the school president and AD, the boosters, and anyone else with pull. As a last resort, if you can prove gender discrimination, go to court. Don't let up until you get some hires.

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[bballjunkee212]

First things first: Pilight, who is that taking the shot? I just can't place her.

Okay, my money would be on institutional bias- on the men's side. And I don't think it's useful to counter that with an institutional bias on the women's side. Rather than say that since only men get to coach men, so only women should coach women, let's ask why it is that only men get hired on the men's side?

Say it's a Jamie Carey, or a Morgan Valley, or a Nikki Caldwell or a Kami Ethridge, looking for a spot as a grad assistant or assistant coach in men's programs. Is the game so different across gender lines that their experience is of no value to a men's program? If that was the case, why would women's programs find the experience of male candidates so valuable?

I cannot think of an instance where a female candidate was named in a list of "also rans" for a coaching/assistant position in a men's program- I would be interested to know of such a situation.

So are women coaching candidates just so disinterested in men's basketball that none of them has ever applied? Or do they not apply for the same reason no college-educated black man in the 1950s would have applied for a position as a junior executive?

Is there some sense that these young bucks won't listen to a "girl" and give her the proper respect? If that is the case, we don't need to look so very far to find why there is a pervasive gender bias: The Powers That Be give the next generation a free pass on believing that women and their interests and endeavors are inferior.

There is one point which I can concede is legit: Say there is a school where a senior member of both the men's and the women's team has made known from early on that they are interested in coaching as a career. Say the woman goes to her coach and says, I'm applying for a position on your staff as a graduate assistant, but as any prudent job applicant would do, I am applying to other programs, including men's programs. And she does so with the coach's blessing- whether the coach intends to hire her or not is immaterial at the moment. So this player now goes to the men's coach; by this time, they are not strangers to one another. He knows her interest in coaching. He considers her interest legitimate and believes that she has what it takes to succeed. But he also knows that his own player is interested in coaching and is just as qualified. And the coach has just one spot to fill. Whom does he select? If he hires his own player, whom he has known for four years or longer, whose basketball knowledge and understanding is known to him first-hand, and for whom he may have genuine feelings for as a person, is it gender-bias for him to hire the male and not the female?

Same scenario, different context: Say Nikki Caldwell and Chris Collins are applying for the same assistant coaching position under Rick Pitino at Louisville. Both have been assistants for two of the best coaches in the game, at two of the preeminent programs in the game. Both have outstanding records of performance and achievement as assistants. Pitino knows both candidates personally. He knows their head coaches personally. He respects their programs and what they have done and what they are capable of. But Pitino has just sent the core of his lineup to the pros. He has some great freshmen coming in, but he has to get going fast. He also needs badly to snag some key recruits, or the team won't be any good in the long term. If he chooses Collins because he needs the assistant to produce from day one, and Collins has a proven track record of coaching and recruiting male athletes, (besides a lifetime in the men's game), is it gender-bias?

Okay, last scenario: A D1 men's coach has an opening for a grad assistant or an assistant coach. He doesn't have anybody in line for the position. None of his trusted colleagues has endorsed one candidate over another. As he reviews resumes to reduce the candidate pool to a manageable number, he notes two or three women applicants. He arbitrarily tosses them into the "reject" pile- too many problems, he thinks. Boys won't listen to them; boys will try to become involved with them; boys will harass them; they haven't learned "real" basketball; they can't go into the locker room. Better to discard them now than try to deal with all that. And if any of them bitches (coach's word, not mine), it will be easy to show that any of the final candidates were better qualified. Among the resumes the coach tosses are (for grad assistant) Maria Conlon, Jamie Carey, Susan Borchardt; (for assistant) Tamika Williams, Holly Warlick, Chris Daley.

In that last scenario, we don't hafta ask the question we asked in the first two. The question we hafta ask is, how do we deal with this type of thinking? And the follow up question is, do we deal with this type of thinking by institutionally mandating it in the women's programs?

~Bill

[pilight]

[bluewolfvii]

Interesting stuff. I like the ideas on championing qualified applicants, but wonder how many women would choose the 'nuclear' option and sue. It hasn't happened often in other sports with regards to the bias that exists with regard to coaching and race. That bias is not just institutional with regards to basketball; it seems to transcend all of professional sport.

For example, in the last couple years the WNBA has leaned on the basketball experience of the NBA. But of the 8 male coaches who comprise a majoritiy of the WNBA, just 1 is black. That's why its exciting to see a coach who has found success, like Laimbeer, bring in someone like Rick Mahorn who brings an NBA skill set to the WNBA, but still needs his feet wet.

I grew up watching a local quarterback, Tony Dungy, get passed over for head coaching jobs even though Chuck Noll helped him get his feet wet. Dungy was undoubtedly one of the brightest young football minds back then but it took a lot of pressure from the NFL commissioner, politicians, and fellow coaches to get him his chance.

People like Michele Edwards, Coquese Washington, etc. who comprise the first generation of WNBA players are going to find the going doubly tough. I think its important for the sport to grooming the widest possible array of coaches. That's why I'm happy when I see a coach like CVS giving WNBA pioneers like Edwards and Sue Wicks a chance. And that brings us back to Ceal Barry. There's always a champion, whether it be Noll, Laimbeer, CVS, or Barry. Half of coaching is getting your foot in the door.

[pilight]

[1carol]