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lilman2782



Joined: 26 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: 04/27/06 12:19 pm    ::: WNBA All-Decade Team Reply Reply with quote

My WNBA All-Decade Team + Other Nominees (from WNBA.com List)
1st Team
G Cynthia Cooper (1)
G Sheryl Swoopes (3)
F Yolanda Griffith (4)
F Lauren Jackson (5)
C Lisa Leslie (2)

2nd Team
G Diana Taurasi (10)
G Katie Smith (7)
F Tina Thompson (8 )
F Chamique Holdsclaw (6)
C Natalie Williams (9)

(All-Time Rank)

Others (in order)
11. Tamika Catchings
12. Sue Bird
13. Jennifer Gillom
14. Dawn Staley
15. Swin Cash
16. Taj McWilliams-Frankiln
17. Nykesha Sales
18. Ticha Penichero
19. Janeth Arcain
20. Teresa Weatherspoon
21. DeLisha Milton-Jones
22. Andrea Stinson
23. Rebecca Lobo
24. Vickie Johnson
25. Shannon Johnson
26. Ruthie Bolton
27. Tamecka Dixon
28. Deanna Nolan
29. Mwadi Mabika
30. Becky Hammon

http://www.wnba.com/history/alldecade_nomineephotos.html


4ever_bball_fan



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PostPosted: 04/27/06 12:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Wow...lots of memories.

Here are my 10:

Cooper
Swoopes
Thompson
Leslie
T-Spoon
Arcain
Gillom
Staley
Griffith
Katie Smith

The young 'uns can wait until next time. I'm stickin' by Grandmama! Stinson got bumped by Griffith.



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sgbur22



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PostPosted: 04/27/06 12:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

How I would rank the top 30:

Cooper
Swoopes
Leslie
L. Jackson
Katie Smith
Yolanda Griffith
Tina Thompson
Holdsclaw
Gillom
Catchings
Taurasi
N. Williams
Bird
Arcain
Milton-Jones
Staley
Sales
McWilliams-Frankiln
Stinson
Cash
Lobo
V. Johnson
S. Johnson
Hammon
Mabika
Bolton
Dixon


MT_Swoopes



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PostPosted: 04/27/06 2:00 pm    ::: Re: WNBA All-Decade Team Reply Reply with quote

Ticha Penichiero*Cynthia Coooper*Sheryl Swoopes*Yolanda Griffith*Lisa Leslie

Teresa Weatherspoon*Katie Smith*Tina Thompson*Natalie Williams*Lauren Jackson


mikey87



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PostPosted: 04/27/06 3:36 pm    ::: Re: WNBA All-Decade Team Reply Reply with quote

MT_Swoopes wrote:
Ticha Penichiero*Cynthia Coooper*Sheryl Swoopes*Yolanda Griffith*Lisa Leslie

Teresa Weatherspoon*Katie Smith*Tina Thompson*Natalie Williams*Lauren Jackson



I agree with yours but NATALIE WILLIAMS?


PUmatty



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PostPosted: 04/27/06 3:41 pm    ::: Re: WNBA All-Decade Team Reply Reply with quote

mikey87 wrote:
MT_Swoopes wrote:
Ticha Penichiero*Cynthia Coooper*Sheryl Swoopes*Yolanda Griffith*Lisa Leslie

Teresa Weatherspoon*Katie Smith*Tina Thompson*Natalie Williams*Lauren Jackson



I agree with yours but NATALIE WILLIAMS?


Absolutely Nat Williams. She is the all-time leading rebounder in women's professional basketball. That alone should do it.


Alepp03



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PostPosted: 04/27/06 3:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So here is an interesting point of interpretation: should ABL numbers matter to the WNBA all-decade team?

If not, Nat is out. If so, Nat is in.

I am trying to avoid making it a 1st and 2nd team thing as I don't feel okay with putting Tina on the second team of a list like this. So here is my ten.

1. Sheryl Swoopes
2. Lisa Leslie
3. Cynthia Cooper
4. Tina Thompson
5. Lauren Jackson
6. Yolanda Griffith
7. Chamique Holdsclaw
8. Natalie Williams
9. Katie Smith
10. Ticha Penichiero

If ABL numbers are not counted, I drop Nat Williams and add one of TSpoon, Sales, Taj, and Catchings, all very hard to keep off of this list. Ticha gets the nod largely in part because of her dominance in the assist column for so long combined with the fact that she won a championship.

Keesha being an All-Star for basically 8 years in a row is amazing. Catch's impact in half the decade is awesome, but just not enough yet. Taj has just been so consistently good aside from the pregnancy year, but just not good enough. TSpoon's "the shot", defense, assists, and early impact as well as name recognition is awesome, but while Ticha had a title to trump her lack of offense, TSpoon unfortunately doesn't.



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BCBG25



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PostPosted: 04/27/06 4:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

You just can't leave Weatherspoon out. You. Just. Can't.
And she won't be left out. Bet the farm on that one.
I am with MT on every single pick.



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Alepp03



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PostPosted: 04/27/06 4:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

BCBG25 wrote:
You just can't leave Weatherspoon out. You. Just. Can't.
And she won't be left out. Bet the farm on that one.
I am with MT on every single pick.


No Claw?



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Alepp03



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PostPosted: 04/27/06 4:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

BTW, if ABL numbers don't count, Spoon leapfrogs Smith and Williams, but Smith stays on the list at the bottom, Williams drops out.



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CamrnCrz1974



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PostPosted: 04/27/06 4:34 pm    ::: Re: WNBA All-Decade Team Reply Reply with quote

MT_Swoopes wrote:
Ticha Penichiero*Cynthia Coooper*Sheryl Swoopes*Yolanda Griffith*Lisa Leslie

Teresa Weatherspoon*Katie Smith*Tina Thompson*Natalie Williams*Lauren Jackson


But no Holdsclaw? Top 4 in the history of the league in both scoring and rebounding?


BCBG25



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PostPosted: 04/27/06 4:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Alepp03 wrote:
BCBG25 wrote:
You just can't leave Weatherspoon out. You. Just. Can't.
And she won't be left out. Bet the farm on that one.
I am with MT on every single pick.


No Claw?


I overlooked Natalie Williams' name. Right on, Alepp. Coleslaw over Natalie. Sorry Charlie.



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eyevolley4



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PostPosted: 04/27/06 4:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I was gonna say, you better not overlook when I actually give big ups to the Claw! It doesn't happen often.


toad455



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PostPosted: 04/27/06 4:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Mine

Copper
Swoopes
Jackson
Griffith
Katie Smith
Thompson
Leslie
Taurasi
Weatherspoon
Staley

HONORABLE MENTION
McWilliams-Franklin
Catchings
Natalie Williams
Gillom
Penichiero

I picked Weatherspoon & Staley because they're well known names, As good as Catchings & Holdslcaw are, I don't think either deserve to be on the list. A tough decision overall. Whoever makes the final list well deserves it. Can you imagine the tough decision when the league reaches 50 and we'll have to chose the top 50 players of the past 50 years. YIKES!!


MT_Swoopes



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PostPosted: 04/27/06 6:17 pm    ::: Re: WNBA All-Decade Team Reply Reply with quote

CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
But no Holdsclaw? Top 4 in the history of the league in both scoring and rebounding?


That's true. It's tough for me, 'cause in her prime Natalie Williams has had the best in the world moments. Hell, she's the best defensive rebounder I've ever seen. I'm not against selecting Mique.


Happycappie25



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PostPosted: 04/27/06 6:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

only gripe is that lobo shouldnt be in the top 30...lobo??? she only played 2 years in effect...then was hurt 2 more and on the end of the bench for 2 more. the top 10 is fine Smile



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Keegan



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PostPosted: 04/27/06 6:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Trotting it out again

My 10th Anniversary All-WNBA team
suzy&dee103



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PostPosted: 04/27/06 6:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:

I agree with yours but NATALIE WILLIAMS?


Have you ever looked at he stats? Points, boards, blocks? She was one of the very few post players who could play a lick of defense and she could always seem to shut down Tina Thompson and Lisa Leslie on a regular basis. She would still be plaiing another 2-3 seasons if she didn't have all those acl injuries.



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timber



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PostPosted: 04/27/06 7:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

BCBG25 wrote:
You just can't leave Weatherspoon out. You. Just. Can't.
And she won't be left out. Bet the farm on that one.
I am with MT on every single pick.


Exclamation

Shouldn't even be a question. Ticha and Spoon make it over any other point guards on the list. It's the all-decade team. Move on and pick the next 8 players. I mean, come on...Spoon had the city on lock while she was here. That alone should be enough.

How can you not have the top 2 assist leaders on the list? Then look at rebounds (from the point guard position at that), steals, defense, minutes played, playoff performance and leadership and tell me you can seriously make a case for anyone above them.

Point guard is the easiest position on the list to pick.



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CamrnCrz1974



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PostPosted: 04/27/06 7:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Are we doing this by position? Or is it just the 10 best players? Katie Smith makes it over Ticha Penicheiro, hands down.


timber



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PostPosted: 04/27/06 7:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Even without going by positions, Ticha still makes my list.

My thing is, no point guard should make the all-decade team ahead of her or Spoon regardless. I'm not saying pick 2 at every position...just that those 2 are the only point guards I'd have on the all-decade team.

But if we could pick 12 instead of 10, I'd consider Dawn.



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CamrnCrz1974



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PostPosted: 04/27/06 7:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hmm...I wouldn't have two point guards on my list:

These 8 are my locks:
Cooper
Swoopes
Leslie
Jackson
Griffith
Thompson
Holdsclaw
Smith

Then I would have to consider Jen Gillom, Natalie Williams, and Nykesha Sales. Weatherspoon or Ticha? Hmm... I would have Teresa over Ticha, so that eliminates Penicheiro.


timber



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PostPosted: 04/27/06 7:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Well you know who I'd give it to. Laughing

Plus the Liberty never had Yo to lean on. And I know, we could have...don't go there. Hurts my heart.



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CamrnCrz1974



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PostPosted: 04/27/06 7:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

timber wrote:
Well you know who I'd give it to. Laughing

Plus the Liberty never had Yo to lean on. And I know, we could have...don't go there. Hurts my heart.


No, but you had VJ, Kym, and Sue early on...


timber



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PostPosted: 04/27/06 7:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
timber wrote:
Well you know who I'd give it to. Laughing

Plus the Liberty never had Yo to lean on. And I know, we could have...don't go there. Hurts my heart.


No, but you had VJ, Kym, and Sue early on...


As much as I love them, ain't none of 'em Yo. Not one.

Now had we been blessed with Spoon, Kym and Sue in their younger years to run with VJ, we'd have been set with a couple of rings and then we could make a comparison.



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mandih23



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PostPosted: 04/27/06 8:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

My picks in no order:

Swoopes
Leslie
Jackson
Griffith
Cooper
Thompson
Smith
Holdsclaw
Penicheiro
Sales

I tried to refrain from picking younger players because I think that in order to be on an All-Decade team a player should have played at least half of the decade, in my opinion, although I made an exception for Jackson because, well, because I'm not completely stupid!! Very Happy


ThreeBall25



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PostPosted: 04/27/06 8:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Where's the love for Sales? I haven't seen her mentioned that much besides Cam and whoever said she's been an All-Star basically forever... She is CONSISTENT.


mandih23



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PostPosted: 04/27/06 8:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ryan2528 wrote:
Where's the love for Sales? I haven't seen her mentioned that much besides Cam and whoever said she's been an All-Star basically forever... She is CONSISTENT.


I GOT HER!!!


CamrnCrz1974



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PostPosted: 04/27/06 8:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

timber wrote:
Now had we been blessed with Spoon, Kym and Sue in their younger years to run with VJ, we'd have been set with a couple of rings and then we could make a comparison.


Don't pull that age stuff with me. Laughing We had Timms and Gillom. Gillom wasn't called Grandmama for the cookies she was baking.


Samaria



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PostPosted: 04/27/06 8:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mandih23 wrote:


I tried to refrain from picking younger players because I think that in order to be on an All-Decade team a player should have played at least half of the decade, in my opinion, although I made an exception for Jackson because, well, because I'm not completely stupid!! Very Happy


I agree with that. And I especially don't like it when people count Taurasi in, she's played two years and while she's carried her team, hasn't carried them far enough to even the playoffs. Not to take anything away from Taurasi, great player, but she's one of the ones I just don't think should be on the team.



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mandih23



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PostPosted: 04/27/06 8:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

lilswin2003 wrote:
mandih23 wrote:


I tried to refrain from picking younger players because I think that in order to be on an All-Decade team a player should have played at least half of the decade, in my opinion, although I made an exception for Jackson because, well, because I'm not completely stupid!! Very Happy


I agree with that. And I especially don't like it when people count Taurasi in, she's played two years and while she's carried her team, hasn't carried them far enough to even the playoffs. Not to take anything away from Taurasi, great player, but she's one of the ones I just don't think should be on the team.


Right, although I am a fan of Taurasi, I think that she should not be on the All-Decade team, I can see her on the nominations of 30 but not on the actual team, not yet. Although even on the nominations I can think of others who I feel should have been there.


bballfan2005



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PostPosted: 04/27/06 10:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mandih23 wrote:
although I made an exception for Jackson because, well, because I'm not completely stupid!! Very Happy


I think LJ's played five seasons (2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005). That's half a decade right there! I'd say that she's more than qualified to be on that list. Wink



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mandih23



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PostPosted: 04/27/06 10:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

bballfan2005 wrote:
mandih23 wrote:
although I made an exception for Jackson because, well, because I'm not completely stupid!! Very Happy


I think LJ's played five seasons (2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005). That's half a decade right there! I'd say that she's more than qualified to be on that list. Wink


Ok,ok... maybe I am completely stupid- obviously I can't count!! lol Very Happy


suzy&dee103



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PostPosted: 04/27/06 11:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Anyone who votes for Bird & Taurasi needs to realize who started this league and why it's still around.

As for leaving Natalie Williams out, I'd take her over Holdsclaw just because Chamique isn't the all around player Nat was. Natalie was a dominant defensive post as well as a TEAM leader, not an individual "me, me, me" player like Mique'-depression problems or not.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 04/28/06 5:16 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

suzy&dee103 wrote:
Natalie was a dominant defensive post as well as a TEAM leader, not an individual "me, me, me" player like Mique'-depression problems or not.



That would explain why Williams's teams did so much better in the playoffs than The Claw's. Rolling Eyes



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barryi22



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PostPosted: 04/28/06 7:50 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

[quote="CamrnCrz1974"][quote="timber"]Now had we been blessed with Spoon, Kym and Sue in their younger years to run with VJ, we'd have been set with a couple of rings and then we could make a comparison.[/quote]

Don't pull that age stuff with me. :lol: We had Timms and Gillom. Gillom wasn't called Grandmama for the cookies she was baking.[/quote]



Didn't you also have Cheryl Miller and Nancy Lieberman for a season too?


PUmatty



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PostPosted: 04/28/06 7:56 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So here is a question:

Why is everyone so quick to include LJ over Catchings.

Over their careers, they have very similar scoring and rebounding numbers. LJ's team has had more success - two No. 1 draft picks and real coach will do that for you - but Catchings is much better at defense and has much better assist numbers.

Why is LJ rated so much higher than Catchings.


pilight



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PostPosted: 04/28/06 7:59 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
Why is LJ rated so much higher than Catchings.



She's got a ring and an MVP.



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PUmatty



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PostPosted: 04/28/06 8:02 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
Why is LJ rated so much higher than Catchings.



She's got a ring and an MVP.


And couldn't beat out Jackie Stiles for rookie of the year. So what?


pilight



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PostPosted: 04/28/06 8:08 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
pilight wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
Why is LJ rated so much higher than Catchings.



She's got a ring and an MVP.


And couldn't beat out Jackie Stiles for rookie of the year. So what?


Most people think MVP is a bigger deal than ROY.



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PUmatty



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PostPosted: 04/28/06 8:10 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
pilight wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
Why is LJ rated so much higher than Catchings.



She's got a ring and an MVP.


And couldn't beat out Jackie Stiles for rookie of the year. So what?


Most people think MVP is a bigger deal than ROY.


It's true, but it also points to consistency.

Like I have said earlier, this is a decade-long award, not a season award. Over the course of their careers, there is very little little difference in scoring (1 point) or rebounding (.1 rebound). Other facets of the game, there is a huge difference, but ones that pretty much even out.

Not saying LJ isn't deserving, but don't see her being obviously more deserving as plenty here are saying.


eyevolley4



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PostPosted: 04/28/06 9:17 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Catchings VS. Jackson

The new AB/DT debate??? Wink

In terms of totals, Lauren has scored more points, played in more seasons, has an MVP, a championship, a significantly higher field goal percentage, especially as of late, more blocks, and more general success.

Tamika has higher rebounds per game, more assists, more steals, a DPOY award, a ROY award, more turnovers, and more 3 pointers.

I mean, I think there's at very least a really strong case for Lauren being better than Tamika, and it is definitely one I am buying into. Jackson has had a better career over 5 years than Tamika.


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PostPosted: 04/28/06 10:39 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
pilight wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
pilight wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
Why is LJ rated so much higher than Catchings.



She's got a ring and an MVP.


And couldn't beat out Jackie Stiles for rookie of the year. So what?


Most people think MVP is a bigger deal than ROY.


It's true, but it also points to consistency.

Like I have said earlier, this is a decade-long award, not a season award. Over the course of their careers, there is very little little difference in scoring (1 point) or rebounding (.1 rebound). Other facets of the game, there is a huge difference, but ones that pretty much even out.

Not saying LJ isn't deserving, but don't see her being obviously more deserving as plenty here are saying.


LJ could have won the ROY, but she had a higher bar to leap coming in than did Stiles. Stiles was a college standout, but LJ was billed as the greatest player in the world...she was expected to come to the worst team in the league and make them a contender...not merely add 4 wins while averaging 15p/6r/2b per game. As far as consistency...what does winning the ROY have to do with consistency?


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PostPosted: 04/28/06 11:25 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
pilight wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
Why is LJ rated so much higher than Catchings.



She's got a ring and an MVP.


And couldn't beat out Jackie Stiles for rookie of the year. So what?


Catch and LJ lost out to Stiles. So, that is a push.

I love Catch too. I have since she played Robin to Mique's Batman during her freshman year at UT. I just think it's really hard to put her over a player who is the main reason her team won a WNBA championship and has virtually been an MVP or MVP runner-up almost every season she has been in the league. She only finished behind two women who go by the names of Leslie and Swoopes over the past two years.


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PostPosted: 04/28/06 11:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This is some of the players in the WNBA favorite choices...Pretty good company

http://www.wnba.com/history/players_alldecade06.html


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PostPosted: 04/28/06 11:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cometsdrivefor5 wrote:
This is some of the players in the WNBA favorite choices...Pretty good company

http://www.wnba.com/history/players_alldecade06.html


Becky! No T-SPoon???? Shocked What up with that?


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PostPosted: 04/28/06 11:50 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

dtsnms wrote:
cometsdrivefor5 wrote:
This is some of the players in the WNBA favorite choices...Pretty good company

http://www.wnba.com/history/players_alldecade06.html


Becky! No T-SPoon???? Shocked What up with that?


I know. She was pretty much on everyone else's list, but the consensus was clear. The big four and WNBA originals (Cooper, Leslie, Weatherspoon & Swoopes) are to be there. They left their mark over the last ten years (post and regular season).


CamrnCrz1974



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PostPosted: 04/28/06 12:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

barryi22 wrote:
Didn't you also have Cheryl Miller and Nancy Lieberman for a season too?


Cheryl was the coach. She wasn't playing.


ILuvCatch



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PostPosted: 04/28/06 12:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

MT_Swoopes wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
pilight wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
Why is LJ rated so much higher than Catchings.



She's got a ring and an MVP.


And couldn't beat out Jackie Stiles for rookie of the year. So what?


Catch and LJ lost out to Stiles. So, that is a push.

I love Catch too. I have since she played Robin to Mique's Batman during her freshman year at UT. I just think it's really hard to put her over a player who is the main reason her team won a WNBA championship and has virtually been an MVP or MVP runner-up almost every season she has been in the league. She only finished behind two women who go by the names of Leslie and Swoopes over the past two years.


Catch did not lose at to Stiles. She won ROY. She has been the main reason the Fever have won all the games they have. She has also virtually been an MVP or runner-up almost every season she has been been in the league. Seattle getting another #1 pick helped win their title.

Catch has done more to promote the league (on her own) than Jackson. Point, set and match to Tamika!



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MT_Swoopes



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PostPosted: 04/28/06 1:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ILuvCatch wrote:
Catch did not lose at to Stiles. She won ROY. She has been the main reason the Fever have won all the games they have. She has also virtually been an MVP or runner-up almost every season she has been been in the league. Seattle getting another #1 pick helped win their title.

Catch has done more to promote the league (on her own) than Jackson. Point, set and match to Tamika!


My fault. Tamika was injured during the year she was drafted. We'll just have to wait to see who's named to the team this summer. Then it will be point, set and match.


eyevolley4



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PostPosted: 04/28/06 2:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ILuvCatch wrote:
MT_Swoopes wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
pilight wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
Why is LJ rated so much higher than Catchings.



She's got a ring and an MVP.


And couldn't beat out Jackie Stiles for rookie of the year. So what?


Catch and LJ lost out to Stiles. So, that is a push.

I love Catch too. I have since she played Robin to Mique's Batman during her freshman year at UT. I just think it's really hard to put her over a player who is the main reason her team won a WNBA championship and has virtually been an MVP or MVP runner-up almost every season she has been in the league. She only finished behind two women who go by the names of Leslie and Swoopes over the past two years.


Catch did not lose at to Stiles. She won ROY. She has been the main reason the Fever have won all the games they have. She has also virtually been an MVP or runner-up almost every season she has been been in the league. Seattle getting another #1 pick helped win their title.

Catch has done more to promote the league (on her own) than Jackson. Point, set and match to Tamika!


Go get a championship and an MVP and keep the FG% over 40 and then maybe I'll think about jumping on board with you...

Catch's resume is awesome, Jackson's is better.


Slovydal



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PostPosted: 04/28/06 9:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

eyevolley4 wrote:

Go get a championship and an MVP and keep the FG% over 40 and then maybe I'll think about jumping on board with you...

Catch's resume is awesome, Jackson's is better.


From WNBA dot com re: All Decade Team consideration:

"Consideration for the team will be based on ability and on-court performance, leadership, sportsmanship and community service as well as contribution to team success and the growth of women's basketball."

Sorry Lauren.

Tamika is out of your league.

[/code][/quote]


suzy&dee103



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PostPosted: 04/28/06 11:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If they are basing some of the consideration on off court stuff, why let the fans vote on it? Like they would know of sportsmanship or stuff like that. Each fan would always be biased on their teams players being "holier than thou" on the court no matter who started what.



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mb1



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PostPosted: 04/29/06 1:56 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stayed out of this thread 'til today.

Bummer people must choose between LJ and Catch...and why must we degrade one to promote the other?

One of many criteria could be MVP winners, yet I haven't agreed with some of the winners.

Also, IMHO, Stiles was not the ROY the year she rec'd it.

Everyone knows I loathe LL, yet she makes my list (Keegan's rationale was spot on).

Keegan's list and Cam's list are close to whom I suspect I will choose, yet more time is required.

My memory is very short. Penichero and Katie Smith were always two of my favorite players, yet haven't impressed me lately.

Who is this T-Spoon player evryone speaks of? (Here it comes!) Wink Twisted Evil

Gillom brings mixed emotions.

DT...too new????

Slovy wrote:
Quote:
eyevolley4 wrote:
Quote:
Go get a championship and an MVP and keep the FG% over 40 and then maybe I'll think about jumping on board with you...

Catch's resume is awesome, Jackson's is better.



From WNBA dot com re: All Decade Team consideration:

"Consideration for the team will be based on ability and on-court performance, leadership, sportsmanship and community service as well as contribution to team success and the growth of women's basketball."

Sorry Lauren.

Tamika is out of your league.


Gotta love them both...and suspect Slovy gives Catch the edge on sportsmanship and growth of women's basketball; as they both have ability performance and leadership.

Well, while Catch may do more locally, LJ has done much for the game internationally.

If sportsmanship is truly a criteria, then Lisa Leslie is off the list.
She throws malicious elbows and complains against EVERY single call.

Much more later...


suzy&dee103



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PostPosted: 04/29/06 2:20 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
If sportsmanship is truly a criteria, then Lisa Leslie is off the list.
She throws malicious elbows and complains against EVERY single call.


I don't think Lisa Leslie is the only player who has done this. I can think of many, in fact the worst is here in Seattle #15. Come sit courtside and watch how bad she is. She makes Lisa look like an angel!



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sambista



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PostPosted: 04/29/06 11:19 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

i voted for the first time last night, and i gotta say that when you finally do it - pick just 10 players - it's impossible not to leave out someone most worthy.

the only player i really, REALLY have a problem with being on that list of 30 is tamecka dixon. and there are many more players i think deserve to be considered. (how many players overall, since 1997? i'm sure pilight knows. and would 50 be too many - would that be a problem, if the voting still comes down to just 10?)

it's really, really tough voting. and i'm beginning to agree (who was it - queenie?) that perhaps this list should've had only players who had at least five years' impact on the league. the newer players will have their time. if you waived the five-year rule, the player would have to be amazingly phenomenal. we're talking about a sheryl swoopes coming in just last year or something. who would that be?

anyway, on another note, i just love this photo. too bad it would never have been captured during houston's glory years. i'm pretty sure this was shot at a preseason game against the liberty in the garden, a coupla years ago. i remember sitting right across from them and pointing out to my seatmates that the two of these guys were actually joking with each other. who'da thunk it - two aries women not having a bette davis-joan crawford moment.




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ChiChi



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PostPosted: 04/29/06 11:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sebibb wrote:
i voted for the first time last night, and i gotta say that when you finally do it - pick just 10 players - it's impossible not to leave out someone most worthy.

I wanted to vote, but when it came down to it, I was in the dark about too many players to do it. I can read their stats and awards but I think you never really know unless you saw them.

sebibb wrote:
the only player i really, REALLY have a problem with being on that list of 30 is tamecka dixon. and there are many more players i think deserve to be considered.

Who do you think would best replace Dixon?


jimmyk



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PostPosted: 04/29/06 11:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Yeah, I wanted to vote, too, but I haven't been around long enough. It would end up being my favorites over the past four years, essentially, which wouldn't be right. So I'll defer to the more experienced ones this time.


sambista



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PostPosted: 04/29/06 11:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ChiChi wrote:
Who do you think would best replace Dixon?


http://boards.rebkell.net/viewtopic.php?t=13921&start=33



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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 04/29/06 11:39 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sebibb wrote:
i voted for the first time last night, and i gotta say that when you finally do it - pick just 10 players - it's impossible not to leave out someone most worthy.

the only player i really, REALLY have a problem with being on that list of 30 is tamecka dixon. and there are many more players i think deserve to be considered. (how many players overall, since 1997? i'm sure pilight knows. and would 50 be too many - would that be a problem, if the voting still comes down to just 10?)

it's really, really tough voting. and i'm beginning to agree (who was it - queenie?) that perhaps this list should've had only players who had at least five years' impact on the league. the newer players will have their time. if you waived the five-year rule, the player would have to be amazingly phenomenal. we're talking about a sheryl swoopes coming in just last year or something. who would that be?

anyway, on another note, i just love this photo. too bad it would never have been captured during houston's glory years. i'm pretty sure this was shot at a preseason game against the liberty in the garden, a coupla years ago. i remember sitting right across from them and pointing out to my seatmates that the two of these guys were actually joking with each other. who'da thunk it - two aries women not having a bette davis-joan crawford moment.



I like that shot, too. Two observations from the guy who made his bones on the topic of the Cooper/Swoopes rivalry. One is how completely quashed it is, at this point, as a historical topic of interest or discussion. I think, honestly, that something has been lost in the failure to fully and honestly tell this story. The whole like it never happened atmosphere. The it was all blown out of proportion bullshit. The complete lack of juicy details. True feelings.

Beyond the absence of just an honest telling of what was a fascinating conflict and drama, why it is a more substantial loss, is because (and this is the second observation) of the incredibly succesful resolution of that drama. That these two were able to overcome their personal conflicts and what they were able to achieve because of that. They overcame their interpersonal dramas on the court and were rewarded on the court for that professionalism. Oh yeah. That's all great. But it's over now, they're no longer teamates, and I contend they will have overcome it a little too well if the story never gets told.



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PUmatty



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PostPosted: 04/29/06 11:43 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sebibb wrote:

the only player i really, REALLY have a problem with being on that list of 30 is tamecka dixon. and there are many more players i think deserve to be considered. (how many players overall, since 1997? i'm sure pilight knows. and would 50 be too many - would that be a problem, if the voting still comes down to just 10?)


I am not sure why people have a problem with Dixon on the list. A very important part of two championship teams. A gold medal at the Olympics. A 10-year veteran.

She is clearly not going to be on the 10-member team, but how has she accomplished less than say Lobo, either Johnson, Taurasi, and a few others?


eyevolley4



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PostPosted: 04/29/06 12:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I concur Matty. Lobo is one of the more interesting people to think about here.

While it can be argued that Lobo and DT, for name value alone, have more value to the league over fewer years than Dixon, I think that's an inconsiderate slight to what she has accomplished on the court.

Her first year in, she's a starter, and she puts up strong, strong numbers. Sure she has tailed off some, but she's not the first, and she could likely rebound minus injuries and LA drama. She has very good career numbers, and while many find her unlikable, I think you may see a different player now that she is no longer in LaLa land.

I am a proponent of Dixon being on this list. I can't argue with any of the seven who have been around from day 1.

And finally, if no Dixon, then why Mabika?


sambista



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PostPosted: 04/29/06 1:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

i've already confessed to an "intangibles" bias, if you will. dixon has been a good player - not great, but certainly better than average. but combining all the things (my own personal variables) that make someone worthy of being remembered for this particular honor, dixon don't make my list, if i can have only 30. then there are some who don't meet even all my variables but who must be acknowledged. like mabika. she was far more likeable earlier in her career. but the girl, by far, has had one of the most amazing games to be displayed in this league. i don't think anyone can deny that. i don't care what she has or has not been named to or what her numbers have been (tho i'm sure they're significant). the girl has moves that have not been copied. lobo gets in largely for intangibles that have nothing to do with game. but when you look back at the first 10 years, you have to acknowledge one of the three players on whom the league's hopes were initially pinned (swoopes and leslie being the other two, right?). and just about every kid and their dollies had a lobo jersey. ultimately, some of the non-performance intangibles will count, because the vote is in the public's hands, not unlike the all stars who were or were not worthy. not really meaning to trash her, but dixon is in a middle ground, imo - not wildly talented, not a key historical figure, not hugely popular, not excelling in any category that i can think of . . . in other words, there are a lot of dixons in the league.

all of this, of course, is a frustration that boils down to the fact that we're not happy with a nominations list of just 30 players. that's a wonderful predicament! for the league, anyway.

on some level, i would have wanted the players who are indelible faces of the wnba but who were unsung workhorses. two come to mind: wendy palmer and murriel page. (page, without whom the mystics would've sucked even more than they did all those years. but her work ethic was unmatched.)



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sgbur22



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PostPosted: 04/29/06 2:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

did anyone else notice that vicky bulllet was on the top 30 list on ESPN.com instead of Lobo? And vice versa on WNBA.com....


pilight



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PostPosted: 04/29/06 2:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

10 is hard.

I got to 8 pretty easily. Cooper, Swoopes, Griffith, Jackson, Leslie, Thompson, Holdsclaw, and Weatherspoon.

Then it gets tough.

Do I need a Shock? They're the only championship team not represented. Cash seems like the obvious choice from that team, but she's only played four years and was hurt for most of one of them. Nolan is a possibility too I guess, although dtsnms would have a fit.

If winning championships is the most important thing, can I leave out Arcain and her four rings? What about Dixon, Mabika, and Milton with two each?

How much do numbers count? I have Holdsclaw, should I also include some other players with limited playoff success and slightly less impressive stats like Katie Smith, Tamika Catchings, or Natalie Williams?

What about players with a little more playoff success but even lesser numbers, like Nykesha Sales, Vickie Johnson, or Jen Gillom?

Should old players get more recognition? Five of the first eight played in the first season. Does it matter that Ruthie Bolton was the league's All Time leading scorer for six days in 1997?

What about Lobo? Do her off court contributions outweigh her injury marred on court career?

Should I be thinking about positions? There are only two guards in the first eight. Should I be looking at Penicheiro or Staley or Stinson or PeeWee or even Bird or Taurasi?

Do I need to worry about East/West balance? Six of my first eight played exclusively for west teams, the other two played for both east and west. Someone quintessentially eastern like Hammon or McWilliams-Franklin might serve to equalize the team a bit.



I'm taking Bolton and Smith as the last two.



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PUmatty



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PostPosted: 04/29/06 2:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I didn't have much trouble getting to 11: Cooper, Swoopes, Thompson, Leslie, Jackson, Catchings, Sales, Penechiero, Griffith, Weatherspoon, and Williams.

Cutting one more is very tough for me.

As an aside, I wholly acknowledge that personal dislike is keeping Holdsclaw off my list. It's my list and my votes, and I am OK with that.


suzy&dee103



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PostPosted: 04/29/06 3:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
I am not sure why people have a problem with Dixon on the list. A very important part of two championship teams. A gold medal at the Olympics. A 10-year veteran.


Dixon was a part of the JUNIOR olympic women's team, not the Senior Team that has won all the gold medals. Sure, a gold medal is a gold medal, but it's not the same in a lot of peolples eyes. Taurasi & Bird even stated winning gold 2 years ago was much more of an accomplishment than the ones they won as juniors.

Dixon shouldn't be on the list, period. I would pick Bolton over her any day.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 04/29/06 3:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Dixon was on the 2002 World Championships Team.



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suzy&dee103



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PostPosted: 04/29/06 4:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Dixon was on the 2002 World Championships Team.


Like I said before, WC isn't Olympics.



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"If I'm playing confidently, there's really, in my eyes... nothing I can't do. So I think if anything, for me, in the game of basketball, it's me versus the game."
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mysticsfan07



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PostPosted: 04/29/06 4:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

My Picks: (no particular order)

Cynthia Cooper

Yolanda Griffith

Lauren Jackson

Lisa Leslie

Ticha Penicheiro

Katie Smith

Andrea Stinson

Sheryl Swoopes

Tina Thompson

Natalie Williams


pilight



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PostPosted: 04/29/06 5:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm at a loss as to how someone can justify putting Katie Smith ahead of Chamique Holdsclaw. Claw leads Smith in pretty much every statistical category that doesn't involve shooting threes, including scoring and assists. Claw has played in more than twice as many playoff games as Smith and Claw has actually played for a team that got out of the first round, which Smith has not.



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BCBG25



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PostPosted: 04/29/06 5:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

People here don't like Holdsclaw for one reason or another that they can overlook what she's done individually and yet justify selecting someone else for the exact same reasons. Go figure. It can't be basketball-related.
I have a feeling the final list selected by *us* fans, and I use the term loosely, will have a couple of fuck-ups.
Back to the Mavs game.



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eyevolley4



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PostPosted: 04/29/06 6:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm not a fan of Claw, but she is surely on the list. She's been too consistently good over a long period of time to not be on it.


suzy&dee103



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PostPosted: 04/29/06 6:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
I'm at a loss as to how someone can justify putting Katie Smith ahead of Chamique Holdsclaw. Claw leads Smith in pretty much every statistical category that doesn't involve shooting threes, including scoring and assists. Claw has played in more than twice as many playoff games as Smith and Claw has actually played for a team that got out of the first round, which Smith has not.


Smith has more wins, total. Although the 2 play different positions, I'd give Katie the edge over Claw. So what if Claws team made it past the first round of the playoffs? You know how many losses the mystics had with her on that team?



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suzy&dee103



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PostPosted: 04/29/06 6:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Career stats to back up my comments on Katie Smith VS Chamique Holdsclaw.

SMITH-218 GPlayed-41%FG, 37%3pt, 86%FT, 3.2RPG, 2.4APG, 0.9SPG, 0.2BPG, 2.2TOPG, 2.8PFPG, 17.1 PPG, 3,729 career points(3rd all time in wnba history and she was also the fastest to score 3,000 points).

HOLDSCLAW-195 GPlayed, 44%FG, 26%3PT, 70%FT, 8.6RPG, 2.6APG, 1.3SPG, 0.6BPG, 2.9TOPG, 2.4PFPG, 18.1 PPG, 3,521 career points.



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"If I'm playing confidently, there's really, in my eyes... nothing I can't do. So I think if anything, for me, in the game of basketball, it's me versus the game."
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