RebKell's Junkie Boards

[CamrnCrz1974]

Liberty played Rene Portland, and I could only pray for an earthquake.

[Kelli]

Do you KNOW that the players and/or coaches for Liberty are homophobes?

[sbjules]

[CamrnCrz1974]

The school is, and plenty of the fans were (since I attended the Duke-Liberty game).

Again, with Liberty against Rene Portland, all I could do was pray for the earthquake.

[Kelli]

[CamrnCrz1974]

You can hear comments in a crowd of Liberty fans. As for PSU, Rene Portland's comments are a matter of public record.

BABAGOI, Kelli.

[Kelli]

I'm well aware of Rene's comments. But, holding you to your assinine assignment of Liberty players and coaches being homophobes, you would have to take the next step and say that since Rene is, then her players are as well. That's just stupid.

IOW, if you think that players are going to go to a school based ONLY on the beliefs of the founder/president, than why not take the next step and think that players are going to go to a school based on the beliefs of the coach. You know the coach, the person that they will have more contact with than the founder/president of the university!

I haven't talked to any of the players, but I have talked to Kelley Deyo and watched her in many interactions with fans. NOTHING I ever heard or saw from her (or her family who I talked to more than Kelley) would lead me to believe that she is a homophobe.

My closest reference is the nearby college and theological seminary. What I have heard is from people that have attended or that have chosen not to. The students are required to sign a contract dictating their behavior (no smoking, drugs, alcohol, extra-marital sex, etc, etc, etc. Staff members and students are not allowed to divorce or they will be dismissed. Up until a few years ago, females were not allowed to wear pants). Although they ALL sign it, very few follow it. In fact, I just heard the other day that a plumbing contractor has to make a couple of trips a year to unclog the septic system due to all of the discarded condoms!!!

After 'interviewing' you, I will take the same 'liberty' that you have taken and lable you PARANOID and JUDGEMENTAL. So if anybody is needing to get out the construction materials, I think that it should be you.

[4ever_bball_fan]

Kelli, check you pm's.

[Hate posting that, but few seem to on this board, in my limited experience]

[womens_hoops]

I know Kelley Deyo's family pretty well. Her brother was one of my best friends in high school. Kelley played hoops with my sis.

They are a great family. Awesome people. Very devoted to the community. They are also deeply devoted and (I think) conservative Christians.

I've never had the chance to ask them what their views on homosexuality are. I would guess that their views on homosexuality probably don't remotely match my own, and I'd be a little bit afraid to hear what they'd say if I asked them. But I don't know.

Given the million hideous things Falwell has said in his life, I can't imagine playing or coaching basketball at his school. Given Rene's past, I can't imagine playing hoops for her either. People who make different choices aren't necessarily homophobes... but they probably don't have a great commitment to the cause of equality for gay people.

That's a strike against them, in my book. I like Kelley Deyo a lot -- haven't seen her now in a couple years, but from the past, I always thought she was a great woman. Still, the fact that she's coaching at Liberty is a strike against her in my book.

Everytime I see her out there it's a mix of feelings -- very happy that she's doing so well, and pretty sad that it's at Liberty.

[4ever_bball_fan]

So which would you prefer...Deyo stays with "her kind" at Liberty, or goes out and offends those who differ with her perceived/supposed position?

It seems to me, if she stays at Falwell U, she isn't putting anyone else in an uncomfortable position. Or is she damned if she does, damned if she doesn't in women's athletics?

[Kelli]

[inky]

A lot of the Hitler Youth just "went along" because the uniforms were snappy and they got perqs in their communities. They would never dream of killing Jews. Or retarded people. Or Gypsies. Or homosexuals. Or handicapped people.

A lot of KKK see themselves as members of a social organization. They would never paint themselves as bigots, they're just there to hang out with the boys. They would never dream of burning a black person's house.

I'm sure there were nice people associated with the Nazi Party, just as I'm sure that there are nice people associated with the KKK. But by their membership, there is at least tacit support of the very political stands these organizations take.

Fallwell's rules strike me as political and not faith-based.

+++
Totally aside from this, I'd like to add that if students at Fallwell have signed an agreement that they would follow the rules of the school and performs actions that fly in the face of the agreement, then when kind of people does that make them?

[CamrnCrz1974]

[Kelli]

[CamrnCrz1974]

If you cannot figure out the tenets of the university and cannot understand the nature of students, religious studies, etc., then I cannot help you. Personally, you just cannot get over the possibility that my comments might have the slightest discussion of Kelly included in them.

[Kelli]

[CamrnCrz1974]

Where did I take a pot shot at Kelly? I didn't. Your interpretation that I did doesn't make it true.

[Kelli]

[CamrnCrz1974]

[womens_hoops]

Kelli, I'm afraid you're letting my friend (and yourself) off a little too easily.

Everyone knows Falwell's feelings -- he is one of the most vicious public homophobes in the country. If you object, then you have a responsibility to stand up and say so.

If you think he's deeply wrong, you either shouldn't go to his school, or you should at least stand up and say "I'm going to this school, but I don't agree with his position on this, and I will do my best to convince my fellow students/teammates/players that gay people are deserving of dignity."

The question is: what have you done to further the cause of equality? When have you stood up?

I know Cam's answer to this -- he doesn't need to earn any credibility with me. You do. So does the Siemon-Deyo family, and anyone else, whether they are old friends of mine or not.

[Kelli]

[Kelli]

So Cam, when are you going to answer my questions?

Do you research each and every one of the companies and organizations that you deal with to find out their politics and then if they don't agree with yours, not patronize them because of it???? Have you never worked for someone who's politics that you didn't agree with 100%?? Do you only have friends that share your beliefs 100%??? What about family members? Do you exclude those that might think homosexuality is wrong???

And when are you going to admit that you called the entire Liberty team and staff homophobes??

It's plain and simple--you're a bigot. Your bigotry is based on your hatred. That makes you no better than Falwell. Can you not see that?? You can stand up for your beliefs without being a bigot and full of hatred. It WILL consume you eventually.

[womens_hoops]

well, I'll make another effort to reduce the hysteria of this thread. In vain, no doubt.

Kelli, I'll admit that I probably hate Falwell. More in a joking sort of way, though. He's a big fat bigoted old pig. The funny thing is that he's mostly in it for the money, which makes him a little more harmless. So really, I'm not even sure I hate him.

I don't hate you, much less the Kelley Deyo. Still friends, good ones, despite the differences.

The thing is, though -- there's not much point in debating these things unless you share at least some common ground on the issue. Differences can only be understood against some background of agreement. That's just sort of the nature of language and argument.

That's what I mean about earning credibility. If we disagree radically about the underlying issue -- about the status of gay rights -- then there's no real point debating the ancillary issues. If I think gay people are great and someone else thinks they're sinners, then obviously we're going to disagree about Liberty U. There's no point debating Liberty U because we'll never gain any traction on that until we resolve the underlying disagreement.

I gather that you are in the "hate the sin, love the sinner" camp on gay rights. That's a position that many people hold, but it really makes no sense to me, since I'm so far on the other end.

The disagreement between you and me on the underlying issue seems to be so radical that we can't really have an intelligent -- or even an intelligible -- debate on any of the ancillary issues. So all we can do is try to scream at each other and throw insults around, accuse the other of hatred and bigotry, etc. (See posts above.)

What's the point?

[CamrnCrz1974]

Do you research each and every one of the companies and organizations that you deal with to find out their politics and then if they don't agree with yours, not patronize them because of it???? Have you never worked for someone who's politics that you didn't agree with 100%?? Do you only have friends that share your beliefs 100%??? What about family members? Do you exclude those that might think homosexuality is wrong???


The fact that you cannot see the difference between a parochial institution run by a notorious bigot or something you disagree with is your own fault.

And yes, I exclude family members and former friends who think homosexuality is wrong.

[4ever_bball_fan]

To bring this back closer to topic: should perceived homophobes be allowed to play/coach/administer women's basketball?

Is there a place at the table for a player that unashamedly wears a WWJD bracelet in the WNBA Finals and wins the MVP over the last two seasons?