| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
SuziQ
Joined: 27 Nov 2005
Posts: 3078
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Back to top |
 Posted: 05/06/06 12:41 pm ::: |
Reply  |
|
The eradication of corruption in Mexico's government is what I was suggesting before. It's been done here in the USA with some limited success (present administration excluded). I just feel that ultimately, that's the issue. Yes, it's an over-simplification, but it needs to be included in the discussion.
If there was a decent economy in Mexico, and if Mexican citizens had an equal chance to attain employment and business success in their own country, there'd be much less likelyhood that people would be forced, thru grinding poverty and police/political harrassment, to seek opportunities in El Norte. And it's not just Mexico.
I have a customer who is a Mexican national here with a green card. She tells me that the corruption is one of the biggest reasons people come here. She says that when someone tries to start a new business, or expand an existing one, government officials swoop in like vultures, sucking the possibility out of everything.
I understand many of the reasons immigrants come here. But I also feel that to ask for rights in a country not your own when you don't appear to be doing anything to change the conditions in your own country kinda weakens your justifications. If the millions of Mexicans here illegally had all stood together to demand change in their government, there would be much less need to be in the USA. And don't tell me it's impossible - 2 men named Mahatma Ghandi and Martin Luther King taught us all that it IS possible to change a country, a policy, a government.
Blue, you are right regarding gay rights vs. gay marriage. Frankly, I just used that phrase as a "catch-all". I am very concerned about the erosion of my own rights as an American simply because I am gay. Cam, you and I are in agreement - it's something we must address also. My GF and I have decided we would never do a committment ceremony or other such things because 1) we've been committed to each other for over 12 years and feel it's sorta redundant, and 2) at this time it doesn't add a layer of legal protection, so what's the point?
I don't really care about "gay marriage", I want my rights. My right to visit her in the hospital if need be, our right to collect Social Security survivor benefits should one of us pass away, our rights to property and finances, our rights to make legal and medical decisions for each other without question, and so much more.
I've been physically attacked, too (in DuPont Circle in DC, of all places!) for being gay. We all have our stories of hatred and harrassment, and sadly, I don't expect that to ever end. I just want the same rights every straight American citizen has, since I sure as shit pay the same taxes, was born here like them, follow the same laws, love the same flag, and make the same contributions to my country.
_________________
The secret compartment of my ring I fill, with an Underdog super energy pill.
|
|
jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 21046
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/06/06 1:44 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| bluewolfvii wrote: |
Jammer, when I was in my 20s I lived in Tucson for a short time, but long enough to experience first hand some discrimination at the hand of machismo in the Latino culture.
My girlfriend at the time and I were walking to Pima County Community College looking for a living situation with roomates because we didn't have a roof over our heads.
I had no idea what neighborhood we were in -- we were justing walking from Point A to Point B. We were no doubt dressed in the lesbian feminist fashion of the day. I had long hair, but hers was cut short. It was late morning and the sun was searing..almost time for mid-afternoon siesta. We had been getting turned away at job interviews at places like Jack-in-the-Box all morning. It wasn't even noon and -not being used to the place- we were already exhausted.
Several Latino youth, perhaps looking to impress upon the females in their group, came up behind us and started accosting us with vulgarities including one English word, 'Dyke'. We hastened our pace and they pulled up, but someone threw a rock at us.
So you are telling me the climate toward gays hasn't changed much? Well, it hasn't changed in many other parts of the US, either, and not just for Latinos.
Experience tells me that my gay friends and acquaintances are just as likely to be shot at in a bar or found murdered right here in Western PA.
I had the rock thrown at me in the 70s by the Tucson youth, but it was a local resident from Ambridge, PA, who phoned in a death threat to a radio station where I was speaking for gay rights in the 80s.
The Tucson youth yelled a slur, but the year before two Pittsburgh men followed me in their car while I was running on foot. They were yelling out the window they were going to beat me up and rape me-because I had the temerity to tell them to bug off after they verbally accosted me. They were white men and that happened just a few blocks off the Pitt campus. |
Blue. Don't get me started on the people of Western PA. It won't be nice. As I once wrote about Beaver County, racial prejudice is the coin of the realm. Intolerance has no bounds there. There's nothing to even slow it down. But again, you're also talking about an economic pit in terms of class. Like Mexico. Easily some of the most poorly educated white people in the country are right there. I don't know what the dropout rate is there, probably not near what it is in California. But it doesn't matter. That's a culture that reinforces ignorance and intolerance. I was born there and lived there for 28 years excluding a few years of school and other excursions. I think my background and experience living with and coming from a low end working class culture has made me both sensitive and realistic regarding what those cultures are really like.
I live in a city where there are more Mexicans than there are people from any other country. Pretty sure about that. If you replaced Mexicans with just white people from Western Pennsylvania, I would be long gone from this place. We can work with Hispanics. Assimilate them culturally. I'm not for shipping them back to Mexico. They're essential to what makes California what it is. But the "they" thing needs to be sorted out. You can't do that until you lock down the border and start documenting people. We can't have an porous border with Mexico and undocumented citizens running around anymore. That has to be dealt with. We can deal with the particular ignorance of any group of people. We have laws. We're not enforcing them now. Discrimination practiced by immigrants from Mexico is rampant. That is something that has to be discussed and then changed. It's not even being discussed at this point._________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
|
jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 21046
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/06/06 2:06 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Keegan wrote: |
| jammerbirdi wrote: |
| I can't answer that but I'll ask you a question. How are you going to feel if this shakes out in a way that grants those rights and privileges to formerly illegal immigrants who don't even speak English and you STILL don't enjoy them yourself? |
I am extremely offended by this comment, on several levels. It reeks of xenophobia and you do not advance your argument with cheap shots like these. |
Why don't you come off your high horse and explain why and write a sentence or two that illuminates on each of those several levels that you find extremely offensive?
Level 1?
Level 2?
etc.
Instead of a blanket condemnation that, once again, simply attacks me as some sort of 'phobe' or another. I'm writing tons of stuff about real world issues. Just how many of you people are there out there whose only response to all of those concerns I bring up is to write something derogatory about ME?
Plus, keegan. It wasn't a comment. It was a question.
Maybe I'd like to replace the word "feel" with something else because I'm not actually as interested in someone's personal emotional reactions. What I meant and what I'm interested in is how, as a person watching the painfully slow progress of his own institutionally discriminated against group, cam would feel watching people who have come up from Mexico illegally and who are here, basically, to work in the kitchens of the restaurants he eats in, at the car washes where he gets his car washed, etc... people who don't speak the language of that nation he was born in and highly educated in, how he would feel in a political sense seeing those people jump ahead of gays in terms of rights and privileges in the United States.
Cam is the one who brought up HIS concerns about that exact thing in a thread about illegal immigration.
But jammer's the xenophobe for asking for more information?
Some of you people don't know it, maybe will never know it, but apologies are in order. Many of them._________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
|
hooper1
Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 2300
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/06/06 4:08 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Keegan wrote: |
| jammerbirdi wrote: |
| I can't answer that but I'll ask you a question. How are you going to feel if this shakes out in a way that grants those rights and privileges to formerly illegal immigrants who don't even speak English and you STILL don't enjoy them yourself? |
I am extremely offended by this comment, on several levels. It reeks of xenophobia and you do not advance your argument with cheap shots like these. |
I couldn't agree more. The old "he can't even speak English" is one of those ignorant, ethnocentric arguments that is a sure fire sign of a racist (my word, not Keegan's.)
I'm sure there will be a 15-paragraph response to this from the hypergraphic Jammer. Someone is just digging their own grave here.
Enough said.
|
|
CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18371
Location: Phoenix
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/06/06 4:15 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Whoa...Jammer asked a question in response to my comment. And in a sense, he is correct. GLBT Americans will still be second class citizens, no matter what happens with immigration.
|
|
hooper1
Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 2300
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/06/06 4:18 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Americans have been living with millions of illegal immigrants for years... and years and years. At this point, they're part of our culture, our heritage, or everyday lives.
There will ALWAYS be illegal immigrants here. It's not possible to stop them or imprison them or ship them all back (we're too busy spending that money killing Iraqis.) To suggest we should get rid of the immigrants is like calling for abolition. See how well that worked!
But what really bothers me is the venom and hatred spewed at Mexican and/or Spanish-speaking people by certain peoples on this board. Frothing and seething and gnashing your teeth is a waste of time. Your energies are better spent trying to change YOUR government.
|
|
Slovydal
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
Posts: 12205
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/06/06 4:46 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| hooper1 wrote: |
I couldn't agree more. The old "he can't even speak English" is one of those ignorant, ethnocentric arguments that is a sure fire sign of a racist (my word, not Keegan's.)
I'm sure there will be a 15-paragraph response to this from the hypergraphic Jammer. Someone is just digging their own grave here.
Enough said. |
Jammer didn't say, "Can't even speak English" He said they don't speak English.
You know perfectly well that the two statements have entirely different meaning.
If you're going to argue with someone don't misquote them.
As for speaking English, ask immigrants from non-Latin American countries how they feel about Spanish being spoken everywhere in California.
I have. ALL of them feel that latin American immigrants get special treatment and don't have to play by the rules. I'm talking about DOZENS of friends back in LA who came here from other countires LEGALLY and learned English. All of them complained that it was unfair how Hispanics got to just "do their own thing"
Why sould one group of people be separate from everyone else?
|
|
pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66921
Location: Where the action is
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/06/06 5:07 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Slovydal wrote: |
| Jammer didn't say, "Can't even speak English" He said they don't speak English. |
The same was true for first generation European immigrants. What do studies tell us about how English language assimilation? They paint a very different story than Jammer's anecdotal evidence...
http://www.hispanicbusiness.com/news/newsbyid.asp?id=14092&cat=Magazine&more=/magazine/
http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=ViewPrint&articleId=10487
Hispanics follow the same familiar three generation assimilation to English that every other non-English speaking immigrant group has gone through. The first generation speaks a little, maybe, the second is largely bilingual, and the third speaks English exclusively.
Stop with the whole "they don't speak English" BS. If they don't then their kids will, and their grandkids won't speak anything else.
_________________
I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
|
|
pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66921
Location: Where the action is
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/06/06 5:08 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Slovydal wrote: |
| Jammer didn't say, "Can't even speak English" He said they don't speak English. |
The same was true for first generation European immigrants. What do studies tell us about how English language assimilation? They paint a very different story than Jammer's anecdotal evidence...
http://www.hispanicbusiness.com/news/newsbyid.asp?id=14092&cat=Magazine&more=/magazine/
http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=ViewPrint&articleId=10487
Hispanics follow the same familiar three generation assimilation to English that every other non-English speaking immigrant group has gone through. The first generation speaks a little, maybe, the second is largely bilingual, and the third speaks English exclusively.
Stop with the whole "they don't speak English" BS. If they don't then their kids will, and their grandkids won't speak anything else.
_________________
I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
|
|
Slovydal
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
Posts: 12205
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/06/06 5:19 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Tell that to Hispanics in California who are demanding the country to be bi-lingual.
Live in Los Angeles for while, and you'll see what Jammer and I are talking about.
Besides, Pilight, your argument supports my point. There is no reason for one group of people to be separate from the rest.
|
|
pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66921
Location: Where the action is
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/06/06 5:36 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Slovydal wrote: |
| Tell that to Hispanics in California who are demanding the country to be bi-lingual. |
Various immigrants have demanded such things periodically since forever. Pennsylvania had to resort to bilingual schools (English/German) in the 1830's, 20 years later it had ceased to be an issue.
California has a long history of being unfriendly to immigrants. This where the Alien Land Law got started, and where Chinese immigrants couldn't testify against white people in court until the 1940's (a law that dated back to pre-Civil War days) and was only allowed then because of pressure from FDR.
| Quote: |
| your argument supports my point. There is no reason for one group of people to be separate from the rest. |
My point was that they're not separate. They're learning English at the same rate as every other immigrant group that's come here.
_________________
I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
|
|
hooper1
Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 2300
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/06/06 6:29 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Slovydal wrote: |
| hooper1 wrote: |
I couldn't agree more. The old "he can't even speak English" is one of those ignorant, ethnocentric arguments that is a sure fire sign of a racist (my word, not Keegan's.)
I'm sure there will be a 15-paragraph response to this from the hypergraphic Jammer. Someone is just digging their own grave here.
Enough said. |
Jammer didn't say, "Can't even speak English" He said they don't speak English.
You know perfectly well that the two statements have entirely different meaning.
If you're going to argue with someone don't misquote them.
As for speaking English, ask immigrants from non-Latin American countries how they feel about Spanish being spoken everywhere in California.
I have. ALL of them feel that latin American immigrants get special treatment and don't have to play by the rules. I'm talking about DOZENS of friends back in LA who came here from other countires LEGALLY and learned English. All of them complained that it was unfair how Hispanics got to just "do their own thing"
Why sould one group of people be separate from everyone else? |
Ha! This gave me a good laugh! First "Can't even speak English" and "Don't speak English" ARE the same thing. Re-read Jammer's mail.
And your assertion that "ALL" non-Latin American people feel that Latin Americans get special treatment is absurd! I somehow doubt that you've spoken to ALL non-Latin American people... but I'd love to read the scientific date that you've gathered!
And hey, if you don't like the non-English speakers, maybe YOU should find another place to live. Unless you're Native American, it ain't really your country now, is it?
|
|
hooper1
Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 2300
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/06/06 6:37 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Slovydal wrote: |
Tell that to Hispanics in California who are demanding the country to be bi-lingual.
Live in Los Angeles for while, and you'll see what Jammer and I are talking about.
Besides, Pilight, your argument supports my point. There is no reason for one group of people to be separate from the rest. |
FYI, I lived in LA for years. You're right if you're asserting that there's rampant racism there. Oddly, much of it comes from the affluent people who employ non-native English speakers as their gardeners and nannies and cooks.
Would it hurt any of you educated, comfortable, tech-savvy people to take a Spanish or Russian or French or German or Farsi class? Would that really be such a bad thing? We seem to have enough leisure time to peruse the internet and post ad-nauseum on a basketball website. You'd go far in bringing together those alleged "separate" groups.
|
|
jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 21046
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/06/06 6:55 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| hooper1 wrote: |
| Keegan wrote: |
| jammerbirdi wrote: |
| I can't answer that but I'll ask you a question. How are you going to feel if this shakes out in a way that grants those rights and privileges to formerly illegal immigrants who don't even speak English and you STILL don't enjoy them yourself? |
I am extremely offended by this comment, on several levels. It reeks of xenophobia and you do not advance your argument with cheap shots like these. |
I couldn't agree more. The old "he can't even speak English" is one of those ignorant, ethnocentric arguments that is a sure fire sign of a racist (my word, not Keegan's.)
I'm sure there will be a 15-paragraph response to this from the hypergraphic Jammer. Someone is just digging their own grave here.
Enough said. |
You know what, hooper? You're a troll. A few posts back you had the nerve to point out my cursing as if you were a child but you continue to insist that I'm a racist which is what prompted my cursing. You think I'm exposing myself or you're helping somehow to damage my reputation here? Now that's just loopy. I've been the same person on WNBA message boards from the beginning. You're just not used to my candor. It violates the conventionality of your own thinking. It's your own narrowmindedness. You see me saying things that you really can't imagine someone even discussing who isn't a racist. So that's the basis of your conclusion. Your actual understanding of real life issues has you on a very short leash in terms of your capacity to understand and express something as complex and volitile as this topic. You don't have the head for it._________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17
Last edited by jammerbirdi on 05/06/06 7:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 21046
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/06/06 6:58 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| pilight wrote: |
| Slovydal wrote: |
| Jammer didn't say, "Can't even speak English" He said they don't speak English. |
The same was true for first generation European immigrants. What do studies tell us about how English language assimilation? They paint a very different story than Jammer's anecdotal evidence... |
Exactly what "story" about language did I paint with anecdotal evidence?_________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
|
jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 21046
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/06/06 7:29 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| pilight wrote: |
| Slovydal wrote: |
| Tell that to Hispanics in California who are demanding the country to be bi-lingual. |
Various immigrants have demanded such things periodically since forever. Pennsylvania had to resort to bilingual schools (English/German) in the 1830's, 20 years later it had ceased to be an issue.
California has a long history of being unfriendly to immigrants. This where the Alien Land Law got started, and where Chinese immigrants couldn't testify against white people in court until the 1940's (a law that dated back to pre-Civil War days) and was only allowed then because of pressure from FDR.
| Quote: |
| your argument supports my point. There is no reason for one group of people to be separate from the rest. |
My point was that they're not separate. They're learning English at the same rate as every other immigrant group that's come here. |
Why are you pouncing on the language thing anyway, keegan and pilight? I only asked cam a question about how he would feel, what his perspective would be as a highly educated gay man, if he were to see illegal immigrants who don't even speak English afforded full rights and privileges as citizens of the US while his own status in that area remains as it is. Whether you agree with me or not this (and I realize there are a lot of people who feel that California and Arizona are lands stolen from Mexico) I believe this IS cam's country. It is a global struggle and a national struggle for rights for all people on many many fronts. Cam and gay people and black people STILL haven't won that fight here in their own land. And yet, here comes people strolling in illegally to the US, uneducated, unable to speak the language, and we are talking about awarding them full rights not enjoyed by gay Americans. It's a legitimate question I think. And I think Cam primed the pump himself on that issue with his contribution to the thread and has responded along the same lines. Uh... can you hammerheads maybe admit, at least, that he has some concerns.
And then throw into all this the hardwired attitudes toward gays and blacks that these (not Canadians, lol!) THESE particular illegal immigrants are TOTALLY invested in terms of their culture. THEIR culture. We haven't even ironed out the intolerance of our own people and we're now importing a people inculcated with what we call intolerance as an ESSENTIAL lynchpin of their culture.
Hooper (back to you) I just don't know how you can turn away from these concerns, dismiss them out of hand, and then attack my brilliant ass as being a racist for even bringing them up. They need to be brought up. the jammer is the man. you need to shut up.  _________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17
Last edited by jammerbirdi on 05/06/06 7:45 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 21046
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/06/06 7:40 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| hooper1 wrote: |
| And hey, if you don't like the non-English speakers, maybe YOU should find another place to live. Unless you're Native American, it ain't really your country now, is it? |
If we US born citizens don't like non-English speakers we should find another place to live because it ain't really our country now, is it?
You're starting to sound like someone who does laundry once a year._________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
|
hooper1
Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 2300
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/06/06 7:47 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| jammerbirdi wrote: |
| hooper1 wrote: |
| And hey, if you don't like the non-English speakers, maybe YOU should find another place to live. Unless you're Native American, it ain't really your country now, is it? |
If we US born citizens don't like non-English speakers we should find another place to live because it ain't really our country now, is it?
You're starting to sound like someone who does laundry once a year. |
You missed my point. American is a country of diversity. If you want to live in a monolithic country where everyone speaks the same language and looks like the same, then you are free to move to that country. But there's no sense in trying to live in America if you don't want a multi-racial, multi-ethnic community. It is what it is and no amount of whining about non-English speakers is going to change it.
Most all of us were immigrants here at one point or another. We all came speaking different languages with different customs and different religions. That's just how it is.
|
|
Slovydal
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
Posts: 12205
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/06/06 7:51 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| hooper1 wrote: |
And your assertion that "ALL" non-Latin American people feel that Latin Americans get special treatment is absurd! I somehow doubt that you've spoken to ALL non-Latin American people... but I'd love to read the scientific date that you've gathered!
And hey, if you don't like the non-English speakers, maybe YOU should find another place to live. Unless you're Native American, it ain't really your country now, is it? |
Lo siento!
Hooper, now you're misquoting me.
Either you are unwilling or unable to have an adult conversation.
I CLEARLY stated that "all" refered to all of my friends who'd come here from another country. MY personal experience speaking with people that I know.
I'll take first hand experience over so called scientific data any day.
As for saying this "isn't really my country unless I'm Native American..."
You have now reduced your argument to about a 10th grade level.
|
|
jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 21046
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/06/06 7:56 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
I quote my fucking self. Still the best thing I've read here all day.
"Mexican and other latinos from Central America who have crossed the border illegally into this country are a case study in a clash of cultures and values. The unpleasant politically incorrect truths about them haven't even begun to be discussed in regards to this situtation. To even try to initiate a discussion about those things is to guarantee that someone will quickly shout you down as a racist.
How many of you people live in the Southwest or California? How many of you have lived and worked with Hispanics who are new enough to this country to be unable to speak English well? For how long? In what capacity? What is YOUR real world experience? That's what I'm interested in hearing. Truth. Personal stories. Not what you learned in a social anthopology class or from taking sides on TV.
What do you know about the Mexicans that are pouring into your country by the hundreds of thousands if not millions? I've lived in Los Angeles for now, give or take some months here and there, over 20 years. I worked with Mexicans, El Salvadorians, Guatemalans, all for years. Often 10 hour days, 6 day weeks. Not a handful of Hispanics. Hundreds. In a supervisory position. I know the cultures. You guys talk about people as if you know them. I don't think you do. But IF you do, I'd like to hear your practical real world observations.
You're going to get mine in the days to come, you better know that.
How about you, Hooper? What do you know?
What do you know about machismo? Not what YOU think it is... the Americanized macho macho man version. Manly men and all that. What do you think it means to Mexicans? I won't keep you in suspense. It's an absolute essential of Mexican culture. It certainly doesn't mean simply manly male behavior and all that or abusing women but, sorry, those things are in there. But you better know that front and center as a lynchpin of the culture is a VERY conservative attitude toward the acceptable roles of men and women in society and the workplace. This is WHO they are. Have you witnessed this stuff for years, people? Have you had to work around and through it. Have you had to deal with workplace lawsuits involving women over the illegal discriminatory treatment they experienced at the mercy of latino kitchens?
This culture that you're welcoming with open arms is very intolerant. Did you know that? That intolerance is like a wall. Right now in Southern California, in the two places where Latinos and African Americans are forced together, prisons and public schools, there are currently riots or near riots. That's right now. This year. This spring. This week.
I don't have any doubt about what's the driving force behind that tension. You might. That's okay. Maybe you haven't had the decades of upclose experience I've had in the city with the largest concentration of Hispanics in the country. That's okay. Over a month ago on this board I said that what was most ironic about the movie Crash was that the Hispanics were the only characters in the film who did not act out racial intolerance."_________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
|
jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 21046
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/06/06 8:10 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| hooper1 wrote: |
You missed my point. American is a country of diversity. If you want to live in a monolithic country where everyone speaks the same language and looks like the same, then you are free to move to that country. But there's no sense in trying to live in America if you don't want a multi-racial, multi-ethnic community. It is what it is and no amount of whining about non-English speakers is going to change it. |
I missed YOUR point! Where in the wide world did you EVER get the idea that I want to live in a homogoneous "monolithic" country where everyone looks the same? That I haven't chosen and wouldn't have to be torn away from living right here in multi-racial, multi-ethic, multi-lingual Los Angeles?
I'm still amazed at how the incredible and absolutely baseless accusations continue to fly off your keyboard. Is there any limit to your nonsense?
Hooper. You're the custodian of your reputation around here. And you're rapidly becoming the seattles#1birdifan (or whatever the fucker's name is) of Area 51. Back off with the accusations, okay?_________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
|
hooper1
Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 2300
Back to top |
|
Slovydal
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
Posts: 12205
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/06/06 8:59 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Once again you mis-quote.
I said that, not Jammer.
You see how important comprehending English is?
|
|
hooper1
Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 2300
Back to top |
|
Slovydal
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
Posts: 12205
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/06/06 10:19 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
No.
We're both discussing the experience of a combined SIXTY YEARS of living in LA.
We know what we're talking about.
|
|
|
|
