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dtsnms
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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 Posted: 04/01/05 1:38 pm ::: Pope Reportedly Passes Away, But It's Denied As Well |
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| No official confirm yet.
Last edited by dtsnms on 04/01/05 2:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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sambista
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| Posted: 04/01/05 1:52 pm ::: |
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cnn's banner says: "conflicting reports among italian media about pope's condition." and they're talking about an italian wire report - unconfirmed - about an eeg (which monitors brain waves) having been reported to show no cerebral activity. cnn is saying that, based on reports they're getting, the pope has NOT died, and now speculation that the eeg report is not true either.
sheesh.
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dtsnms
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| Posted: 04/01/05 1:57 pm ::: |
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Yahoo's front page is "Pope Reportedly Dead". That's where I got it.
I wish they would let the man have some peace and not report every infection, bleeder, tube, etc. that he's got going on...
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sambista
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| Posted: 04/01/05 1:59 pm ::: |
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ap is now reporting that the vatican denies that the pope has died.
i'm not at odds with you, dts. this is clearly a confusing situation, it's nighttime there, and they're saying that officials in washington are watching tv to get their news! garbage in, garbage out.
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dtsnms
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| Posted: 04/01/05 2:01 pm ::: |
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| sebibb wrote: |
ap is now reporting that the vatican denies that the pope has died.
i'm not at odds with you, dts. this is clearly a confusing situation, it's nighttime there, and they're saying that officials in washington are watching tv to get their news! garbage in, garbage out. |
I realize that bibb, I know what you meant, and I'm in agreement with you. It's out of hand, and that's why I made my comment about let the man have some peace and let him pass with privacy.
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dtsnms
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| Posted: 04/01/05 2:03 pm ::: |
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| and now yahoo has changed it's web page to reflect that he's still alive!
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4ever_bball_fan
Joined: 20 Dec 2004
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| Posted: 04/01/05 2:05 pm ::: |
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The Vatican is very closed lip when this situation arises, as I recall when previous Pope's have died. He is a Head of State, as it were, and they are very careful in what is said.
Someone who is Roman Cathlic could probably shed more light on the situation.
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sambista
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| Posted: 04/01/05 2:05 pm ::: |
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| dtsnms wrote: |
| I wish they would let the man have some peace and not report every infection, bleeder, tube, etc. that he's got going on... |
i hear what you're saying, dts, but in this case i thought it was legitimate because it lent, well, legitimacy to the speculation that john paul was just days, maybe hours, away from death. that he was suffering one setback after another was evidence of what they called "septic" infection, i think it was, that his system was shutting down bit by bit. i suppose if all that had not been explained, some people out there would be accusing the media of unnecessary dire warnings.
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sambista
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| Posted: 04/01/05 2:11 pm ::: |
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| i'm not religious in a conventional way, but i hope god doesn't strike me dead anyway, for my stream-of-consciousness associations between this situation (a pope who is fighting death tooth and nail) that has the potential of being right out of revelation, and the story line of my favorite show "carnivale," which is dramatizing good vs. evil and where "evil" is cast as a man of god. if the pope "dies" and somehow comes back to life (if only as a function of media transference) . . . i can't say any more, for fear of hearing lightning bolts outside my window!
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PARAGON
Joined: 28 Mar 2005
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| Posted: 04/01/05 4:01 pm ::: |
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| I am surprised you talk about Pope here. Nice. That means He is a great person. Pope - Karol Wojtyla - will always live in Polish hearts, hope you will sigh, too.
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dtsnms
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| Posted: 04/01/05 4:10 pm ::: |
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| PARAGON wrote: |
| I am surprised you talk about Pope here. Nice. That means He is a great person. Pope - Karol Wojtyla - will always live in Polish hearts, hope you will sigh, too. |
There's not too many facets of life that don't get discussed on this board at some point in some way!
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sambista
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| Posted: 04/01/05 5:29 pm ::: |
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| PARAGON wrote: |
| I am surprised you talk about Pope here. Nice. That means He is a great person. Pope - Karol Wojtyla - will always live in Polish hearts, hope you will sigh, too. |
in my humble opinion, regardless of religious and political disagreements, he is a great man. i see our world, america in particular, as woefully lacking moral fiber, and i'm talking about the most basic kindnesses and courtesies toward one another. i don't see john paul as a religious leader so much as a man who tried to shine a light on the potential goodness in humankind. now, just to illustrate how morally depleted we are, i gotta say that even to me that sounds really, REALLY like a bunch of hokum. so that he could be that kind of leader in a time as we have now, well . . . i've been watching this all day, and the anecdotes from a wide swath of people got me kinda choked up at times, his little expressions of . . . basic human goodness. i'm sure his successor will pale by comparison.
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Keegan
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/01/05 6:37 pm ::: |
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| sebibb wrote: |
| in my humble opinion, regardless of religious and political disagreements, he is a great man. i see our world, america in particular, as woefully lacking moral fiber, and i'm talking about the most basic kindnesses and courtesies toward one another. i don't see john paul as a religious leader so much as a man who tried to shine a light on the potential goodness in humankind. now, just to illustrate how morally depleted we are, i gotta say that even to me that sounds really, REALLY like a bunch of hokum. so that he could be that kind of leader in a time as we have now, well . . . i've been watching this all day, and the anecdotes from a wide swath of people got me kinda choked up at times, his little expressions of . . . basic human goodness. i'm sure his successor will pale by comparison. |
Hmm after his lovely edicts (rants) about homosexuality, I'm inclined to think otherwise.
I view most religious institutions as lacking in moral fibre and that comes straight from the top.
FWIW, I am officially a Roman Catholic. |
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sambista
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| Posted: 04/01/05 7:26 pm ::: |
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| Keegan wrote: |
| Hmm after his lovely edicts (rants) about homosexuality, I'm inclined to think otherwise. |
i don't endorse everything he has espoused, but let s/he who is blessed with complete enlightenment cast the first stone . . .
| Keegan wrote: |
| I view most religious institutions as lacking in moral fibre and that comes straight from the top. |
that certainly has been a big part of the decline.
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Keegan
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| Posted: 04/01/05 7:45 pm ::: |
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| sebibb wrote: |
i don't endorse everything he has espoused, but let s/he who is blessed with complete enlightenment cast the first stone . . .
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I'm more than willing to cast the first stone. I don't pretend to be holy or enlightened while most religious personages generally try to. They're no more holy, moral or gracious than you and I. |
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BCBG25
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| Posted: 04/02/05 9:23 pm ::: |
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I'm a Roman Catholic too (aren't we all in Brazil???). I don't really go to church and I don't read the Bible. In short, I don't practice Catholicism.
Even tho I've been estranged from the church for years, the message is crystal clear to me: there's no redemption without suffering. It's a beautiful and at the same time, it's a terrible message. And Christianity was built on it. What he tried to do, in my opinion, was to restore that in the age of hedonism we live in. He bore his cross for the world to see.
You may not agree with his positions on many instances, but it's impossible not to admire him for his courage in health and sickness. In life and death.
RIP John Paul.
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sambista
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| Posted: 04/02/05 9:31 pm ::: |
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| i wondered, bcbg, what the reaction would be in brazil. will businesses close for the weekend? what? i and a friend had planned to check out a new brazilian place on restaurant row today (that was before this nasty rain/wind storm), and it occurred to me the place might actually close anyway.
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BCBG25
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| Posted: 04/02/05 9:41 pm ::: |
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Well, bibb, think about this: there are 1.2 billion Roman Catholics in the world and 133 million live in Brazil. I haven't talked to my parents yet to see what the reaction has been like there, but both are pretty sad about it. I know my dad was going to cut short a trip to go to church on Sunday night to pray for his health. Too late.
About the weather, damn. Did you see all the broken umbrellas all over the city tonight???
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sambista
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| Posted: 04/02/05 9:56 pm ::: |
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| the weather today was downright brutal. we've had 40-some inches of snow and now this. i have only ventured out to walk my dog today, and she didn't even wanna be out there! the wind was so bad, i could see the water rolling off the streets. i don't understand why everyone tries to be so cute with these fancy, expensive, worthless umbrellas. if there's anyone out there who's fed up with worthless umbrellas, look online for the shedrain windpro. i got one four years ago from nordstrom in seattle (they know from rain), and it has never once flinched in the wind.
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herrade
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| Posted: 04/03/05 7:23 am ::: |
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| sebibb wrote: |
i don't endorse everything he has espoused, but let s/he who is blessed with complete enlightenment cast the first stone . . .
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wow... if we wait for that we'll never have any dissent or social dialogue. i understand the pope was holy, that he fought communism, that he tended to his flock, but the man signed off on some virulently homophobic and misogynist policies. particularly given that the chuch has been revisiting its high-colonialist missionizing project in the "third world", the stance on birth control is downright irresponsible and fatally reckless. (i'm referring to the AIDS pandemic here.)
i'm recalling the lionization of reagan when he died. these moments are usually time for the conservative forces in society to wipe out the legacy of injustice and struggle. it's hard to bear.
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Luuuc
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| Posted: 04/03/05 8:33 am ::: |
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| Amen, herrade!!
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sambista
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| Posted: 04/03/05 9:58 am ::: |
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| it was probably folly to share thoughts about something so politically and religiously charged here on this board. but i'll risk stepping in it further one more time to be very clear. as an aside, i don't happen to think reagan was a great man. far from it. he was wildly popular, nothing more. but about john paul, even if it had been in his heart to do so, it is wholly unrealistic to expect the most high repesentative of the roman catholic church to throw down the gauntlet against the very tenets that make the roman catholic church exactly what it is. thank god we have the free will to embrace catholicism or reject it. and perhaps we will live to see the day when a sea change occurs within the church regarding homosexuality, contraception and abortion, to name some of the most incendiary issues. but john paul wasn't tapped 26 years ago to reform the church; he was chosen to uphold it. and don't think for a second that what he did do and say regarding the holocaust, social injustice, neglect of the poor, missionary zeal, etc., was not revolutionary. it was. if he had taken a similar stand in an earlier era, they may well have burned the heretic at the stake. yes, of course, he could have tried to do more, but what he failed to do - his flaws and blind spots, as some of us perceive them - doesn't erase what he accomplished. in the context of his role, his obligation to the church, we should not have expected anything of him at all. in the context of his obligation, he pushed the envelope. i choose to remain opposed to many things he believed, but i also choose to acknowledge what he did to champion the cause of the underrepresented.
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BCBG25
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| Posted: 04/03/05 11:07 am ::: |
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Amen, bibb!
It's really ridiculous to compare Reagan's legacy to that of Jonh Paul's.
If you had chosen a better example, maybe I could take it more seriously.
He stood for what the church embraces. It's unrealistic that he still defended sex only after marriage, attacked abortion and contraceptive methods, but he has a book to live by. I don't see the Catholic Church EVER changing their position on those issues. They won't change dramatically to embrace the world around them, and that's part of why I'm estranged from the Church. Again, don't shoot the messenger.
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pilight
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BCBG25
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| Posted: 04/03/05 11:18 am ::: |
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I was wondering when you'd put your score here, pilight...that's a very fucked up pastime.
Didn't Max Schmeling and Yaser Arafat die??? That's not updated...
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