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Futurama
Joined: 09 Apr 2005
Posts: 665
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 Posted: 04/13/05 1:42 am ::: Sheryl's Trade Value? |
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Lobo and Lieberman both claim Sheryl Swoopes is on the trading block.
Would the Sting give up the #1 pick for her? Van likes Tan.
Swoopes and Staley have been in 3 Olympics together and Sheryl
would be more immediate help for Charlotte than the rookie.
Sting starters: Swoopes, Staley, T.Smith, Sutton-Brown, Feaster
Sting bench: Sam, Darling, Mazzante, Enis
Comet starters: White, Lambert, Thompson, Arcain, Snow
Comet bench: 5th pick, 15th pick, Canty, Phillips
Although if they did turn down Nat Williams and the #2 for the #1 then maybe Charlotte really wants Tan White after all.
Or how about Sheryl to WAS for picks #6 and #13 and Phoenix's #3 pick (assuming that trade happens). A draft haul of Wecker, Lyttle, Jackson and Johnson would really help Houston's age and depth problems.
other scenarios:
SS to Sparks for Mwadi Mabika (surely she's sick of LL after 8 years)
SS to Liberty for Crystal Robinson & Shameka Christon
SS to Silver Stars for LaToya Thomas
SS to Mercury for Penny Taylor (I know the Merc fans are gonna say no to this)
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MT_Swoopes
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/13/05 1:46 am ::: Re: Sheryl's Trade Value? |
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| Futurama wrote: |
Lobo and Lieberman both claim Sheryl Swoopes is on the trading block.
Would the Sting give up the #1 pick for her? Van likes Tan.
Swoopes and Staley have been in 3 Olympics together and Sheryl
would be more immediate help for Charlotte than the rookie.
Sting starters: Swoopes, Staley, T.Smith, Sutton-Brown, Feaster
Sting bench: Sam, Darling, Mazzante, Enis
Comet starters: White, Lambert, Thompson, Arcain, Snow
Comet bench: 5th pick, 15th pick, Canty, Phillips
Although if they did turn down Nat Williams and the #2 for the #1 then maybe Charlotte really wants Tan White after all.
Or how about Sheryl to WAS for picks #6 and #13 and Phoenix's #3 pick (assuming that trade happens). A draft haul of Wecker, Lyttle, Jackson and Johnson would really help Houston's age and depth problems.
other scenarios:
SS to Sparks for Mwadi Mabika (surely she's sick of LL after 8 years)
SS to Liberty for Crystal Robinson & Shameka Christon
SS to Silver Stars for LaToya Thomas
SS to Mercury for Penny Taylor (I know the Merc fans are gonna say no to this) |
If the Sting made a trade with the Comets, your proposed lineup will not have TT in the starting lineup. TT won't be into starting lineup shape until the second half of the season. The season is more likely to begin with Phillips, starting at the four. In addition, the Comets would definitely start Johnson (with the fifth pick) over Lambert.
G- Johnson
G- White
F- Arcain
F- Phillips
C- Snow
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Keegan
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
Posts: 6861
Location: The Cathedral of Snark
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| Posted: 04/13/05 1:50 am ::: Re: Sheryl's Trade Value? |
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| Futurama wrote: |
| SS to Mercury for Penny Taylor (I know the Merc fans are gonna say no to this) |
Uhuh!
I don't think there's any point in trading for Sheryl unless you think she'll make you a real championship contender this year. Otherwise what's the point of giving up good younger players? The only team that would really qualify for this is L.A and I don't think they will feel compelled to trade for Sheryl, especially after trading for the Claw. Seattle and Connecticut don't have anything much to trade and I don't think Detroit would particularly want her. Sacramento might want her - Brunson and Powell for Sheryl?
However, I think SS will a Comet for 2005.
Last edited by Keegan on 04/13/05 2:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Futurama
Joined: 09 Apr 2005
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| Posted: 04/13/05 1:58 am ::: Re: Sheryl's Trade Value? |
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yeah i know Tina won't be ready to start till probably July if not August. I just meant 5 starters in general. Also I don't think Van would start two rookies in the backcourt at the same time.
alright forget Penny how about SS to PHO for DeForge + #3 ?
Doesn't seem like you guys want Chas Melvin and a future pick.
The Merc could be contenders with this lineup
F: Taylor , Wright
F: Pierson, Jackson
C: Vodichkova, Tuvic
G: Taurasi, Cross
G: Swoopes, Moore
Last edited by Futurama on 04/13/05 2:14 am; edited 1 time in total |
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threefrom60
Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 2576
Location: Olympia, WA
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| Posted: 04/13/05 2:03 am ::: |
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| I want an honest opinion here. Would Sheryl be good for the Storm, if they could find any way to get her? Apart from trading Bird, Jackson, Lennox, or Burse, would a 3 of at her age be a good idea for the long run... would she help in the short run? I'm purely curious here. Usually I have a firm opinion but in this, I'm just curious. I know that a couple hardcore Stormfans were salivating over the idea of Swoopes in Storm green after Sheri left. We do need veteran leadership, we do need perimeter defense, but is she still worth the money? Maybe for one year? It'll never happen. But would it be good or bad if it did?
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Keegan
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
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Location: The Cathedral of Snark
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| Posted: 04/13/05 2:11 am ::: |
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| I think SS would be great for the Storm in the short run with her smarts and leadership but the Storm have nothing to trade for her. I don't know when her contract expires but would the Comets let her get away for nothing? I doubt it. |
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Futurama
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MT_Swoopes
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/13/05 2:32 am ::: Re: Sheryl's Trade Value? |
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| Futurama wrote: |
Also I don't think Van would start two rookies in the backcourt at the same time.
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Van would definitely start a backcourt of Johnson/White over Lambert/White. He is very high on Johnson starting immediately. He isn't that big of fan of Lambert's, regardless of how many years she's been in the league. I'd take Johnson's floor game over Lambert's, right now. Lambert is a turnover machine, who needs to make the fantastic pass. It doesn't have to be that hard. Johnson is the type of point guard that he much prefers over Lambert.
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Smoovie
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
Posts: 3960
Location: H-Town
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| Posted: 04/13/05 2:45 am ::: |
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The Comet's priority this year is to sell tickets. Sure they want to win, but they also have to be realistic about their chances this season. If they can't get a player who's going to make a impact at the box-office, they won't make the deal. This is a rebuilding year for them and they want a smooth transition. Fact, when the rumor got out that Swoopes was on the trading block, it was like a storm of destruction ran through the sales department in Cometland. That wasn't smooth and they heard the fans loud and clear. They couldn't even take care of Rockets business, that day. The phone lines were all tied up, with complaints about Van. I also know a couple of sales reps that agree with Kilzer %110 (off the record of course)
Sales reps are calling for renewals on season tickets, and getting response like "I'm going to wait and see what the Comets do with the Swoopes situation" or "I heard Van is trading Swoopes, if he does, I'm done with this team"_________________ (¯`v´¯ 
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(¸.•´ (¸.•´ .•´ ¸¸.•¨¯`•.•´*~Smoov |
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wadethered
Joined: 28 Nov 2004
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jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 04/13/05 3:10 am ::: Re: Sheryl's Trade Value? |
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| Futurama wrote: |
Lobo and Lieberman both claim Sheryl Swoopes is on the trading block.
Would the Sting give up the #1 pick for her? Van likes Tan.
Swoopes and Staley have been in 3 Olympics together and Sheryl
would be more immediate help for Charlotte than the rookie.
Sting starters: Swoopes, Staley, T.Smith, Sutton-Brown, Feaster
Sting bench: Sam, Darling, Mazzante, Enis
Comet starters: White, Lambert, Thompson, Arcain, Snow
Comet bench: 5th pick, 15th pick, Canty, Phillips
Although if they did turn down Nat Williams and the #2 for the #1 then maybe Charlotte really wants Tan White after all.
Or how about Sheryl to WAS for picks #6 and #13 and Phoenix's #3 pick (assuming that trade happens). A draft haul of Wecker, Lyttle, Jackson and Johnson would really help Houston's age and depth problems.
other scenarios:
SS to Sparks for Mwadi Mabika (surely she's sick of LL after 8 years)
SS to Liberty for Crystal Robinson & Shameka Christon
SS to Silver Stars for LaToya Thomas
SS to Mercury for Penny Taylor (I know the Merc fans are gonna say no to this) |
Not an expert on these scenarios actually but here's what I think about at least these you're proposing. They're way too light in terms of Swoopes's value.
I would argue that she's worth more than the #1 pick but that's just me. She's certainly worth FAR more than only Mabika. Sparks get Swoopes they get the whole enchilada. The rest just isn't even close to approximating her value in a trade. Swoopes for C-Rob and Shameka Christon? No way. Swoopes straight up for Penny Taylor? What's left of the Houston faithful would burn the place down.
Swoopes has at least two years left playing at near the peak of her abilities and quite possibly much more time than that. She's been roughed up now by life and I think that's going to produce an attitude on the court that reflects her need, at this point, to get her game back to the highest levels. She's got something to prove once again. People are motivated by what they don't have and it seems at this point that Swoopes's stock is at an all time low.
Your Majesty if you're reading this... make them all pay!
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: 04/13/05 3:25 am ::: |
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Penny Taylor is over 10 years younger than Sheryl Swoopes. Swoopes *might* have two good years left, but she does have a history of injuries.
Penny is untradeable, unless Alana Beard is coming to Phoenix.
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Keegan
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
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Location: The Cathedral of Snark
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| Posted: 04/13/05 4:05 am ::: Re: Sheryl's Trade Value? |
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| jammerbirdi wrote: |
| Swoopes has at least two years left playing at near the peak of her abilities and quite possibly much more time than that. |
"Near the peak"? She was quite off it last year and I doubt it's coming back.
I have to agree with Smoovie - Sheryl will stay in Houston due to her pulling power, no matter what Van's addled mind might think. |
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jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 04/13/05 5:59 am ::: Re: Sheryl's Trade Value? |
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| Keegan wrote: |
| jammerbirdi wrote: |
| Swoopes has at least two years left playing at near the peak of her abilities and quite possibly much more time than that. |
"Near the peak"? She was quite off it last year and I doubt it's coming back. |
I don't doubt it one bit, Keegan. She's simply not that old. Her injuries and the loss of some of her game absolutely can't be attributed to age. That makes me laugh out loud. You don't slip that fast, and certainly not playing basketball. I didn't say she'd be AT her peak, I said she'd be near the peak (I didn't mean peak in terms of her prime, I just meant playing at not far below her best) of her abilities.
Now... regarding her being off last year versus Penny Taylor any day of the week...
Swoopes had a bad year, PT had as good a year as she's ever had... and yet Swoopes and PT were 13-14 in Efficiancy ranking. So PT at her best is like Swoopes at her worst. That's the way I see it anyway. 
And Swoopes had her in PPG, RPG, APG and SPG.
Look what the Mystics gave up to get Milton. They're gambling that Milton is going to do better for them than Holdsclaw. Holdsclaw has more years left, I think, than Milton does. They're not really that far apart in age but Milton has had a very serious ACL.
They're being overly optiMystic if you ask me. But Swoopes is much more likely to produce on an MVP level than PT is or Mabika or Milton, etc.
You guys are writing her off as old news. It's premature. She's been in a MID career slump, that's all. What I saw last year wasn't just physical... it was desire and interest and distraction etc., and whatever it was she's going to get over it.
Last edited by jammerbirdi on 04/13/05 6:02 am; edited 1 time in total |
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jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 04/13/05 6:00 am ::: Re: Sheryl's Trade Value? |
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| Keegan wrote: |
| jammerbirdi wrote: |
| Swoopes has at least two years left playing at near the peak of her abilities and quite possibly much more time than that. |
"Near the peak"? She was quite off it last year and I doubt it's coming back. |
I don't doubt it one bit, Keegan. She's simply not that old. Her injuries and the loss of some of her game absolutely can't be attributed to age. That makes me laugh out loud. You don't slip that fast, and certainly not playing basketball. I didn't say she'd be AT her peak, I said she'd be near the peak (I didn't mean peak in terms of her prime, I just meant playing at not far below her best) of her abilities.
Now... regarding her being off last year versus Penny Taylor any day of the week...
Swoopes had a bad year, PT had as good a year as she's ever had... and yet Swoopes and PT were 13-14 in Efficiancy ranking. So PT at her best is like Swoopes at her worst. That's the way I see it anyway.
And Swoopes had her in PPG, RPG, APG and SPG.
Look what the Mystics gave up to get Milton. They're gambling that Milton is going to do better for them than Holdsclaw. Holdsclaw has more years left, I think, than Milton does. They're not really that far apart in age but Milton has had a very serious ACL.
They're being overly optiMystic if you ask me. But Swoopes is much more likely to produce on an MVP level than PT is or Mabika or Milton, etc.
You guys are writing her off as old news. It's premature. She's been in a MID career slump, that's all. What I saw last year wasn't just physical... it was desire and interest and distraction etc., and whatever it was she's going to get over it.
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Keegan
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
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Location: The Cathedral of Snark
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| Posted: 04/13/05 6:13 am ::: Re: Sheryl's Trade Value? |
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| jammerbirdi wrote: |
I didn't say she'd be AT her peak, I said she'd be near the peak (I didn't mean peak in terms of her prime, I just meant playing at not far below her best) of her abilities.
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Well we're referring to different things in this case. I thought you were referring to peak/prime.
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| Swoopes is much more likely to produce on an MVP level than PT is or Mabika or Milton |
Not now she's not.
No one is writing her off. Sheryl is still a good player. From the other side, you seem to be overrating her quite a bit. I'm not sure those "issues" you refer to are gone either.
As for "mid-career slump", she's 34 this year and it seems the deterioration of numbers has started. As pointed out, Penny is 10 years younger and in the short-term Sheryl may be better, but in the long-term Penny will be more productive. I assume the Comets will be looking at any potential trade with a long-term view.
Of course, this trade isn't going to happen so we both can be relieved!
Last edited by Keegan on 04/13/05 8:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
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KeiraNY
Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 12683
Location: New York, NY
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| Posted: 04/13/05 8:06 am ::: Re: Sheryl's Trade Value? |
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I wouldn't mind having Swoopes on the Libs but NOT for both C-Rob & Meka. Sheryl needs a breather after all and having no back up for her would mean having the same problem we had last year before drafting Meka.
However, I don't think this is possible for the Libs since Sheryl is on her way down (age-wise) and both C-Rob & Meek are younger. If it was Swoopes for C-Rob and a draft pick, perhaps! But not for both.
| Futurama wrote: |
Lobo and Lieberman both claim Sheryl Swoopes is on the trading block.
Would the Sting give up the #1 pick for her? Van likes Tan.
Swoopes and Staley have been in 3 Olympics together and Sheryl
would be more immediate help for Charlotte than the rookie.
Sting starters: Swoopes, Staley, T.Smith, Sutton-Brown, Feaster
Sting bench: Sam, Darling, Mazzante, Enis
Comet starters: White, Lambert, Thompson, Arcain, Snow
Comet bench: 5th pick, 15th pick, Canty, Phillips
Although if they did turn down Nat Williams and the #2 for the #1 then maybe Charlotte really wants Tan White after all.
Or how about Sheryl to WAS for picks #6 and #13 and Phoenix's #3 pick (assuming that trade happens). A draft haul of Wecker, Lyttle, Jackson and Johnson would really help Houston's age and depth problems.
other scenarios:
SS to Sparks for Mwadi Mabika (surely she's sick of LL after 8 years)
SS to Liberty for Crystal Robinson & Shameka Christon
SS to Silver Stars for LaToya Thomas
SS to Mercury for Penny Taylor (I know the Merc fans are gonna say no to this) |
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4ever_bball_fan
Joined: 20 Dec 2004
Posts: 6125
Location: Houston
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| Posted: 04/13/05 8:31 am ::: |
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| Houston fans might take a trade of Swoopes to LA for Mabika and Thomas. I just can't imagine the Number 22 Jersey retiring in any other building but the Toyota Center next to Numbers 10 and 14.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 04/13/05 8:34 am ::: |
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| 4ever_bball_fan wrote: |
| Houston fans might take a trade of Swoopes to LA for Mabika and Thomas. I just can't imagine the Number 22 Jersey retiring in any other building but the Toyota Center next to Numbers 10 and 14. |
Houston fans won't take Mabika, period. She's more hated in H-town than anyone, including Lisa Leslie.
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I ain't got a home
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4ever_bball_fan
Joined: 20 Dec 2004
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Location: Houston
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| Posted: 04/13/05 8:48 am ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| 4ever_bball_fan wrote: |
| Houston fans might take a trade of Swoopes to LA for Mabika and Thomas. I just can't imagine the Number 22 Jersey retiring in any other building but the Toyota Center next to Numbers 10 and 14. |
Houston fans won't take Mabika, period. She's more hated in H-town than anyone, including Lisa Leslie. |
Only because she kicks our butts everytime she comes to town. Who ever dreamed that Tari Phillips would be in Comets Red, either? If Comets fans really want the Fifth One for the Thumb, the scenario with LA makes plenty of sense. Getting Thomas will bolster the roster with young post talent, something sorely lacking.
Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
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SORF
Joined: 06 Jan 2005
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4ever_bball_fan
Joined: 20 Dec 2004
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| Posted: 04/13/05 3:30 pm ::: |
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Maybe that is why Van has Tracy Reid and Vanessa Nygaard in camp...to bolster up the three spot. Arcain can play the three, but I like her at the two on the Comets. We learned last year that Canty cannot play the three, at least at this point in her career, so if Her Majesty wants to get uber-political this year, there might be more than Octavia Blue there to at least put a team on the floor.
Sheryl had a lot on her plate at the beginning of last season. This year, Tina will be out for the start and Swoopes can really come out and make this her team. One has to wonder how badly she still wants to win a Championship in Houston that does not have Cynthia Cooper associated with it. That alone could motivate her beyond anything we have seen in the past.
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jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 04/13/05 6:37 pm ::: |
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| 4ever_bball_fan wrote: |
Maybe that is why Van has Tracy Reid and Vanessa Nygaard in camp...to bolster up the three spot. Arcain can play the three, but I like her at the two on the Comets. We learned last year that Canty cannot play the three, at least at this point in her career, so if Her Majesty wants to get uber-political this year, there might be more than Octavia Blue there to at least put a team on the floor.
Sheryl had a lot on her plate at the beginning of last season. This year, Tina will be out for the start and Swoopes can really come out and make this her team. |
I was going to say something to this effect but I really hate to bring up old boogers... especially with the spectre of my old MSNBC posts being archived for all the world to read at any minute... but Swoopes had COOPER HERSELF on her plate at the beginning of last year, getting along with Cooper, making room for Cooper, walking on eggshells around Cooper, mentally trying to put back together the old machine with Cooper, hoping and dreaming of winning another championship with Cooper, etc. ad nauseum.
And then, POOF, Cooper retires. That absolutely HAD to be an even bigger let down to the team than it was to all of us Comet fans. (I ranted forever about Cooper's minutes in those first games and still believe she could have finished a productive season if there was half a brain between her and the coach... but there isn't and wasn't and that's another story.)
Add all the rest, the personal and yes, Swoopes's season started strange and went down hill from there.
Just think back to 2002 and the WCs in China. She was the best player in the world or co-best player in the world. You could still see the clear difference then between Swoopes and the pack of other WNBA stars.
Wasn't she MVP and DPOY in 2002? (How quickly even the jammer forgets.) 2002 people. MVP and DPOY. DPOY in 2003. Last year was 2004 and this is only 4 months into 2005 (for all of you on the juice who seem to be losing track. Keira give the Coronas a break! ) This isn't 2010! Swoopes has one sub-par season and you guys just yank the mantle of greatness away from her and start talking about Penny Taylor and Mwadi Mabika.
People the jammer has taxes to take care of. Don't get me riled up now defending Her Majesty or I'm going to end up being some IRS guy's bitch.
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If she does, I will be thoroughly disappointed in her.