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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 67164 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 08/15/06 12:50 pm ::: The dark cloud on the horizon |
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The CBA expires after next season. The posturing begins now...
http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/sports/atoz/article_1243273.php
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"I think originally, players thought the cap was beneficial," Sparks forward Lisa Leslie said. "It limited the ninth, 10th and 11th players, making them sign lesser contracts.
"Originally it was that player that voted for it. But it ended up hurting a lot of players, and some lost their jobs." |
_________________ The truth is like poetry
Most people hate poetry
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4ever_bball_fan
Joined: 20 Dec 2004 Posts: 6125 Location: Houston
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Posted: 08/15/06 1:44 pm ::: |
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One thing that keeps coming to my mind is that a lot of the current players, rookie through fourth year, have no idea what the original players organized for. The league has changed so much since then.
I think it is good to hear a player, who also holds an MBA, make the statements that Lesile made here. It lets me know somebody is thinking about all the players, not just the stars, and not just the rookies. The CBA did effectively take a lot of players out of the league...the Astou's, the Goody's, etc.
I also think it is good that someone like Tamika Catchings is the president of the players union during this time. Also schooled in business, she is very highly regarded by both sides in these negotiations. Hopefully, she will be able to build a coalition within the players that will keep them strong, and communicating well with each other.
The owners will be the owners. They are old hands at this, and will work hard to maintain the ground they have in the current CBA. They will cry and lament about how much money they are losing in this enterprise, so it will be interesting to see if the players can truly move themselves toward more in the salary area.
_________________ The competitor with the will to win also has the will to work. John Wooden.
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Marjie
Joined: 13 Jun 2005 Posts: 1235
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Posted: 08/15/06 2:03 pm ::: |
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Donna did say that she was going to push for more money for the players in the next contract.
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004 Posts: 16393 Location: Chicago
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Posted: 08/15/06 2:09 pm ::: |
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Marjie wrote: |
Donna did say that she was going to push for more money for the players in the next contract. |
I would like to see coring relaxed, if nothing else to limit it to one player per team. I doubt it would happen.
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harlem_basketball
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 2666 Location: Gee I don't know...Harlem maybe?
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Posted: 08/15/06 2:10 pm ::: |
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4ever_bball_fan wrote: |
I think it is good to hear a player, who also holds an MBA......Lesile |
I'm sorry, I just find it hilarious. Don't mind me. |
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NK
Joined: 03 May 2006 Posts: 2177 Location: Republic of Texas
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acusefan
Joined: 25 Mar 2006 Posts: 55
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Posted: 08/15/06 2:29 pm ::: |
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The big issue last time was that they had players who have no clue about the CBA running their mouths. I forget who the player was but they were basically calling for the players to strike unless the salaries were almost doubled.
The bad news for the players that is even though the league is still around after 10 years its still not a major money maker. The owners know exactly what they're doing and the player have to figure out whats most important. The big money players will obviously push for a higher cap and max contract. If they're smart they'll argue for more free agency and a higher cap and a higher minimum especially for rookie FA.
I don't know the CBA by heart but Phoenix seems like a team thats going to need some cap relief at some point. DT is going to be a max player, Cappie/Irvin were early picks, Kamila/Taylor must be making money.
Also I think more free agency would build more excitement in the offseason if a team could boast a good free agent signing along with a draft pick.
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4ever_bball_fan
Joined: 20 Dec 2004 Posts: 6125 Location: Houston
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Posted: 08/15/06 2:34 pm ::: |
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Mock all you will, but some of those institutions are just as regionally accredited as state u's all over the county. Better credentials than some private schools.
And, if you have never studied in that external environment, you can't understand the discipline it takes to write a paper for an instructor/professor that you don't get to listen to in a class everyday, and already know their biases and points of view.
It is a different method of education, and I think you will find that most "traditional" schools are finally getting in on the same action.
**Note: I am not a graduate of the University of Phoenix, but I did have to wade through the throngs of their graduates while on my recent trip to the Desert.
***Note to NK: I will gladly call you Dr., and feel embarrassed since I didn't know you were a man of the cloth, as it were.
_________________ The competitor with the will to win also has the will to work. John Wooden.
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SORF
Joined: 06 Jan 2005 Posts: 1979
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NK
Joined: 03 May 2006 Posts: 2177 Location: Republic of Texas
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NK
Joined: 03 May 2006 Posts: 2177 Location: Republic of Texas
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bullsky
Joined: 04 Jun 2005 Posts: 20310
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Posted: 08/15/06 3:15 pm ::: |
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PUmatty wrote: |
Marjie wrote: |
Donna did say that she was going to push for more money for the players in the next contract. |
I would like to see coring relaxed, if nothing else to limit it to one player per team. I doubt it would happen. |
I agree. I don't like coring.
I just hope the WNBA can give more money to its athletes. With injuries a plenty, it seems only fitting for the players to get more money. The league is getting better, travel is getting tougher, its only fair. Just out of curiousity, I have no clue about the CBA or the players association, but how much could the WNBA raise money for the players? Could it be a little more, or a lot more?
_________________ "Don't do something until you get it right, do it until you can't do it wrong."
- Geno Auriemma
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SORF
Joined: 06 Jan 2005 Posts: 1979
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accommodatingly
Joined: 21 Nov 2004 Posts: 2191 Location: Saint Paul, MN
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Posted: 08/15/06 3:55 pm ::: |
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My impression is that the current CBA encourages teams to replace decent, but non-All-Star quality,, veterans with younger players, maybe more so (I don't really know) than CBAs in men's leagues-- maybe too much so.
If I'm right, then younger and older players, except for the biggest stars (Leslie, Catch, Augustus) have opposite interests going into negotiations. (For example: Jess Moore should want younger players to remain cheaper, so that LA will be more likely to keep her, or other teams to pick her up, as they ditch veterans to avoid cap violations; Alison Feaster should want the opposite.)
It's hard to imagine the players being dumb enough to call a strike. Especially if Catch is running the union.
I do hope the next CBA does something about child care.
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Slovydal
Joined: 17 Nov 2004 Posts: 12205 Location: Indianapolis, IN
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 67164 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 08/15/06 4:55 pm ::: |
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accommodatingly wrote: |
It's hard to imagine the players being dumb enough to call a strike. Especially if Catch is running the union. |
Last time around they at least said the word. I doubt it will come to that, but I'm not that hopeful. Each of the first two negotiations have gone past last minute, delaying the draft and affecting the preseason.
_________________ The truth is like poetry
Most people hate poetry
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amaha05
Joined: 27 Jul 2005 Posts: 798
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Posted: 08/15/06 5:32 pm ::: |
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I know this sounds trivial in the grander scheme of things.
But I hope that somewhere the players can lobby for charter flights.
Their game schedule is so incredibly grueling. And with the latest round of security increases, travel could be virtually impossible.
I am convinced that it hurts the product on the floor. And I think it contributed to the injuries sustained throughout the season.
I doubt we could have avoided people getting hurt, but I bet allowing teams to leave with a reasonable schedule could have helped.
Considering that their Male counterparts travel this way I don't see the big deal. I know it is costly, but isn't Southwest Airlines a Sponsor?
I also know a local Aviation Group that would love to get publicity at a NBA/WNBA game, and fly the WNBA around.
So yeah it might be a stretch But I bet something could be worked out.
As for the rest... Tamika is more than capable, and I have no doubt that something fair, reasonable and beneficial for all will be worked out.
_________________ I Don't know why they want to Test Me they Know I'm from Jersey... DeMya Walker July 18, 2004
Big Girls Rule...
I'd rather be trapped in someone else's dutch oven than deal with the "breath of fresh air" Gavin Newsom would bring to Sacramento.
That's change NO-ONE can believe in.
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hooper1
Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 2300
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Posted: 08/15/06 5:38 pm ::: |
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4ever_bball_fan wrote: |
Mock all you will, but some of those institutions are just as regionally accredited as state u's all over the county. Better credentials than some private schools.
And, if you have never studied in that external environment, you can't understand the discipline it takes to write a paper for an instructor/professor that you don't get to listen to in a class everyday, and already know their biases and points of view.
It is a different method of education, and I think you will find that most "traditional" schools are finally getting in on the same action.
**Note: I am not a graduate of the University of Phoenix, but I did have to wade through the throngs of their graduates while on my recent trip to the Desert.
***Note to NK: I will gladly call you Dr., and feel embarrassed since I didn't know you were a man of the cloth, as it were. |
Devry? Anyone? Antioch? University of LaVerne? Cambridge College? Moe's School of Advanced Education? No takers?
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bluewolfvii
Joined: 08 Mar 2005 Posts: 5007 Location: The Happening
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Posted: 08/15/06 5:57 pm ::: |
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PUmatty wrote: |
Marjie wrote: |
Donna did say that she was going to push for more money for the players in the next contract. |
I would like to see coring relaxed, if nothing else to limit it to one player per team. I doubt it would happen. |
So would I. Teams that would spend top dollar on a marquee player to win a championship should be rewarded, as should the fans that will flock to that team that is focused on winning. Keep the salary cap in place if necessary along with the mechanism to adjust it keyed to average WNBA salary. It makes people feel better about competitive balance, but so far the teams that are focused on winning have found ways around the cap. It hasn't been a problem.
One core player per team per season, along with the right to match salaries on RFAs should suit the league's competitive balance.
Just like last contract when the # of years before a player reached free agent status was the issue that most concerned the players, this upcoming year it will be the number of players who can be cored. The players didn't like the core language in the last CBA and won't settle for an extension of the current terms.
Relax the restrictions on the players. Pay them what the market will bear by allowing unrestricted movement among the 4 yrs + players, with the exception on one core per team using a one-time exemption, along with the ability to match salaries for the one RFA year.
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MsTena-T
Joined: 31 Mar 2006 Posts: 2178
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Posted: 08/15/06 6:06 pm ::: |
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I would say the salary cap should be increased.
That being said higher salaries will cause higher ticket prices . . . and if you aren't selling out arenas at lower prices it is unlike it will get done at higher prices.
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Marjie
Joined: 13 Jun 2005 Posts: 1235
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Posted: 08/15/06 6:18 pm ::: |
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Anyone have an idea of the breakdown of the costs to run a WNBA team? What % is player salaries & fringe benefits, administrated costs, areana use, transportation/travel, coaches/trainers/conditioning staff, etc, etc? Also, where revenues come from? Thanks!
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womens_hoops
Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 2831
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Posted: 08/15/06 6:22 pm ::: |
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accommodatingly wrote: |
My impression is that the current CBA encourages teams to replace decent, but non-All-Star quality,, veterans with younger players, maybe more so (I don't really know) than CBAs in men's leagues-- maybe too much so. |
I think that's right. For example, I think in the NBA, the salaries of players signed under the mid-level exception are partially funded by shared revenues. Thus vets are relatively cheaper.
accommodatingly wrote: |
(For example: Jess Moore should want younger players to remain cheaper, so that LA will be more likely to keep her, or other teams to pick her up, as they ditch veterans to avoid cap violations; Alison Feaster should want the opposite.) |
Sorta depends on how she assesses her standing, both now and in the future. She might think: I'm young and on the border, so I should hope that players like me make as little as possible, so I'll keep my job. Or she might think: I'm young and not a star, but I'm pretty sure I've got a spot in the league, so I should hope that players like me make as much as possible.
Or she might think: in a few years, I'll be a borderline vet player, so I should hope that vets are relatively cheap compared to rookies, so they'll keep me around then. Etc.
It's hard to assess in individual cases. But when you aggregate the whole thing, I think what dominates is the insider-outsider dynamic that often unionized negotiations. Which often means that unions, as a whole, are willing to give up stable employment in exchange for higher pay.
Which might mean here: higher caps, freer free agency, and rookies still getting next to nothing.
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Mirage32
Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 281 Location: Illinois
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Posted: 08/15/06 6:33 pm ::: |
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Marjie wrote: |
Anyone have an idea of the breakdown of the costs to run a WNBA team? What % is player salaries & fringe benefits, administrated costs, areana use, transportation/travel, coaches/trainers/conditioning staff, etc, etc? Also, where revenues come from? Thanks! |
This is the kind of info the league and the teams are going to protective of in negotiation. I'm not sure if you can expect a straight answer. Donna O won't give particulars as to the league breaking even, rather she speaks in pretty general terms.
_________________ Diana Taurasi: "I also read that Tennessee and UConn aren't playing anymore, and all I can say is that is some bullsh**."
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auntie
Joined: 16 May 2006 Posts: 1774 Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Posted: 08/15/06 6:36 pm ::: |
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amaha05 wrote: |
I know this sounds trivial in the grander scheme of things.
But I hope that somewhere the players can lobby for charter flights.
Their game schedule is so incredibly grueling. And with the latest round of security increases, travel could be virtually impossible.
I am convinced that it hurts the product on the floor. And I think it contributed to the injuries sustained throughout the season.
I doubt we could have avoided people getting hurt, but I bet allowing teams to leave with a reasonable schedule could have helped.
Considering that their Male counterparts travel this way I don't see the big deal. I know it is costly, but isn't Southwest Airlines a Sponsor?
I also know a local Aviation Group that would love to get publicity at a NBA/WNBA game, and fly the WNBA around.
So yeah it might be a stretch But I bet something could be worked out.
As for the rest... Tamika is more than capable, and I have no doubt that something fair, reasonable and beneficial for all will be worked out. |
I agree about the charter flights. UCONN and some other colleges do it, so why not treat these women as professionals. Especially when there are back to back games in different cities.
I also think that the next CBA should be fashioned so that teams will be less likely to pick players because of the salary and not their ability as discussed previously. It will improve the overall product that is being provided to fans.
_________________ A woman's place is in the paint--Another artist for Liberty.
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p_d_swanson
Joined: 01 Dec 2004 Posts: 9713
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Posted: 08/15/06 6:39 pm ::: |
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womens_hoops wrote: |
accommodatingly wrote: |
My impression is that the current CBA encourages teams to replace decent, but non-All-Star quality,, veterans with younger players, maybe more so (I don't really know) than CBAs in men's leagues-- maybe too much so. |
I think that's right. For example, I think in the NBA, the salaries of players signed under the mid-level exception are partially funded by shared revenues. Thus vets are relatively cheaper. |
NBA players signed to minimum-salary contracts all cost their respective teams the same amount (with the league supplementing the balance of salary) regardless of how much service time the player has accrued. So for example, a two-year vet would cost his team $774,551 for 2006-07 while one with 10 years of experience -- minimum salary $1,178,348 -- would have $403,797 of that reimbursed by the league office, so that the types of roster decisions you're discussing aren't a factor. This is an idea worth exploring in the WNBA...
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